Firelord (standard) vs Ikaris (standard)
Battle takes place in the Himalayas, starting at 100'. No speed blitz. No morals.
Who wins, and why?
Firelord vs Ikaris
I don't have any scans of him healing. But this is the standard Marvel description of how Eternals' durability and healing work: "Should Ikaris be injured somehow, he could regenerate any injured or missing tissue. An Eternal can only die through an injury that disperses a significant portion of his body molecules, or if he is injured after his mental control over his body is somehow broken." To me, that implies that he can basically recreate missing tissue through an act of will--essentially an extension of his mental powers.
1.No, 50 tons is his base strength. He can boost himself as much as Surfer can IMO. Surfer normally wouldn't be able to hold Hulk just by strength. Firelord on the other hand fought 3 times with Thor and once with Hercules. Thor wasn't able to defeat him (in last fight Thor said that it is pointless since it can't in different way than stalemate), Herc was even losing side and Firelord didn't use his fire power against him. 2.Ikaris HF is also limited. In other words - what are his best HF feats, that You belive that he can survive Firelord's assaults? I've seen most of his best battles and I've didn't saw anything that would suggest that he can heal like Wolverine for example. Yet, durability would be still more important thing, since Wolverine will be one-shoted by Firelord. 3.Can You tell when he used his TK? I would try to find it. 4.So illusions, You say... It depends, Firelord can track energy, so he would know where greater energy has it place, therefore - Ikaris. Personally? I belive that Firelord is considered as a weak Herald only because he lost in historic PIS with Spider-Man. Someone who can 3 times fight with Thor and not be defeated (similar about Hercules) should be considered as a powerhouse.
Here are a few scans, it's what I've got. The first one compiles a few panels over multiple pages from the Evolutionary War storyline. The Eternals captured Surfer and Super Skrull, who escaped only with effort and then fought them (4 Eternals plus Karkas vs Surfer and Super Skrull). It was more or less an even fight. In it, Ikaris shot Surfer a few times; the first one he shrugged off, the others seemed to have more effect. Since I think, and I assume you would agree, that Surfer has more durability than Firelord, I think this is a testament to the fact that Ikaris' attacks could hurt Firelord at least somewhat. Of course this battle basically makes it 2 to 1 odds (since Karkas is not a serious contender) for the Eternals to be equal to Surfer, but on the other hand Surfer is more powerful than Firelord and the Eternals are also fighting to keep him prisoner, not to kill him. (I don't think Firelord is a "weak" herald, just more limited than ones like Surfer and Stardust.)
In the next scan, from the original Eternals series, Ikaris shows off his TK, which he is using to fly their plane--so it's actually more powerful than I thought. He then turns off the illusion he used to cover his real costume, and then flies himself, which for Eternals is done through TK--so he is simultaneously flying himself and the plane.
In the next scan, he puts his girlfriend to sleep with an eye bolt.
In the next scan, he tanks a "potent" blast from a Deviant ship's "z-ray" which could "kill a hundred humans." He then evades their other attacks and (on the next page), he is hurt but says that while "Eternals can be hurt--but they cannot die." He then manages to create an illusion to cloak their plane against both visual sight and the Deviant ship's electronic gear. So I think his illusions can be pretty good. I don't really think Firelord's energy-tracing is going to do a great job following him, especially if he doesn't know that he's creating illusions in the first place.
Finally, Ikaris builds a massive battleship entirely through his TK. I was wrong about this earlier; he does use the machine to help, but it seems like it's just that the machine has the master design plan for the ship, and Ikaris is using it to follow its directions, not to actually move the stuff. So I think his TK is actually pretty powerful and refined.
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I take your points about Firelord fighting Thor seriously, but honestly in my opinion that sounds surprising. Any scans of any of those fights?
1.It all depends on level of this power. He isn't indestructible.@czarny_samael666 said:
I don't have any scans of him healing. But this is the standard Marvel description of how Eternals' durability and healing work: "Should Ikaris be injured somehow, he could regenerate any injured or missing tissue. An Eternal can only die through an injury that disperses a significant portion of his body molecules, or if he is injured after his mental control over his body is somehow broken." To me, that implies that he can basically recreate missing tissue through an act of will--essentially an extension of his mental powers.
