Etrigan vs Wonder Woman

From this angle it looks like you have extensive knowledge on one character

Thanks.

if he isn't on her level of speed, he won't be able to land any hits,

I think he's somewhere in that class since he's been fast enough to not have trouble hitting Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Superboy and others. For some people that may not be enough to cement his speed but when we add that Superman and others have commented on his speed being fast and no characters have ever commented on his speed being slow we start to understand that he's on a high level of speed.

even if those hits are heavy enough to send Superman to the moon, they aren't going to damage her considering she easily recovered from getting hit from the moon to earth and even managed to recover from getting hit from the Sun to earth

That is misleading since that punch Superman hit her with knocked her out and she only regained consciousness because of the heat of re-entry. I'm sure that a guy who trades blows with Superman and Lobo over the course of like 6 fights will not have trouble in the striking department against her. That's not to say that he'd one shot her or anything like that. I'm just saying the punches would obviously be painful and cause some type of damage.

regardless, his hardest hits don't seem to match up to what she's tanked or who she's tanked hits from,

He's hurt Superman and Lobo with his punches and has shattered Alan Scott's shields. Seriously, his punches not doing damage isn't a going to be a problem.

not to mention his hellfire is moot, she's withstood hestias fire, Zeus's divine lightning fire, angel/holy fire .... and the fires of Hades

Yes, his hell fire won't work on her. But luckily he's not limited to just hell fire.

there is no reason to side with Etrigan

For all of those reasons, I side with Etrigan.

Fact is, her feats completely out-strip his by a wide margin, they are incomparable in raw or combat speed feats. Nothing changes that, the fact that he has no raw feats to compare to hers suggest she operates on a higher level more often than not.

Not misleading since she was not physically deterred from recovering mere seconds later, it equates to getting knocked down in that scenario.....Wonder Woman trades blows with Superman and Captain Marvel, as much as their blows hurt, she fought them at their full strength while they were blood lusted and while she held back (if only barely). As much damage as he could cause, he doesn't hit as hard as they do at their best and the damage he would put out isn't going to cause her serious damage unless she allowed him to do so. Like I said even if he landed hits, it wouldn't do much, reason being, her defense.

When he punches those Braces, he will get no sold

So.....what reasons?

Fact is, her feats completely out-strip his by a wide margin, they are incomparable in raw or combat speed feats. Nothing changes that, the fact that he has no raw feats to compare to hers suggest she operates on a higher level more often than not.

Again, I'm not arguing that he's faster than her. Just that he has never had a problem tagging anyone he's fought including Wonder Woman, Superman, Martian Manhunter and everyone else in the respect thread I made.

Not misleading since she was not physically deterred from recovering mere seconds later, it equates to getting knocked down in that scenario.....Wonder Woman trades blows with Superman and Captain Marvel, as much as their blows hurt, she fought them at their full strength while they were blood lusted and while she held back (if only barely). As much damage as he could cause, he doesn't hit as hard as they do at their best and the damage he would put out isn't going to cause her serious damage unless she allowed him to do so. Like I said even if he landed hits, it wouldn't do much, reason being, her defense.

Fact is she was unconscious. I'm not dogging her for it, I'm just stating a fact. I don't know man, I have trouble believing that Etrigan can hurt beings like Superman, Lobo, Eclipso and the Phantom Stranger but can't do very much damage to Wonder Woman.

When he punches those Braces, he will get no sold

I agree. But he's managed to tag her before so that won't be an insurmountable problem for him.

So.....what reasons?

The reasons I keep mentioning.

None of them made an effort to dodge, plus both Superman and Wonder Woman were caught off guard just about every time as Etrigan was the aggressor, I could make an argument for several characters much slower who have no reason to touch either but are allowed so until I see actual combat speed feats that compare to Diana's consistently better ones, there is no reason to suggest he can tag her without her intentional engagement in this thread

Fact is, a boxer who losses consciousness doesn't count as a loss, considering the factors (Bloodlusted Superman in the sun) you don't have a point beyond her losing consciousness, she tanked that hit and kept fighting, her nervous system wasn't fine but she recovered fully within seconds, that said, Etrigan cannot replicate that kind of force or damage...I'm inclined to suggest that Eclipso was unharmed besides having his physical appearance marred since he casually replied with annoyance and shot Etrigan away......Diana can block Etrigan without effort or damage

By tagging you mean grabbing, which isn't actually landing a hit especially since she didn't attempt to dodge either time.....That said, Diana has tagged Flash and Zoom more than Etrigan has tagged her with a punch, in fact I don't believe he's ever actually punched her so by your logic, his only plan of attack as far as tagging her goes is a bull rush, which wont even work due to her reaction feats, unless you're suggesting his two bull rushes negate her superior reaction speed and skill? I hope not...

