Fantastic 8 vs X-Men

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NovaPrime2

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Rules

  • Colossus is the Juggernaut version, current versions for everyone else
  • No prep
  • Basic knowledge
  • Morals off
  • Takes place in a large open field
  • Win by any means except BFR
  • Start 25 ft apart

Individual fights

  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue
  3. Human Torch vs Storm
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops
  6. Hulk vs Colossus
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik

Team fight

  • 5 minutes to devise a strategy
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NovaPrime2

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Koays

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Spider, Reed, and Logan are probably getting caught up in the initial AoE and early teleport blitz of the X-Men.....then it slowly comes down to just Hulk who blows up the planet or something else gamma related.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#4  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan
  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok - Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue - Rogue due to absorption
  3. Human Torch vs Storm - 50/50 since Storm has ways to win but she's definitely not surviving a morals off Nova Blast
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto - Sue is just superior in all the ways that matter in a fight plus she's a lot more competent
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops - Wolverine I think
  6. Hulk vs Colossus - Hulk
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler - I think Spider-Man's Spider-Sense gives him the edge
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik - I'm not sure what a morals off Ghost Rider can do

The team fight could go either way but I'm leaning towards the F8 due to much better teamwork and experience which in the past has given them advantages in fights against bigger teams plus they have Hulk who is incredibly hard to put down

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geekryan

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  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue
  3. Human Torch vs Storm 50/50
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops
  6. Hulk vs Colossus
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik

In a morals off fight, the X-Men have a lot more to benefit from than the F8. Both teams have good teamwork, but the X-Men have a lot more versatility and hax. If the X-Men's strategy involves taking out Sue first, then the F8 would lose, with Hulk being the last one standing.

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TheDevil98

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  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue(since its morals off)
  3. Human Torch vs Storm
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops
  6. Hulk vs Colossus
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler- 50/50
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik- Don't know enough about Ketch.

Team fight- F8 due to Sue and Hulk as mvps.

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kasya_carey

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  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok - Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue - Rogue due to absorption
  3. Human Torch vs Storm - 50/50 since Storm has ways to win but she's definitely not surviving a morals off Nova Blast
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto - Sue is just superior in all the ways that matter in a fight plus she's a lot more competent
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops - Wolverine I think
  6. Hulk vs Colossus - Hulk
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler - I think Spider-Man's Spider-Sense gives him the edge
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik - I'm not sure what a morals off Ghost Rider can do

The team fight could go either way but I'm leaning towards the F8 due to much better teamwork and experience which in the past has given them advantages in fights against bigger teams plus they have Hulk who is incredibly hard to put down

This

Except I believe Cyclops would be Logan

Storm could block from a Nova blast. Vulcan absorbed the Nova force and possibly Gladiator powers. Vulcan stated he brought the sun to Storm trying to kill her with a blast that shook the planet indirectly.

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Mooty_Pass

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#8  Edited By Mooty_Pass
  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok - Reed needs Prep to win his fights. Sorry.
  2. Thing vs Rogue - Her drain ability is a massive problem.
  3. Human Torch vs Storm - Storm has multiple ways to kill Johnny while Johnny only has 1. And let's be honest Storm will kill Johnny before he can start a Nova blast.
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto - Erik/Max whatever you call him has no actual way to breach Sue's Force Fields.
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops - I've always believe Scott can beat Logan. Especially not holding back.
  6. Hulk vs Colossus - 50/50 Since this is Colosonaut i'll give it to him considering WWH couldn't really beat the Juggernaut.
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler -50/50 but the edge goes to Nightcrawler.
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik - 50/50 Can GHR escape Limbo if Magik took the fight there?

Based on individual Fights the X-Men Win.

