Team wins in a high difficult fight with Kaguya being the MVP, but Juubito, Guy and Momo end up dying. Frieza Supernova also ain't helping him if Team can simple travel between dimensions due to Momo's Dimensional travelling and Kaguya's Yomotsu Hirasaka.
@arthur_morgan: I don’t know about 7 Saiyan Saga Vegeta’s but first form Frieza is definitely way above him. IIRC Vegeta had to put himself in a coma so he could be powerful enough to fight him in his final form.
@takenstew22: dude vegeta was planet level in the saiyan saga with a power level of max 30k-40k iirc and frieza had a power level of 530k in his first form.
their diffrence is actualy way higher than ssj2 teen gohan and cell jr‘s.
he kills 7 saiyan saga vegeta while sitting in his chair.
@joviolma: eh, only cuz he let nail hit him doesnt mean he lets every1 do the same.
He is too cocky with his opponents, so I don't see why he wouldn't do that here, plus, Team has a far better versatile than anyone in the Namek Saga and he has no counters for that sadly :(
also he did only cuz he saw his power level.
Yeah, proving he is too cocky, the same can happen here, is not like Frieza has any counter to Matter Manipulation on a Molecular Level, can counter Juudara and Kaguya's Immortality and has any counter to Mind Manipulation such as IT and Sasuke's Genjutsu, no resistance to heat manipulation with Amaterasu or Soul Destruction with the TSOs, plus his poor cutting feat resistances.
final form frieza‘s first move was a ki blast.
Good for him this, is First Form Frieza, lol.
he spammed his beam vs goku even before starting to actualy fight.
Final Form Frieza, not base one, plus, his beams have poor AoE and can't even vaporize Dende, Immortality hard counters this, he also never showed the ability to resist against Acid, Acid dimension GG, lol.
this is a fanfic vs match with no rules stated.
I could care less though if the rules are not stated. Frieza is in First Form here and following the images the OP provided this is Naruto Team from the War Arc with the exception of Momo and Namek Arc Frieza
frieza one shots.
I wasn't aware Frieza could kill Immortals.
he played with nail and didnt even want to kill him becouse he needed information.
He also didn't spammed Ki blasts against Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan while he was fighting with them on his first form, so I don't see why the same doesn't happen here
normaly frieza one shots fodder in character and basicly the whole naruto verse is fodder.
You mean his haxless featless fodders ? Yeah what about it ? You gonna need more to convince me otherwise than Frieza wins cuz he has better DC than them, he can't do nothing to put Kaguya and Madara down, has no counters to their haxes and he never faced Soul destruction before, and for the last, his poor cutting resistance.
@joviolma: the fact that that you use trunks cutting him as poor cutting resistence , i should stop here tbh.
his beam is not his only atack.
AoE is irrelevant.
literaly any ki blast got potential to one shot any1 in naruto.
being cocky doesnt equal playing around with fodder he doesnt know and dont need anything from them.
this is a fanfic vs match about who beats who.
frieza one shots.
frieza shoots the immortals deep into space with a ki blast or simply paralyses them , if he cant kill them he finds something to imobile them he is not stupid.
also how immortal are they? have they feats of
coming back from being completly vaporized?
in character frieza is cocky and also one shots fodder.
you imply frieza lets literaly every1 he fights hit him first which is simply wrong.
here its about who wins and nothing more which means frieza one shots no reason for him to play around , this is not vs nail.
ki > a reality warping dragon.
ki > buu‘s beam which can turn any matter to whatever he wants.
hakai energy erases everything including soul yet we saw it being overpowered with simply more ki.
ki blasts have heat since even a casual mini ki blast from kid gohan could light up wood instantly.
we can assume the heat gets higher the stronger the ki blast since more ki = higher stats in every department.
if he got no heat resistence than kid gohans ki blast would burn him which for a fact isnt true.
he can survive a planets explosion while nearly dead and cut in half so first form frieza wont have a problem doing the same since he can tank planet busting atack easiely.
@joviolma: the fact that that you use trunks cutting him as poor cutting resistence , i should stop here tbh.
I didn't used Trunks cutting him as a feat, keep up with my arguments mate, nice to see you only addressed this and failed to give me the feats for Frieza countering the versatile Kaguya and Madara has on their arsenal, and also failed to provide to me counters to Sasuke Genjutsu or Amaterasu.
his beam is not his only atack.
Good for him I never said it was, but at the same time, he doesn't spams Ki blasts while fighting against people IC.
AoE is irrelevant.
No problem, his beams can't even vaporize Dende, so yeah, it definitely ain't killing Immortal beings when he lacks the feats
literaly any ki blast got potential to one shot any1 in naruto.
I wasn't aware that Frieza could kill Immortal beings right now, specially when his said Beams with the exception of his Supernova failed to turn even the fodders such as Dende into dust, and now for some reason, will manage to help him to kill Immortal beings, and nice to see that again, you haven't provide anything that proves that Frieza can counter the hax Team has, being able to blow up planets don't grant you a a win against someone far more versatile than you and when you lacks counters to their feats I'm afraid :(
being cocky doesnt equal playing around with fodder he doesnt know and dont need anything from them.
He also didn't knew anything about Krillin and Gohan or needed anything from them as far I'm concerned, also (Spoiler Alert) He didn't spammed Ki blasts against them and has zero reasons to spam here, plus is IC for him to play around with his opponents despite lacking knowledge about them, he never faced a Human before such as Krillin and yet he didn't spammed Ki blasts against him.
this is a fanfic vs match about who beats who.
Lmao, what the h3ll are you even talking about now.
frieza one shots.
Repeating that again ? I wasn't aware Frieza could kill Immortals.
frieza shoots the immortals deep into space with a ki blast or simply paralyses them
He can't shoot them into space when he lacks the feats to do this, he actually never did this to anyone as far I'm concerned, and in case you are not aware, Kaguya can travel between dimensions, so yeah, not working, and plus, Naruto can counter paralyze techniques as he did against Kaguya, and Madara don't needs to move to cast Limbo, a shadow that shares the same abilities as him and exists in a different plane of existence, he can simple attack Frieza using this, and I don't recall First Form Frieza using Paralyze, I don't even know if he can do that in that form tbh.
