The trio from the Elder Scrolls Online Cinematics (the Elf babe, the Nord super-Viking, and Breton Assassin's Creed expy) against the Wild Hunt's "big 3" of Eredin, Caranthir, and Imlerith.
@shroudofsorrow: As you know my knowledge of the witcher is limited, but from what I do know I would say that any of the TES trio should be comparable to Geralt if not better. Doubt wild hunt trio would be able to best them
almost felled by two arrows. Yeesh. :/ Doesn't help Advent much
TES "debaters" here tend to highball their favorite verse while downplaying everything else. They love to bring "lore" when it's convenient for them, but when others try to bring "lore" of other verses (like God of War), suddenly it's a no-no.
It's best to ignore them, for the sake of your sanity.
@shroudofsorrow: As you know my knowledge of the witcher is limited, but from what I do know I would say that any of the TES trio should be comparable to Geralt if not better. Doubt wild hunt trio would be able to best them
The Elf has more powerful overall magic than Geralt (though a more hardcore Witcher fan may contest even that), and the Breton has archery skills that Geralt lacks. But in terms of overall fighting ability, I'm not sure I agree that the ESO trio are all Geralt+ level. Geralt has a longer string of victories against a greater variety of opponents, including things like Wyverns, Basilisks, Elementals of different types, and even beating a Higher Vampire in a one on one at least twice (Detlaff in Blood and Wine and the one Higher Vampire encountered in the base game). I don't recall any combat feats from the ESO trio to suggest any of them individually have anything better than that.
But then, all of the Wild Hunt leaders are also sub-Geralt, which is what makes me think this should be a close fight: I would put Geralt over any of them individually (either trio would wreck him).
@shroudofsorrow: I mean unless everyone who's ever told me about Geralt are severly holding back information and he's severly above the level one sees in the trailers, I don't think an elf who can bust city walls (and still spam spells after) at her peak capacity being above Geralt in power is something one can contest
And while Geralt might have more feats, the trio each no-diffing groups of trained soldiers, killing daedra, the Nord stomping a swarm of werewolves, Breton's insane agility, and the Nord himself tagging super-speed vampires should all show that at the bare minimum they're at his level. The Nord himself is implied to have killed a Vampire Lord which had an army of vampires and werewolves in the room with him, the Nord only having help of Lyris Titanborn, who judging by the trailers is roughly his equal.
Considering the trio basically lost to that Breton Knight, who is basically inferior to all 3 of the wild hunt members…they lose hardcore.
The Knight has no anti feats that scales down he only scales to them and based on feats
The three of them are physical peers who can arrow time or if you wanna stretch lightning time and the Breton Knight had no issue reacting to three of them at once
Lets not forget that the Nord overpowered a werewolf which can bust through stone and is as strong as vampires which can punch through steel plate but the Nord couldn't even draw blood after punching the Elf.
Breton Knight would clap these fodder, even Geralt would be bottom mid tier in the ES verse.
@shroudofsorrow: I mean unless everyone who's ever told me about Geralt are severly holding back information and he's severly above the level one sees in the trailers, I don't think an elf who can bust city walls (and still spam spells after) at her peak capacity being above Geralt in power is something one can contest
Her biggest feat of magic was something she did when chained up as a prisoner and forced to go all out. It isn't a level of power she's using in general. The level of power she exhibits more generally is still arguably better than Geralt's signs, but that's why I said it might be contested. I myself am not too determined to argue it either way.
And while Geralt might have more feats, the trio each no-diffing groups of trained soldiers, killing daedra, the Nord stomping a swarm of werewolves, Breton's insane agility, and the Nord himself tagging super-speed vampires should all show that at the bare minimum they're at his level. The Nord himself is implied to have killed a Vampire Lord which had an army of vampires and werewolves in the room with him, the Nord only having help of Lyris Titanborn, who judging by the trailers is roughly his equal.
1) No-diffing trained soldiers is hardly beyond the capabilities of a Witcher of Geralt's tier (and in fact he's done it repeatedly)
2) Concerning the Breton's agility and the Nord tagging Vampires...those are also pretty within Geralt's range I'd say. He too has fought, tagged, and beaten superhuman Vampires, so I really see no difference there. In agility, he was reacting to crossbow bolts as early as Blaviken, which is well before his peak.
I still am not seeing anything that puts them at a higher tier, personally.
almost felled by two arrows. Yeesh. :/ Doesn't help Advent much
TES "debaters" here tend to highball their favorite verse while downplaying everything else. They love to bring "lore" when it's convenient for them, but when others try to bring "lore" of other verses (like God of War), suddenly it's a no-no.
It's best to ignore them, for the sake of your sanity.
Given that the main person advocating ESO trio here is unironically arguing that Geralt and the Wild Hunt trio are "pitchfork level" / "sub-pitchfork level fodder", I'm seeing the truth in what you say.
@shroudofsorrow: Actually it's Geralt who is Pitchfork level the other three he beat are Sub-Pitchfork level fodder and you have some serious audacity to compare fodder to ES Midtiers.
Geralt actually gets killed by a pitchfork from a dirty malnourished peasant and couldn't even be saved by one of Witcher verses high tiers because he died too quick from his injuries.
