Final Form Ultron vs Wally West

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JesusIzNotReal

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#1  Edited By JesusIzNotReal

No Caption Provided

Both fighters are bloodlusted

No morals

No prep for either character

Fight takes place on an indesctrubile planet

Fighters start 500 meters from each other

Win by death, K.O, etc

Who dies?

No Caption Provided

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green_skaar

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FFU

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deactivated-5ba149167b2c0

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Stalemate?

Flash cant hope to do anything to Ultron aside from some kind of BFR. Ultron shouldn't be able to hit Flash unless Flash lets him.

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Amendment50

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#4  Edited By Amendment50

Ultron beats him

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ANTHP2000

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Ultron beats him

The mods won't show mercy next time.

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Superhero24

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Ultron for sure.

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Amendment50

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@anthp2000: i actually censored myself, don't tell anyone

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Yarva

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Wally should be able to phase out Ultrons electronics and shut him off.

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Prezilla

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Wally

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BlackGoku

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Ultron has no answer for Speed Steal or atomization. Why are people saying he wins? Lol.

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deactivated-5b728068f211c

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@blackgoku: Why would he need speed? He could literally stand there and tank Wally's punches.

OT:Stalemate

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Yarva

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@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

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BlackGoku

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@superentity: Atomaztion? Any feats of Ultron resisting atomization? Speed Steal takes momentum away, Ultron would be a living statue for eternity. That's a win.

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deactivated-5ba149167b2c0

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@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

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Yarva

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@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

Wally isn't going to manipulate the structure of his molecules. I said he's going to phase his insides, like his circuitry, out.

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SupremeGeneration

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@yarva said:
@deathbyants said:
@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

Wally isn't going to manipulate the structure of his molecules. I said he's going to phase his insides, like his circuitry, out.

They can self-repair and he has phasing countermeasures because of Vision. IIRC it actually caused Vision pain.

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deactivated-5b728068f211c

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@blackgoku: @yarva: I was saying speed steal wont matter. Phasing however could work.

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deactivated-5ba149167b2c0

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@superentity: Atomaztion? Any feats of Ultron resisting atomization? Speed Steal takes momentum away, Ultron would be a living statue for eternity. That's a win.

Spectrum, Quasar, Silver Surfer, Doom, Sentry, Terrax etc.. all have no effect.
Spectrum, Quasar, Silver Surfer, Doom, Sentry, Terrax etc.. all have no effect.

Maybe speed steal would work. I doubt it.

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crest

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#19  Edited By crest

t

@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

this also hes a tecnopath so its not just one body flash is fighting. that said except tecnopath options (you know take over the world/ universe to kill flash stuff) hes not going to tag wally. tho i guess there is a chance wally gets get so tired he slows down enough for enceplo ray or something. perhaps he waits for flash to die of old age its not like he cant do just that

anyways stalemate is the best way to describe it.

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Yarva

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@yarva said:
@deathbyants said:
@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

Wally isn't going to manipulate the structure of his molecules. I said he's going to phase his insides, like his circuitry, out.

They can self-repair and he has phasing countermeasures because of Vision. IIRC it actually caused Vision pain.

Vision doesn't phase like Wally. Also Ultron isn't fast enough to react to Wally and counter measure.

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green_skaar

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I swear he overcame that at one point since Vision does that. Regardless he doesn't even need a body.

@blackgoku: @yarva: I was saying speed steal wont matter. Phasing however could work.

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BlackGoku

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@supremegeneration: Vision and Flash phase differently.

That scan didn't show him resisting atomaztion.

Speed Steal is also still an option as well.

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SupremeGeneration

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@yarva said:
@supremegeneration said:
@yarva said:
@deathbyants said:
@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

Wally isn't going to manipulate the structure of his molecules. I said he's going to phase his insides, like his circuitry, out.

They can self-repair and he has phasing countermeasures because of Vision. IIRC it actually caused Vision pain.

Vision doesn't phase like Wally. Also Ultron isn't fast enough to react to Wally and counter measure.

Oh look, same argument. Doesn't matter, they're both going inside his body. His countermeasures are passive, it's like internal forcefields or something like that.

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SupremeGeneration

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@supremegeneration: Vision and Flash phase differently.

BS argument, they're still going inside him.

That scan didn't show him resisting atomaztion.

I haven't posted any yet,

Speed Steal is also still an option as well.

Then what? He can't hurt him.

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deactivated-5ba149167b2c0

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@supremegeneration: Vision and Flash phase differently.

That scan didn't show him resisting atomaztion.

Speed Steal is also still an option as well.

Considering there are multiple Matter Manipulators attacking him I think we can safely assume he cant be atomized.

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Yarva

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@yarva said:
@supremegeneration said:
@yarva said:
@deathbyants said:
@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

Wally isn't going to manipulate the structure of his molecules. I said he's going to phase his insides, like his circuitry, out.

They can self-repair and he has phasing countermeasures because of Vision. IIRC it actually caused Vision pain.

Vision doesn't phase like Wally. Also Ultron isn't fast enough to react to Wally and counter measure.