, if he cant kill them he finds something to imobile them he is not stupid.
He is haxless and lacks counters for their haxes, and yes, Frieza definitely is dumber than Madara who is a Genius in combat, Madara don't even need to move on his own, he can manipulate his TSO and fire it against Frieza, or resort to use his Limbo to attack him, Sasuke if needed can even teleport Frieza to one of Naruto's attacks such as his Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken + TSO(Destroyed into a molecular level and soul destroyed, how funny) or Sasuke can simple put him in a Genjutsu if needed.
also how immortal are they? have they feats of coming back from being completly vaporized?
Kaguya managed come back from chakra alone, Juubito when he had the God Tree destroyed half of his body with his own TSO and managed to regenerate when he was completed, and like herself stated, the only way Naruto and Sasuke could put her down was via Yin-Yang Seals, that's why she needed to split them and that's everything she and Zetsu was worried, despite the fact Naruto was a TSO user and the same TSOs can affect people even in a Spiritual Level and turn them into dust(destroyed in a molecular level) daily reminder, when charged with Chakra, TSOs can affect even those that have resistance against that following feats, that's why Juubito had half of his body destroyed despite the fact he could interact with that. And is irrelevant, cuz Frieza couldn't even vaporize fodders with his attacks, and now he is going to vaporize 2 Immortals that are >>>> Dende ?
in character frieza is cocky and also one shots fodder.
Funny, I don't remember him doing that with Krillin and Gohan, only his featless fodder soldiers in the Namek Saga, plus, is not like any of them are Immortal, you gonna need better than this.
you imply frieza lets literaly every1 he fights hit him first which is simply wrong.
I'm not implying anything, I'm saying that he has no counters to nothing on their arsenal, so he loses regardless, and following his stupid and cocky personality, I don't doubt he would let himself get hit by one of their attacks just to make fun of them, and in the process is going to be destroyed in a molecular level and soul damaged, lol.
here its about who wins
True, Team wins cuz they have a more versatile arsenal.
and nothing more which means frieza one shots no reason for him to play around
Say that to Krillin and Gohan that unlike the Team, didn't had nothing impressive on their arsenal to being with.
this is not vs nail.
It seems like we have a Sherlock Holmes in there huh ?
ki > a reality warping dragon.
Shenron can't affect those stronger than his creator: Kami. So yeah, I don't see your point, plus, Reality Warp is not even the same kind of hax Team has you going to need to better than this.
ki > buu‘s beam which can turn any matter to whatever he wants.
Buu >>> Frieza and the whole HST, you going to need better than that, stop bringing an unrelated character here. Plus, Buu's beam is a different kind of hax, it is transmutation and it did worked in Vegito in the same way, the only thing that didn't happened is that he didn't died like the others, he only could keep his conscience and power, but his body itself failed to resist the technique sadly :(
hakai energy erases everything including soul yet we saw it being overpowered with simply more ki.
Namek Frieza never tanked a Hakai before, false equivalence. Plus, Team is not Ki users they use Chakra which is a different energy from Ki so claim he would resist it cuz he can resist Hakai is again another one of your assumptions, plus, he survived a fodder Hakai Energy from Sidra, not even a normal Hakai, so we have no idea how strong that Hakai was to being with, Sidra right off stated that he was going to destroy Frieza despite the fact this was just moments after him surviving Hakai Energy. Again, what proof you have Frieza will prevent his Molecules and Soul to be destroyed by a TSO when he lacks the feats to do this in Namek Saga ?
ki blasts have heat since even a casual mini ki blast from kid gohan could light up wood instantly.
If the best feat is light up wood is not better than Amaterasu sadly :( Current Goku was scared of the Planet's core :(
we can assume the heat gets higher the stronger the ki blast since more ki = higher stats in every department.
No. Ki increases your power and speed, it says nothing about the heat increase, Goku was damaged by Lava, currently he was scared of the Planet's core and any claim about how big his Ki heat is is a baseless assumption
if he got no heat resistence than kid gohans ki blast would burn him which for a fact isnt true.
So your best point is that Frieza can tank heat that can light up wood huh ? Yeah, definitely ain't beating fire hot enough to burn normal fire and that can vaporize steel blades in a instant.
he can survive a planets explosion while nearly dead and cut in half
He received Goku's Ki and was strong enough to survive his blast so he was stronger than his first form, so scale the feat is already a big assumption claim that First Form Frieza can do the same here.
so first form frieza wont have a problem doing the same since he can tank planet busting atack easiely.
Cute, so he can tank big explosions, I wasn't aware this gives you resistance against Matter Manipulation, Genjutsu, Soul Destruction, and Heat Manipulation, neither Acid from Kaguya's Dimension.
@joviolma: kami cant affect them with his hax becouse their ki > his thats why shenlong cant affect them , his limit is based on kami‘s limit.
my point is not that buu is stronger.
just like my point was not that hakai was never used on namek saga frieza.
my point is that ki > abilites that erase the soul.
so if some1 weaker than namek saga frieza uses hakai on him it wont work.
if this is to complicated for you than this is pointless.
goku was never damaged by lava.
ki increases literaly every stat including hax not only speed and power.
why didnt vegetto die when he was turned into food?
becouse he was stronger than buu and him turning into food was obviously just toriyama showing how much stronger vegetto was that even as food he can beat him and possibly just as a gag to be honest.
according to the series own logic , he shouldnt be affected by the chocolate beam at all when even time hax and even erasur gets thrown out of the window when it comes to higher ki
lol at frieza not being able to shoot them into space.
you dont need feats for shit like this.
the force of his ki blasts is more than anything any1 in naruto can handle.
so she was not vaporized? or how did she turn into chakra?
lol at acid.
genjutsu wont work since frieza doesnt have chakra.
soul destroying wont work , as frieza showed higher ki > existence erasur including soul.
and if you dont get it , i dont mean namek saga frieza resisted hakai , i mean it shows higher ki > soul destroying atacks.
if ki and chakra is unequal than show me some1 in naruto having an ability that damages the soul equaly from a god of destruction even if it was not his full power.
