Eragon runs a WHF Gauntlet

Eragon Shadeslayer

The Gauntlet

Styrkaar of the Sortsvinaer

Stefan von Kessel

Calard of Garamont

Eltharion the Grim

Azhag the Slaughterer

Mannfred von Carstein

Egrimm van Horstmann

Rules

• In character
• No prep
• No knowledge
• Standard gear (Armor, Brisingr, Aren, Belt of Beloth and Glaedr's Eldunarí for Eragon)
• To the death
• Book 4 Eragon
• Pre ET WHF characters
• Location: Beor Mountains

Round 1: No mounts

Round 2: Mounts included (Abyssal Terror for Mannfred)

For those who dont know Eragon:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/thevivas/blog/eragon-bromsson-respect-thread-completed-41515/103365/

@firefly489:

Nice to see some Eragon featured!

Frankly... Book 4 Eragon with standard Gear stomps, or gets stomped. It depends on how we decide to guess how he handles the spells he will have checked at him, since it will be hard for Eragon to know the names of the WH spells to nullify or neglect them. And vice versa, since he's got a buttload of autospells on him by book 4 and it wouldnt be fair to give advantages in the scenario to wh magic but not his own.

Dude got Eldunaris for days in book 4 per his regular gear, and one of those gems that are his backup is also hosting half a lifetimes worth of his fathers Energy.

His life drain is also instant and is shown to work on _anything_ which hosts energy in any form. So he can very easily siphon the energy of anyone here. The books really goes to length to explain how he can manipulate or drain whatever type of life/energy he can sense which was a lot.

@firefly489:

Nice to see some Eragon featured!

Frankly... Book 4 Eragon with standard Gear stomps, or gets stomped. It depends on how we decide to guess how he handles the spells he will have checked at him, since it will be hard for Eragon to know the names of the WH spells to nullify or neglect them. And vice versa, since he's got a buttload of autospells on him by book 4 and it wouldnt be fair to give advantages in the scenario to wh magic but not his own.

Dude got Eldunaris for days in book 4 per his regular gear, and one of those gems that are his backup is also hosting half a lifetimes worth of his fathers Energy.

His life drain is also instant and is shown to work on _anything_ which hosts energy in any form. So he can very easily siphon the energy of anyone here. The books really goes to length to explain how he can manipulate or drain whatever type of life/energy he can sense which was a lot. I think he clears, easily and convincingly, in more scenarios than not. He's a physical beast with good, combat-oriented hax, and even with his magic on the defensive he's able to regenerate any unlikely wound almost no matter the severity. The verse is crazy on paper.

@cergic: Do you think he can life drain Calard? His grail aura should negate these kind of effects and it's why i would argue calard out of everyone here can beat eragon.

@exmaster3000:

Honestly, great question. The EraVerse version of the undead can be affected by Eragon (and they are moreso numbed than dead since unlofe isn't really a thing in "Conventional" ways), but my point is that the source of magic/it's effect can be circumvened. It's very much possible that Eragon couldn't handle his magic source to the GK-ness or prevent it, but i don't see why he shouldnt be able to affect him in some direct ways. Perhaps not by drainage (big maybe) but hold him in statis, slow him, light a pebble to the heat of a forge on fire and put it in his nostril or coat him in something? Probably/maybe. GK's are magic resistant, yet not immune. And EraVerse magic of a high enough magnitude and order affect their strongest and most magical entities. Murtagh was able to hold Saphira in statis "like that" after all, and she's more of a magical entity with mystical properties around em than a GK.

Eragon can also Summon or manipulate his immediate surroundings and he is creative. He's fully able to alter the shape of the ground to make a massive hole and then fill it with boiling water, for example.