Oh look, same argument. Doesn't matter, they're both going inside his body. His countermeasures are passive, it's like internal forcefields or something like that.

Not sure what your argument is so I'll repost "Vision doesn't phase like Wally. Also Ultron isn't fast enough to react to Wally and counter measure."

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BlackGoku

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Turning Ultron into a living statue is a win.

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crest

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#28  Edited By crest

@blackgoku: so is using diffrent bodys and letting flash die of old age. after all hes not stoping ultron just delaying one of his bodys from acting.

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BlackGoku

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@crest: That made no sense. Speed Steal would work and it is a win.

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SupremeGeneration

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@yarva: Phasing type no matter, they go inside regardless.

Countermeasures not activated manually, they on at all times.

Clear as day.

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crest

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@blackgoku: hes a tecnopath what does stopping one of his physical bodys from moving do to stop ultron?

nevermind that it only lasts as long as wally is willing to stay there, and keep the speed steel going. the prime body of ultron outlasts the flash

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Yarva

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@yarva: Phasing type no matter, they go inside regardless.

Countermeasures not activated manually, they on at all times.

Clear as day.

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't understand. I'll try to explain why I disagree with your stance.

Phasing type no matter, they go inside regardless.

The phasing type does matter because one of you said that Ultron has a countermeasure for phasing because of Vision. We then explained to you that Vision and Wally don't phase in the same manner. So basically, Ultron has a countermeasure for something different than what Wally is going to do. Thats just for starters. Then we have to realize that Wally can complete an action millions of times faster than Vision.

Countermeasures not activated manually, they on at all times.

They can be on whenever they want, it's not going to matter because unless you can show that Ultron's countermeasure can out pace Wally, it's not going to matter.

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crest

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#33  Edited By crest

@yarva said:
@supremegeneration said:

@yarva: Phasing type no matter, they go inside regardless.

Countermeasures not activated manually, they on at all times.

Clear as day.

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't understand. I'll try to explain why I disagree with your stance.

Phasing type no matter, they go inside regardless.

The phasing type does matter because one of you said that Ultron has a countermeasure for phasing because of Vision. We then explained to you that Vision and Wally don't phase in the same manner. So basically, Ultron has a countermeasure for something different than what Wally is going to do. Thats just for starters. Then we have to realize that Wally can complete an action millions of times faster than Vision.

Countermeasures not activated manually, they on at all times.

They can be on whenever they want, it's not going to matter because unless you can show that Ultron's countermeasure can out pace Wally, it's not going to matter.

well no offence what your asking cant be done there is only one person as fast as the flash. so no ultron does not and will not have "feats" specificly against the flash

he does however have feats against phasing and moleculer manipulators. and yes vibrating his molecules is molecular manipulation i would like you to prove that wallys attack is so diffrent that others who have proven to be immune to phasing and molecular manipulation can be effected by wally.

keep in mind ultons defences are automatic with no proven speed cap so wall doing a suprise attack on someone who has to consciously react can still be argued

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BlackGoku

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@crest: What's stopping him from stopping them all?

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KrleAvenger

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#35  Edited By KrleAvenger

Ultron eventually one shots him. If Wally tries to phase through him, Wally is getting hit with electricity and that is one step closer to Ultron's utopia. GG.

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Yarva

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@crest said:
@yarva said:
@supremegeneration said:

@yarva: Phasing type no matter, they go inside regardless.

Countermeasures not activated manually, they on at all times.

Clear as day.

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't understand. I'll try to explain why I disagree with your stance.

Phasing type no matter, they go inside regardless.

The phasing type does matter because one of you said that Ultron has a countermeasure for phasing because of Vision. We then explained to you that Vision and Wally don't phase in the same manner. So basically, Ultron has a countermeasure for something different than what Wally is going to do. Thats just for starters. Then we have to realize that Wally can complete an action millions of times faster than Vision.

Countermeasures not activated manually, they on at all times.

They can be on whenever they want, it's not going to matter because unless you can show that Ultron's countermeasure can out pace Wally, it's not going to matter.

well no offence what your asking cant be done there is only one person as fast as the flash. so no ultron does not and will not have "feats" specificly against the flash

he does however have feats against phasing and moleculer manipulators. and yes vibrating his molecules is molecular manipulation i would like you to prove that wallys attack is so diffrent that others who have proven to be immune to phasing and molecular manipulation can be effected by wally.

Wally isn't manipulating Ultron's molecules. Why don't you guys know about Flash and his abilities?

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P00TY

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@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

Is there any evidence that those matter manipulators tried matter manipulation on Ultron? If so, when? If your answer is "why wouldn't they try that?" It's because the writers needed to tell a story. If they didn't actually try it. Then we cant say he's immune.

@crest said:

@blackgoku: so is using diffrent bodys and letting flash die of old age. after all hes not stoping ultron just delaying one of his bodys from acting.

Doesn't Ultron need energy to move to another body? Doesn't Ultrons energy have to MOVE to another body? If Wally stops his energy from moving then Ultron can't transfer his consiousness.

@yarva: Phasing type no matter, they go inside regardless.

Countermeasures not activated manually, they on at all times.

