First Form Frieza= casual Star Buster while in Lazy chair
Kaguya is only star level Via Absorbing More I.T Chakra+ETSB=Star level
3 Eyed Madara= Large planet Level in AP and using his strongest attack.
Jigen=continental+
Juubi Obito=Continental Via Quad-Juubi Dama's
Toneri=Continental Via chakra slicing Ability that extends to the length of the moon
Momoshiki=Multi-Country buster
Madara is only large Planet level in AP he doesn't have many Destructive feats unless you give him quad-Juubi Dama's which would still tap out at continental to Multi-Continental level.
No one in Naruto can one shot a planet, the only way the can feeble do this is Via ETSB and that takes time to do so.
only Kaguya, Madara, and Juubi Obito have TSB to start with and only Kaguya has doe ETSB so you literally just have a star level over time fighter, a Large planet Level with AP Fighter, and a bunch of Continentals vs a casual Star buster.
Frieza wins here, the only threat would be KAguya with her ETSB and she needs time to do that while Freiza can do that instantly.
Freeza loses because that is who he is. Why is anyone even mentioning planet busting? The fight is not getting that far along. He's going to try toying with them and die very quickly as a result. The "in character" bit doomed him. Look at how he behaved in Namek saga. He thinks he is superior so he toys and he gets punished for it. Madara isn't just going to cut off his tail. He's going to tear him in half. Ki = chakra is the biggest downfall cause he's a HUGE fan of energy blasts. Half the team there is just going to absorb it.
Freeza loses because that is who he is. Why is anyone even mentioning planet busting? The fight is not getting that far along. He's going to try toying with them and die very quickly as a result. The "in character" bit doomed him. Look at how he behaved in Namek saga. He thinks he is superior so he toys and he gets punished for it. Madara isn't just going to cut off his tail. He's going to tear him in half. Ki = chakra is the biggest downfall cause he's a HUGE fan of energy blasts. Half the team there is just going to absorb it.
Why even mentioned the in character thing? That is not going to hardly make a difference in this battle anyways.
1. Everyone Frieza fought was at least light speed. Name one confirmed person on Naruto team who is light speed without scaling.
The only thing in Naruto which is a confirmed light speed is Light fang from Madara, which he isn't going to get a chance to use that because he get blitz.
2. everyone Frieza fought were already planet busters. Kaguya can only destroy a planet over time with ETSB, and Madara with his strongest attack is Large planet level Via AP.
Vegeta with a power of 18k can destroy a planet, if you want to use filler King Vegeta destroyed 3 planets.
3. Frieza attack potency even with his fist are enough to break half the team who isn't immortal in half.
Even if Frieza is using 5% of his 531k attack power that put him at the power level of 26550...more than enough to planet bust and break them with over planet level attack power in force alone.
@mygod000: Namek era characters are low end relativistic in terms of combat speed at best. Feats for them being light speed?
No, since they are casually faster than ki attack that can reach the moon in few seconds.
right now you are just downplaying them for no reason. Like I said even if we say First Form Frieza is holding back...he would stomp them regardless even if he was holding back to 4% of his powers.
a power level of 10k-18k is enough to bust planets easily in DBZ. there striking powers=Ki Blast in attack potency.
like I said Name one person on the Naruto team who is confirmed light speed...I'll wait.
@mygod000: You are incorrect about him being light speed. This is confirmed in Super when we're supposed to be impressed about the Beerus knock off (forget his name, the guy from Jiren's universe) being light speed yet he keeps up with Gohan just fine. Gohan at this point was massively more powerful than even Buu who is massively more powerful than Freeza. There is a massive gap from speed of sound and light speed. He's definitely somewhere in that middle bit. He is definitely not faster than Madara at this point who actually is light speed according to the data books.
Him being able to kill them in a single hit doesn't matter because he won't land one. It isn't out of character for him to start with a death beam, but it won't land and it isn't stopping Madara from just ending him with a genjutsu or any of the characters who have been shown to absorb chakra based attacks just absorbing it.
The in character thing matters because it is why Freeza loses. Were he not in character then you could make an argument for him releasing too much energy for the team to absorb and blowing them to pieces. In character he doesn't do any of that right off the bat. He has his childish tantrum first. He dies before his tantrum starts because the shinobi don't screw around.
@mygod000: You are incorrect about him being light speed. This is confirmed in Super when we're supposed to be impressed about the Beerus knock off (forget his name, the guy from Jiren's universe) being light speed yet he keeps up with Gohan just fine. Gohan at this point was massively more powerful than even Buu who is massively more powerful than Freeza. There is a massive gap from speed of sound and light speed. He's definitely somewhere in that middle bit. He is definitely not faster than Madara at this point who actually is light speed according to the data books.