You have to be beyond delusional if you think three fodders that got stomped by a guy that can get killed by a wooden pitchfork are going to be a threat to Elder Scrolls champions which eat attacks that cut through steel and blast down boulder sized formations with little injury.
@advent_: No, not delusional. Just not cherrypicking a low showing from a version of Geralt inferior to the one who fought the Wild Hunt trio and arguing in bad faith the way you are. And given your very obvious biases that is the only response I'm going to give you.
Geralt is a powerful superhuman (by real world standards). Especially with mutations from Regis at the end of B&W. But in order to fight, for example, with the Nord, Geralt would have to be the version after Blood and Wine, which would have to drink potions before the fight. Otherwise, I don't think Geralt has any chance against any of the Trio, let alone 3v1.
Geralt was trying to actively stop that man and pretty much decided to spare him , if Geralt wanted to he could've ashed him at any point with an igni or Blitzed him at any point , and either way thats piercing , Naruto characters can be pierced and stabbed by Kunais , does not mean they are sub kunai level in power but thats because its called piercing , either way I will see the Altmer Mage taking it overall , vaporizing two armoured soldiers in one attack in like a second is no small feat and she has the speed feats and scaling as well.
@shroudofsorrow: I mean unless everyone who's ever told me about Geralt are severly holding back information and he's severly above the level one sees in the trailers, I don't think an elf who can bust city walls (and still spam spells after) at her peak capacity being above Geralt in power is something one can contest
Her biggest feat of magic was something she did when chained up as a prisoner and forced to go all out. It isn't a level of power she's using in general. The level of power she exhibits more generally is still arguably better than Geralt's signs, but that's why I said it might be contested. I myself am not too determined to argue it either way.
The Altmer also survived that Ligntning , all at once going through her while it completely cracked the city wall , and when the Nord mage pulled the city wall down when the altmer cracked using his Telekenesis the force of that ripped Deadra soldiers to pieces , fully armoured , trained soldiers who would be easily superhuman and considering the Nord mage and altmer both know Telekenesis ( she used it to ragdoll few Daedras ) and after breaking free she easily killed the Nord mage , she could probably replicate his Telekenesis as well which Geralt won't really be able to counter or resist.
almost felled by two arrows. Yeesh. :/ Doesn't help Advent much
TES "debaters" here tend to highball their favorite verse while downplaying everything else. They love to bring "lore" when it's convenient for them, but when others try to bring "lore" of other verses (like God of War), suddenly it's a no-no.
It's best to ignore them, for the sake of your sanity.
Given that the main person advocating ESO trio here is unironically arguing that Geralt and the Wild Hunt trio are "pitchfork level" / "sub-pitchfork level fodder", I'm seeing the truth in what you say.
eh don't really bother with the other guy , he is the type of dude who would argue something hilariously incorrect ( saitama beating Alduin ) and then derail the entire thread , go off topic , repeat himself thousand times even if debunked each , would take jabs the entire time and then eventually insult the other debater's mental health because he didn't agree with his fanfiction about TES and actively debunked it with canon information , it just seems his hatred for witcher trumps his hatred for TES.
@shroudofsorrow: I mean unless everyone who's ever told me about Geralt are severly holding back information and he's severly above the level one sees in the trailers, I don't think an elf who can bust city walls (and still spam spells after) at her peak capacity being above Geralt in power is something one can contest
Well, depending on the player's choice, Geralt can beat Keira Metz, who participated in this:
‘Right now,’ continued Philippa, ‘the Witcher Geralt is somewhere in Ebbing. Along with Yennefer and Ciri, whom he freed. We ought to ponder over how to find them—’
‘And that castle?’ Sabrina Glevissig interrupted. ‘Haven’t you forgotten something, Philippa?’
‘No, no I haven’t. The legend, if it should arise, ought to have a single, faithful version. Thus I’d like to ask you to do it, Sabrina. Take Keira and Triss with you. Sort out the matter. So that no trace remains.’
***
The roar of the explosion was heard as far away as in Maecht, and the flash-since it took place at night- was visible even in Metinna and Geso. The series of further tectonic shocks were perceptible even further away. At the remotest ends of the world.
The Lady of the Lake
The small group of scholars, constantly being joined by more scholars greedy to see the fruits of Oppenhauser’s thirty years of labours, briskly covered the distance separating them from the laboratory of the famous physicist. They were just about to open the door when the ground suddenly shook. Perceptibly. Powerfully, actually. Very powerfully, actually.
It was a seismic wave, one of the series of earthquakes caused by the destruction of Stygga Castle, Vigefortz’s hide-out, by the sorceresses. The seismic wave had come all the way to Oxenfurt from distant Ebbing.
Dozens of pieces of glass exploded with a crash from the stained-glass window on the frontage of the Department of Fine Arts. The bust of Nicodemus de Boot, the academy’s first rector, scrawled over with rude words, fell from its plinth. The cup of herb tea with which Rotten Eggs was washing down his roll and forcemeat fell from the table. A first-year physics student, Albert Solpietra, fell from a plantain tree in the academy grounds that he had climbed to impress some female medical students.