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ProfessorRespect

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Not sure how Havok puts down Reed, his durability and strength were enough to mangle Namor when he was serious

Rogue most likely wins on account of her draining

Torch beats Storm ofc

Invis Woman beats Mags off just having a power set that counters him

Wolverine most likely beats Cyclops on virtue of his regen

Hulk beats this version of Colossnaut 9/10 times

Spidey edges out Nightcrawler due to having better stats + using Spidey Sense to avoid getting telefragged

Magik SHOULD win against Ketch Rider but her current status makes that questionable

In a team fight the X-Men have better teamwork but they'd need to abuse draining + BFR to win properly here, not seeing them win in a prolonged fight with the tanks + Sue here

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#10  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

x men win decisively

Mr. Fantastic vs Havok- havok

Thing vs Rogue- rogue

Human Torch vs Storm- storm

Invisible Woman vs Magneto- sue

Wolverine vs Cyclops- cyclops

Hulk vs Colossus- hulk

Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler- spider-man

Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik- magik

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#11  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan
@kasya_carey said:
@scarlet_wiccan said:
  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok - Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue - Rogue due to absorption
  3. Human Torch vs Storm - 50/50 since Storm has ways to win but she's definitely not surviving a morals off Nova Blast
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto - Sue is just superior in all the ways that matter in a fight plus she's a lot more competent
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops - Wolverine I think
  6. Hulk vs Colossus - Hulk
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler - I think Spider-Man's Spider-Sense gives him the edge
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik - I'm not sure what a morals off Ghost Rider can do

The team fight could go either way but I'm leaning towards the F8 due to much better teamwork and experience which in the past has given them advantages in fights against bigger teams plus they have Hulk who is incredibly hard to put down

This

Except I believe Cyclops would be Logan

Storm could block from a Nova blast. Vulcan absorbed the Nova force and possibly Gladiator powers. Vulcan stated he brought the sun to Storm trying to kill her with a blast that shook the planet indirectly.

No Caption Provided

Currently Johnny's Nova Blast >>>> a sun's heat and is more than just normal fire it contains raw cosmic energy plus it nearly restored a starving Galactus' power which is significantly above what Vulcan can do

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kasya_carey

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@kasya_carey said:
@scarlet_wiccan said:
  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok - Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue - Rogue due to absorption
  3. Human Torch vs Storm - 50/50 since Storm has ways to win but she's definitely not surviving a morals off Nova Blast
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto - Sue is just superior in all the ways that matter in a fight plus she's a lot more competent
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops - Wolverine I think
  6. Hulk vs Colossus - Hulk
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler - I think Spider-Man's Spider-Sense gives him the edge
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik - I'm not sure what a morals off Ghost Rider can do

The team fight could go either way but I'm leaning towards the F8 due to much better teamwork and experience which in the past has given them advantages in fights against bigger teams plus they have Hulk who is incredibly hard to put down

This

Except I believe Cyclops would be Logan

Storm could block from a Nova blast. Vulcan absorbed the Nova force and possibly Gladiator powers. Vulcan stated he brought the sun to Storm trying to kill her with a blast that shook the planet indirectly.

No Caption Provided

Currently Johnny's Nova Blast >>>> a sun's heat and is more than just normal fire it contains raw cosmic energy plus it nearly restored a starving Galactus' power which is significantly above what Vulcan can do

Eating a planet would restore Galactus I don’t see how that scales to Johnny in any type of way. That doesn't make his nova blast >>>the sun. The feeding that Galactus does is unquantifiable. He just consumes energies for his hunger to maintain his strength. Unless a planet's energies is enough restore his own power. Galactus is someone on the level of the Phoenix force, Celestials/Dark Celestials, and the Vishanti. Johnny does not compare to anybody I named.

Johnny flames have always been cosmic by nature. Just because it's cosmic doesn't mean anything. The solar storm that just happened on Earth is considered cosmic. Storm uses cosmic energy the electromagnetic fields everytime she uses her powers.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@kasya_carey:

Eating a planet would restore Galactus I don’t see how that scales to Johnny in any type of way. That doesn't make his nova blast >>>the sun. The feeding that Galactus does is unquantifiable. He just consumes energies for his hunger to maintain his strength. Unless a planet's energies is enough restore his own power. Galactus is someone on the level of the Phoenix force, Celestials/Dark Celestials, and the Vishanti. Johnny does not compare to anybody I named.

