Featherine Augustus vs Kami tenchi

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Tyraaaxza

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Poll Featherine Augustus vs Kami tenchi (33 votes)

Featherine 39%
Kami Tenchi 61%
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GangOrca

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Featherine isn't a true omnipotent so she loses, she's close to it though.

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amnotcharizard

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SCP-3812 solos

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Universenumber1

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Feats for Kami Tenchi? I'm sure Featherine is the closest to Omnipotent that you can get (no one dare mention the word "Suggs").

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noaleph

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#5  Edited By noaleph

Featherine has fought imaginary things that do not exist to her perspective so her feats are baseless and unquantifiable cannot be used by this board's standards. Kami Tenchi has affected cosmic beings tangible to his own existence and it is more real so I suppose he wins.

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BlazeKing22

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Toribot solos with omnivastance

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Gokuisthebest

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amnotcharizard

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@gokuisthebest: It's Overrated, but it's not that overrated, like uh, Naruto.

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Universenumber1

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Can someone ban this blaze person? He has alts accounts, keeps bringing old threads and only says:
"Goku stomps
"Large planet at best"
"Toribot Omnipotent"
God, one of the worst users.

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Gokuisthebest

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TypeIV

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@noaleph: Yeah no.

OT: Aurora rewrites his verse o not be shit.

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noaleph

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#12  Edited By noaleph

@typeiv said:

@noaleph: Yeah no.

OT: Aurora rewrites his verse o not be shit.

Aurora's best feats are just tearing apart some books and fighting things that do not exist in her perspective.

It's like saying Spiderman is multiversal because he can rewrite a book he wrote.

It has been explicitly stated that Umineko's story is just a fictional story inside a fictional story to Featherine in real numbers. All multiversal feats in Umineko are imaginary and thus in the end, amount to 0 or to a negative number. So Featherine scales to 0, as far as I'm concerned she is only street level.

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CyberBlades22

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If Kami Tenchi is omnipotent he wins

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TypeIV

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#14  Edited By TypeIV

@noaleph: There's a problem with your argument... These worlds below Aurora that she treats as fiction EXIST. That means they are not truly fiction in the most literal sense. Being truly fiction means said fictions would be truly non-existent entirely like how fiction is to us in real life, but no, these worlds actually exist. Aurora can simply control the narrative.

I do think though that it's unfair to assume what meta layer an entirely different fiction places in though, as that's pretty presumptuous. So I'd equalize the layers to be objective. Aurora still casually blinks the verse despite that though. They stand no chance against Truths and general narrative manipulation.

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noaleph

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#15  Edited By noaleph

@typeiv said:

@noaleph: There's a problem with your argument... These worlds below Aurora that she treats as fiction EXIST. That means they are not truly fiction in the most literal sense. Being truly fiction means said fictions would be truly non-existent entirely like how fiction is to us in real life, but no, these worlds actually exist. Aurora can simply control the narrative.

How can something that doesn't exist, exist? You are not making sense. It was explicitly stated that worlds hierarchy in Umineko amount to zero, as in, nothing and fictional over and over, and endless amounts of evidence proving this to be true all over the internet.

So if Tony Stark were able to create a virtual simulation computer with artificial intelligent virtual humans in it, he controls the narrative and is Multiversal?

@typeiv said:

@noaleph:

I do think though that it's unfair to assume what meta layer an entirely different fiction places in though, as that's pretty presumptuous. So I'd equalize the layers to be objective. Aurora still casually blinks the verse despite that though. They stand no chance against Truths and general narrative manipulation.

Lol!

Layers in Umineko are like wacky hierarchy of the set of real numbers, there are negative layers below the human world itself like layer -1, layer -2, layer -3 (layers that are somehow smaller than zero!) and it is stated that some part of it is somehow endlessly regressing down that line. Even regular humans are somehow Multiversal by your logic even though they are scaling to negative numbers.

Umineko's cosmology is one of the most unquantifiable pieces of work, that you can just as easily make an argument that everyone there are technically just a bunch of Dr. Strange level reality warpers reading a novel about other Dr. Strange level reality warpers and so on.

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TypeIV

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#16  Edited By TypeIV

@noaleph: How can something that doesn't exist, exist?

The worlds are real. Hell, they all fall under the same ladder created by and leading towards the one omnipotent Creator. That can't be if they are truly non-existent. If these lower worlds truly do not exist, then why can entities ascend to higher layers, with Beatrice even temporarily reaching Aurora's level with her true potential when creating her magic system? Why can these lower entities make their own decisions? Why can Aurora converse with them?