Again, good question though

@firefly489:God that was a long RT to go through lol. Think its safe to say that he godstomps Styrkaar and Stefan. He would be a tough fight in melee alone, but with magic the result is obvious. '

Calard is a tougher one. Calard is no mage himself, but he's a grail knight, which gives him a lot of auto-resistance against magic, making Eragon focusing on doing so more a determinent than an advantage. If Eragon is powerful enough to breach that resistance, he could win. However if not, which really is hard to tell, Eragon is going to get a tough encounter. Even amongst grail knights Calard is absolutely ridicolous. Casually blitzing groups of ancient vampire lords and killing one of the most infamous and powerful vampires in history in a blitz, as well as beating the son of Egil Styrbjorn, who's superior to the latter, who in turn had killed Reolus, one of the most famous grail knights of Bretonnia. In other words he will have to match an absolute chad in melee. Frankly I think this round is too difficult to answer for someone with limited knowledge of Eragon, though from what I saw in his RT I think Calard should be a better fighter (though Eragon certainly would make him work for it), and magic resistance would be a big advantage since Eragon's expending strength while Calard is just protected automatically and tirelessly by blessings. In the second round it might be more difficult though, since Calard will have to deal with a dragon and a skilled enemy. Then again if anyone is adept at killing dragons, and more motivated to accomplish the impossible in a fight against one, then its a grail knight.

Feel like arguments could be made either way for Eltharion vs Eragon. Both monumentally skilled and powerful, and rather haxy. However in the second round I would favour Eragon due to mount advantage

Azhag is a very tough one to fight. Azhag is a strong fighter on his own, but the crown of sorcery makes him an exceptionally powerful and masterful sorcerer. While in this diminished shape I'm not sure the crown would be able to overpower Eragon, but in terms of mastery and control Nagash should still be far superior to Eragon from what I've seen. While Skullmuncha is just a wyvern vs a dragon that Eragon has, skullmuncha is a ridicolously strong one, with scales that can outright break magical weapons upon impact, and armour covering its only weakspot. Its also a particularily large wyvern. Could see the crown being too much for Eragon, unless Azhag and the crown start arguing between one another

Mannfred is an inferior mage than Nagash (obviously) and Eltharion (when he's not suffering from a writer who forgot he's a mage at all). However Mannfred does have a lot of cunning and breadth in magical abilities, as well as vampiric physicals, which might still give him a win.

Egrimm is a busted sorcerer who's the greatest light mage alive and the greatest mortal chaos sorcerer alive (bar maybe Vilitch). His spells range from combat oriented like many of Eragon's own are, but he also has lots of haxy abilities such as sending and trapping people into different dimensions. I won't pretend as if I know anything about Eragon's dragon, however she will have to be busted to give him an advantage in this scenario, as Egrimm's dragon is a mage greater than he is; it nearly killed him, and even Teclis could not kill it, rather forced to trap it. From what I've seen I don't think that Eragon could beat him anything but in melee (in which Egrimm is less impressive, though still a chaos lord).

The only issue I have with this reasoning is that its a common ability in WHF as well, and WHF wards block it. Calard should be especially protected from magic like that, Eltharion has wards and just the fact that he can resist magic and death per being a chad (literally), entering a life drain contest with Nagash seems ill-advised, Mannfred also but less so, and Egrimm should be able to replicate and block it.

Beat me to the punch with Cergic, because wards are common and Death magic isn't exactly unknown especially to Manny boi

@cheth:

If Eragon didn't have his gear with him the way the rules are shaped, i would agree completely.

What makes him so godlike in this battle is his complete and overly OP power supplies of the Eldunaris and his gems.

Energy transfer in EraVerse is super efficient and very mundane. It's instant recovery, almost like a potion in a game with instant effect. So if he feels tired, he drains energy and nullifies his tiredness. Lets use Joules as a unit.

If Eragon on a rest day throws in 12000 Joules in one of his gems, he can use those on a fighting day via that transfer in a jiffy. And he has several of those gems in his sword and on his body with energy from allies and his Dragon.