You haven't mentioned any ways he could possibly stand a chance let alone win

@yarva: On a side note, very few of Etrigan's magic based advantages will hold any weight here, including his magic punches claws, blasts and spells due to her vast experience and near invulnerability to many forms of magic....meanwhile she has divine hax in her lasso, bracers and tiara which can all effect Etrigan with success regardless of his healing factor, not to mention Zeus lightning

None of them made an effort to dodge, plus both Superman and Wonder Woman were caught off guard just about every time as Etrigan was the aggressor, I could make an argument for several characters much slower who have no reason to touch either but are allowed so until I see actual combat speed feats that compare to Diana's consistently better ones, there is no reason to suggest he can tag her without her intentional engagement in this thread

You say none of them made an effort to dodge without knowing what they're thinking and I don't like to say things I don't know for sure when debating but I'll play your style and say they didn't dodge because they weren't fast enough. The combat speed feats are in my Etrigan respect thread. I linked you about an hour ago. Until you can show conclusive evidence of why you think he can't tag her, my evidence of course stands and there is no reason to believe otherwise.

Fact is, a boxer who losses consciousness doesn't count as a loss, considering the factors (Bloodlusted Superman in the sun) you don't have a point beyond her losing consciousness, she tanked that hit and kept fighting, her nervous system wasn't fine but she recovered fully within seconds, that said, Etrigan cannot replicate that kind of force or damage...I'm inclined to suggest that Eclipso was unharmed besides having his physical appearance marred since he casually replied with annoyance and shot Etrigan away......Diana can block Etrigan without effort or damage

I wasn't trying to make a point beyond that. I was just saying she was unconscious and didn't regain consciousness until the heat of re-entry woke her up 92.96 million miles after she was hit. Etrigan doesn't need to match Superman feats to hurt Wonder Woman. He definitely has the striking feats to show he can hurt her and I haven't even gotten into his magical prowess.

By tagging you mean grabbing, which isn't actually landing a hit especially since she didn't attempt to dodge either time.....That said, Diana has tagged Flash and Zoom more than Etrigan has tagged her with a punch, in fact I don't believe he's ever actually punched her so by your logic, his only plan of attack as far as tagging her goes is a bull rush, which wont even work due to her reaction feats, unless you're suggesting his two bull rushes negate her superior reaction speed and skill? I hope not...

I will play your game again and say she didn't attempt to dodge because she wasn't fast enough to do it. Good for her. Great speed feats for her. I find it odd that I've mentioned people that he's tagged like Superman, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman herself and yet you Donald Trump it and ignore it like I never said it.

You haven't mentioned any ways he could possibly stand a chance let alone win

Weird, I thought I had. Here, let me try again: I think he can beat her in a fist fight and I think he can definitely beat her by using his magic.

On a side note, very few of Etrigan's magic based advantages will hold any weight here, including his magic punches claws, blasts and spells due to her vast experience and near invulnerability to many forms of magic

If you can show me feats of her specifically being immune to the exact magic attacks I bring up later then I will of course admit defeat in that area.

meanwhile she has divine hax in her lasso, bracers and tiara which can all effect Etrigan with success regardless of his healing factor

Of course they can hurt him. But he'll just heal.

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Reacting to Flash after being tagged

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Reacting to Amazo heat vision and Darkseid Omega beams

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Reacting to actual lightning

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Reacting with Hermes speed to speed blitz super computer processing units

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Casual speed blitz (Powergirl is faster than Etrigan btw)

Faster than thought (synapse)

I can keep going...........I think it's safe to say he is nowhere near as fast nor has feats comparable to any of these....

