Featherine Augustus Aurora vs The Endless

@zgtfreak:

I'm not against Perpetua being beyond imagination; I just don't find it quantifiable since so many fictions use it (including Umineko) use it. And since Umineko uses it, I don't find it relevant for either verse when pitted against each other.

you still dont understand. the difference is that perpetua specifically works just 2 tiers below the source/god itself while your average voyager works so distantly far below said supreme being. and she is a literal extension of an omnipotent being as all creator entities of DC are (like mandrakk, lucifer, super celestials and the rest of the source judges, and spectre).

so she rules over vast imagination expanse of metaphysics that is only two tiers below the level of omnipotence-operation specifically being that close as an extension of god.

its not the same as when umineko characters who dont even have anything to do with the creation of the idea of the entire infinite hierarchy's origin using "beyond imagination" cheaply and merely relatively. perpetua is literally what featherine should ideally be, because perpetua was naturally close to the creator in existential nature and featherine had to reach there to get there.

True, but I do think Umineko's god tier executive hax are a bit more impressive than DC in my opinion.

what makes DC powerful is their extreme metaphysics authority/override. like the presence declaring the spectre's full potential to be impossible to exploit by any means (literally by an omnipotent's definition and statement) and all encompassing (which is what happened when spectre broke his individual identity and suddenly activated his omnipotent-backing). it is more than hax.

hax is too linear. and is just 1 branch of metaphysics while DC plays all cards of metaphysics.

comparing the metaphysics of DC to Umineko is like comparing an black ink cartridge (umineko) to an entire painting palette of various colors of your choice that encompass all. that is DC's.

what makes things worse is that most of DC's abstracts are not even magic based-metaphysics at all. (especially the spectre who is magic antithesis). this becomes a dillema for battler for example because his hax are specifically/literally stated to be against magic based metaphysics. and we are only assuming that his hax works on really high tier non-magic metaphysic entities (which never happened). and i only assume for sake of debate because im a very accomodating and forgiving guy.

if composite DC's non-omnipotent characters all composited into one character and power, they would actually crush all fictions' non-omnipotents due to their extremely insane metaphysics potency overriding anything that isnt omnipotent and extremely insane non-conceptual metaphysics intangibility existence. regardless of cosmology size at that point.

unless a fiction can use the same level of deep metaphysics cards/combination that DC has done. and have some beings that are literally just 1 hair away from omnipotence at the same time. they cannot survive.

@einefaust: That's stupid reasoning and not a quantifiable feat, when this description get's used to describe powerful characters, especially when these character get their ass kicked. It's not a quantifiable feat. Not at all. It's mostly just there to describe characters with immens power over reality. It isn't a quantifiable feat against characters way stronger by feats.

@norsewinter: Battler ignores more than magic. That was his specific Endless Nine as a meta-human. The problem is despite Endless Nine being a hax, it is such an insanely broad hax to the point it's like DC's. It can deny magic, the supernatural in general, reality itself, ect. It is not limited to one thing. It isn't a "Lawl, anti-concept ability." A manifestation of someone's mental state to deny anything if they do not accept it. It is a very broad hax. I only call it hax since it's known as a specific ability; but what it does is so broad that it easily matches DC. Being beyond imagination or extremely meta isn't helping. You need something to specifically disable/hard counter it. Now can Battler kill DC god-tiers? Not sure. Probably not. But I don't see them even scraping him at all with what i know so far. They seem to be at a stalemate. (Of course omni-proxy blinks him though.)

you still dont understand. the difference is that perpetua specifically works just 2 tiers below the source/god itself

Despite being weaker due to cosmology and less hax, so is Aurora. Even though she had to earn getting there (unlike DC), she is still just a step away from the Creator. I don't see the 1 step away from omnipotence helping unless they are flat out omni-proxies.

I'm more of arguing for a stalemate since Battler has never effected such metaphysical entities, and they have never effected someone with such potency.

@yasindermann:

Do you undrstand that 5th dimension in DC is home dimension of Mr Mxyzptlk and Batmite and countless 5th dimensional Imp?