And while Geralt might have more feats, the trio each no-diffing groups of trained soldiers, killing daedra, the Nord stomping a swarm of werewolves, Breton's insane agility, and the Nord himself tagging super-speed vampires should all show that at the bare minimum they're at his level. The Nord himself is implied to have killed a Vampire Lord which had an army of vampires and werewolves in the room with him, the Nord only having help of Lyris Titanborn, who judging by the trailers is roughly his equal.
No-diffing groups of trained soldiers? Really, mate?
Stomping? Hardly. And these are the same werewolves that can be taken down with a single arrow. Plus, he had Lyris helping him. Indeed, she did most of the work.
Agility?
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This is the level of agility expected from a blindfolded witcher trainee, let alone from a fully trained and mutated witcher with over a hundred years of practice. So even if you think the Breton's agility is superior, it's not by some enormous margin.
The same Nord dude who failed to react to an arrow?
I hardly think the Nord's mere appearance in following trailers is an indication of him (and Lyris) winning.
almost felled by two arrows. Yeesh. :/ Doesn't help Advent much
TES "debaters" here tend to highball their favorite verse while downplaying everything else. They love to bring "lore" when it's convenient for them, but when others try to bring "lore" of other verses (like God of War), suddenly it's a no-no.
It's best to ignore them, for the sake of your sanity.
Given that the main person advocating ESO trio here is unironically arguing that Geralt and the Wild Hunt trio are "pitchfork level" / "sub-pitchfork level fodder", I'm seeing the truth in what you say.
Yeah.
OT, the Wild Hunt wins. Their scaling from Geralt puts them well above this trio, especially in terms of speed. The Nord in particular is a weak link, his raw strength is literally the only thing he brings to the table. Meanwhile, even Imlerith is a teleporter who has no qualms about abusing this to his advantage. Their teleportation will also come in handy against the Altmer's magic.
Caranthir can also summon ice elementals, giving his team a numerical advantage. Hell, Caranthir can potentially solo by freezing them. It's well within his capabilities and his MO.
@shroudofsorrow: I mean unless everyone who's ever told me about Geralt are severly holding back information and he's severly above the level one sees in the trailers, I don't think an elf who can bust city walls (and still spam spells after) at her peak capacity being above Geralt in power is something one can contest
Well, depending on the player's choice, Geralt can beat Keira Metz, who participated in this:
‘Right now,’ continued Philippa, ‘the Witcher Geralt is somewhere in Ebbing. Along with Yennefer and Ciri, whom he freed. We ought to ponder over how to find them—’
‘And that castle?’ Sabrina Glevissig interrupted. ‘Haven’t you forgotten something, Philippa?’
‘No, no I haven’t. The legend, if it should arise, ought to have a single, faithful version. Thus I’d like to ask you to do it, Sabrina. Take Keira and Triss with you. Sort out the matter. So that no trace remains.’
***
The roar of the explosion was heard as far away as in Maecht, and the flash-since it took place at night- was visible even in Metinna and Geso. The series of further tectonic shocks were perceptible even further away. At the remotest ends of the world.
The Lady of the Lake
The small group of scholars, constantly being joined by more scholars greedy to see the fruits of Oppenhauser’s thirty years of labours, briskly covered the distance separating them from the laboratory of the famous physicist. They were just about to open the door when the ground suddenly shook. Perceptibly. Powerfully, actually. Very powerfully, actually.
It was a seismic wave, one of the series of earthquakes caused by the destruction of Stygga Castle, Vigefortz’s hide-out, by the sorceresses. The seismic wave had come all the way to Oxenfurt from distant Ebbing.
Dozens of pieces of glass exploded with a crash from the stained-glass window on the frontage of the Department of Fine Arts. The bust of Nicodemus de Boot, the academy’s first rector, scrawled over with rude words, fell from its plinth. The cup of herb tea with which Rotten Eggs was washing down his roll and forcemeat fell from the table. A first-year physics student, Albert Solpietra, fell from a plantain tree in the academy grounds that he had climbed to impress some female medical students.
And while Geralt might have more feats, the trio each no-diffing groups of trained soldiers, killing daedra, the Nord stomping a swarm of werewolves, Breton's insane agility, and the Nord himself tagging super-speed vampires should all show that at the bare minimum they're at his level. The Nord himself is implied to have killed a Vampire Lord which had an army of vampires and werewolves in the room with him, the Nord only having help of Lyris Titanborn, who judging by the trailers is roughly his equal.
No-diffing groups of trained soldiers? Really, mate?
i didn't ever argue that it was outside his range did I?
Stomping? Hardly. And these are the same werewolves that can be taken down with a single arrow. Plus, he had Lyris helping him. Indeed, she did most of the work.
Refering to the much bigger werewolves in the first ESO trailer, not the dark heart of skyrim. Lyris also killed roughly the same amount of werewolves as he did.
This is the level of agility expected from a blindfolded witcher trainee, let alone from a fully trained and mutated witcher with over a hundred years of practice. So even if you think the Breton's agility is superior, it's not by some enormous margin.
Thats still well within entirely human capacity. Nothing like the Breton arrow-dodging repeatedly while hanging from a rope, jumping off said rope to grab onto two still-moving harpoons, etc.
I hardly think the Nord's mere appearance in following trailers is an indication of him (and Lyris) winning.