The point you were making was irrelevant since she tanked that hit and regardless of re-entry, was able to recover from that hit, re-entry only allowed her to recover faster. Moot point, and yes, Etrigan needs to be able to fight at that level to stand a chance here....which he cannot do due to a lack of comparable feats, my point is that she recovered from that, which you called misleading

Funny how you compare my lack of acknowledgement to your point to Donald Trump, you completely ignored the fact that he was allowed to tag them for the sake of the comic, just because he tagged them there, doesn't mean either was fighting at their best like how they are expected to here, just because he was allowed to tag them in a comic doesn't constitute as a speed feat since it is relatively inconsistent with their consistent speed feats.....we can clearly acknowledge that he is slower than them in every conceivable way and yet you chose to ignore their feats in regards to those instances......

Etrigan has no way to tag Diana considering her consistent feats, and his magic will never get past her bracers, all she has to do to win is incapacitate him with the lasso....which considering his inferior speed, should be easier than it was for her to do to Amazo who had all the leagues powers combined

I'm not showing you feats of her being immune to magic, I stated she had near invulnerability to many forms of magic, which includes resistance to high order magic such as Hades death blows, Circe's magic, Zeus's lightning, Holy fire etc which I can definitely provide feats for.....

Regardless of his healing factor, he has no answer to being ensnared by the lasso and has no answer for the bracers, not to mention getting decapitated...I bet he can heal from it, but he has never fought without a head, that counts as KO

Diana her gear and massive speed advantage give her the win.

Diana.

I can keep going...........I think it's safe to say he is nowhere near as fast nor has feats comparable to any of these....

I'll say it for a third time; I'm not attempting to prove that he is faster than her. What I have clearly been saying is that he is fast enough to tag her since he's done it before and even hit Superman who is faster than she is.

The point you were making was irrelevant since she tanked that hit and regardless of re-entry, was able to recover from that hit, re-entry only allowed her to recover faster.

Not at all. The point I was making is completely relevant since she was knocked out and if you get knocked out here in the battle forums you lose. You tried to make it sound like it was nothing but in fact she was unconscious. That's an L here in the battle forums. The whole re-entry part is what is irrelevant. It doesnt matter that she lived which of course would mean that she would eventually regain consiousness, but that doesn't matter since if that battle took place in the battle forums she would have lost the battle right then and there by the rules.

you completely ignored the fact that he was allowed to tag them for the sake of the comic

Since it doesn't say that anywhere at all and there is absolutely zero reason to believe this, to most people it will sound like a homer statement. Let's avoid making baseless comments like this and stick to facts, ok?

Etrigan has no way to tag Diana considering her consistent feats,

Excpet he's tagger her already and other even faster than she is. Speed isn't a problem.

and his magic will never get past her bracers,

By its very nature magic can do whatever he makes it do. It doesn't even have to be a projectile. He can just send her back in time and she's royally fooked.

all she has to do to win is incapacitate him with the lasso....which considering his inferior speed,

Damn it, you got me there. If only Etrigan had teleportation, oh that's right, he does.

And I'll say it again, that's irrelevant for at least 5 reasons ending in she's too fast for him, unless you want me to argue the fact that she's tagged Zoom and Flash and therefore makes Etrigan tagging her PIS...unless you want to rely on PIS as an argument, fine with me....

Okay I'll end this now, the fight didn't even start until after she hit the ground since only Superman was engaged in the battle, she wasn't fighting back until after she cracked his eardrums and stated she was barely holding back....so by forum rules, that whole speed blitz to the sun wasn't a fight at all since both characters must be fighting at their best via the rules, what counts as a loss is Superman getting his neck slit while charging at her and being unable to even counterattack.....so now there's that....call it a cop out, but you milked the forum rules so milk it all. Not a loss if it ain't a fight

Take your own advice, he's never tagged anyone faster than Diana and speed is a major problem here, to say otherwise is the definition of baseless since she's clearly faster in every way...Ironic though.....

Considering it's out of character for him to send his opponents through time mid-battle, I don't see how you think that's viable.....unless you're going to argue a time he did it to an opponent as they were fighting.....I doubt you will, next

If only Diana could teleport herself and others with the lasso......oh wait, she can......Etrigan loses

And I'll say it again, that's irrelevant for at least 5 reasons ending in she's too fast for him, unless you want me to argue the fact that she's tagged Zoom and Flash and therefore makes Etrigan tagging her PIS...unless you want to rely on PIS as an argument, fine with me...