What makes it stupid OP here is the fact that book 4 has him running around and safeguard and often use a big bunch of Eldunaris (aka Dragon hearts) and they work the same way. Only, fully grown and ancient dragons that became Eldunaris have energy enough to level towns and shake down castles. Eragon in book 4 have _lots_ of them on him. So his standard Gear by book 4 includes access to energy that would allow him to convincingly brute force the magical protections on the WH guys. And magic in Eragon stacks, so to speak. It's not really a finite passage to channel magic via. He can always dump in more power to greater effect, at the expense of a severe energy expense. I wouldnt be sure he could force through on his own, but with those bad boys, i don't see anything standing in his way in terms of ward blocks. The rules should include no Eldunaris, leaving him with only his gems. Still OP, but they would still be like ... A few hours of active fighting and spellcasting worth of energy, not weeks with Hills uplifted :p

@mordhauextreme1:

Check my reply to cheth!

@cergic: I cant Cergic, my eyes are lazy, I only address posts directed at me only heuehehuehuehuehue jk ill check it soon Xd

@mordhauextreme1:

Bastard :p

I'll rummage through my bookstands to see if i can't find book 2 and 3 where the schtick with Energy and drains and stuff is delved into. I don't trust some of the RTs and scalings used since we have seen some of the horrid scalings and hyperboles used for other mediums at times. There are limits, but those are too vague for me to recall

@exmaster3000: @mordhauextreme1: @cheth: @cergic:

Changed OP, Eragon will only have Glaedr's Eldunarí (and the rest of his stuff)

Also an RT for Saphira (Eragon's dragon)

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/bswcut/respect_saphira_inheritance_cycle/

@cergic: So kind of like warhammer characters when they're high on warpstone xD. Yeah then I would agree that Eragon likely wins, as over a 100 sources of magic each of which can destroy a keep would be too much for any of these warhammer characters to deal with (except maybe Eltharion who has ridicolous survivability. He took a blast from one of the most powerful orc shamans ever after he had drained multiple waystones to amp himself heavily and it just momentarily stunned him before he kept fighting. This was before Eltharion had his talisman which is what actually allows him to use magic).

But yeah he should clear both rounds, except maybe Calard depending on how they'd interact. Would require stronger characters than this to deal with that (or ones with similar amps)

Though if this is the case I'd go back to my previous opinions

Also judging by that RT alone I'd hold Egrimm's dragon massively above her, Skullmuncha comparable, Stormwing capable of giving a good fight, and the rest of the mounts notably below her.

@cheth:

The change of rules a bit forces Eragon to become creative. They spend a good 30-40 pages in the books to go to length and great detail in terms of how creative a great wizard can and should be which is a lot. They're literal, too.

I will ramble a little below to describe his more realistic yet creative options, true to his character, he could apply. Just to provide nuance.

A great example on how they explicitly have Eragon use his powers regarding energy (which is super hax according to the in-verse) from other sources that is relevant here is when he uses life force from nature and life, creatures and his teacher around him to levitate and chuck water orbs until it dies (why they do this is for several reasons ofc but to show how task x can rely on source y without caster z being in trouble).

Magic in EraVerse is conditional and almost a binding contract between the faster and the wanted effect.

So if Eragon says or thinks "lift the mountain" while someone else says "hold it down" he either does it or dies. Nothing in between, because a simple/dumbed down spell or phrasing wont cease itself and cant be stopped easily if there are two opposing Wizards thats locked horns (a similar example is provided in the books).

He dies if he doesn't have energy to pick it up and the spell isn't broken off, and magic in that verse is explained to be almost as Taxing/demanding (not really, but it's not that far away) when it comes to the energy required to do a task as if you would do it physically, meaning it drains energy absurdly fast to cast or maintain such a spell and it's impossible to do as a single humanoid.

So, the reason i ramble about that shit is simple - Eragon could very easily detect/sense life from his opponents ("life" including anything that's not merely the elemental energies, and it would include the undead since they have energy), and use their energy (x) to cast an impossible spell like lift that huge boulder the size of a ship 15 meters above the ground (y) without risking himself or his own energy (y), while also actively fight per usual.

He's doing so a couple of times in active combat on a smaller scale and he really never fights anyone on his level at the stage of book 4 where he is in this thread until he runs into the world boss, so he never had a chance in the books to do it enough times for it to become his go-to move, but they do put emphasis on how endlessly creative one can get and they dedicate a lot of pages to Eragon doing creative stuff that kills.

