Fire Nation vs The Red Lotus

TEAM 1

-Ozai

-Azula

-Combustion Man

-Zhao

TEAM 2

-Zaheer

-Ming Hua

-P'Li

-Ghazan

Ozai vs Zaheer

Azula vs Ming Hua

Combustion Man vs P'Li

Zhao vs Ghazan

Zaheer has his staff all rounds.

ROUND 1

Location: Fire Nation Royal Palace

Morals: On

Bloodlust: Off

ROUND 2

Location: Eastern Air Temple

Morals: On

Bloodlust: Off

ROUND 3

Location: Wan Shi Tong Library

Morals: Off

Bloodlust: On

KO or Death to Win

Ozai has no feats without Sozins comet

Zhao loses everything, the rest are interesting fights

@norrinboltagonprime21: He did shoot lightning at Zuko after the eclipse, and Iroh said Ozai was a more powerful bender than him. I agree though this might as well be under Sozin's comet.

Now you're just getting technical

@norrinboltagonprime21: I mean... he's the firelord. There's not much else to say. Yeah he's featless, but clearly he was an extremely powerful bender. Iron even said it himself.

@norrinboltagonprime21: He was pretty much stated to be the strongest fire bender in the world, with the possible exception of Iroh (Combustion Man could be a problem too).

@arcus: no, iroh was prolly the strongest fire bender at the time besides maybe jo-jo, but otherwise it'd be iroh, firelord/jo-jo, azula, combustion man, zuko, etc.

@killerwasp: Iroh said he wasn't even sure he could beat him

Team 1 wins. Ozai electrocutes Zaheer immediately.

Azula overpowers/manipulates Ming-Hua, or electrocutes her.

Tough fight, so I'd say a draw.

You might as well give Ghazan a by here.

Team 1 wins the majority. Ozai and Azula are simply too good. Give them Iroh or Zuko, and the battle tips in their favor completely.

@arcus: I wouldn't say that doesn't would count cause aang was suppose to beat the fire lord before the comet and yet he still ended up beating him. Not saying ozai I weak just i think iroh could win majority

Aang only won because of the Avatar State, before that Aang was losing pretty badly

Fire Nation

@arcus: to be fair to Aang, Ozai did have Sozin's comet buff. Without it who knows, maybe Aang could've won

@martinceld: so did Aang, but you're right in that the comet made fire the strongest element, and it was Aang's weakest element

@arcus: even then i'd say he wasn't even trying to fight the fire lord he didnt even want to the whole time, he was kinda forced into it. However, things obviously took a turn for the worse for aang before he decided to not give a crap and go all out to which the fire lord was losing very handily. As i said i just feel iroh could take a majority, but your prolly right the fire lord would prolly be more powerful than him.

@arcus: aang didnt get the boost from that at all, it was from the avatar state.

@arcus: ya. also, aang could've ended the fight if he followed through with the lightning redirection at ozai but ofcourse he didn't do it. If that was in LOK ozai would've gotten a lightning blast to the face lol

@killerwasp: the comet boosted every firebender, including Aang

@arcus: no it didnt boost aang lol, it was for fire benders aang was enhanced by AS not the comet, he was not a natural fire bender he was a air bender, if it was enhanced then why didn't he just spam fire? and why was his fire weaker? just re watch the last fight u will see that before he entered the AS when he used fire if he did it was not enhanced at all.

@killerwasp: It enhanced all firebending. Aang used firebending to take down Ozai's airship and in the early part of his fight. He didn't spam fire bending because it was his worst element. You need to rewatch the fight

@killerwasp: I believe arcus is right and Aang's fire bending was enhanced. His first shot at Ozai's airship was definitely the size of an amped fire blast. He did't just spam fire because it is the element he is least familiar with and most uncomfortable using, and honestly there is no way the writers would have him use firebending exclusively in his final boss fight lol. Also, even if you argue that it only boost fire benders, Aang is a fire bender too. Korra referred to herself as a fire bender(as well as earth and water bender) when she met mako and bolin and so Aang is too. You can't argue with cannon :)

@arcus: @martinceld: actually looking upon it again you're right about his fire bending being amped

We can't tell that for sure. Aang raw power was pretty crazy already. He was overcoming ozai's fireblasts with his water and air..

@princearagorn1: Why wouldn't it have boosted his power?