You can say it 100 times but it doesn't change the fact that the evidence is against you.

Okay I'll end this now, the fight didn't even start until after she hit the ground since only Superman was engaged in the battle, she wasn't fighting back until after she cracked his eardrums and stated she was barely holding back....so by forum rules, that whole speed blitz to the sun wasn't a fight at all since both characters must be fighting at their best via the rules, what counts as a loss is Superman getting his neck slit while charging at her and being unable to even counterattack.....so now there's that....call it a cop out, but you milked the forum rules so milk it all. Not a loss if it ain't a fight

Absolutely none of that matters. You said that Etrigan couldn't replicate Superman's strength and I said that he didn't need to in order for him to just simply hurt Wonder Woman. Then you talked about Wonder Woman "tanking Superman's hit that shot her from the sun to earth" , which I then called out as the bull shit it is since she got knocked out by that hit. That's not tanking.

Take your own advice, he's never tagged anyone faster than Diana and speed is a major problem here, to say otherwise is the definition of baseless since she's clearly faster in every way...Ironic though.....

Speed isn't a problem at all since he's tagged her just fine and has tagged people faster than her like Superman multiple times each and every fight they've had. Saying otherwise is just showing an unwilling stubbornness to accept facts or ignorance of Etrigan's abilities.

Considering it's out of character for him to send his opponents through time mid-battle, I don't see how you think that's viable.....unless you're going to argue a time he did it to an opponent as they were fighting.....I doubt you will, next

He was in character when he did it. It's not his go to move. But I just listed a viable option out of the myriad of ways in which he can beat her using magic.

If only Diana could teleport herself and others with the lasso......oh wait, she can......Etrigan loses

LOL you just talked about out of character moves and now this statement. Wow. Yea, the more you reply to me the more I'm convinced he would beat her. I am literally shaking my head at this statement since nobody asked you if she could teleport. Nobody gives a single fook about her ability to teleport. You said that she could tie him up with her lasso and I shat on that idea by teaching you that he can teleport. So nobody here knows what relevance her being able to teleport has to this particular idea of her trying and failing to rope him in this scenario.

PIS it is

Yeah it is tanking since she easily recovered from it with minimum damage.

Lol she has better combat speed feats than Superman and easily out reacts him consistently, not only that, there are statements from several characters to support that fact including her battle with Amazo where it is stated Amazo is faster than Superman and as fast as she is.......Speed is a problem since she dodged and tagged people much faster than Etrigan and Superman, saying otherwise is blatant denial...

It wasn't in combat and you clearly ignored that and went right on to this........

Sad....if Etrigan is gonna be teleporting out of the lasso in this fight, she's teleporting too....not only that nobody cares about Etrigan teleporting since he doesn't teleport in combat, like how Diana doesn't teleport in combat....so your hypocritical tactics are still failing, go figure

PIS it is

Facts don't agree with you so you call it PIS.

Yeah it is tanking since she easily recovered from it with minimum damage.

Hey everyone we have a new definition of tanking. It's now defined as getting knocked the fook out and then later waking up because of re-entry to earth.

Lol she has better combat speed feats than Superman and easily out reacts him consistently, not only that, there are statements from several characters to support that fact including her battle with Amazo where it is stated Amazo is faster than Superman and as fast as she is.......Speed is a problem since she dodged and tagged people much faster than Etrigan and Superman, saying otherwise is blatant denial...

It's not a problem becaus she's tagged her and Superman who is faster than she is by feats. I'll just keep repeating it since you do nothing but keep repeating your bull shit.

It wasn't in combat and you clearly ignored that and went right on to this........

Doesn't need to be. Nor is it the only way he can deal with her. He has a myriad of ways to beat her with his magic.

Sad....if Etrigan is gonna be teleporting out of the lasso in this fight, she's teleporting too....not only that nobody cares about Etrigan teleporting since he doesn't teleport in combat, like how Diana doesn't teleport in combat....so your hypocritical tactics are still failing, go figure

Who cares if she teleports. Etrigan still whoops her because hes fast enough to tag her, strong enough to hurt her, has 1,000,000 times better regen and has magic at his disposal. Etrigan wins this about 8 out of 10 times.