They have descent feats to back up the claim that 5th dimension is imagination.

If there's someone in fiction stronger than Mxy (Who is somehow bound by a cosmology model like the box or suggsverse stuff with a little bit of specifix hax), then that character still blinks, since there is no proof that Mxy is stronger than this character. This is how feats, the fundamental of vs battles work. I don't care, lol. Beyond imagination in one fiction doesn't justify to be stronger than another one stronger than the reality of said imagination. Perpetua has backed up feats on beyond imagination, but not because of that.

@yasindermann:

Yeah, I agree with you in this point that Beyond imagination in one fiction doesn't justify to be stronger than another one.

If so, why can you say that Umineko's imagination and hax is stronger than DC despite DC has better cosmology?

Again, it works more complicated than that. (I even said ''specific hax'', since not everything is justified by cosmology). Even said: ''Perpetua is beyond imagination, but not because of that''. To describe a powerful character as ''beyond imagination'' based on higher reality power is simply dumb, since that's almost routine with higher dimensional characters.

@yasindermann:

I see.

But, we should consider the nature of DC's fifth dimension as dimension of imagination because it has been backed up by many feat.

And, You have no basis to insist that Umineko imagination is more powerful than DC's.

Where did I talk about Umineko? I didn't refer to Umineko.

@yasindermann:

Ok,I seemed to misunderstand you.

@yasindermann:@zgtfreak

the box is a construct of another verse, so this argument hilariously doesnt even apply. she might as well hypothetically be able to surpass the box though considering how near she operates to the supreme omnipotent of DC. anyway, so this doesnt even qualify as an argument. might qualify as a question though.

but to answer your question: yes, perpetua can most likely (and why not) surpass the box because she is a tier-2 nigh-omnipotent and she is qualified to manipulate the extensions of an omnipotent god to create things.

perpetua is literally a tier 2 extension of the supreme omnipotent being of DC, working only 1 tier below the likes of the judges of the source and true potential spectre (the latter is hilariously overpowered).

this is proven because perpetua quite literally takes pieces out of the overvoid (extension of the presence/supreme god) she shapes it into her own sons. and that she is given authority to take pieces out of the mind/parts of an omnipotent being. she is that authoritarily close to omnipotence. she is that close.

and you want to compare that credibility of power to umineko voyagers who on average work infinite-d levels below the domain of the creator? who have 0 connective power to its supreme being? its a far and distant comparison.

we are discussing metaphysics potency feats, we are not discussing cosmology size. two completely different things already.

so when when we are told that she is beyond the power of imagination, (because she is a demiurge of a supreme being and has literally demonstrated doing this) it is to be taken far more seriously. because its not a mere hyperbole anymore because of authority demonstration. because she is naturally bestowed that power to be beyond imagination.

i have no idea why this is extremely difficult to understand. there are power levels that are literally 1-2 steps away from omnipotence VIA omnipotence-extension (creating lesser beings as extensions of an omnipotent being)

DC specializes in this (and they tend to do it, a lot. the idea of "my source of power comes from omnipotent being") culminating to such nigh-omnipotents. the only thing defeating these beings are the source that granted these entities their power to begin with.

like the voice depowering the spectre, or perpetua being defeated by other subordinates of god. and thats why they are so hard to kill. their metaphysics hard to match and is way toooooo deep.

i can only think of some god tiers from elder scrolls and demon king matching this, but thats it.

@norsewinter: I do understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that Aurora is so close to her omnipotent that if she goes any further, she will be absorbed, yet Battler has been implied to be (and logically should be) above her via his abilities. Sure, she wasn't created by him, but she still is as close as you can possibly get. Yes, Aurora is far inferior to Perpetua due to inferior an metaphysical existence and abilities, but I am just bringing up how close she is to omnipotence to show that the close to omnipotence argument isn't changing. Also, Aurora being beyond imagination/incomprehensible to lower beings should be taken more seriously then, as she is so close to her omnipotent being that it has more credibility than the other incomprehensible statements in Umineko. Hell, Creator Beatrice (should be below EoS Battler's hax in my opinion) created her entirely own magic system. Hell, Creator Beatrice's power isn't even based off the ladder. Her highest dimension reached was the Golden Land when she tapped into her true potential that one time; yet she makes Aurora look third-rate. (Not making a cosmology argument. Just saying that Creator Beatrice seems to have almost 100% narrative manipulation based off of that, and her level on the ladder is irrelevant to her power; tet even she shouldn't logically be above Battler's Endless Nine, despite all of that.) She seems to truly have nigh-omnipotent narrative manipulation based off of that. Here's the problem... You said this earlier:

and at the height of her power, she was stated to be "above imagination" by scott snyder. and imagination and narratives are the formal roots of hax.

So she is above imagination and by extension narratives? But earlier you said anyone with 100% narrative manipulation should be omnipotent (I agree); so she can't be beyond narratives with that logic.

if it were up to me, id say anyone with 100% narrative manipulation is already omnipotent since they can make any hax they want

Now I know you won't argue for that due to Vine rep, but you admitted that is your true opinion. I'm taking this as an honest discussion between us for once, rather than the political tip-toe around garbage we always do.

DC specializes in this (and they tend to do it, a lot. the idea of "my source of power comes from omnipotent being")

Ok, let me ask you this... Are these beings omni-proxies? Will their omnipotent not allow them to lose outside of losing to their own kind (aka other beings that are extensions of said omnipotent as well)? If that is the case, then they do beat Battler easily.

their metaphysics hard to match and is way toooooo deep.

I'm not even arguing for Battler beating them now. I said that they are incapable of bypassing Endless Nine due to nothing they have shown being able to hard counter it. The absolutes of Endless Nine is something they haven't been shown capable of dealing with; but Battler can't damage them either. DC's metaphysical existences are too much for him to fully kill, and Battler's absoluteness of Endless Nine is too much for DC's god-tiers to override. It's a stalemate in my mind, unless they are heavily heavily supported on an omni-proxy-ish level by their omnipotent. If that's the case, then they win.

@norsewinter: Gotta admit, that comparison was pretty dumb from my side. Noticed it later.

@kaoscrystals Why are you bumping old threads only to remove your comment. All you've done is show that the Crisis Squad leader himself agrees WTC elite cannot best the God tiers in DC.

"look etriel-debunked this"

No, he didn't. He agrees it is at best a stalemate. Mates, this is the Sungsam thread I couldn't find that we spoke of. @sagathelegend@xearesay@el_mago@einefaust

caught red handed.

@michaeljulius: and you just bumped this thread too lol

chill I accidentally bump this.

I thought I was typing on another tab but when I clicked post reply I noticed that it was the wrong thread.

That's why I deleted it.

featherine

Featherine

One of endless solo

featherine stomps.

@michaeljulius: can you pls show me this the featherine wank needs to end

....... Why bump this thread?

OT: I don't think the endless is stronger than Lucifer so Featherine likely wins this.

No one here is wanking I believe. The endless are not being wanked nor is Featherine. But I consider Featherine to be superior though, mostly because of her narrative Transcendance and her author authority. Also To add salt

The endless and Virtigo>>>>>>>>>The rest of DC.

@deactivated-5e0e83bb0dbb5: that was fun to read this debate and the wankers need to stop, more forums need more ppl like you and that guy you debated you didn't insult each other and you talked like rational beings, you guys are an example of real debaters

Fratherine due to meta hax which is far greater than cas and mandrakk

Endless solos all of anime/manga.

@ovy7: i need help, can you solve my puzzle, it said if you think magic doesnt exist, then it doesnt exist and cannot affect the human world, is it because it is a rule set by beatrice to make the game more fun?

The Endless comfortably.

Featherine,but it isn't going to all so easily

The endless are fodder to Lucifer who is literally fodder to featherine

DC is fodder to Featherine

Featherine wins this one handily.

Death of the Endless solos

yeah i have no clue

Featherine stomps

Featherine wins agains the endless and also things like CAS too

The endless wins, they're natural aspect of the multiverse and even beyond the fiction