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noaleph

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#17  Edited By noaleph

@typeiv said:

@noaleph: How can something that doesn't exist, exist?

The worlds are real. Hell, they all fall under the same ladder created by and leading towards the one omnipotent Creator. That can't be if they are truly non-existent. If these lower worlds truly do not exist, then why can entities ascend to higher layers, with Beatrice even temporarily reaching Aurora's level with her true potential when creating her magic system? Why can these lower entities make their own decisions? Why can Aurora converse with them?

Obviously, it is because of bad world building with a poorly defined cosmology with ill logic that can bend and collapse under its own reasoning that people tend to cover their ears and ignore. If you write a story, you can change its magic system to any you want obviously.

It is literally demonstrated that the lower worlds to Featherine's perspective are only contained by a piece of paper that can easily be torn apart by regular humans if you bring them to that certain level of existence. It isn't as if there is a door to some physical ladder inside the book Featherine is reading, to the lower world, it is literally a book to her, not some doorway to some lower world. Unless you think Mickey Mouse can pop out of your TV screen with some magic ladder.

And the idea of fictional characters talking to an author avatar or a reader avatar isn't new either. And saying they make their own decisions makes as much sense as saying virtual humans with artificial intelligence are 'real'. Self-awareness or no, it is still fictional on 2-dimensional paper regardless, no more real than the things inside a virtual simulation. Nothing changes about this.

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TypeIV

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#18  Edited By TypeIV

@noaleph: Obviously, it is because of bad world building with a poorly defined cosmology with ill logic

It's not bad world building. It just goes over your head.

It is literally demonstrated that the lower worlds to Featherine's perspective are only contained by a piece of paper that can easily be torn apart by regular humans if you bring them to that certain level of existence.

The fact that they can be both brought and ascend on their own to higher worlds means that they are not truly non-existent.

It isn't as if there is a door to some physical ladder inside the book Featherine is reading, to the lower world,

The ladder runs throughout the entire Witches Domain and beyond, and contains every meta layer, including Aurora's, yet is real and stems from the omnipotent Creator.

Unless you think Mickey Mouse can pop out of your TV screen with some magic ladder.

Fiction is literally non-existent when talking about US and fiction, unlike WTC's representation of reality>fiction. The fictional representation of R>F meta layers can never TRULY compare to real R>F, aka US>fiction. Even fictional omnipotent entities are under our jurisdiction. Real R>F (aka us>fiction) is completely absolute, unlike fictions using meta cosmologies.

virtual humans with artificial intelligence are 'real'. Self-awareness or no, it is still fictional on 2-dimensional paper regardless, no more real than the things inside a virtual simulation. Nothing changes about this.

Actually, a virtual simulation does exist to some extent, unlike literal fictional characters conjured up by our minds. An A.I that can interact on a level as simple as conversing with us is something fiction can never do. The only "real" thing about a fictional character is their drawing in real life. They cannot however be self-aware on any level, nor interact with us. They are figments of our imagination; an A.I is not.

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noaleph

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#19  Edited By noaleph

@typeiv said:

@noaleph: Obviously, it is because of bad world building with a poorly defined cosmology with ill logic

It's not bad world building. It just goes over your head.

Confusing, convoluting unnecessary gaffs is bad world building. Even more so if you yourself are not even able to give a decent defense for it.

@typeiv said:

The fact that they can be both brought and ascend on their own to higher worlds means that they are not truly non-existent.

You can literally create a virtual software and place a series of code to be able to rise to coded higher worlds, and make them do it on their own.

@typeiv said:

The ladder runs throughout the entire Witches Domain and beyond, and contains every meta layer, including Aurora's, yet is real and stems from the omnipotent Creator.

Ladders are an up-down construct, we would have to see this ladder and its steps go through all and every single book that Featherine reads, and the paper pages that Featherine tears apart for this to be literally true to apply to her. And yet this was not even nearly demonstrated.

@typeiv said:

Actually, a virtual simulation does exist to some extent, unlike literal fictional characters conjured up by our minds. An A.I that can interact on a level as simple as conversing with us is something fiction can never do. The only "real" thing about a fictional character is their drawing in real life. They cannot however be self-aware on any level, nor interact with us. They are figments of our imagination; an A.I is not.

Oh boy. Nobody is arguing that artificial intelligence cannot be installed to physical motors and robotics in our real world to interact with physical objects in our reality.