LOL, this post was hilarious to read. Anyway, thanks for the entertainment. I'll end this now, I don't feel the need to be original with this next post. I mean, I did write/type every word and post every feat back then, but meh. I'll rinse and repeat it just for you, besides, I'm not about to waste too much time for a hypocrite .......

"Ranged attacks are pretty useless for obvious reasons, and at close range he isn't nearly as fast reaction wise. He might be stronger, but if so it is slightly, since Wonder Woman out muscled Hercules and has that infamous earth feat pull feat. But even so, her defenses are better than his cus she has two unbreakable objects instead of just one, and she is still much faster with them, not to mention the whole force field thing. She is consistently shown as a more skilled fighter and she has pretty good blunt damage soak as well as magic resistances, all of which would give her an advantage along with her speed and comparable strength. Although he has more magical powers, they are not as useful against someone with Wonder Woman's defensive skills. She has more magical equipment that is all around useful against someone like him, the Tiara obviously, the bracers obviously (she may not use it as offensively, but it makes almost all of his ranged attacks useless) and the Lasso again obviously (this she can end the fight with quickly and tie him up or if need be heal herself if she takes too much damage by utilizing the lasso's infinite length and keeping one end on the earth which she gets healing from thanks to Gaea's power in her)."

Wonder Woman also has an astonishing healing factor, not to mention, he is quite vulnerable to weapons that are sharp enough to cut him, like her tiara for instance....But, I see where you are coming from. I still firmly believe that Wonder Woman's speed advantage is great enough that she should be virtually untouchable, especially when coupled with her unbreakable Aegis Bracers. Travel speed alone is nice and all but it doesn't apply to a battle unless he's going to attempt to charge at her which wouldn't be the smartest thing to do, I do agree that he does have better durability and strength feats, but when he can still be cut open or decapitated and will probably not be hitting his opponent who has unbreakable bracers and insane healing factor anyway, I don't see how it's that big of a deal ..... but, I think he will do a much better job than I thought originally ... but the most I can agree on is a stalemate, otherwise I stand by Wonder Woman ...

I wonder if I should save the scans for this post or the next......hmmmmmmmm, I'll leave it here for now, *sigh* It might be a waste of time considering your posts.... luckily, I'm sure we know who wins by now

Didn't read. Etrigan should win because he's fasts enough to tag her, strong enough to hurt her, has better regen and has a wide range of magical abilities.

@ancient_0f_days: Saying Etrigan isn't fast enough to land any hits is like saying Doomsday isn't fast enough to land any hits on Superman.

Unlike Doomsday who has tagged Wally West, Wonder Woman, Superman and others while they fought at their best, Etrigan hasn't got any feats to suggest hes fast enough to tag Diana consistently, hes never fought her consistently and never actually landed any hits unlike Doomsday who outright stomped almost everyone hes ever fought......I'm surprised you'd make that comparison

Diana.

@ancient_0f_days: So because Etrigan opts to tackle rather than strike, he's slow?

Doomsday was never shown landing any strikes on Flash. He tagged him with shockwaves, an omnidirectional attack. That was their only meeting too, so I don't know if I'd call that "consistently tagging the Flash."

Etrigan has landed strikes on Superman as well, in Action Comics 762, so how does Doomsday tagging Superman make him fast while Etrigan tagging Superman (who was bullrushing at the time) slow?

Etrigan has stalemated Lobo, who has reflexes good enough to scrap battlebots in less than a panel, react faster than thought, and dodge an oncoming barrage of missiles at near light speed.

Chalk it up to PIS all you want. Etrigan wasn't even trying to harm Wonder Woman during Byrne's run as per his mistress.

I'd love to see you back pedal out of this one.

Watch me

Doomsday casually blitzed Superman on at least 2 occasions, his speed is not in question here unlike Etrigan's. I never said he's tagged Flash consistently, no need for me to backpedal there

Doomsday tagging Superman is different for the same reason Despero tagging Superman is different, both Doomsday and Despero have better speed feats than Etrigan and have tagged multiple super speed using opponents at once....