They're in a locked room with a vampire lord, an army of vampires, an army of werewolves, and more werewolves on the other side of the locked door, all intent on killing them. Its the most reasonable assumption.
Refering to the much bigger werewolves in the first ESO trailer, not the dark heart of skyrim. Lyris also killed roughly the same amount of werewolves as he did.
This is the level of agility expected from a blindfolded witcher trainee, let alone from a fully trained and mutated witcher with over a hundred years of practice. So even if you think the Breton's agility is superior, it's not by some enormous margin.
Thats still well within entirely human capacity. Nothing like the Breton arrow-dodging repeatedly while hanging from a rope, jumping off said rope to grab onto two still-moving harpoons, etc.
Can't say I've ever seen or heard of a human doing this while blindfolded.
How is changing hands and balancing one's body not within human capacity? And for all we know, the Breton has been doing this preemptively, not as a pure reaction.
"jumping off said rope to grab onto two still-moving harpoons" is not a matter of agility, it's a matter of timing and strength.
Harder to judge Advent for lowballing when both sides do so
Right, because me picking one of, what, all three of the Nord's speed "feats" is totally the same as Advent picking one of dozens of Geralt's durability feats...
They're in a locked room with a vampire lord, an army of vampires, an army of werewolves, and more werewolves on the other side of the locked door, all intent on killing them. Its the most reasonable assumption.
How is that reasonable to assume when they had difficulties fighting a couple of werewolves?
Can't say I've ever seen or heard of a human doing this while blindfolded.
How is changing hands and balancing one's body not within human capacity? And for all we know, the Breton has been doing this preemptively, not as a pure reaction.
"jumping off said rope to grab onto two still-moving harpoons" is not a matter of agility, it's a matter of timing and strength.
Jumping off a rope while dodging arrows, doing a spin and landing on two very thin moving objects to then instantly connect it into a jump above them and onto the bridge that follows definitively is a matter of agility lol
Harder to judge Advent for lowballing when both sides do so
Right, because me picking one of, what, all three of the Nord's speed "feats" is totally the same as Advent picking one of dozens of Geralt's durability feats...
The instance you're refering to is the Nord getting hit by arrows hitting him side-ways while he's trying to run forwards without attempting to dodge them. Thats no better than to argue that Geralt is sub peasant because he got killed by one since he was not willing to kill him.
Circumstances aside, arguing that the Nord is that slow doesn't work the instant he beats casual arrow-timer Breton in a direct fight, competes both with him and arrow-timer elf beforehand at once, tags super-speed vampires, etc. It is lowball since its an attempt of making someone seem unimpressive (dies to arrows/dies to pitch fork) when they are infact highly impressive (kills werewolves, vampires, dremora, etc/beats vampires, wyverns, etc). And lowball is always something we should work to avoid.
They're in a locked room with a vampire lord, an army of vampires, an army of werewolves, and more werewolves on the other side of the locked door, all intent on killing them. Its the most reasonable assumption.
How is that reasonable to assume when they had difficulties fighting a couple of werewolves?
"Difficulties" when neither as much got a scratch from the encounter. Not to mention that its a repeated thing that protagonists will "struggle" in an encounter against lesser opponents only to then win a much tougher encounter afterwards (off the top of my mind; Geralt, John Wick, Aragorn, the altmer at first struggling with melee dremora and then stomping multiple of them, etc.)
Harder to judge Advent for lowballing when both sides do so
Right, because me picking one of, what, all three of the Nord's speed "feats" is totally the same as Advent picking one of dozens of Geralt's durability feats...
The instance you're refering to is the Nord getting hit by arrows hitting him side-ways while he's trying to run forwards without attempting to dodge them. Thats no better than to argue that Geralt is sub peasant because he got killed by one since he was not willing to kill him.
So your argument is that the Nord let himself be hit? All characters go out of their way to at least attempt to dodge arrows coming their way, but the Nord is, all of a sudden, the sole exception? I'm sorry but that's a baseless assumption.
By contrast, the circumstances of Geralt's death have been known for decades at this point:
‘Mercy!’ an unkempt young man with crazy eyes fell on his knees in front of him. ‘Spare me!’
Geralt spared him, stopped the movement of his arm and sword, using the momentum intended for the blow to spin away. Out of the corner of his eye he saw the unkempt youth spring to his feet and saw what he was holding. Geralt interrupted the turn to spin back the other way.
But he was stuck in the crowd. He was stuck in the crowd for a split second. All he could do was watch as the three-fanged fork flew towards him.
The Lady of the Like
Apples to oranges.
And once again, the Nord's speed "feats" can be counted on fingers of one hand. Me picking one of them is not a lowball. I'm working on what I've been provided. It's hardly my fault I've been provided with precious little.
Circumstances aside, arguing that the Nord is that slow doesn't work the instant he beats casual arrow-timer Breton in a direct fight, competes both with him and arrow-timer elf beforehand at once, tags super-speed vampires, etc. It is lowball since its an attempt of making someone seem unimpressive (dies to arrows/dies to pitch fork) when they are infact highly impressive (kills werewolves, vampires, dremora, etc/beats vampires, wyverns, etc). And lowball is always something we should work to avoid.