Your argument is that because these non-existing things inside books of paper pages to Featherine, can sort of be self-aware and make their own decisions means that this justifies that Featherine is Multiversal.

I argue that this is just as absurd as claiming that anyone whoever gets to make a virtual reality with an infinite multiverse is multiversal just because some of its software in the virtual world are self-aware. Also as ridiculous as claiming street level magic user characters in fiction who can create pocket mini-universes with mini-humans in it are universal.

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noaleph

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#20  Edited By noaleph

@typeiv said:

The fact that they can be both brought and ascend on their own to higher worlds means that they are not truly non-existent.

Why would the fact that they are now real to a certain level of existence, invalidate the fact that their prior status was nonexisting things when they were prior just fictional characters in a book that Featherine was reading or such? That's like saying the fact that I am now 34 years old means I was never truly 5 years old.

They were non-existent prior, and then they were made not to be, quite simple solution. The solution you put forth is an overly complicated one.

Many characters in cartoons and anime have used reality warping or magic to turn their drawings and the things they write that are fictional to their perspective, into becoming a living thing to their world's perspective before.

That in no way means the things that they turned real from a drawing turned out to be less fictional before. Nor did that make the user of the power multiversal.

That makes zero sense.

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Edd57

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The fact that the Chousin are ants compare to tenchi say a lot about this

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ovy7

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When people that don't know shit about a verse try to debate a verse they don't know shit about...

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lmaolmaolmao

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Most fiction don't treat Reality>Fiction differences as being literal.You don't need 200IQ to understand that.

Not that it matters since if you think it's a literal reality>fiction then that means Umineko characters can ascend literal Reality>Fiction layers so they just go suggsverse beyond omnipotence level

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GXN

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Tenchi wins this.

The Creator vs Kami Tenchi would be a tie tho

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noaleph

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#26  Edited By noaleph

@lmaolmaolmao said:

Most fiction don't treat Reality>Fiction differences as being literal.You don't need 200IQ to understand that.

That's irrelevant. You don't need 200 IQ to understand that.

@lmaolmaolmao said:

Not that it matters since if you think it's a literal reality>fiction then that means Umineko characters can ascend literal Reality>Fiction layers so they just go suggsverse beyond omnipotence level

What? That literally makes zero sense. But hey, if you think this twisted reasoning implies everyone on Umineko is omnipotent, by all means. I cannot say any more for the insanity displayed here.

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deactivated-5f98b2eb38d48

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Featherine wins, as far as I'm aware Kami Tenchi is not omnipotent as the term has been misused in-verse with several characters scaling above him or having done stuff to debunk his status as being a boundless being.

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lmaolmaolmao

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@noaleph said:.

That's irrelevant. You don't need 200 IQ to understand that.


Oh its very much relevant.Umineko dont treat the lower levels of existence as non existent,they explictly treat them as worlds that exist

What? That literally makes zero sense. But hey, if you think this twisted reasoning implies everyone on Umineko is omnipotent, by all means. I cannot say any more for the insanity displayed here.

Not my fault you think Umineko layers are literal reality fiction difference despite characters explictly ascending those layers.The only insane being here is you

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GXN

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#29  Edited By GXN
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GXN

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ovy7

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#31  Edited By ovy7

@gxn said:

@anaverageguy123: I heard hes ranked to outerversal now right?

The VSBW tiering isn't normally used here, not to mention that Tenchi Muyo would likely get downgraded from what I've heard (or at least the Chousins would, but then Kami would be baseline outerversal). But if you want to go by the VSBW system then Featherine is ranked as Boundless there, which is insanely above Kami Tenchi.

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lmaolmaolmao

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@ovy7 said:
@gxn said:

@anaverageguy123: I heard hes ranked to outerversal now right?

The VSBW tiering isn't normally used here, not to mention that Tenchi Muyo would likely get downgraded from what I've heard (or at least the Chousins would, but then Kami would be baseline outerversal). But if you want to go by the VSBW system then Featherine is ranked as Boundless there, which is insanely above Kami Tenchi.

Wait why would Kami be 1-A if Choushin are 1-B?Dont tell me it's beyond definitions crap again >_>

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ovy7

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@ovy7 said:
@gxn said:

@anaverageguy123: I heard hes ranked to outerversal now right?

The VSBW tiering isn't normally used here, not to mention that Tenchi Muyo would likely get downgraded from what I've heard (or at least the Chousins would, but then Kami would be baseline outerversal). But if you want to go by the VSBW system then Featherine is ranked as Boundless there, which is insanely above Kami Tenchi.