@joviolma: kami cant affect them with his hax becouse their ki > his thats why shenlong cant affect them , his limit is based on kami‘s limit.
Kami can't affect anyone with hax, cuz when it comes to reality warp Kami has no such hax, only his Dragon, that is very limited, his Dragon can't affect those that > his creator, this is not resistance against reality warping, this simple means that being above Kami render Shenron abilities to harm you useless, and neither means that he has any counter for Team's arsenal, there is no proof that this rule applies to Narutoverse so claim that Frieza can counter it is again another one of your assumptions that has no proof to be supported though, try to find a better argument please.
my point is not that buu is stronger.
just like my point was not that hakai was never used on namek saga frieza.
my point is that ki > abilites that erase the soul.
No, this is your head canon, it simple means that when it comes to DBverse, as long you are stronger than your opponent, you can overpower certain haxes, no proof such a rule applies to Narutoverse as well, and again, you haven't proved to me Namek Frieza can do that, he was struggling to do that in Golden Form and so was Base Current Goku, and that Hakai has literally zero feats to be put any impressive level.
so if some1 weaker than namek saga frieza uses hakai on him it wont work.
So go ahead and show to me Namek Frieza resisting Hakai, actually, go ahead and show to me him resisting techniques that can destroy one in a Molecular Level and Soul Level at the Namek Saga and on his First Form, if you have nothing but feats accomplished by him in a posterior saga, and by a featless Hakai Ball that was taking minutes to even erase Base Goku that was weaker than Zamasu that was effortless erased by an actual Hakai, I have no reason to assume he will tank a TSO attack, Genjutsu or being throw at the Acid. He could only accomplish such a thing in Golden Form, and unlike his franchise, there is no proof you can resist TSO by simple being stronger, you need to possess either Senjutsu Chakra or Six Paths Chakra which obviously, Frieza lacks, at very least, you could have showed to me him resisting Matter Manipulation and Soul Destruction, which you didn't.
if this is to complicated for you than this is pointless.
goku was never damaged by lava.
Good, was still scared of the Planet's Core.
ki increases literaly every stat including hax not only speed and power.
Frieza don't have hax comparable to the Team, and I'm curious to know: Since when ?
why didnt vegetto die when he was turned into food? becouse he was stronger than buu and him turning into food was obviously just toriyama showing how much stronger vegetto was that even as food he can beat him and possibly just as a gag to be honest.
If you think is a gag moment, I have no reason to continue arguing against that to be honest. Plus, like I said, is irrelevant, because Vegito was affected by the beam in the same way, he simple didn't died but his matter did change, again another proof that Frieza will not counter Madara or Naruto's TSOs Matter and Soul Destruction, neither will counter their Mind Manipulation techniques when he is lacking the feats.
according to the series own logic , he shouldnt be affected by the chocolate beam at all when even time hax and even erasur gets thrown out of the window when it comes to higher ki
I have no idea what are you talking about now, point still, he was affected by the Beam 2 times, and the only thing that happened is that he kept his conscience, nothing more, he couldn't protect his Matter.
lol at frieza not being able to shoot them into space.
He will not. Main reason ? He don't do this with anyone, and his fodder beams ain't firing them into space, which they can just return.
you dont need feats for shit like this.
Lol, nice to see you can't even provide feats for the side you are debating for.
the force of his ki blasts is more than anything any1 in naruto can handle.
Still talking about Ki blasts. Still forgetting Frieza rarely uses Ki blasts that can vaporize people in his first form, and forgets he literally has zero counters to Team's Arsenal. Yeah mate I'm not buying it, you need to find a better argument than his DC.
so she was not vaporized? or how did she turn into chakra?
She lost her physical form by the Bijuus and started to regained and returning from the chakra mass that was on her Rabbit, plus, why you only addressed this ? Did you missed all my examples ? Juubito when he had the God Tree destroyed half of his body with his own TSO and managed to regenerate when he was completed, and like herself stated, the only way Naruto and Sasuke could put her down was via Yin-Yang Seals, that's why she needed to split them and that's everything she and Zetsu was worried, despite the fact Naruto was a TSO user and the same TSOs can affect people even in a Spiritual Level and turn them into dust(destroyed in a molecular level) daily reminder, when charged with Chakra, TSOs can affect even those that have resistance against that following feats, that's why Juubito had half of his body destroyed despite the fact he could interact with that. And is irrelevant, cuz Frieza couldn't even vaporize fodders with his attacks, and now he is going to vaporize 2 Immortals that are >>>> Dende ?
lol at acid.
So go ahead and show to me Frieza resisting against Acid.
genjutsu wont work since frieza doesnt have chakra.
You don't need chakra to make Genjutsu work and in case our little ignorant friend is not aware, IT worked on beings without chakra just fine though, so I'm not seeing your argument.
Credits for this explanation goes to Westwood_Trevor
This dumb argument has to stop. It was never stated anywhere that Genjutsu works by controlling the chakra flow, what is said is that Genjutsu affects the senses to control the chakra flow not the other away around. You people are making as much sense as someone who interprets "A water-pump is something that works on electricity to control water flow" as " Water-pump controls water to work on electricity".
The other silly argument people tend to use to claim that Genjutsu works by controlling chakra is the fact that using a burst of chakra can break Genjutsu, but we have seen that certain types of Genjutsu can also be broken through pain so does this mean that Genjutsu works by controlling pain as well, as opposed to it being an effect of Genjutsu ? Obviously not...
Furthermore what those people like to conveniently forget is the fact that chakra was given to humans by the sage of six paths, the man who confessed that he didn't like the way his mother was using Genjutsu to control people and searched for ways to dispel it, so how very surprising indeed that the chakra he gave to humanity can free them from Genjutsu...
Also, you speak of the chakra pathway system but it seems that you don't know much about it. Just because Shinobi can create chakra doesn't mean that everyone and their grandmother in Naruto go around carrying a mass of chakra inside of them. It has been explained since part 1 that chakra is something Ninjas create consciously when they need to, not at all times.
