Flash
vs
Team: Quasar, Hyperion, Gladiator, Blue Marvel
Rules
- Flash is Wally West
- Marvel are standard/classic versions
- No BFR
- Fight on Earth
Flash
vs
Team: Quasar, Hyperion, Gladiator, Blue Marvel
Rules
@reaverlation: @tvc-15: @thekinfing: Ok I gave the team another member to help them out.
If in character, Wally might win
Morals off, Wally destroys them
If in character, Wally might win
Morals off, Wally destroys them
Damn what a team.
I'm sure that wally would get rek'd if this happened in comic, but in a battle forum fight, I'm not sure.
@willpayton: What about Morals?
@willpayton: What about Morals?
Everyone in character, morals on.
@willpayton: What about Morals?
Everyone in character, morals on.
Then the team wins.
Morals off, Wally would win.
@willpayton: Give him speed steal or give him a partner.
@willpayton: Give him speed steal or give him a partner.
Ok, his speed steal is no longer prohibited.
Wally loses in character. Honestly I think Wally would lose even with speed steal.
How? Wally crippled AMazo who had the powers of himself, Firestorm, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom and Superman.. He could easily incapacitate them via stealing speed from their neurons Etc.
@willpayton: Give him speed steal or give him a partner.
Ok, his speed steal is no longer prohibited.
then he Wins handily. Just take away the speedsteal but make both sides morals off and give the team confidence. Limit Wally to no phasing or speed stealing.
Should I give Wally back his speed steal for this battle to make it fairer?
I think it would help a lot. It is a hax ability but IIRC I remember in flash (either 209 or 210 I think? It was Geoff Johns run IIRC) Wally said he wouldn't steal superman's speed because it would cause a lot of destruction due to the speed they were moving at in combination with supermans muscles. I know Jay has stolen supermans speed while he was in motion, so I don't know if that is a thing consistently, but I am assuming there is at least a risk if Wally uses speed steal against superman-lite characters. So it might not be easy to use speed steal if the team gets moving. Unless can end this fight before they get a chance to move....
I could be wrong but if my understanding is correct speed steal might be difficult to pull off.
Wally loses in character. Honestly I think Wally would lose even with speed steal.
How? Wally crippled AMazo who had the powers of himself, Firestorm, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom and Superman.. He could easily incapacitate them via stealing speed from their neurons Etc.
IIRC when Wally did that Amazo was standing still and holding Wally. I think its as I said above. I am not sure if Wally would use speed steal against the team in character because there are potential risks to my understanding:
I think it would help a lot. It is a hax ability but IIRC I remember in flash (either 209 or 210 I think? It was Geoff Johns run IIRC) Wally said he wouldn't steal superman's speed because it would cause a lot of destruction due to the speed they were moving at in combination with supermans muscles. I know Jay has stolen supermans speed while he was in motion, so I don't know if that is a thing consistently, but I am assuming there is at least a risk if Wally uses speed steal against superman-lite characters. So it might not be easy to use speed steal if the team gets moving. Unless can end this fight before they get a chance to move....
I could be wrong but if my understanding is correct speed steal might be difficult to pull off.
Wally loses in character. Honestly I think Wally would lose even with speed steal.
How? Wally crippled AMazo who had the powers of himself, Firestorm, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom and Superman.. He could easily incapacitate them via stealing speed from their neurons Etc.
IIRC when Wally did that Amazo was standing still and holding Wally. I think its as I said above. I am not sure if Wally would use speed steal against the team in character because there are potential risks to my understanding:
I think it would help a lot. It is a hax ability but IIRC I remember in flash (either 209 or 210 I think? It was Geoff Johns run IIRC) Wally said he wouldn't steal superman's speed because it would cause a lot of destruction due to the speed they were moving at in combination with supermans muscles. I know Jay has stolen supermans speed while he was in motion, so I don't know if that is a thing consistently, but I am assuming there is at least a risk if Wally uses speed steal against superman-lite characters. So it might not be easy to use speed steal if the team gets moving. Unless can end this fight before they get a chance to move....
