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#1 Posted by lubub55 (12875 posts) - - Show Bio

Ser Bronn of the Blackwater

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Euron Greyjoy

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Rules:

  • Random encounter
  • No prior knowledge
  • In character
  • Standard equipment
  • Winner is by death
  • Television versions

Location:

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#3 Posted by the_red_viper (12569 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron is Bronn but stronger and more savage. He should win, though I'mma have to wait to rewatch the new scene on YouTube to give you a 100% verdict.

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#4 Edited by rogueshadow (29165 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron looked like a beast. Like a smaller Sandor. He could win. I'll need to rewatch the fight.

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#5 Posted by lubub55 (12875 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, I expected overwhelming support in Bronn's favour.

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#6 Posted by Xerolot (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't remember Euron feats. Is he really a smaller Sandor?

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#7 Posted by lubub55 (12875 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerolot: Have you seen tonight's episode?

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#8 Posted by rogueshadow (29165 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:

Damn, I expected overwhelming support in Bronn's favour.

Hype is a powerful thing.

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#9 Posted by Xerolot (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55: Oh there's a new episode of game of thrones! Damn I forgot it is today. I'll watch it later and I'll be back.

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#10 Posted by lubub55 (12875 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually think that Bronn wins this.

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#11 Posted by AbelHsu (3533 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn wins,Euron's feats are not enough to overwhelm him for now.

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#12 Posted by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron was beating those snakeskin girls because he was just a lot bigger and stronger than them. Not sure if that would work here. Killing people in a big melee isn't that big a deal.

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#13 Posted by destinyman75 (13886 posts) - - Show Bio

Eurin is a talented brawler but he's not beating Bronn of the blackwater, he's far more skilled

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#14 Posted by xtreme1 (4106 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight and I think Bronn wins because he's the more skilled, methodical, and disciplined fighter. My vote could change after Euron gets more feats.

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#15 Posted by rogueshadow (29165 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn for now.

Euron has the potential to win as we see more of him, he beat Nym and Obara without his weapon of choice (axe was stuck in some other guy) and proceeded to beat the shit out of Yara, he's definitely not to be messed with.

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#16 Posted by 20damon (6038 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn for now.

Euron has the potential to win as we see more of him, he beat Nym and Obara without his weapon of choice (axe was stuck in some other guy) and proceeded to beat the shit out of Yara, he's definitely not to be messed with.

This.

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#17 Posted by buildhare (8612 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron's performance against the Sand-snakes was better than Bronn's, honestly by quite a bit. I'm kind of disappointed to see people defaulting to Bronn.

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#18 Posted by RabumAlal (4866 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron destroyed the Sand Snakes. He has a decent chance of winning this.

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#19 Posted by PeterParkerJr (6767 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:

I actually think that Bronn wins this.

Me too. It'd be a tough fight, though.

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#20 Edited by deactivated-59c0eef934dfe (918 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron.

EDIT:actually, I'd say Bronn.

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#21 Posted by rogueshadow (29165 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron's performance against the Sand-snakes was better than Bronn's, honestly by quite a bit. I'm kind of disappointed to see people defaulting to Bronn.

Bronn outright said he didn't like fighting little girls (or something to that effect), I very much got the impression that he was holding back, even just looking at the fight, it really never seems like Bronn is legitimately trying to kill them. Euron also had the advantage of being on a ship where he has lived for years; in other words he has better sea legs than the Sand Snakes, that might have been a factor.

I don't think you should fall into A > B > C logic in GoT, style and equipment matter a lot.

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#22 Posted by the_red_viper (12569 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: GoT works by a rock/paper/scissors logic very often.

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#23 Posted by TheSuperor (6262 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn

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#24 Posted by Xerolot (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm I would say Bronn. Euron was not that impressive. He killed two sand snakes but he didn't outskilled them. He used his armor and strength in very effective way. It was mostly 1vs1 because whip is a useless weapon against armored opponent.

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#25 Posted by theendgame (902 posts) - - Show Bio

They should rap battle.