Lobo has consistently better feats but tends to go blow for blow with almost all of his opponents, he consistently leaves himself open to attacks (unlike Wonder Woman), even Superman does this and it's safe to say he doesn't go all out against Etrigan like he does with Doomsday

Wonder Woman wasn't trying to dodge Etrigan as per him not actually attacking

I have no problem with Etrigan winning, he seems to legitimately have the power/skill set to do it---

But anyone claiming he can wipe the floor with Wonder Woman, or that she has "no" chance to defeat him as well considering her combat speed, durability, fighting skills and God slaying weapons is being unreasonable.

Agreed........however, I have yet to see a valid argument from anyone supporting Etrigan. Despite his legitimate power and durability which seemingly surpasses Diana's, it's hard to see how he stands a chance at winning based on skill, speed and gear alone.

(Not saying he wins here, but since his feats aren't generally so well known)

Etrigan feats/showings.

Origin, summary, and childhood.

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VS Wonder Woman, Round 1.

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VS Wonder Woman, Round 2.

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VS Solomon Grundy.

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VS Blue Devil, Round 1.

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VS Blue Devil, Round 2.

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VS Superman, Round 1.

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VS Superman, Round 2.

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VS Superman, Round 3. Resists and usurps the power of Encantadora.

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VS Lobo, Round 1.

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VS Lobo, Round 2.

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VS Phantom Stranger.

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VS Doctor Occult, Alan Scott, Blue Devil, Martian Manhunter, Hector Hall, Ragman, and Zatanna(while tapping into the power of Stonehenge).

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Unassorted instances of grievous bodily-harm being remedied and/or shrugged-off.

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VS Batman, Round 1.

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VS Batman, Round 2.

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Along with Phantom Stranger, and Dr. Fate VS The Spectre.

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VS Alan Scott.

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VS Morgan le Fay.

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@mr-luxcipher: Now that is how you do it.....my points still stand but you know what you're doing, all I need now is for someone to put those feats into a reasonable argument that will negate her advantages in speed, skill and magic gear

@ancient_0f_days: You keep saying so-and-so is faster than Etrigan or has better speed feats but you fail at proving it. I don't even need scans. Issue number citations would suffice.

I don't cite feats by issue/vol and page when I'm lazy, sorry, you'll have to bear with loose story citations and scans for now. I already provided scans that outshine anything Etrigan has ever done for wonder woman and memory should serve the rest.

We both remember Doomsday blitzing Superman and the reserve league in DOS (even being compared to Flash by Booster) and as well as outracing, blitzing and effortlessly stopping a blitz from Superman in Doomsday Wars (with Brainiac in control but still DD speed here)...Same with Despero's feats of taking on the JLA and JSA full of kryptonians and god gifted beings with speedster level reactions at once as well as casually stopping a blitz from Flash and keeping up with Jonn in travel and reaction speed....

there's no question here that they have better combat speed feats so proving them isn't the issue, someone STILL needs to prove ANYTHING speed related for Etrigan.....not only does he have 90% brick and bruiser feats, but it's clear that both Wonder Woman and Superman didn't want to fight him in all their encounters and it's fair to say they held back on fighting all out despite both landing more hits and countering most of Etrigans, meanwhile Etrigan rarely holds back on fighting physically and is usually the aggressor....it's clear to see that even in those scans Wonder Woman and Superman use their superior speed and skill to toss Etrigan around who tends to rely on magic in order to get an opening and still struggles to land half as many hits as they do....

@ancient_0f_days: You literally said Superman's statement about Etrigan's speed holds no water then you brought up that Booster made a statement about Doomsday's speed.

And your feats for Doomsday and Despero consist solely of hitting fast characters. That's brick and bruiser as Etrigan.

Superman's statement about Etrigan being fast is based on travel speed, not reaction speed, unlike Booster's statement, considering the fact that Etrigan's speed was being attributed to how fast he traveled away after burning Superman with fire, unless we're going to entertain the notion that Etrigan's fire attack was being discussed.......

Those feats consist of Doomsday and Despero attacking at superspeeds, not solely hitting fast characters, those very feats are of both of them reacting as fast as or out reacting fast characters moving at super speed (DDvSuperman/DesperovMM) or several fast characters at once (JLA/JSA). Etrigan has no such comparable feats considering he's been constantly out reacted by both Superman and Wonder Woman who failed to do the same against either Doomsday or Despero....

Etrigan should win, but it'd be a good fight

I agree. I've posted why too and I linked my Etrigan respect thread because as we all know, most people on this site only know the extremely popular comic-book characters.

