EoS Battler Ushiromiya and Arcueid Brunestud (Umineko and Tsukihime) Vs. Li Qiye and Meng Hao (ED and ISSTH)

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zgtfreak

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etriel

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#3  Edited By etriel  Online

I don't even know if Li and Meng are Tier A or Tier B anymore. They are either of those.

I assumed Li was a Tier A for wielding the Supreme Tao, but apparently we are going down the same route as Masadaverse.

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ThisIsAUsername

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#4  Edited By ThisIsAUsername

@etriel said:

I don't even know if Li and Meng are Tier A or Tier B anymore. They are either of those.

I assumed Li was a Tier A for wielding the Supreme Tao, but apparently we are going down the same route as Masadaverse.

What Li Qiye wields is his own dao, something unrestricted by the Supreme Dao, it's stated to be infinitely near the Supreme Dao's power when it contains the idea of all Daos. Li Qiye's Dao become the foundation for the new multiverse, called the Eight Desolates. Every concept and law is derived from his own Dao. It also shares similarities with the Supreme/Heavenly Dao, with its Seven Forms related to the concept of how Dao begets One, and One begets Two, and Two begets Three, and Three begets all things.

“May there be light in the first night with the start of primordial chaos.”

“May there be dao on the second night, splitting the heaven and earth apart.”

“May there be spirits on the third night for divine ascension to oppose the immortals!”

“May there be love on the fourth night, giving birth to all creations!”

“May there be desires on the fifth night, down with the World Dao!”

"May there be destruction on the sixth night, let the devils roam free for an eternity!"

The Seventh Form is yet to be revealed.

Also, Meng Hao should be Tier B only.

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zgtfreak

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@etriel: So you are for team 1? Or are you not sure?

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ThisIsAUsername

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@zgtfreak: I didn't get a notification for this post and some other posts in the past days or so. Is the notification system buggy for you too?

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johnsmjs36

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@etriel: I thought I should make it clear to you. Treat Supreme Dao as the suppose Source/Demiurgic/Presence. It is a boundless, infinite and omnipotent. It created everything. Cultivators wield this power but in a limited form. The more better they comprehend the Dao the more powerful become. This is because they are getting closer to understanding the nature of the Supreme Energy. The better they understood the omnipotent power the less limit they have. True Immortals are not powerful like DBZ but because they are closest to the Supreme Dao.

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johnsmjs36

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„Also should start.” Finally, Li Qiye has also taken back mind, again stepped the road of cultivate, started to practice. Now Li Qiye cultivation does not have, all from the beginning start, this time he, is ordinary to cannot the ordinary mortal. Moreover, in the past has practiced all Cultivation Technique, all Grand Dao, after Li Qiye already already the brain of its throwing, has forgotten them. This is not the time passes too for a long time, Li Qiye all Cultivation Technique and practice forgot that but was he chooses had forgotten all these that all from the beginning started. This probably work is the same, after it has formed, that fears again the ghost axe finger of God, but it also has the limit, if a white paper, before taking up the pen, it has been full of the infinite possibility. This is Li Qiye's epoch, is created epoch that by him personally, therefore, from the beginning starts, he will lay the brand-new foundation, founds the unprecedented new altitude! This is why Li Qiye, mysterious completely gets rid of beforehand all Cultivation Technique and cultivation, completely forgot that regarding him, from the beginning starts, the brand-new beginning, can arrive in the brand-new altitude! Li Qiye cultivate, does not select, regarding him, anything has not been worth selecting, no matter he by what kind of opening, finally is Myriad Dao with turning over to!