Eating one planet doesn't restore a starving Galactus' hunger, He's consumed several planets at a time, stars even entire dimensions to restore his power in the past and even while starving destroyed three solar systems with a blast in Annihilation, I'm not saying he's comparable to Galactus he just nearly restored his power with a full-out Nova Blast

Johnny flames have always been cosmic by nature. Just because it's cosmic doesn't mean anything. The solar storm that just happened on Earth is considered cosmic. Storm uses cosmic energy the electromagnetic fields everytime she uses her powers

When going full out he can release cosmic energy in addition to the fire and just in terms of pure heat even his normal flames have repeatedly burned Silver Surfer who has been unaffected by the heat in star cores and actual supernovas

Also if we take Vulcan's "sun" statement at face value I don't see why we can't take Johnny's various "supernova" or at least "hotter than a sun/star" statements serious so either way with or without statements Johnny's flames >>> Vulcan's flames

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kasya_carey

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@kasya_carey:

Eating a planet would restore Galactus I don’t see how that scales to Johnny in any type of way. That doesn't make his nova blast >>>the sun. The feeding that Galactus does is unquantifiable. He just consumes energies for his hunger to maintain his strength. Unless a planet's energies is enough restore his own power. Galactus is someone on the level of the Phoenix force, Celestials/Dark Celestials, and the Vishanti. Johnny does not compare to anybody I named.

Eating one planet doesn't restore a starving Galactus' hunger, He's consumed several planets at a time, stars even entire dimensions to restore his power in the past and even while starving destroyed three solar systems with a blast in Annihilation, I'm not saying he's comparable to Galactus he just nearly restored his power with a full-out Nova Blast

Johnny flames have always been cosmic by nature. Just because it's cosmic doesn't mean anything. The solar storm that just happened on Earth is considered cosmic. Storm uses cosmic energy the electromagnetic fields everytime she uses her powers

When going full out he can release cosmic energy in addition to the fire and just in terms of pure heat even his normal flames have repeatedly burned Silver Surfer who has been unaffected by the heat in star cores and actual supernovas

Also if we take Vulcan's "sun" statement at face value I don't see why we can't take Johnny's various "supernova" or at least "hotter than a sun/star" statements serious so either way with or without statements Johnny's flames >>> Vulcan's flames

Even if it is not one planet you basically just agreed with me. Several planets is still planet level. It takes 50+ planet to be considered large planet level. So you admit it's not quantifiable. Several planets, Star , Stars, solar systems and etc. How do we know what Johnny compares to?

His normal flames hurting Silver Surfer is Pis just like Storm hitting SS with lighting multiple times. Also SS Issue 15 proves how inferior Johnny is to SS.

The problem is I was using Vulcan statement about temperature/heat. Didn't state he was using the full power of the sun. Just like Johnny don't believe he is ever using the full power of a supernova since he can barely maintain it for a long time. Calc has him at planet level with it.

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Mage101

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@geekryan said:
  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue
  3. Human Torch vs Storm 50/50
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops
  6. Hulk vs Colossus
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik

In a morals off fight, the X-Men have a lot more to benefit from than the F8. Both teams have good teamwork, but the X-Men have a lot more versatility and hax. If the X-Men's strategy involves taking out Sue first, then the F8 would lose, with Hulk being the last one standing.

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Mage101

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@scarlet_wiccan: Currently Johnny's Nova Blast >>>> a sun's heat

> Currently? I thought that has been a thing for years.

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blackspidey2099

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F8 wrecks

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@mage101 said:

@scarlet_wiccan: Currently Johnny's Nova Blast >>>> a sun's heat

> Currently? I thought that has been a thing for years.