Wait why would Kami be 1-A if Choushin are 1-B?Dont tell me it's beyond definitions crap again >_>

I'm truly sorry, Umy:

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lmaolmaolmao

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#34  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

Bruh

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deactivated-5f98b2eb38d48

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@gxn said:

@anaverageguy123: I heard hes ranked to outerversal now right?

It would be great if he were truly outerversal, cause I would maybe argue for him to win then. However he, like most fictions, don't actually scale there without the extremely generous wank interpretations VsB likes to give pet verses.

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Gokuisthebest

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noaleph

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#37  Edited By noaleph

Oh its very much relevant.Umineko dont treat the lower levels of existence as non existent,they explictly treat them as worlds that exist

It is still not relevant. Because you don't suddenly become Multiversal once a fictional 2-dimensional picture gains its own intelligence of its own, and just because some characters can create pocket universes, and just because there are in-universe means to make fictional things real which many magic cartoon characters have done.

You can use hyper-technicalities, but I don't see how the fact that their fictionality has some quirks compared to real life perspective of fictionality, that this somehow justifies giving them a Multiversal ranking that ubberstomps other settings. That is also extremely arbitrary nonsensical reasoning coming from you.

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Overvoid

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Kami tenchi stomp, is omnipotent

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lmaolmaolmao

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@noaleph said:

Oh its very much relevant.Umineko dont treat the lower levels of existence as non existent,they explictly treat them as worlds that exist

It is still not relevant. Because you don't suddenly become Multiversal once a fictional 2-dimensional picture gains its own intelligence of its own, and just because some characters can create pocket universes, and just because there are in-universe means to make fictional things real which many magic cartoon characters have done.

You can use hyper-technicalities, but I don't see how the fact that their fictionality has some quirks compared to real life perspective of fictionality, that this somehow justifies giving them a Multiversal ranking that ubberstomps other settings. That is also extremely arbitrary nonsensical reasoning coming from you.

the same can be extended to higher dimensions and infinity itself
viewing something as spatially flat is not a measure of power.And beings with infinite power are just regular humans pretending to kill non existent/infinitesimal things.

by your logic multiversal beings just cant exist.

what you need here is a starting point for reality equalisation,which is usually equalising the earth of both the verses

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kilgpmktra

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@noaleph: So TOAA isn't multiversal because it views the multiverse and its residents as nothing but fictional stories it created? So nobody in marvel is multiversal then

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or did the point you were making go completely over my head?

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lmaolmaolmao

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#41  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

viewing things as fiction is just an analogy for very high power and authority

if you ignore it but allow other multiversals thats just double standards at best and bias at worst

of course it goes both ways,some people think meta is the second coming of jesus,and it somehow exceeds true omnipotence

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CaoCao

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Depended on the tiering and the using of "omnipotence". Either Kami Tenchi wins via omnipotence, or Featherine via superior dimensional hierarchy.

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noaleph

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the same can be extended to higher dimensions and infinity itself

I don't understand what this is supposed to imply, your arguments presuppose a series of implications, without giving reason as to why they somehow actually refute my position that. Like, what does this even mean or imply or prove?

I feel as if you are trying to make a point, while somehow failing to complete your sentence as it is intended. It is as if you are way too used to speaking a language and line of thought only understandable to a certain circle of people you know and assuming anyone outside your comfort zone gets it.

viewing something as spatially flat is not a measure of power.

I agree. But this is actually the entire premise of Umineko's magic system. It has been stated that there are infinite levels of worlds below even the human world. A ladder with no bottom, a hierarchy technically made up of literally negative numbers somehow.

I absolutely refuse to acknowledge Featherine is multiversal because if she is, so are the regular humans there.

by your logic multiversal beings just cant exist.

Yes.

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lmaolmaolmao

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@noaleph said:

I don't understand what this is supposed to imply, your arguments presuppose a series of implications, without giving reason as to why they somehow actually refute my position that. Like, what does this even mean or imply or prove?

I feel as if you are trying to make a point, while somehow failing to complete your sentence as it is intended. It is as if you are way too used to speaking a language and line of thought only understandable to a certain circle of people you know and assuming anyone outside your comfort zone gets it.

Literally read the next line smartass.I explain both of them.

I agree. But this is actually the entire premise of Umineko's magic system. It has been stated that there are infinite levels of worlds below even the human world. A ladder with no bottom, a hierarchy technically made up of literally negative numbers somehow.