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Notices that Naruto said:'' I'm gonna make my chakra''
^ As the above chart shows and explains, chakra is something that is consciously created for the use of Ninjutus or Genjutsu. Various showings through the series confirm this. just to use a couple :
Naruto building up chakra to use the Summoning jutsu, but getting that chakra absorbed by Kisame, conclusion : "I can't feel any chakra".
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Tobirama discussing the village's future with Hashirama, but not realizing that Madara was spying on them, reason : "I'm not kneading any chakra"
A more practical display of this comes from the Byakugan vision. For instance.
Neji's body while not using chakra and when using chakra :
Kidomaru's chakra network when preparing to use a jutsu :
^ Notice how chakra only flows through the parts related to the jutsu.
And yet you people insist that Genjutsu can only work on chakra, even though we have seen Kabuto and Itachi Genjutsu fodder villagers... so tell me why would the villagers and some random woman, who for all we know were not even trained to create chakra in the first place, be creating chakra and having it flow through their heads for no apparent reason whatsoever, just so Itachi and Kabuto can use it to genjutsu them ? The answer is that they weren't, and Genjutsu does not need chakra to work.
1: Infinite Tsukuyomi is a Genjutsu. Kaguya put the world in a massive Genjutsu, before chakra creation.Saying "it was the strongest Genjutsu so nope. Still Genjutsu can't affect people without chakra 'cause only Inf. Tsukuyomi can" it's very very hilarious. That's a Genjutsu, end of story.
2: Another example is in the Itachi's light novel. On, i believe, page 30, Itachi was talking to Shisui, and Shisui explains that occular Genjutsu and Genjutsu like it can affect anyone because it doesn't disrupt chakra like other basic Genjutsu. He explains that Genjutsu affect the nervous system and mind itself and fills the gap by pouring their own chakra as a medium.
If jiraiya's quote isn't enough to convince you, another quote by another character saying the exact same thing should work:
3: Boruto The Movie: scientists created a ninja tool that allows people without chakra to use jutsu. They wouldn't need to create a tool like that if everyone had chakra, which means not everyone has chakra. Which means yes, putting villagers under a Genjutsu means you didn't manipulate the chakra in their cranial nerves, something that, again, is only mentioned in a wiki, and again only proves that Genjutsu targets the senses.
So now that that is settled, we can all agree that:
There is no scan in the whole Naruto manga stating that Genjutsu requires a target to have chakra, whereas there is more than one scan explicitly stating that Genjutsu targets the senses.
Not everyone in the Narutoverse has chakra constantly in their body, they have to first be trained to make it and then actively make it, which is proven numerous times in the manga.
Kaguya's usage of IT isn't an exception to the rule because there wasn't a rule in the first place because there are literally no scans stating such a rule in the entirety of the manga. For it to be the exception, there would have to be an example of a Genjutsu failing to work because a target didn't have chakra.
Simple Example:
Chakra must be created first, as already proved. And in order to create chakra training is required (ex. Shinobi: Genin, Chunin, Jonin etc).
After ^ I'll show you Kabuto performing a Genjutsu, "Temple of Nirvana", and put every normal person into an induced instinctive-sleep (Genin included, like Naruto).
This is a normal girl that was mind controlled by Itachi with a Sharingan Genjutsu.
In the Boruto manga Toono Katasuke was put under a Genjutsu, mind control, by Kashin Koji.
soul destroying wont wor, as frieza showed higher ki > existence erasur including soul.
You still have to prove this with Namek Frieza's feats which you didn't, plus resist a featless Hakai on his strongest form while struggling is not proof he will do the same arcs later and in a much weaker state, and unlike DB, there is no rule saying you can resist one's technique by simple being stronger than a person.
and if you dont get it , i dont mean namek saga frieza resisted hakai , i mean it shows higher ki > soul destroying atacks.
No, it simple means that having higher Ki you can overpower other Ki attacks, and you haven't showed anything to show to me how powerful that Hakai Ball was or how this even scales to Namek Frieza, until then, Frieza still getting destroyed in a Molecular Level, Genjutsu'd, Burned to ashes and BFR to the Acid Dimension.
if ki and chakra is unequal than show me some1 in naruto having an ability that damages the soul equaly from a god of destruction even if it was not his full power.
What the h3ll this even means ? GoDs simple can destroy Bodies and souls, and TSOs can accomplish the same thing, what are you even talking about right now ?
if chakra = ki than it simply wont work.
That's why Genjutsu and BFR still a option.
matter manipulation wont help.
Based on what you posted so far which was nothing, until I can see Frieza resisting Molecular Matter Manipulation and Soul Destruction in his First Form in Namek Saga, it will still working regardless
naruto is beraly past raditz.
Funny, Raditz is a fodder which only outclasses Naruto in DC, he loses to any God Tier tbh.
@joviolma: Joviolma u r the realest, truest fan holding down the fort for Naruto, props. Everyone here knows Frieza joke slaps these fodder to death but u at least entertain the possibility of their victory.
Let's see what you have too say this time, although coming from someone that never read Naruto is is regarded by multiple users to only say BS, I will not be surprised in hear this from you again, tbh after reading your post, that's exactly what I confirmed. Firstly, I will ask gently for you to show me any notable speed feat for Namek First Form Frieza, as well show to me any notable hax resistance accomplished by his first form on Namek, as well Heat Resistance and resistance to Molecular Matter Manipulation and Soul Destruction, or any resistance against Acid, or the means to counter Juudara and Kaguya's Immortality.
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Minato's soul without both arms, after having his arms cut by the TSOs.
And yes, those things are souls, this was already said like 3 times
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True desperation is shown when Naruto fans start reaching for genjutsu excuses. Let me end this for u:
The shinju tree isn't here and can't be grown in mere seconds, so no IT.
You likely has something Naruto and the fans following the way you talk about them, did Kishimoto stole candy from your mouth when you was young ? Not changing the subject, Kaguya, neither Tree Eyes Juudara needs Shinju Tree to cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi, she could freely cast in the past before the existence of a Moon which was confirmed by Hagoromo with the conjunction of her ocular powers, and Madara put Obito in a prototype of the Infinite Tsukuyomi with his Sharingan alone while connected to the Gedo Mazo, they are fighting a single person here, Planetary AoE is not necessary to put him in a Genjutsu.