I have yet to see the Breton (or the Altmer for that matter) perform a clear-cut arrow-timing. And that didn't prevent the Nord and Lyris from being tagged by werewolves, who are most certainly not arrow-timers. The speed feats of the trio are, at best, highly contradictory (generously speaking).
Funnily enough, the only feat of super-speed those vampires performed was blitzing some fodder and... the Nord and Lyris. That's a bit of circular logic, don't you think?
They're in a locked room with a vampire lord, an army of vampires, an army of werewolves, and more werewolves on the other side of the locked door, all intent on killing them. Its the most reasonable assumption.
How is that reasonable to assume when they had difficulties fighting a couple of werewolves?
"Difficulties" when neither as much got a scratch from the encounter. Not to mention that its a repeated thing that protagonists will "struggle" in an encounter against lesser opponents only to then win a much tougher encounter afterwards (off the top of my mind; Geralt, John Wick, Aragorn, the altmer at first struggling with melee dremora and then stomping multiple of them, etc.)
Harder to judge Advent for lowballing when both sides do so
Right, because me picking one of, what, all three of the Nord's speed "feats" is totally the same as Advent picking one of dozens of Geralt's durability feats...
The instance you're refering to is the Nord getting hit by arrows hitting him side-ways while he's trying to run forwards without attempting to dodge them. Thats no better than to argue that Geralt is sub peasant because he got killed by one since he was not willing to kill him.
So your argument is that the Nord let himself be hit? All characters go out of their way to at least attempt to dodge arrows coming their way, but the Nord is, all of a sudden, the sole exception? I'm sorry but that's a baseless assumption.
By contrast, the circumstances of Geralt's death have been known for decades at this point:
‘Mercy!’ an unkempt young man with crazy eyes fell on his knees in front of him. ‘Spare me!’
Geralt spared him, stopped the movement of his arm and sword, using the momentum intended for the blow to spin away. Out of the corner of his eye he saw the unkempt youth spring to his feet and saw what he was holding. Geralt interrupted the turn to spin back the other way.
But he was stuck in the crowd. He was stuck in the crowd for a split second. All he could do was watch as the three-fanged fork flew towards him.
The Lady of the Like
Apples to oranges.
And once again, the Nord's speed "feats" can be counted on fingers of one hand. Me picking one of them is not a lowball. I'm working on what I've been provided. It's hardly my fault I've been provided with precious little.
No its that the guy who can fight fine with two arrows in his chest anyways is more focused on reaching Mannimarco to win the siege than focusing on avoiding being hit by arrows... arrows he can tank just fine.
Unlike Geralt who couldn't tank a pitch fork ;)
(To be clear I am not arguing Geralt is sub peasant/pitch fork, I'm just showing how saying Nord is useless since he got tagged by arrows is just as bad as arguing that geralt died to a pitch fork).
It is lowball when one completely disregards the other acchievements of not only the Nord, but the other characters he has faced and met by saying that their feats are limited to a level they're clearly not at.
I have yet to see the Breton (or the Altmer for that matter) perform a clear-cut arrow-timing. And that didn't prevent the Nord and Lyris from being tagged by werewolves, who are most certainly not arrow-timers. The speed feats of the trio are, at best, highly contradictory (generously speaking).
Funnily enough, the only feat of super-speed those vampires performed was blitzing some fodder and... the Nord and Lyris. That's a bit of circular logic, don't you think?
On that, I agree.
If we must devolve this conversation into a hype battle rather than an actual discussion of the abilities of the characters, then here, we see him avoid an arrow thats already right infront of his face:
Oh and for further hype battle practices, here's Breton reacting to lightning!
We have it all! Can't wait to see the well-known Geralt lightning-timer hype!
Or you know we could simply take characters for what they are instead.
I have yet to see the Breton (or the Altmer for that matter) perform a clear-cut arrow-timing. And that didn't prevent the Nord and Lyris from being tagged by werewolves, who are most certainly not arrow-timers. The speed feats of the trio are, at best, highly contradictory (generously speaking).
Funnily enough, the only feat of super-speed those vampires performed was blitzing some fodder and... the Nord and Lyris. That's a bit of circular logic, don't you think?
Again neglecting context! The nord was clearly and obviously knocking away the first three werewolves before they even reached him. The only reason he started to get tagged was because multiple came at once.
Its also wrong to say that the werewolves are not arrowtimers, when its fully likely they do have the speed to do so. But these are mutated werewolves trapped in golems by vampires who demostrate none of the intelligence we see from Skyrim werewolves.
TL:DR; you can be fast enough to dodge an arrow, and not do so because you're running in a straight line and will be hit anyways. None of the werewolves tried to dodge it.
The only super-speed feat of the vampires is actually showing that they have super-speed visibly. Its like saying: Flash has terrible super-speed in S1 E1 of the show; he's only faster than regular humans! Its not circular if we can visibly see them moving super-fast.
Tell me with a straight face that their victory was in any way implied. The common trope argument doesn't cut it here.
Three vampires in their first encounter and in an ambush. And them having "their hands full" is fancy wording for each taking a single hit, then taking a moment to adjust and killing them easily without taking another. Which again brings me back to: "Geralt is not pitch fork level! There's context! Oh but lets neglect context to make TES sound weak!" And the werewolves needed five to pin Lyris down temporarily, doing zero damage in the context and ending with her throwing off all of them at once.