He's able to say silly stuff (and forces through Wizards defenses while doing so) like "cause his artery to boil" or "twist his spine two entire turns" in the books to insta-kill, while at a long range away fighting simultaneously like a proficient multitasker).

Finally, to put emphasis on his options one last time, he has one very old, one of the oldest and most powerful dragons to be in fighting duty, to provide him with his Eldunari. So he's got energy worth of a massive large male Dragon, which is needless to say, a very large energy reservoir to have backing him up besides his OP gems. If you think that he perhaps could do something, odds are he can. Thats how the verse works.

He's for all intents and purposes worth a high-end rider Elfs energy plus a dragon even in round one.

Well while I agree that he has lots of creative uses of magic, and that Eragon is really powerful, the issue I have with this is that all of this needs to be able to have effect against WHF mages. And while I won't go into a NLF by saying warhammer caster shields can block anything whatsoever, unlike casters from Eragon's world their wards are all-round defences: they don't have to state what the ward has to defend them from (though doing so often increases their potency), they simply protect them. And things like energy/life drain are like the most basic lore of death spell; its an exceptionally basic spell for the standards of Mannfred, Egrimm and Azhag, and its something Calard and Eltharion would have faced countless times both (especially Calard who soloed a force of vampire lords and one of the vampire top-leaguers). Then there's the matter of dispelling; warhammer mages can counter abilities from affecting them by dispelling them, or even prevent them from ever being cast in the first place (The Crown of Sorcery is particularily adept at this). The bigger issue I see is this; if life drain is something nearly unblockable in the Eragon verse, whats to prevent Mannfred, Egrimm and Azhag from doing it to him.

With the dragon he certainly has a boost, but the issue I see is that lots of the warhammer casters do as well. Eltharion has his own anti-magic willpower survivability + a talisman which makes him a high-tier caster who can fend off Malekith's spells, and has magical armour. Azhag has his crown of sorcery and a Tzeentch talisman. Mannfred has so many magical artifact you'd need a whole list. Same with Egrimm really.

As for the matchup I still don't think wards and dispells makes the Warhammer mages immortal, nor that their artifacts necessarily mean they're equal to Eragon with his dragon power. I would reiterate that Eragon vs Calard depends on how the former's magic vs the latter's blessings would go. Would say Eragon is more powerful than Eltharion in theory, but Eltharion's whole ordeal is matching mages more powerful than him, which makes it a tough match (in round 2 i would favour Eragon due to having another dragon). Azhag should be as powerful as Eragon, or at least roughly so, so it comes down to dueling or if Eragon manages to cause dispute between the crown and azhag (in round 2 I'd still hold them comparable). Mannfred I'd favour physically, consider just as masterful/experienced or moreso than Eragon in magic, however I'd favour Eragon in power (in round 2 Eragon wins beyond doubt). Against Egrimm Eragon still is a better fighter, they should be comparable in power, but I'd favour Egrimm in mastery and give him the win (round 2 Egrimm doubtlessly wins)

Yes. This is where i'm actually unable to put my finger on the fights myself since the buttload of overpowered energy boosts were removed. Me thinking out loud, there is no way for Eragon to bruteforce effects to take hold anymore (at least not convincingly) and i'm genuinely struggling to compare the verses in this regard "on an average". I don't think a Grail Knights natural resistance is going to prevent Eragon from casting, though. Reduce the effect or make Eragon work harder for it? Yes.

So my take on the gauntlet is easy win 1-2, majority win 3-4 and genuinely no clue 5-7. Because there's no way Eragon's going to have any autoshields or passive spells that prevents legit lore of death or shadow spells to roll unto him. He COULD possibly get saved by quick reflexes and regen .... but just as often he could be disintegrated instantly.

My boy eragon

@cheth:

Well while I agree that he has lots of creative uses of magic, and that Eragon is really powerful, the issue I have with this is that all of this needs to be able to have effect against WHF mages. And while I won't go into a NLF by saying warhammer caster shields can block anything whatsoever, unlike casters from Eragon's world their wards are all-round defences: they don't have to state what the ward has to defend them from (though doing so often increases their potency), they simply protect them.