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Genjutsu affects everyone in Naruto because they ALL have chakra networks
So you can go ahead and show to me that the persons Kabuto affects as well the woman Itachi put in a Genjutsu have a chakra network system or are even chakra users, and in case you are not aware, there is no scan in the Naruto manga saying that you needs that to affect people with Genjutsu, Tayuya's flute could put Itachi in a genjutsu and Sasuke easily could replicate said feat with Itachi despite the later being a Edo, a being made that with the exception of its's eyes, have its internal body made of dirty and ashes and in case you are not aware, the Infinite Tsukuyomi could put cats in a Genjutsu as well, despite the fact Hagoromo's chakra was only spread to human beings and the nothing in the manga confirming that those animals have chakra networks.
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its literally a bodily system for them like arteries and veins. Those who run out of chakra don't just lose the ability to do ninjutsu, THEY DIE.
This is false as Ninjas in Naruto not always have Chakra on their body, the scans I posted so far also shows that Naruto lost his chakra when Kisame hit him with Samehada(spoiler alert) he didn't died.
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The post u made was really something but these are the facts according to the verse, not a fan.
Exactly, and the facts according to the verse is, Frieza lacks resistance to the hax Team has and following his cocky personality he loses to any relevant technique the Team has, unless you can prove me otherwise and show to me any impressive speed feat or any ability to resist Team's hax. Daily reminder he has no speed feat, neither has anyone weaker than him, he is at very least Mid to the High end Quad Mach which is not enough here, the only thing you can try to scale off is Piccolo's Moon feat but and Kid Goku being FTLightning which is utterly false since it was only a figure speech since he was going to be faster than lightning and calm as the sky, lol, about the Moon feat.
No one ever dodged that specific Ki blast from Piccolo
There is absolutely no time frame confirming how much time it takes to Piccolo's Blast Reach Moon and using anime time frames only prove that considering that no Ki blast was that fast comparable to Piccolo beam.
Gohan and Krillin already moved themselves multiples times faster than their own Ki Blasts as well the Ki blasts from other Users like Reccome and yet still taking 1 hour even in full speed to travel to point A to point B in Namek
The speed of the Ki blasts showed inconsistencies through the entire series I don't see why this wouldn't be one
The other only Moon feat was Roshi's Kamehameha which no one ever dodged in Roshi's Buff Form Full Power, in RoF he proved to be strong enough to defeat multiple Frieza's soldiers that were giving trouble to Krillin
No Character was stated to surpass the Two Realms of Speed: Sound and Light until Dyspo, and if Toriyama really wanted to proved that they are Light speed he would have done this before
Even characters like 17 and 18 need sometime to reach Kame's house using their Travel speed
Z-Fighters multiple times failed to react against Solar Flare(i.e Light), even when they had Knowledge of the technique.
I will elaborate.....Again.
Krillin and Gohan managed to move themselves faster than Recoome's Eraser Gun(they didn't start moving before (They didn't start to move until Recoome fired his attack) and yet it still takes hours to move between Guru's house and Frieza's ship.
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Also should be noted that during the fight against Guldo, Krillin and Gohan showed to be able to move at speeds almost equal to those of their Ki Blasts.
Raditz Saga Piccolo strongest technique:'' Makankosappo''
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The technique was able to hurt Raditz, the PL should was above 1307(Gohan's power level when hurt Raditz) according to Raditz the technique possess a PL of 1330
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By power scaling and the fact that Piccolo use this technique to attack Raditz that means that:
SBC>Moon Buster Beam
Raditz was able to barely dodged the beam, and according to Piccolo if he charged again Raditz would do the same
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Nappa and Vegeta Arc:
Piccolo and Krillin uses a 2 handed SBC and a Kamehameha to kill Nappa, which he clearly notices and manage to doged with easy, even though that he was hurt
By the logic they should be FTL don't ? Yes, they should, but guess what ? They don't.
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Goku with a PL of 8000 takes 28 hours to cross all the snake way which have 1.000.000 KM.
After Goku finsihes training with King Kai, he gets wished back to life and must make his way back to King Yemma across Snake Way (1 million Km) to meet Kami who can take him back to Earth
King Kai suggests Goku can make it in two days at his current speed, but he also says the Saiyans will arrive the next day.
Snake Way is 1,000,000km long, and when Goku left King Kai, it seems he expected Goku to go the distance in 2 days at his current speed. This tells us that at this point in time, Goku can shift at 20,833Kmph, or 12,945mph. This seems fair since King Kai has been training Goku, he should know how fast Goku is and how long it would take him.
As we know though, Goku didn't take 2 days. He arrived back to King Yemma the next day, 3 hours and 37 minutes after the Saiyans arrived.
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In the Kame House when Goku calls Master Roshi via King Kai, Bulma and Oolong are about to eat, or have just started eating:
A quick google search shows a number of sources stating that lunch times in Japan traditionally run from 11:30am to 1:30pm.
If They started lunch at 11:30am and took a further 13 minutes from that point to calling the dragon and wishing Goku back to life, then Goku traversed Snake Way in 27 hours and 37 minutes. I personally dont find this a huge leap. Toriyama specifcally made King Kai mention the "next day" and he specifically mentions times of the day that add another 3 hours and 37 minutes onto the time of arrival of the Saiyans.
This is a speed of Mach 30, Combat speed by fans calculations in forums and other debates are 10 times faster than travel/movement/flying speed, but Goku clearly moves faster than Nappa's brain can process, even though that Nappa can easily avoid a 2HSBC and a Kamehameha from Krillin which was at that time stronger than Raditz, and he moves faster than Raditz reaction which was only able to barely dodged, but Nappa clearly moves before the beams even touch him.
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Should be noted, that King Kai stated that Goku would arrive in 2 days, and the fact that he arrives sooner proves that he was going fast as he could.