1.No, 50 tons is his base strength. He can boost himself as much as Surfer can IMO. Surfer normally wouldn't be able to hold Hulk just by strength. Firelord on the other hand fought 3 times with Thor and once with Hercules. Thor wasn't able to defeat him (in last fight Thor said that it is pointless since it can't in different way than stalemate), Herc was even losing side and Firelord didn't use his fire power against him. 2.Ikaris HF is also limited. In other words - what are his best HF feats, that You belive that he can survive Firelord's assaults? I've seen most of his best battles and I've didn't saw anything that would suggest that he can heal like Wolverine for example. Yet, durability would be still more important thing, since Wolverine will be one-shoted by Firelord. 3.Can You tell when he used his TK? I would try to find it. 4.So illusions, You say... It depends, Firelord can track energy, so he would know where greater energy has it place, therefore - Ikaris. Personally? I belive that Firelord is considered as a weak Herald only because he lost in historic PIS with Spider-Man. Someone who can 3 times fight with Thor and not be defeated (similar about Hercules) should be considered as a powerhouse.
@Owie said:
2.There is nothing that suggest tat Ikaris is even close to Surfer in anything.Here are a few scans, it's what I've got. The first one compiles a few panels over multiple pages from the Evolutionary War storyline. The Eternals captured Surfer and Super Skrull, who escaped only with effort and then fought them (4 Eternals plus Karkas vs Surfer and Super Skrull). It was more or less an even fight. In it, Ikaris shot Surfer a few times; the first one he shrugged off, the others seemed to have more effect. Since I think, and I assume you would agree, that Surfer has more durability than Firelord, I think this is a testament to the fact that Ikaris' attacks could hurt Firelord at least somewhat. Of course this battle basically makes it 2 to 1 odds (since Karkas is not a serious contender) for the Eternals to be equal to Surfer, but on the other hand Surfer is more powerful than Firelord and the Eternals are also fighting to keep him prisoner, not to kill him. (I don't think Firelord is a "weak" herald, just more limited than ones like Surfer and Stardust.)
In this one scan we see that Surfer can easily stop Ikaris' shot. Next, direct one, only slowed him down. Then, he was hold by Karkas, what let Ikaris to attack Surfer without his answer. Still, we don't see an end of this battle.
I would consider Ikaris as a good opponent for Surfer, if he would tank Surfer's shots, that he would fight alone and if his HV would actually hurt Surfer.
Here few Firelord's feats:
Firelord vs. Hercules (and Thor - first small encounter)
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Firelord vs. Thor (second fight):
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Firelord's typical enemies are people much more powerfull than Ikaris, like Thor, Phoenix, Morg, Ravenous or Surfer.
I also don't think that Ikaris would be able to take out group of X-Men by himself (including tanking combined shot from Havok and Polaris).
@Owie said:
3.I would rather say that controls rudder-bar then whole plane.
In the next scan, from the original Eternals series, Ikaris shows off his TK, which he is using to fly their plane--so it's actually more powerful than I thought. He then turns off the illusion he used to cover his real costume, and then flies himself, which for Eternals is done through TK--so he is simultaneously flying himself and the plane.
In the next scan, he puts his girlfriend to sleep with an eye bolt.
In the next scan, he tanks a "potent" blast from a Deviant ship's "z-ray" which could "kill a hundred humans." He then evades their other attacks and (on the next page), he is hurt but says that while "Eternals can be hurt--but they cannot die." He then manages to create an illusion to cloak their plane against both visual sight and the Deviant ship's electronic gear. So I think his illusions can be pretty good. I don't really think Firelord's energy-tracing is going to do a great job following him, especially if he doesn't know that he's creating illusions in the first place.
Finally, Ikaris builds a massive battleship entirely through his TK. I was wrong about this earlier; he does use the machine to help, but it seems like it's just that the machine has the master design plan for the ship, and Ikaris is using it to follow its directions, not to actually move the stuff. So I think his TK is actually pretty powerful and refined.
4.I don't belive that it would work on any stronger mind. Let alone Firelord's
5.Lava-thing actually impresed me more ;)
6.They can die - it was proven in other Eternals apperances. They just can rebirth. Which also isn't that easy, since they need a machine for that.
7.Firelord will see Ikaris in one place and then in the other place. Yet, he will not "feel" him there. For example, Firelord was once able to understand that Surfer only fakes his death.
8.Sorry, I don't see a part of him using his powers there.
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