Flash and Arrow vs Avengers

Yeah she didn't use the stone though she TP'd them under own power. It was when Ultron went to get Vibrainium from Klaw and the Avengers showed up.

@uugieboogie: ikr? XD

When the logic, on Comicvine, is presented for Flash people respond as acrimoniously as you have while feigning joviality.

Well done, little light.

Pshh "Speed Steal, Infinite IMPs, SF Dump GG"

Since it's confirmed CW Flash is powered by the Speed Force soon we'll be seeing the same argument for him as well lol

@jodema: Yeah i've been on this site long enough to know a few of the ropes XD

@uugieboogie:lol XD yep

@killerwasp: But not long enough to understand the validity of many of the ropes you're recriminating.

to be fair he did use a version of the imp on the show... It wasn't near his comic book counterpart tho..

Why the 'f' are Malcom and Arrow even here?

Also, putting prep in the battle makes it kinda ridiculous. In a world where you have people creating new elements, and particles and stuff, the ideas we can come up with are endless.

@jodema: Long enough to know what I'm doing and honestly care little what others state this site is a big wheel spinning in never ending arguing which is the whole point lol

@killerwasp: In a section dedicated to disputatious discourse don't you think you invalidate yourself by saying you "care little what other people state"?

@jodema: Nope, read people's points and statements, I care little enough to respond to them, thus providing the little care I need before rambling on about nonsense. huehue

@killerwasp: And yet your responses have been as fluent as can be, even without responding to me.

By the way, I think Avengers win.

It wasn't even impressive though. The one time he actually connected with his "Super Sonic Punch" he nearly Ko'd himself. He also needs a straight path of 5.3 miles IIRC to build up the speed to do it. Grade countered it by grabbing his fist and swinging him around.

@jodema: Yeah, its a talent only pros can achieve it XD.

Also good good! Now explain! har har

Ha I never said it was impressive,, just that it has been shown..lol

@newecho: Oh yeah.. And I forgot Hawkeye already has countermeasures for TP

@killerwasp: Barry and the Reverse Flash don't have the speed to counter the power of the Avengers. Captain America should be able to handle Arrow. Thor can handle the speedsters. The rest of the team qualify as reinforcements.

You do realize Wasp was only joking from the beginning right?

Of course I do. Wasp literally just explained that to me.

Just wanted to be sure lol. Too early in the day for rustled jimmies.

Ah kk just curious and stuff, What about MoS Supes?

R1 I'd say avenger idk how there beating thor and hulk

R2 I'd say CW cos man of steel could easily beat the hole avengers tam but thor.

That tips the scales. Thor loses.

hulk isn't involved in the fight.... How does Man Of Steel beat a team that can prep for him and has thor on it?

How does MOS beat thor? I think he is the wild card but he really doesn't have any feats that thor can't handle and thor has the superior striking and durability feats..

Flash team both rounds. Thawne and Flash on the same team? yeah....

Flash and thawne could only be a nuisance at hitting.. They aren't op like people believe they are in the comics...

He seemed to stalemate with Iron Man and I believe that MoS Superman trumps Iron Man. Throughout the entire movie MoS admittedly restricted his fighting ability and was unintentionally depredating a town and a city.

@jodema: ah kk just curious XD

@jodema: he wasn't fighting iron man hard and heone shotted the destroyer. He also has the city destroying feat(debatable)

@newecho: What evidence can you provide to prove that he wasn't fighting Iron Man "hard"? What veracious comparisons would you make between MoS Superman and the Destroyer? What large scale city did he cause significant damage to?

@jodema: have you seen age of ultron? He basically told metal man that he wasn't. That's when he went for the knock out blow and cap's shield took it and knocked all those trees down

@jodema: i misread about hulk my bad. Still he has a massive speed advantage i see thor beating him to be honest but without thor the rest of team MCU are sitting ducks for RF and Flash. Quicksilver ain't fighting both of them and grodd would be on counter TP and weather master could take IM or WM by feats. I think with Superman distracting thor and and nearly beating thor the team is quite screwed. By the time thor gets back he'll be to weak to beat zoom.

He crushed Iron Man's gauntlets just casually closing his hands, he dented his helmet just by head butting him and physically overpowered him more than once. Thor had no damage from any of Iron Man's attacks.

It should be noted Iron Man suits have tanked missiles without even a dent or a scratch. It should also be noted that Iron is capable of lifting helicopters, tanks and jets. And he was physically overpowered by Thor.

By feats both Iron Man and WM could one-shot WW. And is Grodd's TP as strong as Wandas? And Hawkeye has Anti TP arrows.

@newecho: I would have to disagree, if you watched season 1 Flash was moving insanely fast when he changed time and Thawne you can't even see at all...I don't see anyone on Marvel tagging them, they could just vibrate and turn their hearts into mush.

Sure compared to the comics nobody here is as powerful as their comic versions from both teams...but they're not being used here.

Round 1: Avengers, maybe.

Round 2: DC Team

Interesting point.

Does this then mean that MoS Superman is outclassed by Thor? Even against other Kryptonians Superman still held back and defeated them. 3 of them. 1 of which has much more indelible experience in combat and martial tact.

@chazz85: what? Weather wizard can't take iron man or sw due to feats. Heck Wanda could just control him . there is no such thing as counter tp for grodd either. Wanda also has chaos magic which is different than tp. We also have no real clue how powerful grodds tp is. BTW the avengers have the mind gem which is above anything grodd can do.

@seido: when did they vibrate molecules?. Everything you said minus that is exactly what I said. They would just be a nuisance. Oh wait thawne did it to Cisco in episode that never actually happened. Hmm I forgot about that feat. They still couldn't tag Thor while he is in air tho.

newecho: Actually it did happen original timeline but Flash changed it due to the time changing feat, and even before that some things still didn't change like when Thawne vibrated through Iris's editor's/boss's chest? Don't remember that?