Note: The Guidebook also confirmed that the Snake Way have 1.000.000 KM
Serpent Road
Area: Afterlife
Special Characteristics: A road that links the northern Kaio Planet with Enma Daio’s castle. It’s called the Serpent Road because it is shaped like a serpent. Its total length is approximately 1 million kilometers. If you lose your footing on this road, you will fall into Hell and will be unable to return.
Frieza was able to casually moves faster than the Beams from Gohan, Krillin and Piccolo fused with Nail, actually his beams are fast enough that not even a person like Piccolo can see, he says that he only saw a little light, similar when someone fired a bullet and we are only able to see the light, Frieza also moved faster than they Eyesight, but Goku easily reacted against his beams and attacks, but yet, Frieza blitzed him multiple times while moving and attacking in their battle.
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Frieza movement/travel/flying speed >Goku's reaction> Frieza Nail beams>Namek Saga Z warriors reaction = Namek Saga Z Warriors ki blasts> Goku Mach 30 flying speed > Nappa's reaction speed>2HSBC>or=Krillin Kamehameha>Raditz's reaction speed >Piccolo Raditz saga SBC>Moon buster beam
Following the Moon buster beam logic, Frieza should be FTL right ? Yes, but guess what ? He is not. Why can I say that ?well let's use a example of a stronger character: Gotenks SSJ, which according to Piccolo is stronger than Goku and Vegeta(Buu saga):
Gotenks according to himself circle the globe dozens of times let's say that he circle the earth36 times in 25 minutes and sleep for 4 minutes and some seconds(the fusion only last 30 minutes and Piccolo was above frieza that time, he should be able to reach Gotenks in a short amount of time, so I assume a quantifiable time frame)
Earth's Circumference: 40.075 KM
Fusion time limit: 30 Minutes, 1/2 Hour
He circled the globe: Dozens, likely 36 times
Time: 25 minutes, 1500 seconds
He cross 36 times 40075 KM, that means he cross at maximum: 1.442.700 KM in 1500 seconds
Speed=Distance/Time
Speed=1.442.700/1500
Speed=961,8 KM per second
As you can see, Gotenks which is stronger than Goku and Vegeta Buu saga, have a travel/movement/flying speed of 961,8 Km per second, Piccolo is obviously tired and sweating due the fact that he was after Gotenks even though that he is stronger than Frieza, even doubling the valor is just 2000 KM per second at best.
Note: Is pretty obvious that Gotenks wasn't going all out, but the fact that someone stronger than Frieza took a considerable amount of time to reach him, time enough for Gotenks sleep, is pretty obviously that they weren't not Relativistic in Travel speed in Namek Saga, and should be noted that Gotenks in the Japenese translation never stated that he circled the globe Dozens of times, only several times.
Conclusion:
Gotenks SSJ Flying/Travel/movement speed>Buu Saga Piccolo Flying/Travel/Movement speed> Namek Frieza movement/travel/flying speed >Goku's reaction> Frieza Nail beams>Namek Saga Z warriors reaction = Namek Saga Z Warriors ki blasts> Goku Mach 30 flying speed > Nappa's reaction speed>2HSBC>or=Krillin Kamehameha>Raditz's reaction speed >Piccolo Raditz saga SBC>Moon buster beam
Note: I believe that the Buu tiers dudes are indeed Relativistic, but with so many consistent feats, the Moon feat speed shouldn't be taken at full value and as a absolute proof that the Z-Fighters at SS Saga were relativistic, consistent feats and statements shows that they are not.
And we have Vegeta's Final Flash with a speed of Mach 40.000-45.000(It crossed in at least 1 second a massive distance) as well Cell Kamehameha which possess at least the same speed, Goku also react against the attack.
With this we can at least confirm that they reaction and combat are faster than their travel speed, this was kind of proved using Tao's feat.
And we have Yamcha's statement saying that Master Roshi's house is 10.000 KM from where they are, and Goku was trying to proves that he could teleport and everyone when see the distance believed in him, and based on Vegeta's reaction and face, is pretty obviously that he huge distance was enough to convince him, the same guy that was in par with First Form Frieza, which means that at that time they don't have a speed of not even 10.000 KM per second, actually, considering that Vegeta was training even after the Frieza saga when can say that one year and half later, he would undoubtedly be stronger than Frieza
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And about Piccolo's Moon feat
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Whereas for the Naruto Team, they are extremely fast, far faster than the ones such as the Raikage
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The Raikages use a Mode called Lightning Release Chakra Mode which increases their speed and reactions, there is actually good evidence that proves that the Raikages are actually faster than lightning for example, we have Sasuke manipulating Natural Lightning in his fight against Itachi, according to Black Zetsu Lightning strikes at 1/1000th of a second and Itachi wouldn't manage to dodge, but in the end, even severely fatigued and almost blind Itachi was able to activate his Susano'o when Kirin was fired at him, but the Manga gives to us evidence that he didn't have his Susano'o activate until Sasuke fires Kirin at him, the evidences for example were the fact that neither Sasuke or Zetsu recognized what was the Susano' until Itachi activate and explain post-Kirin,, and Sasuke was convinced that Itachi was dead which wouldn't make sense if he really saw him doing something before he fire Kirin, and as the final proof, the anime which is merely giving us a better light of the scene, shows that Itachi wasn't using Susano'o until Kirin approach him.
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落雷は千分の一秒。。。音よりも速い！
Lightning strikes in one thousandth of a second... It's even faster than Sound
Note: A part of the text looks different cuz Black Zetsu for some reason everything that he says is Katakana instead of Hiragana
Depending of the size of the Mountain, the speed of Lightning can vary, this was the size of the Uchiha Hideout, I would say that it possess at least several hundreds of meters
And we know that Itachi's condition wasn't the best as we saw him having trouble in dodging Sasuke's Dragon Flame even Zetsu confirmed that his movements at that fight weren't normal.
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Also a heat feat, this same fire can burn Itachi despite the later resist Small sized Lightning Bolts, lol.
And yet, when Sasuke was in a far better condition than Itachi and using the same kind of eye as him, he was completely unable to follow the Raikage's movements with his eyes as we saw the Raikage easily avoiding Amaterasu which was said to be impossible to avoid just like Kirin, and moving faster than his eyesight.