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#26 Edited by xSniperWolfiex (681 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn stomps

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#27 Posted by Necromancer76 (3769 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron. Bronn stalemated one Sand Snake, Euron killed two.

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#28 Posted by buildhare (8612 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Bronn outright said he didn't like fighting little girls (or something to that effect), I very much got the impression that he was holding back, even just looking at the fight, it really never seems like Bronn is legitimately trying to kill them.

I have to disagree with you here, he went for several killing slashes (but failed to land them). He might not have been as berserk as Euron trying to kill them but he wasn't holding back.

Euron also had the advantage of being on a ship where he has lived for years; in other words he has better sea legs than the Sand Snakes, that might have been a factor.

The ship didn't seem to be rocking that much (probably because it had another ship attached to stabilise it), we can't prove it was anything more than a negligible factor.

I don't think you should fall into A > B > C logic in GoT, style and equipment matter a lot.

Bronn's style is well suited to fighting the sand snakes on paper, he's just as fast, more skilled and an even dirtier fighter. Euron basically has all of those same edges except he could be a bit slower and is obviously stronger. I know Euron's armour was more bulky then Bronn's clothes but the way they used the whip on Bronn (wrapping it around his arm) would have worked just as well on Euron if they were able to land it.

Euron is stronger, has better equipment, just as skilled and at the absolute worst slightly slower. He has every advantage needed to win this fight, I don't see the reason in backing Bronn even if we ignore the direct contrast between their two most comparable feats.

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#29 Posted by pastepotpete1 (3330 posts) - - Show Bio

i would pick euron because he killed two of those females like nothing .. bronn was losing plus he had to beg them to give him a andidote

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#30 Posted by ginman333 (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight. Book this would be Bronn easy. Still leaning towards Bronn, but Euron had a good showing. I need to rewatch Bronns fight with the Sand Snakes, but I got the feeling he was holding back a bit in that fight.

Gonna rewatch both scenes and then Ill come back with my official vote.

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#31 Edited by buildhare (8612 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably worth reiterating that Euron was unarmed for almost all of his fight against the Sand snakes as well.

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#32 Posted by ginman333 (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

Soooo, rewatched both scenes. Im not going to go against Bronn just yet. Bronn fought 2 sand snakes, including the one I think is the best of the three (the dagger wielding one - I forget their names) plus the whip one from the start, in what I would call more favorable conditions for the SS. Euron fought two as well, but no.2 came in a bit later (not by much, you can almost claim it as most of the fight) and I feel he fought the 2nd and 3rd best and not the best of the three. I still feel like Bronn was holding back a bit - they werent looking for a fight. Additionally, the whip one was in a totally open arena with Bronn whereas it would be far more difficult to properly use the whip on the ship among combat everywhere. Now, on the flip side, Bronn was also well rested when he fought the snakes and Euron had already engaged for a period of time, which is impressive. Plus, even after the snakes he manages to best Yara in 1v1.

Perhaps most importantly is that we've seen Bronn clown around Jamie (1 hand) who still held his own against the spear wielding sand snake, who gave Euron a decent fight.

@buildhare - I disagree that he was unarmed most of the fight. He was unarmed for a matter of seconds before he took the spear girl's weapon. After he killed her he was unarmed for a matter of moments before he used the whip against the whip girl. All this in an environment that doesnt lend itself well when it comes to those weapons (a confined space) It took them much longer to disarm Bronn under more favorable conditions.

Good fight, but for now my vote still slightly edges in Bronn's favor based on TV. Again, if using books, its an easy win for Bronn.

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#33 Posted by phillip33 (3913 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron. I actually made the comparison as I was watching I remembered that bronn hadn't done so well against the sand snakes. That made what euron did all the more impressive to me.

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#34 Posted by buildhare (8612 posts) - - Show Bio

@ginman333:

I disagree that he was unarmed most of the fight. He was unarmed for a matter of seconds before he took the spear girl's weapon. After he killed her he was unarmed for a matter of moments before he used the whip against the whip girl.