It does once we stop lowball.
Not to mention that: The Nord, the Altmer, the Breton, are all just characters meant to represent the Vestige. As for the Vampire in the trailer; Its the Ashen Lord; Rada al-Saran; AKA a boss that the Vestige does beat.
The instance you're refering to is the Nord getting hit by arrows hitting him side-ways while he's trying to run forwards without attempting to dodge them. Thats no better than to argue that Geralt is sub peasant because he got killed by one since he was not willing to kill him.
So your argument is that the Nord let himself be hit? All characters go out of their way to at least attempt to dodge arrows coming their way, but the Nord is, all of a sudden, the sole exception? I'm sorry but that's a baseless assumption.
By contrast, the circumstances of Geralt's death have been known for decades at this point:
‘Mercy!’ an unkempt young man with crazy eyes fell on his knees in front of him. ‘Spare me!’
Geralt spared him, stopped the movement of his arm and sword, using the momentum intended for the blow to spin away. Out of the corner of his eye he saw the unkempt youth spring to his feet and saw what he was holding. Geralt interrupted the turn to spin back the other way.
But he was stuck in the crowd. He was stuck in the crowd for a split second. All he could do was watch as the three-fanged fork flew towards him.
The Lady of the Like
Apples to oranges.
And once again, the Nord's speed "feats" can be counted on fingers of one hand. Me picking one of them is not a lowball. I'm working on what I've been provided. It's hardly my fault I've been provided with precious little.
No its that the guy who can fight fine with two arrows in his chest anyways is more focused on reaching Mannimarco to win the siege than focusing on avoiding being hit by arrows... arrows he can tank just fine.
Unlike Geralt who couldn't tank a pitch fork ;)
(To be clear I am not arguing Geralt is sub peasant/pitch fork, I'm just showing how saying Nord is useless since he got tagged by arrows is just as bad as arguing that geralt died to a pitch fork).
It is lowball when one completely disregards the other acchievements of not only the Nord, but the other characters he has faced and met by saying that their feats are limited to a level they're clearly not at.
That's... great? And? Is it now about who is tankier and not about arrow-timing?
If by sub-pitch fork you mean Geralt can be injured by a pitch fork then yes, he obviously can be. I've never said otherwise. He can take an obscene amount of blunt force trauma, but he's affected by slashing and piercing weapons just like any other man. If by sub-pitch fork you mean that a random peasant with pitch firk can consistently get the better of him... well, then we're going to have a problem xD
I've never claimed the Nord is "useless". In fact, I've never claimed that he can't arrow time. I've merely pointed out his blatant anti-feat, and yet you're adamant about disregarding it. Have you considered the possibility that my "lowballing" might not be the issue here?
I have yet to see the Breton (or the Altmer for that matter) perform a clear-cut arrow-timing. And that didn't prevent the Nord and Lyris from being tagged by werewolves, who are most certainly not arrow-timers. The speed feats of the trio are, at best, highly contradictory (generously speaking).
Funnily enough, the only feat of super-speed those vampires performed was blitzing some fodder and... the Nord and Lyris. That's a bit of circular logic, don't you think?
On that, I agree.
If we must devolve this conversation into a hype battle rather than an actual discussion of the abilities of the characters, then here, we see him avoid an arrow thats already right infront of his face:
Oh and for further hype battle practices, here's Breton reacting to lightning!
We have it all! Can't wait to see the well-known Geralt lightning-timer hype!
Or you know we could simply take characters for what they are instead.
How the hell is asking for a clear-cut feat devolving into a hype battle? It's the exact opposite.
Haven't you noticed the part where the Breton is already in motion? This is not the clear-cut arrow timing I've been asking for.
This is, at best, an implied lightning-timing, since this is not a continuous shot. Imagine keeping up with a lightning-timer just to get tagged by arrows. Either this lightning was sub-arrow in speed, or those arrows were relativistic or something.
You're obviously not interested in discussing Geralt's lightning-timing stuff, but since you've brought up a vague feat (and it is Eredin and co who should be the main focus here anyway), here you go. Two can play that game:
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(Sorry for posting videos instead of gifs, Comic Vine just refuses to allow me to upload gifs.)
Pray tell, what are they? And who gets to decide that? Apparently, we have different opinions. Neither for the first, nor the last time, I'm sure. You can, you know, simply accept that instead of getting worked up for no reason and going all sarcastic on me. I really don't want this conversation to turn out this way.
I have yet to see the Breton (or the Altmer for that matter) perform a clear-cut arrow-timing. And that didn't prevent the Nord and Lyris from being tagged by werewolves, who are most certainly not arrow-timers. The speed feats of the trio are, at best, highly contradictory (generously speaking).
Funnily enough, the only feat of super-speed those vampires performed was blitzing some fodder and... the Nord and Lyris. That's a bit of circular logic, don't you think?
Again neglecting context! The nord was clearly and obviously knocking away the first three werewolves before they even reached him. The only reason he started to get tagged was because multiple came at once.
Its also wrong to say that the werewolves are not arrowtimers, when its fully likely they do have the speed to do so. But these are mutated werewolves trapped in golems by vampires who demostrate none of the intelligence we see from Skyrim werewolves.