@killerwasp: ya its a shame he didn't capitalize on fire bending since it was amped, or focus on air bending since its his best and has proven to be very effective against fire benders time and time again. He wastes energy on earth bending vs high tier fire benders tbh

@martinceld: lol yeah, my guess would he didnt use fire cause hes already facing a master, but still i'd use air any day of the week for that counter.

@martinceld: I can understand not using firebending since he had the least skill in it but yeah, airbending might have been better. At least we got to see him do some cool stuff with earthbending

@arcus: @killerwasp: ye air would be my choice as well and yeah it was nice to see aang show a bunch of cool earth bending. I feel bad for water bending though its practically non-existent in his boss fights except for the 1-2 obligatory water attacks from the conveniently placed pond or waterfall in the battlefield LOL. Same for Korra actually

@martinceld: Yeah that's true, lol, problem with warerbending is that most of these fights don't take place near enough water for water to be significantly useful. That was one of the good things about Korra Season 2, we got to see a lot of waterbending

@arcus: true! LOK really showed how powerful water benders could be with season 1 focusing on godly blood bending and season 2 focusing on the water tribes and Unalaq

@martinceld: Very true, I wish we had seen more water bending in ATLA, especially from Aang

It did, actually. What I'm saying it didn't seem like he was boosted. Considering his raw power in bending was always crazy.

The Fire Nation is undefeatable! Ozai stomps Zaheer badly, Combustion Man stomps P'li, Azula eventually electrocutes Ming-Hua, Zhao beats Ghazan with not too much difficulty.

Yeah, this. I want to debate this, see what reasons you have for thinking Zhao can take someone like Ghazan

Round 1 Fire Nation Team wins because the advantage of Fire and maybe the comet

Round 2 Red Lotus team wins because of Zaheer air bending and flying abilities and he can suck air from there lungs and his team should have a better advantage there

Round 3 Fire Nation team with Ozai and Azula are good

@arcus1 said:

lol Now I see how this one "interesting" CaV came up
Just digging old topics and found this!!

On-topic:

Ozai vs Zaheer - But it's not easy cause Zaheer is hard to tag
Azula vs Ming Hua - Azula for a slight majority but it's with extreme difficulty and because of slight advantage
Combustion Man vs P'Li - Depends on the distance, I'm going with P'Li in a newtral distance since she can actually dodge attacks rather than sitting waiting to endure attacks
Zhao vs Ghazan - lol

The Red Lotus takes it pretty easily because of the last matchup. Putting the most dangerous member (Ghazan) against the biggest weak link, is all needed for the lotus. Ghazan can then tag team either Ozai or Azula and take them out one by one.

P.S. I made a thread like this without knowing that this one existed, but I put in Mai and Ty Lee instead of Zhao, and had free matchups

@anthp2000:

Ozai vs Zaheer - But it's not easy cause Zaheer is hard to tag

First of all, this is not an argument for Zaheer. I'd simply like your opinion.

Do you think Ozai is particularly fast or agile?

He is touted as the strongest firebender - which in Fire Nation terms, probably means that he can produce the biggest blasts. He was able to move very fast using the fire-jets, but I'm guessing that's not something he can do without the comet.

His movements and reflexes apart from firebending weren't that impressive at all. He couldn't react to Zuko's redirection and would've been taken out by Aang's. And he hasn't shown much in way of connecting his attacks quickly. If that's the case, it should be possible for characters with superior agility - Aang, Azula, Ming-Hua (with enough water), Tenzin and yes, even Zaheer - to take him as long as they have enough power.

@marty2187: I agree with you. I could dare to say that Ozai had overall bad reflexes, considering that he could be killed with redirection (which took time enough for someone with good reflexes to see).
I also totally agree with you. He is said to be the most powerful firebender but that's it. Bigger blasts and better lightning, not something unbeatable. And tbh, the new versions of his children in the comics are contenting with him in firebending IMO.
And yes. All the people you listed can take him (now tbh, I don't think Zaheer can, but he is a good matchup). His physicals other than endurance and maybe strength are kinda pathetic..He isn't shown to be particularly agile and his reflexes were as we both agreed, just bad overall.

I see the RL taking a clear majority due to Zhao being a weaklink. The FN can win a few due to getting lucky with lightning or combustion.