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Even Cee, confirmed that the Raikage was too fast for the Sharingan to keep up, and we know that ninjas such as Kakashi already cut a Lightning Bolt in the past which was confirmed 3 times.
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Madara was revived and blind, he immediately paralyzed Hashirama and attacked both Sage Naruto and Sai, he moved so fast, that not even Naruto who was able to dodge the Third Raikage attack at this state could dodge the attack(This same Naruto is faster than his version that dodged Ay)
Sasuke tagged a more faster version of Madara, amped by Sage Mode, Sage Mode amp is so big that when Pain invaded the leaf village, even Shikaku said that since Naruto was using Sage Mode he was in a complete different level and no one should interfere in that fight, and the Shinobi were full aware of Lee's abilities to use the gates and even Lee wasn't confident enough that Naruto was going to beat Pain alone(If release the gates > SM it would be better teach Naruto this instead of SM btw), we know that the release of the gates increase one's physicals abilities several dozens of times, which would put Madara by a good margin even reaching at very least the Mid-High end MHS +
The Gate of Opening, Gate of Healing, Gate of Life, Gate of Pain, Gate of Limit, Gate of View, Gate of Wonder, and Gate of Death…The state when all Eight Gates are opened is called “Eight Gates Released Formation”. One’s physical abilitiesthat are essentially lying dormant within the body are forcibly withdrawn, (augmenting)one’s faculties several dozens of times over. When it is employed, it even enables the user to perform taijutsu that one cannot typically unleash. Even by employing the First Gate through the Seventh Gate, the body is injured and damaged. As for the Eighth Gate…
While, Madara even being severely fatigued reacted and blocked Naruto's SPSM punch, this Naruto being confirmed to be > his previous modes by Madara and the Databook even though that they distance by visual is only a few meters.
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Six Paths Sage Mode- Fourth Databook-Second Caption
''Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!"
Madara also was reacting and protecting himself from Guy's attacks(Pre-God Tree) The Manga confirms that the ones that uses the Gates achieve Tens of times more physical attributes than the their original strength, and even grants tens of times more power than the Kages, and Madara was reacting against Evening Elephant, and according to the Databook, the EE gets stronger and faster each time that is used which means that Guy's speed was increasing each time.
Releasing one’s power remitters to draw out power until the utmost limit, by opening the “Eight Gates Released Formation”, The Eighth Gate [Gate of Death], this taijutsu can be activated. For a moment, (one is) able to gain power even greater than the 5 kage (combined) however, the jutsu-caster will definitely reach death after its use — a double-edged sword. It is actually a super-speed hit/strike in air, a hitting (offensive) air-cannon.
There are *1 to 5 levels (steps, phases) of speed; raising the gear will increase the power.
(Guy vs Madara): Hitting out with unstoppable speed before the eyes, a great barrage of attacks in the face of death (to certain-death)! Might Guy had unleashed “Evening Elephant”, and overwhelmed even Madara who had become the Ten-Tails Jinchuuriki.”
Which means that he wasn't limited only to a single speed on that gate, his power was increasing constantly, and later he moved so fast that he bend space which none of his attacks or movements managed to do previously, to accomplish such a feat IRL, one would need to get extremely close to the speed of light almost reaching it at least.
空間がねじ曲がつただと
He is twisting the space around him ?!
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The idea of Guy almost reaching the speed of light isn't that absurd, since we know that even before that, Guy could manage to move so fast, that he produced the SFX that only appears to teleportation in the verse as I posted above ^
The Kanji 空間 can be translated as Airspace or space, but, in the japanese grammar Airspace is used under specific contexts such as expressions related to aerodynamics and planes.
And Later, Madara while testing his powers, used his Inton Raiha to caught both Naruto and Sasuke.
A Ninjutsu used by Madara Uchiha after acquiring Senjutsu of the Sage of the Six Paths, where he uses the Yin element to create forms out of nothing, combined with the Ray element and release from the palm of his hands, a hundred ray branches that capture the enemy with organized lightning.
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Both reacted with no effort, something that didn't surprised Madara
Madara and his Limbo were keeping pretty fine with Sasuke, Naruto and his clones Madara who was stated to have Reactions close or comparable to Naruto, the same guy that can dodge a confirmed Light speed attack
A ninjutsu used by those who gained the six paths power, they emit a beam of light to bisect the enemy. Like a sharp and pointed fang, it cuts all things with the speed of light, making it impossible for the enemy to evade even one swing.
Ironic, he is dodging one swing on that image
Azureus did some thread explaining about it a long time ago, I will let here if you have interest in check.
Actually, Databook or not there are a few things to be considered here:
Madara is not a Storm Release user he never used previously absorb the Juubi, and that fact that is referred as Six Paths Senjutsu means that to use this he would need to create via the Juubi chakra which is nothing more than Natural Energy.
Natural Energy based Jutsus are indeed fast as their source of power, Kirin comes to mind though considering that Sasuke used the Nature at his favor and created Kirin
The Databook calls the technique a Beam of light and confirms that cuts things with the speed of light making it undodgeable, indicating how the speed of light plays a factor in the jutsu and not just Madara's head swing, if you translate by other means, you will find translations such as cut all things at the speed of light, only confirming that the Light speed is also related to the swing used by the user.
The Databooks are not taking account Naruto and Sasuke, mostly likely is not count even or ordinary ninjas, based on some statements Databook and Madara confirmed that the Limbo is impossible to see or being sensed and yet Naruto and Sasuke were able to sense and see the Limbo, as well other examples
Rinbo Hengoku
Perceiving this phantom is impossible, the enemies unpreparedness invites disaster.
A person who posses the Rinnegan can intervene in an adjacent world, an extremely distance world. In that space a shadow is produced, which everyone who is connected with the current world can't feel. Not only will the jutsu user gain a duplicate of himself with equal ability, but it will also be invisible. Squaring of against a user, counter attack is impossible, going up against this ability will result in one losing against such a powerful enemy
The Rinnegan can shape one shadow. With a complete set of two Rinnegan it can shape 4.