TL:DR; you can be fast enough to dodge an arrow, and not do so because you're running in a straight line and will be hit anyways. None of the werewolves tried to dodge it.
The only super-speed feat of the vampires is actually showing that they have super-speed visibly. Its like saying: Flash has terrible super-speed in S1 E1 of the show; he's only faster than regular humans! Its not circular if we can visibly see them moving super-fast.
Well, it shouldn't really matter for someone capable of beating a "casual arrow-timer" to deal with a bunch of blatant non-arrow-timers, right? If all it takes to pin him to the ground is two of those working in tandem, that's still not painting a pretty picture.
No, it's not. They have no feats of reacting to arrows, on the contrary, they are getting tagged and one-shotted by them. It's funny how you accuse me of neglecting context and then come up with something like this. "Likely" doesn't cut it, mate.
True. But there's nothing to suggest this applies to the werewolves. Maybe they are simply too slow to react to dodge them. Maybe it's just that simple.
Tell me with a straight face that their victory was in any way implied. The common trope argument doesn't cut it here.
Three vampires in their first encounter and in an ambush. And them having "their hands full" is fancy wording for each taking a single hit, then taking a moment to adjust and killing them easily without taking another. Which again brings me back to: "Geralt is not pitch fork level! There's context! Oh but lets neglect context to make TES sound weak!" And the werewolves needed five to pin Lyris down temporarily, doing zero damage in the context and ending with her throwing off all of them at once.
It does once we stop lowball.
Not to mention that: The Nord, the Altmer, the Breton, are all just characters meant to represent the Vestige. As for the Vampire in the trailer; Its the Ashen Lord; Rada al-Saran; AKA a boss that the Vestige does beat.
What ambush? After fodder#1 got killed, they went into a defensive formation before the actual attack begin, it's not like the vampires just started blitzing out of nowhere. If anything, they've got a free warning that their enemy is fast.
And a single hit was enough to bring either to their knees. And yet here you are claiming that the Nord and Lyris (who was blatantly more impressive of the two, btw.) were implied to win against an army of those things, aided by an army of other creatures which have proven to be a nuisance on their own in far lesser numbers, and led by Rada al-Saran.
I'm sorry to say that, but this is just painful to read.
That's... great? And? Is it now about who is tankier and not about arrow-timing? [1]
If by sub-pitch fork you mean Geralt can be injured by a pitch fork then yes, he obviously can be. I've never said otherwise. He can take an obscene amount of blunt force trauma, but he's affected by slashing and piercing weapons just like any other man. If by sub-pitch fork you mean that a random peasant with pitch firk can consistently get the better of him... well, then we're going to have a problem xD
I've never claimed the Nord is "useless". In fact, I've never claimed that he can't arrow time. I've merely pointed out his blatant anti-feat [2], and yet you're adamant about disregarding it. Have you considered the possibility that my "lowballing" might not be the issue here?
1 It is not about either; its about whether or not its lowball to use them against the character. In both cases there are heavy circumstances behind the encounter, in both cases it does not imply that that would consistently happen to them in a different situation, and therefore in both cases its lowball.
2 The context of the argument is that:
- I say:
[...] the Nord stomping a swarm of werewolves, Breton's insane agility, and the Nord himself tagging super-speed vampires should all show that at the bare minimum they're at his level. [...]
- You say:
The same Nord dude who failed to react to an arrow?
Which is a clear attempt of saying that: Nord tagging super-speed vampires is unimportant since he can't arrow-time. You don't need to outright state something when the intent is clear. And responding to multiple combat feats by mentioning a single circumstantial "low showing" is exactly what lowball is, much like how saying "everything geralt/WH does is irrelevant since he died to a pitch fork".
I have yet to see the Breton (or the Altmer for that matter) perform a clear-cut arrow-timing. And that didn't prevent the Nord and Lyris from being tagged by werewolves, who are most certainly not arrow-timers. The speed feats of the trio are, at best, highly contradictory (generously speaking).
Funnily enough, the only feat of super-speed those vampires performed was blitzing some fodder and... the Nord and Lyris. That's a bit of circular logic, don't you think?
On that, I agree.
If we must devolve this conversation into a hype battle rather than an actual discussion of the abilities of the characters, then here, we see him avoid an arrow thats already right infront of his face:
Oh and for further hype battle practices, here's Breton reacting to lightning!
We have it all! Can't wait to see the well-known Geralt lightning-timer hype!
Or you know we could simply take characters for what they are instead.
How the hell is asking for a clear-cut feat devolving into a hype battle? It's the exact opposite. [1]
Haven't you noticed the part where the Breton is already in motion? This is not the clear-cut arrow timing I've been asking for. [2]
This is, at best, an implied lightning-timing, since this is not a continuous shot. Imagine keeping up with a lightning-timer just to get tagged by arrows. Either this lightning was sub-arrow in speed, or those arrows were relativistic or something. [3]
You're obviously not interested in discussing Geralt's lightning-timing stuff [4], but since you've brought up a vague feat (and it is Eredin and co who should be the main focus here anyway) , here you go. Two can play that game: [5]
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(Sorry for posting videos instead of gifs, Comic Vine just refuses to allow me to upload gifs.) [6]
Pray tell, what are they? And who gets to decide that? Apparently, we have different opinions. Neither for the first, nor the last time, I'm sure. You can, you know, simply accept that instead of getting worked up for no reason and going all sarcastic on me. I really don't want this conversation to turn out this way. [7]
1. When in every appearance in their first trailers (which based on your comments its clear you've seen) they dodge and block arrows, and while I won't say Advent's case is at all accurate he's already shown scans of arrow-reacting in this thread, and its clear that arrow-timing is within their capabilities, AND you keep trying to downscale with lowball then will eventually have to turn into a hype battle.