Flash only changed one day, he didn't change events prior to that what feats he and Thawne had up to that point...

They could easily tag Thor, Thor is slow as hell compared to them lol

Two of the Kryptonians couldn't access all of their powers and he didn't technically beat Nam and Faora. He exploited her weakness and they did KO him prior to that. Faora demonstrated the entire time that she was superior to him IMO. When they were going just H2H she had the upper hand and he beat her by destroying her mask. Is there proof that he held back against them or is it speculated? In one of the MCU tie in comics is show how Thor got to earth in the first Avengers with the bifrost being destroyed. Odin had to use dark energy which was harmful to both him and Thor and could've killed them both. Thor was Ko'd when he landed on earth from it and when he came to is when we see him flying to the Quinjet to get Loki. I said that was evidence that he was weakened when he fought Iron Man yet I was told that was a speculation.

He is slow compared to them but they don't have the damage output to harm him. Thor can at least tag Barry seeing how he gets tagged on a regular by slower characters. Neither Barry or Thane have a resistance to Wanda's TP. They both are virtually useless when most of the team can avoid via flight or shrinking.

Wasn't there context behind his time changing feat?

Team 2 both rounds. During the first round, Captain America, Ant man, Scarlett Witch, Black Widow and Hawkeye get taken out by the speedsters in the first second. Quicksilver lasts for a few more second bu the flashes are too fast even for him. Then the whole team crushes Thor together. Second round the same thing happens except supes has to rip apart war machine, iron man and falcon, which will be really easy for him by speed blitz

They can use other methods though via their powers. Like vibrating through Thor's head or heart. He hasn't showed protection from an intangibility attack of that kind. Barry got tagged in earlier shows and with PIS but when he's not messing around you see how fast he can be and even Thawne admitted this who is clearly faster than Barry(at this point in time) later on they seem on par with each other. Grodd can counter Wanda's TP with his own. Remember we're going by movie and tv versions here, Wanda isn't nearly as powerful as she is in the comics on film either.

Well, he changed time by accident not realizing how fast he was going...but he still did the feat regardless.

During the fight she explicitly told him that because of his sense of morality she is superior to him. Only for that reason was he bested during the fights. Throughout a majority of the fight he was fighting them simultaneously.

If the evidence proposed for Thor's alleged weakness is more than just speculation that would be impressive but unless proven it's only the former.

When have they vibrated through someone or something as durable as Thor? And it should be noted in AoS it was stated Asgairdans can survive a bit with organ failure. The Asgardian heart stopped and was stabbed. Coulson put his hand on his heart and kept it pumping for a few minutes while he regenerated. No Barry has been consistently tagged by slower characters and throughout the series not just in the earlier shows. Its common knowledge that he would;t have even made it through the series if not for Cait, Cisco and Thawne helping him. They were not par with each other if they were Barry wouldn't have needed other people. Barry also is also almost ineffective in a combat stand point he has no combat prowess at all.

What makes you think Grodd's TP is strong enough to counter Wanda's? I have never used a non MCU feat at all i this thread. Wanda TP'd multiple at once making them leave the city in the final battle of AoU. She isn't as powerful as her 616 counterpart but she's TP'd multiple people at once and her TK was strong enough to bend Vibrainium.

You make it seem like he just ran and changed time. He had to build up that speed right? And when has he EVER used that kind of sped in combat?

@seido: they have prep. Ones that can fly will be in the air. Sw could control Barry and have him fight thawne. They also have the mind stone their position of a new avenger.

@newecho: True, but both teams have prep too, DC team also has Superman remember too in the second round so he can deal with the fliers that and Flash can create a wind funnel against fliers like he did in one episode the same one Thawne did it to Firestorm putting him blocks away doing it.

@uugieboogie: Thor is not invulnerable, and if I recall correctly he got beat up a bit in the second film and first film was KOed when hit by a car in a hospital. He did have to build up speed, yes but let's be real when he's building up speed NOBODY on Marvel team is nearly fast enough to see him much less tag him. QS is their best shot and he's no where near Flash or Thawne level...

For combat, yes Thawne did against Barry til Eddie shot himself being a distant previous relative it stopped Thawne but was about to vibrate through barry before that....

If you're going to say Cisco, Cait etc helping him then that can be said about Avengers working together as a unit with Iron Man directing everyone half the time....but we're not going by context alone, powers as well. What makes you think Grodd's TP isn't? The guy was controlling people from mass distances away...Iron Man resisted Wanda's TP(he's a human is he not?) obviously she's not that powerful if a human can resist it.

He needs certain biochemical/psychological events to occur for him to time travel.

DC team should take both rounds.

Round 1 - Flash can take Clint, Widow, and probably Witch. I think Slade can beat Cap for a majority or at the least keep him busy. Flash might be able to drop him as well. Grodd will have to locate and stop Ant-Man. Reverse Flash has to deal with Quicksilver and, the biggest threat, Thor. If he's not screwing around, Thawne grabs one of the archer's arrows and takes down Thor. We've seen him vulnerable to piercing attacks before. His lightning and physical attacks are useless against Thawne. I believe RF was as fast or faster than Quicksilver.

Round 2 - Basically the same as above. Clark can solo Falcon, WM and Tony plus the rest of the team. He'd have trouble with Quicksilver who has better speed feats but QS can't do any damage to him.

Neither team significantly benefits from the prep. The DC team learns Thor's piercing vulnerabilities and the Marvel team learns about Grodd's durability.