I have no idea how wards work in the WH verse or how they're applied/how powerful they are, but is it just anything related to magic will get blocked? Like if Eragon throws a fireball or uses a fire arrow/explosive arrow against them, I'm assuming that would get blocked by the shields/wards, but what if his magic is intended to affect them directly? Like this instance here where he breaks the calves of twenty Urgals?

Eragon raised his palm, shouting, "Jierda theirra kalfis!" Sharp cracks resounded off the cliff. Twenty of the charging Urgals fell into Kostha-merna, howling and clutching their legs where shards of bone protruded.

Source: Eragon

Or how would a spell like this interact with the wards/shields in WH? Eragon was fighting against people who had wards set up against his magic, so he used a spell to "get around" it and affect them:

He quickly readied a spell Murtagh had once used on him: "Thrysta vindr!" It was a roundabout way of striking at the men, as he was not actually hitting them but rather pushing the air against them. In any case, it worked.

A howl of wind filled the chamber, clawing at Eragon's hair and cloak and sending the men closest to him flying back into their compatriots, clearing a space of ten feet in front of him.

Source: Inheritance

-

Then there's the matter of dispelling; warhammer mages can counter abilities from affecting them by dispelling them, or even prevent them from ever being cast in the first place (The Crown of Sorcery is particularily adept at this).

I'm not sure how "preventing them from ever being cast in the first place" would affect a magic system like the Ancient Langauge. The other user already gave a breakdown of how it works, but it's sort of like a contract. What you say in that language is almost binding, and although the user's intent is a very important aspect of how the spell operates, I don't think there's ever been a time when something was said, a spell was prepared/wanting to be used, and nothing happened.

The bigger issue I see is this; if life drain is something nearly unblockable in the Eragon verse, whats to prevent Mannfred, Egrimm and Azhag from doing it to him.

I'm not sure if its something that's nearly unblockable, but I also haven't gone through and read the books in years. Unless it was just something so easy to set up a ward for that Murtagh or any of the magic using adversaries never bothered or tried to use it, and vice versa for Eragon (although he usually dislikes using it for moral reasons).

Weirdly enough, though, I don't think I saw Telepathy being brought up in this thread yet. Do these guys have any counter/defense to it? It's a pretty big thing for Eragon and magic users in the verse in general.

In general it prevents magic from taking effect on anything past it. Direct magic is also very common in WHF so it applies to both indirect and direct attacks. As for things like sending a blast of wind to indirectly strike them, wind blasts is also a common spell. These wards can outright block falling meteors if the caster is strong enough. Again they're not invulnerable (and I def agree 100+ eldunari would just oneshot any ward from the mages here), but bypassing them or haxing your way past them, especially in extremely masterful and skilled casters like these are, is rather unlikely.

Well thats another issue of different magical systems against each other. The Eragon side can argue "But its never been done here", and the WHF side can argue "But its an ability they simply didn't have but WHF casters do". Kind of goes back to how Cergic talked about the differences in barriers and wards. Generally I'd say that in matchups all abilities should apply (kind of like the force in SW is assumed to work on enemies despite per the sw force limitations it actually wouldn't on non-sw characters), and its up to the characters to block them. Could be something akin to; Eragon starts the contract, but the WHF mages kind of dissolves it by dispelling it.

Fair, again i have no knowledge of the verse whatsoever bar the RTs and these talks, just based myself off what cergic said in this instance. That seems to be a debate between the two of you lol

Every single one of the Warhammer mages are telepaths, any warhammer mage in general is. Necromancers for example use telepathy to fully control all their undead minions (even low-tiers can raise armies) like ragdolls. But even purely flame-casters are telepaths, and its quite common for wizarding duels to just resolve to pure mind-battles. So cergic probably just didn't think it'd be a factor for Eragon

@firefly489: I have no knowledge whatsoever on the WHF verse.