That part has always been the case but he couldn't always produce cosmic energy or nearly restore Galactus' power with his Nova-Blast

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@kasya_carey:

Even if it is not one planet you basically just agreed with me. Several planets is still planet level. It takes 50+ planet to be considered large planet level. So you admit it's not quantifiable. Several planets, Star , Stars, solar systems and etc. How do we know what Johnny compares to?

What I meant it's never been quantified exactly how much power he needs to restore his power when he's starving since he doesn't normally say he's fully fed after consuming a planet, star, ect

His normal flames hurting Silver Surfer is Pis just like Storm hitting SS with lighting multiple times. Also SS Issue 15 proves how inferior Johnny is to SS.

I'm not saying he's superior to SS, or could beat him in a fight, I'm saying he has burned him on several occasions without using Nova heat which should realistically be more credible than Storm tanking Vulcan's attack once

The problem is I was using Vulcan statement about temperature/heat. Didn't state he was using the full power of the sun. Just like Johnny don't believe he is ever using the full power of a supernova since he can barely maintain it for a long time. Calc has him at planet level with it.

Johnny also has plenty of statements specificallylly comparing his flames' temperature/heat to a supernova's heat and intensity which is vastly better than Vulcan's statement

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Also do you know what feat got calculated to planet level because he's constantly growing stronger so his upper limits is bound to change over time

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destinyman75

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#20 destinyman75  Online

In the end Sue and the Hulk are left standing eveyone has already made the match ups

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jay_z94

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F8 definitely win the team fight with Sue and Hulk as MVPs.

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kasya_carey

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@kasya_carey:

Even if it is not one planet you basically just agreed with me. Several planets is still planet level. It takes 50+ planet to be considered large planet level. So you admit it's not quantifiable. Several planets, Star , Stars, solar systems and etc. How do we know what Johnny compares to?

What I meant it's never been quantified exactly how much power he needs to restore his power when he's starving since he doesn't normally say he's fully fed after consuming a planet, star, ect

His normal flames hurting Silver Surfer is Pis just like Storm hitting SS with lighting multiple times. Also SS Issue 15 proves how inferior Johnny is to SS.

I'm not saying he's superior to SS, or could beat him in a fight, I'm saying he has burned him on several occasions without using Nova heat which should realistically be more credible than Storm tanking Vulcan's attack once

The problem is I was using Vulcan statement about temperature/heat. Didn't state he was using the full power of the sun. Just like Johnny don't believe he is ever using the full power of a supernova since he can barely maintain it for a long time. Calc has him at planet level with it.

Johnny also has plenty of statements specificallylly comparing his flames' temperature/heat to a supernova's heat and intensity which is vastly better than Vulcan's statement

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Also do you know what feat got calculated to planet level because he's constantly growing stronger so his upper limits is bound to change over time

Well for one he doesn't maintain the energy output for a long time even in its early stages of a supernova last between a few hours-couple of days. Then you have statements like his nova blast could shatter a small moon. Meaning the AP/DC is no where near an actual supernova just the intensity of the heat.

Storm has withstood the heat of hell, the full power of the sun (meaning not just its heat but gravity, Nuclear force, electromagetic field and more), using the power of millions of stars at once, Storm clone with no experience survived creating a red sun and more. Now she did all this without being instantly disintegrated.

Also when Storm joined FF, Johnny was blasting SS and directed everything back to Storm. Which caught her off guard and she was ok. Meaning Johnny hurting SS with normal flames is PIS. Along with the fact I don't believe Johnny would hold back against serious SS either. Someone who can consume stars just to feed Galactus. Johnny who also needed an amp of the power cosmic of SS powers just to try and take out stardust.