When fighting the enemy in close combat the shadow will stay away. But after a time the shadow will return.
Would be pretty weird the Databook entries say something like:'' The Light fang is undodgeable........unless you are Naruto and Sasuke'', '' Limbo is impossible to being sensed and seen......unless you are Naruto and Sasuke'' :/ The Databook doesn't do this, it simple explains how the technique normally works and that's all, it rarely says who and how one can escape or endure such a technique, The Tenpechii and the Infinite Tsukuyomi comes to mind, the Databook profile about both, describes perfectly how such a technique works, and yet, they don't describes who can endure them, the IT doesn't says that Sasuke could counter, even though that by actual feats he indeed countered it, and the Tenpechii says that no one can survive such a power, which is not true since several people survived.
There is absolutely nothing suggesting that Madara fired the attack sideways, it wouldn't make any sense for a Genius like Madara regarded as one of the most complete Shinobis to have someone that he wants dead in front of him and fires a light-speed attack sideways.
Madara also had precognition(Since he is a Six Paths Senjutsu user and possess Hashirama's Sage Mode), if Naruto really dodged before, he would have sensed it, but based on Naruto's scream, he haven't noticed the attack before
Kishimoto could have used any other element, I mean, Madara had the Rinnegan so he had all the other 5 elements as well the Yin and Yang Release, Kishimoto could have made Madara use or split Lava, Lightnings, Acid, Maze, Water to cut Naruto's face or even the other Bijuu's powers, but he used Light, he choose to use a attack that was made of Natural Energy that later he would add into his databook that he made as a Light Speed attack and claiming that is undodgeable with a image of Naruto literally dodging.
Madara after that moment didn't try to use the Light Fang again, likely because he saw that was useless, he first tried to use the Lightning technique which was useless, later he tried to use the Light fang which was dodged, and later he simple tried to use his Limbos that was he last hope to beat both Naruto and Sasuke.
Naruto was stated to have better reactions than Juudara, which means that Naruto would react against Night Guy as well
Applying the ABC logic, Guy bend space while moving, which Haku couldn't do while moving between Mirrors, and he was stated to be able to move at Light Speed using the Mirrors(Until his speed start to decrease)
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FTL Night Guy confirmed. Sarcasm.
Naruto also moved a feat meters before Sasuke return from his Amenotejikara something that teleport someone in a instant.
When Naruto had jumped and get close to Madara Sasuke haven't returned yet, and in the next panel when Naruto was already in proximity Sasuke just landed just landed(based on the lines and his position) showing Naruto's speed to short distances, this same Naruto was keeping up with Madara which makes both comparable in combat speed at very least.
Its implied throughout the series that everyone on earth has a chakra network, as well as the Ootsusuki. Stop trying to skirt the facts.
When it was said that everyone in the Earth has a Chakra Network to being with ? Lol, and even assuming this, IT worked on animals so is irrelevant, go whine in another place, you are trying to embarrass yourself again, I hope you have any knowledge about Frieza and Naruto, when it comes to the later, you obviously don't have, and when it comes to the former, I aware your argument will be that he is Planet Buster so he stomps, although this is irrelevant since Team can simple escape with YH and is not like will resort to blow up the planet he is inside right off the bait.
BTW Frieza is a powerful telekinetic(possibly moreso than Piccolo) so genjutsu isn't going to be the easy street u think it is
Lmao, Having TK doesn't grant you resistance against Illusions, you can start showing to me Frieza realizing himself from illusions if such a claim is true ,his best TK feats in the manga are manipulate rocks and throw them at his opponents, lol, plus, MS Genjutsu alone worked against those with resistance against ordinay TP techniques and IT is far above those kind of Genjutsu even using the normal method to stop Genjutsu is useless against MS Genjutsu let alone Rinnegan or IT.
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And is not like Frieza can do much following his poor cutting piercing durability, he was cut by attacks that are not even close to Rasenshuriken which targets you in a Cellular Level and can be amped by TSOs(Molecular Level destruction)
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A fatigued Madara resting a Multi-Mountain sized Cutting Rasenshuriken
And we know that according to Gaara the distance between the roots of the tree are of several KMs which is supported by the fact that even Guy’s Hirudora that could dwarf the Turtle Island wasn’t that massive compared to the roots.
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Although this is not necessary since unlike Kaguya and 3 Eyed Juudara that were Immortal beings, Naruto can simple charge this and fire at Frieza, destroying him in a Molecular and Spiritual Level and obviously cutting him immediately right off the bait following his lack of feats proving he has anything preventing his molecules being target and destroyed by the TSO, as well his Soul.
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And in case you are not aware, while charging with Chakra following Juubito's feat, the detonation can damage even those that can interact with said orb, the Databook sentence talking about Kaguya's ETSB, says nothing but it just being a orb similar to Naruto's TSO but with a bigger size and charged with chakra, and yet, is confirmed to turn those hit by it into Nothing.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Mora - Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball
No rank, all ranges, offensive
Users: Kaguya Otsutsuki
Enclosing the power of all of creation, a chaos invoking jet black orb
Taking in the chakra of the shinobi that were captured in the Shinju, a maximized"Truth-Seeking Ball". It's the same as the black orbs on Naruto's back after he used the Six Paths Sage Mode, however, their size is not comparable. Taking in all chakra natures and yin and yang at once, it hides within the power to oblitrate the world and return it to nothing
Plus, Kaguya can kill and put Frieza's down with her EGVA According to the Fourth Databook, the technique has the potential of become the strongest offensive attack, the technique is also regarded as being similar to the Hyuuga Clan Eight Trigrams Vacuum Palm but according to the same databook,there is a big difference in power between both, being similar to the ETVP would also means that the technique targets the enemies’s vital spots when it damage them, and we know this works perfectly against DB Characters.
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Why stop here ? We have light fang as well, Frieza's 2 Weakness, Cutting attacks and Light in one, not only his weakness but several of his soldiers as well, lol.
Frieza is still too much for anyone in Naruto, the best they can hope for is that he doesn't take them seriously and decides to let them hit him with hax.
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