2. I fail to see how you would dodge an arrow without moving. The thing that matters is that the arrow is already right infront of him by the time he starts to move away and he still moves away before it hits. The arrow hits instantly after that single frame.
3. I believe you're throwing sarcasm back but just to be clear: lightning-timer in both cases (TES and Witcher) is pure hype. Which is the opposite end of lowball and just as undesirable. The only reason I mentioned it is because the kind of scans you request would on both sides only arrive from hype-battles.
4. Correct, since its not important to the actual point
5. Which is why I don't want to bring it up. Both sides of an argument can lowball. Both can hype. But neither of those will end up with anywhere near of an interesting discussion or one based on reality.
6. No worries whatsoever, I barely know how to make gifs (not even that consistently), even just sending a vid without timestamp and just telling me the time would be perfectly fine for me lol
7. Rarely get worked up, just tend to get somewhat sarcastic when I debate, not the best of traits (why I tend to write apologies in advance when i do CaVs lol). And I don't mind different opinions, infact like I said at the start I barely even know Witcher so I have no strong opinion on the matchup itself. If you said something like "Witcher has X feat that is better and Eredin scales to that so they should win" then I would be fully willing to accept that. Even things like freezing or teleportation is completely fair.
What is an issue however is when instead of saying "Yes Nord can react to vampire speedsters, but due to X the WH could too", you said "yeah but that is null since years before the Nord got hit by an arrow that one time so is slow". Which is just like instead of Advent saying "Here's why the trailer trio is impressive and why that makes them better than WH!" he said "Geralt is sub pitchfork lol". These are not arguments about who's better than who, its about how bad one can make the other side sound.
Well, it shouldn't really matter for someone capable of beating a "casual arrow-timer" to deal with a bunch of blatant non-arrow-timers, right? If all it takes to pin him to the ground is two of those working in tandem, that's still not painting a pretty picture. [1]
No, it's not. They have no feats of reacting to arrows, on the contrary, they are getting tagged and one-shotted by them. It's funny how you accuse me of neglecting context and then come up with something like this. "Likely" doesn't cut it, mate.
True. But there's nothing to suggest this applies to the werewolves. Maybe they are simply too slow to react to dodge them. Maybe it's just that simple. [2]
Fine.
1. I feel the need to say that being a casual arrow-timer... isn't that fast. Arrows aren't bullets. Sure they're fast but they're still perfectly reactable to humans. If you shot an arrow at me I would die since I have terrible reflexes, but there are people who can indeed dodge or even catch arrows IRL. Doesn't mean that those people can kill two of me at once if both of me try to punch them.
2. I... did mention context. Thats exactly what I did. I never said they were not tagged by arrows. Wolves are fast enough to react to arrows, but they wouldn't since they wouldn't think to do so. I'm not saying they weren't tagged by arrows (for some reason got heavy deja vu writing this), I'm saying that them being hit by arrows is not evidence that they couldn't
Tell me with a straight face that their victory was in any way implied. The common trope argument doesn't cut it here.
Three vampires in their first encounter and in an ambush. And them having "their hands full" is fancy wording for each taking a single hit, then taking a moment to adjust and killing them easily without taking another. Which again brings me back to: "Geralt is not pitch fork level! There's context! Oh but lets neglect context to make TES sound weak!" And the werewolves needed five to pin Lyris down temporarily, doing zero damage in the context and ending with her throwing off all of them at once.
It does once we stop lowball.
Not to mention that: The Nord, the Altmer, the Breton, are all just characters meant to represent the Vestige. As for the Vampire in the trailer; Its the Ashen Lord; Rada al-Saran; AKA a boss that the Vestige does beat.
What ambush? After fodder#1 got killed, they went into a defensive formation before the actual attack begin, it's not like the vampires just started blitzing out of nowhere. If anything, they've got a free warning that their enemy is fast. [1]
And a single hit was enough to bring either to their knees. [2] And yet here you are claiming that the Nord and Lyris (who was blatantly more impressive of the two, btw.) were implied to win against an army of those things, aided by an army of other creatures which have proven to be a nuisance on their own in far lesser numbers, and led by Rada al-Saran.
I'm sorry to say that, but this is just painful to read. [3]
1. There's 30 seconds between when they first start appearing and when Lyris was hit. 30 seconds where the nord and Lyris are occupied trying to protect their fellow soldiers.
2. They got knocked over by someone hitting them with super-speed, and after that they simply stood up again and killed them. Bringing someone to their knees is not really important when them being on their knees does nothing for you. They didn't even seem hurt by it except for that one moment of impact.
3. 1. How else do you think they escaped the room? 2. We know that its true since the Nord did infact lorewise kill Rada al-Saran.
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