Him being able to kill them in a single hit doesn't matter because he won't land one. It isn't out of character for him to start with a death beam, but it won't land and it isn't stopping Madara from just ending him with a genjutsu or any of the characters who have been shown to absorb chakra based attacks just absorbing it.
The in character thing matters because it is why Freeza loses. Were he not in character then you could make an argument for him releasing too much energy for the team to absorb and blowing them to pieces. In character he doesn't do any of that right off the bat. He has his childish tantrum first. He dies before his tantrum starts because the shinobi don't screw around.
It never said he was light speed, it said he was trained to move 1000x the speed of light during his training. that was long ago when Dispo was first started out buddy, if you are using that to downplay you are sad individual.
DBZ has been Light speed ever since the Saiyan Saga where Piccolo blasted the moon in less then a few seconds and by Virtue of being faster than their Ki blasts.
but since you like to talk about that, Let talk about Sakura who could our run Kaguya then.
@wabubub: “You are incorrect about him being light speed. This is confirmed in Super when we're supposed to be impressed about the Beerus knock off (forget his name, the guy from Jiren's universe) being light speed yet he keeps up with Gohan just fine. Gohan at this point was massively more powerful than even Buu who is massively more powerful than Freeza. There is a massive gap from speed of sound and light speed. He's definitely somewhere in that middle bit. He is definitely not faster than Madara at this point who actually is light speed according to the data books.“
Are you actually serious with this amount of lowballing? Piccolo shot a blast at the moon in about 8 seconds( I’m saying this from memory alone) and other characters dodge ki blast casually from each other.
Hell if I remember correct Frieza shot a death beam at vegeta and piccolo said himself it looked like a flash of light.( this is going from remember so don’t take this as fact. If you want me to prove it however I will search it up)
“Him being able to kill them in a single hit doesn't matter because he won't land one. “
Incorrect. Piccolo who is massively slower than frieza Is at least relative to the speed of light. Frieza should be massively faster.
“It isn't out of character for him to start with a death beam, but it won't land and it isn't stopping Madara from just ending him with a genjutsu”
1. A death beam will land and 2. When has madara ever opened up with a genjutsu? Madara very rarely if not never uses a genjutsu. him being bloodlusted does not change that.
“or any of the characters who have been shown to absorb chakra based attacks just absorbing it.”
Bc one you would have to prove they can absorb energy that is massively more powerful than them and two chakra and ki are not the same thing.
Doesn’t nature energy which they can’t absorb have more in common with ki than chakra?
-No DBZ character is “confirmed” light speed either.
-There is no proof Piccolo’s moon beam was light speed
-All speed feats actually contradict them being FTL
-Piccolo said Frieza’s death beam was so fast it looked like a flash of light, so clearly the speed of light is faster than what Namek Piccolo can track considering he wouldn’t compare something fast to something slower than him.
@lilgodperv: Frieza’s durability is really good, but in his first form his speed really isn’t better than this team. At the very least their reaction speed is good enough to keep up.
@motorzookeeper: quad mach to relativistic depending on the character or the attack. Frieza’s death beams might be light speed. If they are, final form Frieza and Goku could be argued as FTL.
Juudara the only one that’s smart here he could just tell the team BFR is their best option and GG. This would only work if Frieza was in same mind set as when facing Nail where he just tanked n played around with the latters attacks.
Delta has hax that can one shot. Obito & Madara have Regen & hax that can one shot. Kaguya has regen & Hax that can one shot. Merged Momoshiki is above Kaguya. Jigen is above Momoshiki. all the above are way faster than Raikage & Bee who are stated to be almost as fast as light, which means they will have no problem getting their Hax off.
Toneri aside, Freiza would have trouble beating any single person here. all of them together is a spite match. Team Curbstomps. bad.
@mygod000: You are incorrect about him being light speed. This is confirmed in Super when we're supposed to be impressed about the Beerus knock off (forget his name, the guy from Jiren's universe) being light speed yet he keeps up with Gohan just fine. Gohan at this point was massively more powerful than even Buu who is massively more powerful than Freeza. There is a massive gap from speed of sound and light speed. He's definitely somewhere in that middle bit. He is definitely not faster than Madara at this point who actually is light speed according to the data books.
Him being able to kill them in a single hit doesn't matter because he won't land one. It isn't out of character for him to start with a death beam, but it won't land and it isn't stopping Madara from just ending him with a genjutsu or any of the characters who have been shown to absorb chakra based attacks just absorbing it.
The in character thing matters because it is why Freeza loses. Were he not in character then you could make an argument for him releasing too much energy for the team to absorb and blowing them to pieces. In character he doesn't do any of that right off the bat. He has his childish tantrum first. He dies before his tantrum starts because the shinobi don't screw around.