I could be wrong but if my understanding is correct speed steal might be difficult to pull off.
he used it as a last resort. He's stolen speed from bullets in motion, entire planets, subatomic particles, magic empowered beings (Cheetah) and his reactions feats place him well above all of them to the point that they would be standing still. Incidentally, I agree that he would want to avoid collateral damage and wouldn't want to permanently harm them. In that case he could do what he did to Inertia, freezing him into place unable to function at all for what he did to Bart. That could be an option as well
he used it as a last resort. He's stolen speed from bullets in motion, entire planets, subatomic particles, magic empowered beings (Cheetah) and his reactions feats place him well above all of them to the point that they would be standing still. Incidentally, I agree that he would want to avoid collateral damage and wouldn't want to permanently harm them. In that case he could do what he did to Inertia, freezing him into place unable to function at all for what he did to Bart. That could be an option as well
Well keep in mind my argument is that Wally can steal there speed but he probably wont if they start moving. Here is the scan I was talking about (it was flash 209):
Now Wally says he could but in doing so he would cause a lot of distraction from where they were all the way to Moscow. So I don't think most of your examples don't really address the issue. I know Jay has stolen superman's speed without causing so much destruction but reading the issue it looks like he never stole all of supermans speed so maybe that is why he never caused this level of destruction, because superman wasn't brought to a complete stop?:
Now I don't think Wally stealing bullets, planets, and all that stuff really applies here. On the subject of Cheetah am not an expert on her. I believe she once beat wonder woman in a tug of war but I've seen people argue over the validity of that feat. All though even assuming Cheetah is as strong as wonder woman she was lying completely still when Wally stole her speed:
As for inertia he doesn't really have the strength of superman, and Wally was also lifting him off the ground and carrying him while he beat him so he wasn't running either when Wally stole his speed.
I understand. My point was the object or character can be in motion without involving collateral damage. Also Inertia was also faster than the characters here and Wallys acuity with the speed steal is easily more adept thanks to fusing with Walter West and the methods he used.
Strength and powerlevel are irrelevant when it comes to the speedsteal. Lol and I can literally post a scan of Wally grabbing a being, who made of pure energy, out of a black hole while moving at light speed. Weight, strength and force are really factors if Wally is being serious.
Also, not that you mentioned it but Wally doesn't need to physically touch the object or character to steal it's speed. Nor do they need to be stationary, in fact most of the time he's using the speedsteal on things in constant motion.
I understand. My point was the object or character can be in motion without involving collateral damage.
I'm confused with what your saying here? My whole point is that Wally needs to gradually slow them down in order to steal there speed and he can't just steal there speed all at once without causing collateral damage.
Also Inertia was also faster than the characters here and Wallys acuity with the speed steal is easily more adept thanks to fusing with Walter West and the methods he used.
The issue here isn't just speed and as I said Wally was physically carrying Inertia off the ground when he stole his speed.
Strength and powerlevel are irrelevant when it comes to the speedsteal. Lol and I can literally post a scan of Wally grabbing a being, who made of pure energy, out of a black hole while moving at light speed. Weight, strength and force are really factors if Wally is being serious.
Your referring to flash volume 2 issue 137? Wally was in space when he did this so there was no fear of collateral damage and he didn't speed steal, he lended his speed to Krakkl so Krakkl could escape the black hole.
Also, not that you mentioned it but Wally doesn't need to physically touch the object or character to steal it's speed. Nor do they need to be stationary, in fact most of the time he's using the speedsteal on things in constant motion.
I know.
In Character I'm not sure but everyone Bloodlusted..., Wally loses. And he is overrated as hell of course
1) my point is he wouldn't need to gradually do anything. We're not using CIS or WIS here. There is no reason for him to take the battle seriously yet allow them to hurt someone. They aren't fast enough to blink, let alone move. So unless they start before him then he wouldn't have damage to concern himself with
2) sort of follows ^
3) yep, but my point isn't the damage done. It is that Wallys abilities allow him to operate by different rules like grabbing massless objects, overpowering black holes and doing so faster than light. All in an instant, even by comic standards that's a bit overpowered when given the speedsteal. Morals on, he's just going to go to that much faster to avoid a fight.
Also I don't believe Wally knew the speedsteal yet by that arc, iirc.