Clear as day.

Was that Final Form Ultron that had counter measures for phasing? We can't give abilities to every form unless that specific form showed that ability. Still, it's not automatic. When Vision phased Ultron, Ultron had to THINK to change into energy form. Flash can rip out his insides before Ultron can think.

Flash can steal energy
Flash can steal energy
No Caption Provided
Ultron has to THINK to become energy form
Ultron has to THINK to become energy form

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crest

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@yarva: hes manipulating his own molicules by vibrating the perfict speed to in effect become intagable. i know wallys powerset well. and yes i allow for comic book science to be enough to explain why he can also grab things inside without damage like other phasers would take (think kitty pride)

@pooty i dont dispute that flash can steal energy not one bit. thats showing to transform into energy. i do belive ulton has a other defences (molecular rearanger) not to mention most of his insides not something wally can break.

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Yarva

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@crest said:

@yarva: hes manipulating his own molicules by vibrating the perfict speed to in effect become intagable. i know wallys powerset well. and yes i allow for comic book science to be enough to explain why he can also grab things inside without damage like other phasers would take (think kitty pride)

@pooty i dont dispute that flash can steal energy not one bit. thats showing to transform into energy. i do belive ulton has a other defences (molecular rearanger) not to mention most of his insides not something wally can break.

Again, He's not manipulating Ultrons structure. All he's doing is he's vibrating his own molecules around an object. Also, Vision phases by changing his density, so Ultron has no way to countermeasure Wally's style of vibrating, nor does he have the ability to think and react to Wally's attack. So basically Ultron doesn't stand a chance of defending himself against this attack by Wally.

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crest

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@blackgoku: time and space. he can be anywere there is a computer chip. truth is ultron is kinda like the juggernaut or zarthos or doomsday at this point. you cannot physicly stop him only delay him. i dont i know why people keep thinking you can beat up a self aware block adamtum who also happens to be a computer viruse

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P00TY

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@crest:

If Wally steals the speed from his energy then how can ultron transfer his consiousness if his energy is frozen?

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crest

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#42  Edited By crest

@yarva: i know what hes doing, like i said noone else does what he can do so there is no specifice scan to prove defence. but there is plenty to say hes proboly good against it. also in effect there is no practical diff from changing the desity of your molicules to pass his shell and vibrating at the exact frequeny to pass his shell.

prove to me wally can effect people who have proven to be immune to phasing/moleculer manipulation. never mind that ultron had defences how about the fact wraping his fingers around secondary adamtium on the inside of ultron does not mean he can break it. or the fact ultron is not just one body.

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King_Majestros

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I love it. Flash fans trying to say that Flash's phasing and Vision's phasing don't have the same result. Hahah. Phasing is phasing. The purpose of phasing is to move one's molecules around another's. It doesn't matter how or what allows them to phase, since they're still phasing.

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crest

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#44  Edited By crest

@p00ty: well speed is not thought. i mean put it this way how many times has a telipath been frozen but could still use there telepithy

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P00TY

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No brain. No thinking. No transferring consiousness.

No Caption Provided

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crest

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@p00ty: except that is not vs someone who has proven defences agains phasing. and steeling speed is not stealing his thought wallys power has never ever been shown to work like that

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P00TY

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@crest said:

@p00ty: well speed is not thought. i mean put it this way how many times has a telipath been frozen but could still use there telepithy

I don't know. How many times? Who?

Regardless, Ultron is a machine. Energy needs to flow through his circuits for him to work. If Wally stops the energy from moving inside his body. What will happen to Ultron?

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P00TY

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@crest: Please show Ultron having counter measures against phasing. I have not seen it.

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deactivated-5ba149167b2c0

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@p00ty said:
@deathbyants said:
@yarva said:

@superentity: Why would Ultron survive Wally phasing his insides out?

Ultron fought against Molecular Manipulators and they had no effect on him. I don't see why Flash is an exception.

Is there any evidence that those matter manipulators tried matter manipulation on Ultron? If so, when? If your answer is "why wouldn't they try that?" It's because the writers needed to tell a story. If they didn't actually try it. Then we cant say he's immune.

There is no point to even debate that reasoning considering its mundane and based on an assumed technicality. If we were to debate every given possible technicality of this fight then I could present questions like:

  • Is there any evidence that Flash can phase through Vibranium/adamantium? Vibranium doesn't exist in the DCU. Well then we cant say that Flash can phase through Ultron.

We would go on forever debating pointless nuances despite there being more than enough information for us to make educated inferences. Writers shouldn't have to label or title every ray or beam on a panel given that they assume their readers can actually infer that the Matter manipulators would obviously be using their distinct powers instead of some foreign, new, unexplained power just for a couple of panels.

Also just to add. Ultron has survived as nothing but intangible consciousness before, so I doubt speed steal would have much of an effect of stomping him from transferring bodies.

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crest

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#50  Edited By crest

@p00ty: i have never seen his speed steal stop a electric current. i dont have scans but i know i have seen thought bubbles in comic books when flash speed steals. thoughts are electrical connections

almost every telipath i can think of at some point has been unable to move there body and had to use there mind.