That episode wasn’t canon mate, in the manga Dyspo’s speed isn’t stated, and yes I’m the guy that’s going around fixing the rumour on CV that the anime came out first. Do your research the manga was out first then the anime.
Second, Captain Ginyu’s body swap attack was stated to be light. Don’t bother saying it isn’t light the daizenshuj confirms it and questioning it is the same as questioning the light fang.
Namek characters are FTL and Frieza would paralyse and oneshot all of them.
@motorzookeeper: quad mach to relativistic depending on the character or the attack. Frieza’s death beams might be light speed. If they are, final form Frieza and Goku could be argued as FTL.
Not true at all as I said to the last guy the daizenshuu, states that the body swap techniques begins with light touching someone. Even a near Goku could throw a frog faster than that beam. I don’t make the daizenshuu that Akira Toriyama but Namek saga is were everyone got a speed amp, there’s even plenty of instances Goku caught a ki attack from frieza and threw it and it would go hit another planet just confirming that Goku and others are FTL.
You're right, Frieza isn't Star Level at this point
Look mate your wrong, as I said already that episode wasn’t canon, someone of CV has been going around saying the anime came first. Do your research, the manga came out before the anime. And in the manga SS Goku could react to Dyspo and even worse Frieza knocked him out of bounds. Also he’s speed isn’t stated in the manga. Frieza isn’t star level is fair I guess, it can be argued using actual calculations but I won’t subject you to that.
how is literally anyone before late dbs( and even then its faulty) LS?
2) first form Frieza isn't a star buster
Another confused soul. Look mate the anime isn’t canon to the manga. The manga came out despite common belief. Futhermore Goku has FTL feats in the Namek saga like catching Frieza’s attack and throwing the attack only for it to hit another planet seconds later which is MFTL but let’s say its FTL to make the naruto fans feel better.
The star level thing I do agree with to a degree it could be argued
@mbatz: Akira doesn’t make the daizenshuu, he just helped with parts and approved it. And a frog can’t survive moving at light speed, it would have disintegrated.
@mbatz: Akita doesn’t make the daizenshuu, he just helped with parts and approved it. And a frog can’t survive moving at light speed, it was have disintegrated.
Regardless the daizenshuu is canon, it’s the equivalent of a naruto guidebook. I mean do you actually thing the light fang is LS using calculations. Hell no I did the calculations myself from the time it left to the time it hit naruto’s staff and the distance travelled. But I understand that guidebooks take precedents over calculations, it‘s not like the author can portray everything he wants to portray. The same can be said here, manga physic, I already know a frog cant go LS in real life but this is manga and has to be accepted.
Captain Ginyu body change being stated to be LS despite a healthy Goku not being able to react to it then later a injured Goku being able to throw a frog before it hits Vegeta is hilarious
@animefreak1: you're one to talk, you're wholeheartedly biased against dragon ball.
Anyways
I wouldn’t say animefreak1 is biased, he’s more so subconsciously favouring Naruto whilst being heavily conceited and I do that from time to time, and that’s why I try my best to put myself in my opponents shows. The issue with this debate is Frieza with a scouter would sense low power levels from the team and immediately oneshot them without entertaining himself much or he might just fly past them and if They tried to give chase he’d think they were preventing him from getting the DB’s which you don’t want to do and he’d just paralyse and nuke them.
Captain Ginyu body change being stated to be LS despite a healthy Goku not being able to react to it then later a injured Goku being able to throw a frog before it hits Vegeta is hilarious
It’s called plot combined with Goku’s own shortcomings. Goku when he was first hit with the body swap attack might have felt an incredibly low power level and thought to himself what is he trying to pull. That‘s just speculation but the most likely scenario since the body swap doesn’t seem to give off a harmful reading to those who can sense ki mainly Goku and Vegeta. Either way like I said I don’t make the daizenshuu, questioning it is like questioning the naruto data book. Like I said to another person, “I mean do you actually thing the light fang is LS using calculations. Hell no I did the calculations myself from the time it left to the time it hit naruto’s staff and the distance travelled. But I understand that guidebooks take precedents over calculations”.
@narutoisplanetlevel: to shorten what I’m saying we don’t get to pick and chose what is right and wrong in the databooks of these verses. What the data book says has to be taken literally, especially if one fandom is going accept an outlier like Naruto dodging the light fang using an incredibly short burst of speed, now the Naruto fandom says Naruto is untouchable even though the feat was a short burst of speed and not nearly as consistent as dodging relativistic ki blasts that light speed body swap and Frieza beams.