Disarming and beating your opponents with their own weapons, while unarmed, is extremely impressive. He launched maybe one strike with the spear (it's cut by a scene transition) but otherwise only used their weapons purely as finishing moves.

All this in an environment that doesnt lend itself well when it comes to those weapons (a confined space)

The deck of a ship is far from a confined space.

It took them much longer to disarm Bronn under more favorable conditions.

They disarmed him before the fight had even begun by surprising him while his axe was embedded in someone else's skull, that's not comparable to disarming someone in an actual fight. I'm glad you brought up them struggling to disarm Bronn, because it should remind you that despite being armed he failed to gain any kind of advantage over the Sand Snakes, whereas Euron had no such issue.

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#35 Posted by Laiks Stake (1243 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn for now.

Euron only feat is beat 3 girls and scare a eunuch, even I could beat 3 girls and a eunuch.

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#36 Posted by ScotticusRex (620 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll take Bronn's skill and sleazy tactics over the almost featless flavor of the week.

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#37 Posted by ginman333 (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

1) Seems like a better feat to keep your own weapon much longer.

2) The deck of the ship was WAY more confined. Watch the fight again. Bronn was in a completely open courtyard.

3) They surprised Bronn and Jamie as well. Bronn didnt even have his sword pulled when they attacked him.

The best SS Euron bested was the spear wielder who had a tough time 1v1 versus a 1 handed Jamie and we know Bronn clowns Jamie.

@ginman333:

I disagree that he was unarmed most of the fight. He was unarmed for a matter of seconds before he took the spear girl's weapon. After he killed her he was unarmed for a matter of moments before he used the whip against the whip girl.

Disarming and beating your opponents with their own weapons, while unarmed, is extremely impressive. He launched maybe one strike with the spear (it's cut by a scene transition) but otherwise only used their weapons purely as finishing moves.

All this in an environment that doesnt lend itself well when it comes to those weapons (a confined space)

The deck of a ship is far from a confined space.

It took them much longer to disarm Bronn under more favorable conditions.

They disarmed him before the fight had even begun by surprising him while his axe was embedded in someone else's skull, that's not comparable to disarming someone in an actual fight. I'm glad you brought up them struggling to disarm Bronn, because it should remind you that despite being armed he failed to gain any kind of advantage over the Sand Snakes, whereas Euron had no such issue.

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#38 Posted by buildhare (8612 posts) - - Show Bio

@ginman333:

1) Seems like a better feat to keep your own weapon much longer.

It would be if Euron losing it had anything to do with the fight itself, he lost it beforehand, so it doesn't.

2) The deck of the ship was WAY more confined. Watch the fight again. Bronn was in a completely open courtyard.

At no point did anyone have their movement restricted in any form. A stadium is far more confined than the moon, does it matter at all? Nope.

3) They surprised Bronn and Jamie as well. Bronn didnt even have his sword pulled when they attacked him.

Okay.

The best SS Euron bested was the spear wielder who had a tough time 1v1 versus a 1 handed Jamie and we know Bronn clowns Jamie.

She only had a tough time because Jamie finally started to realise he could use his new hand to his advantage. In his fight's against Bronn he was truly fighting with one hand, there's a big difference. Regardless none of the Sand Snakes seem to be significantly better than any of the others, it's their gear that makes a difference (and the tiny knives the SS was using against Bronn < Obara's spear).

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#39 Edited by ginman333 (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

Go back and watch the fights. Against Bronn the whip using SS is swinging the whip around her head. Shes flailing around quite a bit with her attacks. In the fight with Euron shes largely slapping just forward. Shes obviously very confined compared to how she was swinging the whip in an open environment. Just go back and watch.

Also, again, watch the fights again. The whip user gets one snap on Euron and pulls him towards the spear user. After that, its 1v1 the entire time. The whip user gets distracted by the battle and is engaged with someone else. They were both fully engaged with Bronn the entire fight. EDIT: Sorry, Whip Girl gets one more slap in midway through the fight and then gets distracted again. Point still stands. Largely 1v1. Obvious distractions and confined environment.