Team gostomps.
A single strike of anyone will end Flash's life.
One character on the team will be an hard fight with little chance to win for the Flash.
The complete team is a nightmare for him.
1) my point is he wouldn't need to gradually do anything. We're not using CIS or WIS here. There is no reason for him to take the battle seriously yet allow them to hurt someone. They aren't fast enough to blink, let alone move. So unless they start before him then he wouldn't have damage to concern himself with
The thing is I am not sure if Wally would open up with those speeds. The faster he moves the harder he hits. He doesn't know anything about the people he is fighting. He could blitz them before the fight begins but I don't think he would in character.
3) yep, but my point isn't the damage done. It is that Wallys abilities allow him to operate by different rules like grabbing massless objects, overpowering black holes and doing so faster than light. All in an instant, even by comic standards that's a bit overpowered when given the speedsteal. Morals on, he's just going to go to that much faster to avoid a fight.
Well yea Flash has one of the wackiest power sets of all time. No denying that. I don't know if Wally will open up a fight by charging at random people at speeds greater than light or anything like that.
Also I don't believe Wally knew the speedsteal yet by that arc, iirc.
Yea I was confused with your point.
@krleavenger: Wally bloodlusted wins.
A single strike of anyone will end Flash's life.
What?? I dont think you know how good Flash's durability is. He's taken direct hits from Superman-level beings without harm.
@reaverlation: Can I ask, what did you expect with my reply? Me who agrees with you, me who argues with you or asking questions? Because I'm just gonna say no thanks.
@jashro44: fair enough I understand your point.
Also in case you're interested it would seem Walter Wests first appearance was in Flash #150 and Wally learned how to speedsteal/lend when they merged in the Dark Flash Saga.
@jashro44: fair enough I understand your point.
Also in case you're interested it would seem Walter Wests first appearance was in Flash #150 and Wally learned how to speedsteal/lend when they merged in the Dark Flash Saga.
I see.
@willpayton: wally definitely takes it, as of chain lightning his durability was insane
I don't see how wally takes this. These are all superman level characters. the real superman has no problem with reacting to wally. These guys should not either.
If in character, Wally might win
Morals off, Wally destroys them
The Scarlett speedster disgustingly curbstomps those fools up oblivion , easily , quickly , and concisely.
@llehdevil: wally as of chainlightning, survived half of himself being outside reality, and tanked the antimatter wave while depowered, whats quasar doing vs that?
I don't see how wally takes this. These are all superman level characters. the real superman has no problem with reacting to wally. These guys should not either.
wally moves faster than supes can percieve, punches way way way harder than supes, has tanked way more than supes in his prime, has vortexes which are way more powerful than any of supes energy attacks, has speed steal, can speed force bfr, and can throw objects at lightspeed.
Wally outclases supes in every single relevant way
@llehdevil: wally as of chainlightning, survived half of himself being outside reality, and tanked the antimatter wave while depowered, whats quasar doing vs that?
Sounds like a lot of CIS/WIS, no offense.
A single strike of anyone will end Flash's life.
What?? I dont think you know how good Flash's durability is. He's taken direct hits from Superman-level beings without harm.
That's a stretch. He's less durable than anyone here.
@llehdevil: the problem with calling it cis/wis is feats of that level happened numerous time in the same group of story arcs which logically takes place during the end of wally's career. Wally at the very end of his career is consistently doing things like
-stopping entropy with his vortex
-running around time/space
-tanking a universe busting antimatter wave while depowered
-stopping the antimonitor's cannon with an a vortex
-surviving half of himself being outside of reality
-amping the 50 strongest pc heroes from being completely unable to scratch the antimonitor's armor to putting a hole in it via lend speed
-completely outclassing the massively amped 50 strongest pre crisis heroes with his punches
-surviving a blast from the antimonitor
-surviving being outside of time
-outrunning the big bang
These aren't random showings that occasionally occur, this is wally opreating consistently at that level over his last couple of story arcs, and unlike say pc supes where the gap in power is illogical in universe(as sa supes should have gotten more powerful as time went on), wally becoming more powerful towards the end of his run makes sense. These can't be dismissed as outliers
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