@narutoisplanetlevel: to shorten what I’m saying we don’t get to pick and chose what is right and wrong in the databooks of these verses. What the data book says has to be taken literally, especially if one fandom is going accept an outlier like Naruto dodging the light fang using an incredibly short burst of speed, now the Naruto fandom says Naruto is untouchable even though the feat was a short burst of speed and not nearly as consistent as dodging relativistic ki blasts that light speed body swap and Frieza beams.
No what the databook says IS NOT always fact. We as fans can pick and choose what is and what isn’t if it contradicts the power setting for the story. Haku is said to be light speed in Naruto databook. Do we take that as legit cus the databooks says so ? Use your brain dude.
King piccolo in databook is stated to only have the power of a nuclear bomb. Despite him being able to casually wipe out half of a city and one shot in later on.
Now I need your full eyed attention on this one cus this is the super debunk:
If Ginyu body change was lightspeed WHYYY was a injured Goku in captain Ginyu body able to fly in front of it before it hit Vegeta ? Despite Goku having a hard time even flying in Ginyu body. A injured body at that.
if Ginyu body change was light speed why was Goku able to throw a frog off the ground in front of the beam ? Goku is broken and bruised at this point and can hardly move but with the little power he had left he was able to throw a frog before the “light speed beam” hit Vegeta. Are you implying broken and bruised Goku that can’t move has a throwing force speed of LS ? Lmfao dude how old are you man seriously ?
So now that I’ve finished attack people, what has the community learned today
1. The dragon ball super manga was put before the anime meaning the manga is canon and the Dyspo episode isn’t canon.
2. Namek saga characters are FTL, this shouldn’t be a surprise since Saiyan saga characters are casual relativistic. They scale from people who have dodged LS attacks that include Body swap attack, Frieza’s death beams and Frieza’s supernova attack which was thrown by Goku and hit planets which is actually MFTL.
@narutoisplanetlevel: to shorten what I’m saying we don’t get to pick and chose what is right and wrong in the databooks of these verses. What the data book says has to be taken literally, especially if one fandom is going accept an outlier like Naruto dodging the light fang using an incredibly short burst of speed, now the Naruto fandom says Naruto is untouchable even though the feat was a short burst of speed and not nearly as consistent as dodging relativistic ki blasts that light speed body swap and Frieza beams.
No what the databook says IS NOT always fact. We as fans can pick and choose what is and what isn’t if it contradicts the power setting for the story. Haku is said to be light speed in Naruto databook. Do we take that as legit cus the databooks says so ? Use your brain dude.
King piccolo in databook is stated to only have the power of a nuclear bomb. Despite him being able to casually wipe out half of a city and one shot in later on.
Now I need your full eyed attention on this one cus this is the super debunk:
If Ginyu body change was lightspeed WHYYY was a injured Goku in captain Ginyu body able to fly in front of it before it hit Vegeta ? Despite Goku having a hard time even flying in Ginyu body. A injured body at that.
if Ginyu body change was light speed why was Goku able to throw a frog off the ground in front of the beam ? Goku is broken and bruised at this point and can hardly move but with the little power he had left he was able to throw a frog before the “light speed beam” hit Vegeta. Are you implying broken and bruised Goku that can’t move has a throwing force speed of LS ? Lmfao dude how old are you man seriously ?
Your statement is quite easily debunked I thought I already explained it to you.
Like I said the body swap beam that was fired at Goku and vegeta was not perceived as harmful to goku and vegeta.
Do you think Goku would allow the beam to touch him if he knew the effects of what it might do to him. The answer is no.
Thats why your own scans even prove me right. The last scan of your post. Post 96 shows Vegeta rushing in head first into the body swap attack proving that the attack was not being percieved by Goku or Vegeta as harmful.
Goku didnt dodge the beam, for the same reason Vegeta didn’t dodge and dice head first into the beam. Because of a simple reason it wasn’t perceived as harmful.
When Goku was body swapped with Ginyu, since ki is a combination of body, souls and spirit, whilst he may have had a different body and a different one, he’s power level wouldve risen since he had the stronger soul and spirit and hence the higher power level which is why Ginyu wanted to swap with Goku becsure he had a higher power level but it dropped after the body switch and goku explained it was because that was he’s body.
Goku would be argubly stronger in Ginyu’s body then Ginyu would be in he’s own. Anyways to clear this up, whether you like it or not Goku did throw the frog before the attack landed. And for all we know Goku might’ve been levitating it since that’s how he flies or did you not read dragon ball and how turns master taught goku to levitate objects which in tern taught goku how to fly, this is the same Goku that before namek saga would benchpress pyramids with he’s mind.
Don’t worry I’ll get th feat for you.
Ladies and Gentlemen, boys, girls narutoisplanetlevel, it’s been a pleasure.
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