Well agree to disagree on no.3. Jamie used his other hand 2x in the fight against the sand snake in a fight that lasted over a minute. And Bronn seems to get the advantage on Jamie in seconds.

@buildhare said:

@ginman333:

1) Seems like a better feat to keep your own weapon much longer.

It would be if Euron losing it had anything to do with the fight itself, he lost it beforehand, so it doesn't.

2) The deck of the ship was WAY more confined. Watch the fight again. Bronn was in a completely open courtyard.

At no point did anyone have their movement restricted in any form. A stadium is far more confined than the moon, does it matter at all? Nope.

3) They surprised Bronn and Jamie as well. Bronn didnt even have his sword pulled when they attacked him.

Okay.

The best SS Euron bested was the spear wielder who had a tough time 1v1 versus a 1 handed Jamie and we know Bronn clowns Jamie.

She only had a tough time because Jamie finally started to realise he could use his new hand to his advantage. In his fight's against Bronn he was truly fighting with one hand, there's a big difference. Regardless none of the Sand Snakes seem to be significantly better than any of the others, it's their gear that makes a difference (and the tiny knives the SS was using against Bronn < Obara's spear).

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#40 Edited by rogueshadow (29165 posts) - - Show Bio

@buildhare said:

@rogueshadow:

Bronn outright said he didn't like fighting little girls (or something to that effect), I very much got the impression that he was holding back, even just looking at the fight, it really never seems like Bronn is legitimately trying to kill them.

I have to disagree with you here, he went for several killing slashes (but failed to land them). He might not have been as berserk as Euron trying to kill them but he wasn't holding back.

Euron also had the advantage of being on a ship where he has lived for years; in other words he has better sea legs than the Sand Snakes, that might have been a factor.

The ship didn't seem to be rocking that much (probably because it had another ship attached to stabilise it), we can't prove it was anything more than a negligible factor.

I don't think you should fall into A > B > C logic in GoT, style and equipment matter a lot.

Bronn's style is well suited to fighting the sand snakes on paper, he's just as fast, more skilled and an even dirtier fighter. Euron basically has all of those same edges except he could be a bit slower and is obviously stronger. I know Euron's armour was more bulky then Bronn's clothes but the way they used the whip on Bronn (wrapping it around his arm) would have worked just as well on Euron if they were able to land it.

Euron is stronger, has better equipment, just as skilled and at the absolute worst slightly slower. He has every advantage needed to win this fight, I don't see the reason in backing Bronn even if we ignore the direct contrast between their two most comparable feats.

Considering Euron's incredible sea legs have been well established (when he killed Balon on the swaying bridge in the storm), I wouldn't cal it negligible. And I don't think Euron has displayed anywhere near Bronn's speed or dexterity in combat yet, and Bronn has established he can exploit armour. What did Euron do to make you think he's stronger? They seem about the same size, he might have done something I'm forgetting though.

They did actually land it, she wraps her whip around his neck at one point and hits him with it another time IIRC. Not sure about him being better suited either, not disagreeing on that point I'm just genuinely not sure.

I went back and watched the fight and while you're right he did slice at Nym a couple of times (not necessarily indicating that he was trying to kill her, recall how Jaime slices at Ned even though he knew he couldn't kill him or Tyrion would die; in such instances I assume such moves were calculated to allow the opponent to dodge, more used to out maneuver them than kill them) I'm even more convinced Bronn wasn't trying that hard, hell when Tyene first goes at him he's casually blocking her blows with his blade only halfway out; that's indicative of a pretty enormous skill gap. Compare how he fights there to how brutal he was at Blackwater or against the Mountain tribes, there's a really noticeable difference imo.

I still think I need to see more of Euron before I give him the victory over Bronn.

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#41 Posted by ginman333 (2977 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by the_wspanialy (3902 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn for now, in a good fight.

Euron fought the girls one-on-one, while having equipment and environmental advantage. Bronn fought with two of them simultaneously, while being taken by surprise and with worse equipment than Euron.