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thedailybagel

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#23 thedailybagel  Moderator

  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue
  3. Human Torch vs Storm
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops
  6. Hulk vs Colossus
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik no clue

Individual fights edge towards X-Men but as a team I think the F8 win really handily. Sue plus Hulk seems like way too much.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#24  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@kasya_carey:

Well for one he doesn't maintain the energy output for a long time even in its early stages of a supernova last between a few hours-couple of days. Then you have statements like his nova blast could shatter a small moon. Meaning the AP/DC is no where near an actual supernova just the intensity of the heat.

His Nova Blast has never had the AP/DC of a real supernova, he simply increases the temperature of his flames to the level of a supernova and the small moon statement has nothing to do with the temperature and more to do with the concussive force of the blast and is from the 80's so it's not applicable to him currently

Storm has withstood the heat of hell, the full power of the sun (meaning not just its heat but gravity, Nuclear force, electromagetic field and more), using the power of millions of stars at once, Storm clone with no experience survived creating a red sun and more. Now she did all this without being instantly disintegrated.

Can you see why it's hypocritical for you to say something Johnny has done on multiple occasions is PIS but Storm doing random stuff once is somehow valid?

Also when Storm joined FF, Johnny was blasting SS and directed everything back to Storm. Which caught her off guard and she was ok. Meaning Johnny hurting SS with normal flames is PIS. Along with the fact I don't believe Johnny would hold back against serious SS either. Someone who can consume stars just to feed Galactus. Johnny who also needed an amp of the power cosmic of SS powers just to try and take out stardust.

In-character he won't intentionally try to burn his enemies much less a close friend like Silver Surfer (unless stated otherwise) and he has repeatedly said he usually has to hold back when in proximity to humans plus you can't use decades old feats to discredit someone who constantly grows stronger and got repeated amps in 2012. One instance where he wasn't serious doesn't discredit him doing it multiple other times (The first time he burned him with a near-Nova attack, then twice while he was angry and the last time was in 2018 when he was near his current powerlevels) plus I don't see how him needing an amp to take on a herald is a bad thing

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  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok - Havok
  2. Thing vs Rogue - Rogue due to absorption
  3. Human Torch vs Storm - 50/50 since Storm has ways to win but she's definitely not surviving a morals off Nova Blast
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto - Sue is just superior in all the ways that matter in a fight plus she's a lot more competent
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops - Wolverine I think
  6. Hulk vs Colossus - Hulk
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler - I think Spider-Man's Spider-Sense gives him the edge
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik - I'm not sure what a morals off Ghost Rider can do

The team fight could go either way but I'm leaning towards the F8 due to much better teamwork and experience which in the past has given them advantages in fights against bigger teams plus they have Hulk who is incredibly hard to put down

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  1. Mr. Fantastic vs Havok - Reed
  2. Thing vs Rogue - Rogue
  3. Human Torch vs Storm - 50/50
  4. Invisible Woman vs Magneto - Sue
  5. Wolverine vs Cyclops - Logan after a very long fight; no holding back Scott is scary but he just can't put him down
  6. Hulk vs Colossus - Hulk
  7. Spider-Man vs Nightcrawler - Spidey due to spider sense and superior stats
  8. Ghost Rider (Ketch) vs Magik - probably Magik

Team fight could go either way but leaning towards F8 with Sue and Hulk being MVPs.

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Mage101

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@mage101 said:

@scarlet_wiccan: Currently Johnny's Nova Blast >>>> a sun's heat

> Currently? I thought that has been a thing for years.

That part has always been the case but he couldn't always produce cosmic energy or nearly restore Galactus' power with his Nova-Blast

Oh, right.

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Darth_Nimrod

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#29  Edited By Darth_Nimrod

Havok beats Mister Fantastic; Rogue beats Thing; can go either way; Invisible Woman beats Magneto; Cyclops beats Wolverine; Hulk beats Colossus even with Juggernaut powers; Spider-Man beats Nightcrawler and Magik beats Ghost Rider. As for the team fight, Fantastic 8 win.

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NovaPrime2

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Bump

Appreciate the bump.

Care to give your thoughts.