I absolutely refuse to acknowledge Featherine is multiversal because if she is, so are the regular humans there.

Like I said,you need a common start point in reality equalisation for cosmology,which is usually the earth of both verses

Yes.

ok smartass get out of this thread.This is for people that accept the axiom of infinity

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noaleph

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#45  Edited By noaleph

Literally read the next line smartass.I explain both of them.

No you didn't, you make incoherent seemingly incomplete sentences that make no sense.

Like I said,you need a common start point in reality equalisation for cosmology,which is usually the earth of both verses

Then we are we arguing again? I don't think dimensional tiering is valid to justify something is Multiversal.

You don't seem to think it is valid in a fight, so why are you bitching at me on this thread for?

ok smartass get out of this thread.This is for people that accept the axiom of infinity

You asked me if it is logical for Multiversal beings (things that can destroy infinity) to exist, that is strictly not the same as saying the axiom of infinity is acceptable or not.

I like how you people argue, you strawman, create poorly constructed arguments (seemingly incomplete sentences) expecting me to understand some hidden meaning or something and create false equivalences in order to appear victorious, dishonestly and claim victory.

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noaleph

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#46  Edited By noaleph
@kilgpmktra said:

@noaleph: So TOAA isn't multiversal because it views the multiverse and its residents as nothing but fictional stories it created? So nobody in marvel is multiversal then

or did the point you were making go completely over my head?

Mostly the latter, I personally think a Multiversal being can only be Multiversal or Universal if it create any amount of space-time, matter, energy with an infinite amount and be able to tank that same "power" whatever that may be.

I do not think you can be Multiversal because you can toy with a hierarchy of pocket universes where there are even pocket levels even below the human world, we cannot use this quantifiably in my opinion.

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lmaolmaolmao

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#47  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

@noaleph said:

No you didn't, you make incoherent seemingly incomplete sentences that make zero sense.

learn to read then.

I said this:-

the same can be extended to higher dimensions and infinity itself

viewing something as spatially flat is not a measure of power.And beings with infinite power are just regular humans pretending to kill non existent/infinitesimal things.

bold and underline point to the explanation of respective point.Just try to read for gods sake

Then we are we arguing again? I don't think dimensional tiering is valid to justify something is Multiversal.

You don't seem to think it is valid in a fight, so why are you bitching at me on this thread for?

Its not relevant if the threadmaker decides to equalise reality in a different way,before that we equalise the earths of both the verses and tier them accordingly

You asked me if it is logical for Multiversal beings (things that can destroy infinity) to exist, that is strictly not the same as saying the axiom of infinity is acceptable or not.

Its actually literally the same thing.Accepting the axiom of infinity is the same as accepting the existence of infinite things as concrete objects and the existence of trasnfinites and higher infinities

I like how you people argue, you strawman, create poorly constructed arguments (seemingly incomplete sentences) expecting me to understand some hidden meaning or something and create false equivalences.

I like you lack reading comprehension.I literally explain my point in the next line but you just cant read for some reason

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Overvoid

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Kami tenchi stiil stomps this is getting ridiculous

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noaleph

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#49  Edited By noaleph

the same can be extended to higher dimensions and infinity itself

viewing something as spatially flat is not a measure of power.And beings with infinite power are just regular humans pretending to kill non existent/infinitesimal things.

You described Umineko, congratulations. Because that is true in their case.

Its not relevant if the threadmaker decides to equalise reality in a different way,before that we equalise the earths of both the verses and tier them accordingly

Who's the "we"? I don't remember signing up to some goofy authority. I don't care.

Its actually literally the same thing.Accepting the axiom of infinity is the same as accepting the existence of infinite things as concrete objects and the existence of trasnfinites and higher infinities

No they are not.

Transfinite numbers are just the cardinality including the membership of ordinal numbers within a set, which cannot be used to measure size or quantity or energy but only describe an order of things. Set theoretic mathematics deals with the cardinality of the membership of numbers within a set and not quantity nor size, that is why you can technically use negative numbers with it.

Nothing within set theoretic mathematics remotely tells you this nonsensical equivalency you are creating.

That has nothing to do with proving whether Infinite energy destroying can destroy another infinite space-time, you cannot use ordinal numbers to describe these, that makes no sense.

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lmaolmaolmao

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#50  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

@noaleph: Ordinals describe position,but cardinality is literally the "size" of a set.