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#43 Posted by PhoenixTitan (831 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn, because Euron got poisoned on the ship and will die soon.

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#44 Posted by Thelastwarrior (356 posts) - - Show Bio

Euron defeat and kill the sand snakes.

Bronn no .

So Euron>Bronn

Euron win

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#45 Posted by Thelastwarrior (356 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronn for now, in a good fight.

Euron fought the girls one-on-one, while having equipment and environmental advantage. Bronn fought with two of them simultaneously, while being taken by surprise and with worse equipment than Euron.

You must see the scene again

Euron was attacking IN THE BACK By Nymeria
And Obara acame directly to help her sister
Euron kick Nymeria out Then he kills Obara with his own spear
Obara returns to attack him after killing a random Ironborn
And euron kills her with her own whip

Bronn failed to kill Nymeria was alone against her for several seconds

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#46 Edited by lubub55 (12875 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#47 Edited by AsianAntics (695 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll say Bronn. I was surprised to see this only come up near the end of the debate but the entire fight, Bronn is not hit a single time. He gets effectively double teamed and holds his own against SS 1 &amp;amp; 3 for about half of the fight until Areo Hotah came. Only then was he cut in one of the most minor areas and poisoned later that day.

Euron was ambushed by the SS just like Jaime and Bronn, in a navel battle where his troops are murdering the Iron Islands turncoats. He is hit from behind and loses his weapon due to just killing fodder. This is VERY important due to the fact that Euron not only holds his own against Nymeria and Obara, but because he also kills them (with their own weapons). I think this is to show more of Greyjoy's battle prowess and experience to where he can kill you with not only another weapon but your own weapon.

The problem here is that it WAS a tight space. The stadium to the moon comparison was valid but you also have to state that the stadiums COMPLETELY full of Ironborn trying to kill eachother. This puts a strain on both SS as their respective weapons are more area based (a spear and a whip) whereas Bronn and Jaime are in a completely open courtyard with nothing obstructing their movement / effectiveness. Due to these circumstances, the SS could not effectively work as a unit as Tyene and Nymeria did against Ser Bronn.

Note that this ambush was not prepared for and the Sand Snakes did not properly poison their weapons. Tyene almost kills Bronn with her poison but doesn't have it ready for this fight in particular. Now we don't know if they all poison their weapons but they heavily idealize their father and I wouldn't he surprised if they did. Euron gets hit several time by Obara and if the poison were active he would be very dead unlike Ser Bronn of the fookin' Blackwater.

The fight was under different conditions with different fighters where Euron had his advantages and Bronn had his disadvantages. If we compare their strengths Bronn is quite clearly the victor.

-Euron is more savage in his fights while Bronn is level minded

-Bronn can effectively avoid strikes while Euron just buffs his adrenaline which is a double edged sword

-Euron is shown to be effective with multiple weaponry while Bronn is a sell sword where it's in his contract to be versatile

Ser Bronn of the Blackwater def. Lord Euron Greyjoy

Sorry for the more basic post, the phone version of comicvine is pretty limited.

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#48 Edited by Jotun (199 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump, I think this is a good fight.

Bronn fought two Sand Snakes almost the entire time, unlike Euron who fought two temporarily and then one at a time. Plus, Bronn fought a different daughter compared to Euron who could arguably seen as more skilled. On top of this, Euron was heavily wounded in the fight unlike Bronn who ended it with a single cut to his arm though for arguments sake, it might have ended differently had it not been interrupted.

I think Euron definitely has the means to win and might surprise Bronn, but I think Bronn would take it.

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#49 Posted by JediXMan (42376 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's closer than some people think. Their respective showings against the Sand Snakes aren't necessarily comparable. They fought Euron in his environment - at sea, on a ship rocking in the waves. He can fight at sea where others couldn't. When Bronn fought the Sand Snakes, he was in their terrain (I also think Bronn jobbed a little).

Euron might win, but it would be a close fight.

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