Etrigan will flog her

Still no speed argument, no surprise

@ancient_0f_days: We must be reading different comics then. Nowhere in mine did Doomsday or Despero have superspeed feats other than landing hits on fast characters. I also don't have the versions where Superman and Wonder Woman dodge everything Etrigan does.

No one said SM and WW dodge everything Etrigan does, now you're playing games, we both can see who clearly fought better in all of those fights, Etrigan landed no hits on Superman their first fight outside of the initial rush and magic, Clark landed 3, Etrigan landed 1 solid hit in the second fight, Superman landed 5 ..... Now I don't know if it's because he sucks at fighting or if he was really just too slow, but come on.....

The third fight was all over the place, but I will give Etrigan points for knocking Superman to the moon and landing an equal number of hits.....Meanwhile, Etrigan landed 0 hits physical hits on WW, period, Diana responded to his rushes with punches and kicks, Superman easily countered the majority of Etrigan's physical attacks. The super speed feats of Despero and Doomsday consist of out reacting fast characters as they use super speed, I'm pretty sure consistently out reacting fighters with super speed requires super speed, and considering no one was holding back....If you really need proof that Doomsday and Despero are faster than Etrigan, lets start with Doomsday (brainiac controlled) stopping a potential speed blitz, catching up to a speeding superman, grabbing him, and stomping him

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Not to mention he stopped heat vision with his hand after it was fired in this comic, also a super speed reaction feat. Despero legit blitzed Supergirl and used travel speed to keep up with Jonn

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I'm bringing up travel speed simply due to the fact that it is clear that they have raw speed to go along with their reaction speed, I'm not relying on them simply fighting fast characters, they clearly are the fast characters here.....Etrigan is not as fast as them and cannot be compared like how you have done, considering you brought up Doomsday to begin with and used him to compare to Etrigan in regards to speed.....Despero is someone to accurately compare to Doomsday.

Anyway, back to the fact of the matter, we both know Etrigan isn't fast or skilled enough to properly go toe to toe or blow for blow with Diana who is not only faster but a much better fighter

@ancient_0f_days: Circa post 52 of this thread (I can't quote) did you or did you not say "there is no reason to suggest he can tag her without her intentional engagement in this thread" or not?

I in fact agree that she is faster. But I take issue with suggesting he is incapable of landing any hits whatsoever. Apologies if that was not your intent.

"If gods had fallen long before to neither sword nor pagan spell but Him behind St. Peter's door, shall their children be spared Hell? For now we'd spill the blood of War, and must consider where it falls: down on the ever-burning floor, or somehow up? Toward Heaven's halls? Wonders never cease, they say, but of those wonders we behold, they're His! Both man and woman may outgrow their forms within His fold... So what's the Devil's justice then? A league with Heaven and its plan? Or is defeat to demons... sweet?" So might ponder Etrigan.

The argument for Wonder Woman is weak as shit. I debated a guy who had very little knowledge of Etrigan and still he decided to say Wonder Woman would win despite not having enough knowledge of Etrigan to make an informed decision. After I taught him a little bit he still stuck to points that made no sense after they were shown to be stupid points.

I did say so, my intent however was not only suggesting he wasn't fast enough, I'm including fighting skill as a factor here, Etrigan has none, I took that into consideration since he is fighting a master martial artist and was outplayed in boxing by Superman. I don't see how he can actually land a solid blow outside of magical HAX, he can over power her sure, but the fact that she is much faster, too skilled, and has Aegis on her wrists to block and nullify all his attacks leads me to believe that unless she directly engages him in a slug-fest he will not be able to get around her speed and skill, let alone her Aegis should he land a blow, the chances of him breaking her defense long enough to land a hit are low man, she's got every advantage besides raw power and durability ...... I'm rambling, but the point is, he can land maybe 5 hits on her, max, not even straight shots......I'm giving him that, meanwhile, she will be able to rail him with punches based on skill.

Oh please, have a seat

@ancient_0f_days: In other words, a combination of speed and skill will let her block a lot of attacks? If so, fair enough.

Yes, exactly, I was under the impression that skill was second nature for her so speed was the only thing that needed mention....sorry if it sounded like she could daftly sway around and blitz him by accident.

Etrigan wins.