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ThisIsAUsername

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„Also should start.” Finally, Li Qiye has also taken back mind, again stepped the road of cultivate, started to practice. Now Li Qiye cultivation does not have, all from the beginning start, this time he, is ordinary to cannot the ordinary mortal. Moreover, in the past has practiced all Cultivation Technique, all Grand Dao, after Li Qiye already already the brain of its throwing, has forgotten them. This is not the time passes too for a long time, Li Qiye all Cultivation Technique and practice forgot that but was he chooses had forgotten all these that all from the beginning started. This probably work is the same, after it has formed, that fears again the ghost axe finger of God, but it also has the limit, if a white paper, before taking up the pen, it has been full of the infinite possibility. This is Li Qiye's epoch, is created epoch that by him personally, therefore, from the beginning starts, he will lay the brand-new foundation, founds the unprecedented new altitude! This is why Li Qiye, mysterious completely gets rid of beforehand all Cultivation Technique and cultivation, completely forgot that regarding him, from the beginning starts, the brand-new beginning, can arrive in the brand-new altitude! Li Qiye cultivate, does not select, regarding him, anything has not been worth selecting, no matter he by what kind of opening, finally is Myriad Dao with turning over to!

This is MTL, but since I read MTL, basically what he did is after he destroyed the verse, his Dao become the foundation for all lower daos and concepts. It's like another Supreme Dao, just quite a bit weaker.

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johnsmjs36

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After much thought, Team 2 takes this quite easily. Team 1 at most can erase/kill Li Qiye for second. This is me being generous. Unless, Endless Nine can completely destroy his 13 Fate Palaces Li Qiye would not die. If he is not dead any injury he suffers would be returned several fold. Death Scripture alone solos. Li Qiye is too versatile and hard to kill for Team 1. His option ranges from suppressing to killing his opponents( There are worse things in between them). Meng Hao can create his own law to affect them. His Karmic hex and Sealing Dao would be effective. Arcueid is the weaklink here. From what I have learned from @zgtfreak her "your strength +1" makes her such a formidable opponent but this actually hinders her because:

1. Li Qiye and Meng Hao have reached this level not just from power but comphrending the laws of Dao. Their power is their comprehension and being stronger than them means nothing if the comprehension of laws is not equal to them.

2. These guys have been stomping beings stronger than them for a while. This is a trademark of all Xianxia MC. Li Qiye has stonped guys sho were several degrees stronger than him. Like I breathe and you die level of stronger.

And Battler may last a moment or two but he would eventually get overwhelmed with numbers and hax. I ma not sure if Meng Hao has any answer to Endless Nine I would have to ask @Senior_Nepuko.

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zgtfreak

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#11  Edited By zgtfreak

@johnsmjs36: Arcueid is beyond the reach of the archetypal/platonic concept of death. The team needs to go beyond that to even think of damaging her. She's harder to kill than Battler even. Can team 2 damage her?

Meng Hao can create his own law to affect them.

Battler creates his own laws with the Golden Truth. Endless Nine and Golden Truth are beyond linear power.

Not arguing for a victor. Just pointing stuff out.

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johnsmjs36

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@zgtfreak: Actually, yes. Meng Hao can actually create Laws to deal with her. Death, Time, etc. He can create such laws. Death Scripture also possesses Death Of The Endless type ability. And he can create his own law to affect her. You do know that Eight Desolate World is founded on his Law to govern the Grand Dao right. In this level of fight being beyond concept is meaningless. Didn't Gilgamesh deal with Tiamat in the same way. Also, every damage dealt to Li Qiye would be returned several fold. Dao Of Destruction has erased comcepts and laws governing the Dao. Can Arcueid survive that? And Karmic Hex will torture her for eternity. Can she survive Void Gate when supressed by Countless layers of Dao Laws? If Li Qiyes Nine times aside from huge resistance and power boost Li Qiye would be able to completely strip away all powers. Can she deal with it? That's why I said the options he has aside from supression and death is way worse.

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etriel

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#14  Edited By etriel  Online

That's crazy, Li is basically 0/1 away from being 0/0 at that point. If this is true, that is definitely Tier A.

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Li Qiye can also create an exact copy of his opponent. His Death Scripture and Thought Scripture are crazily broken. He's almost on par with the Supreme Dao in his novel with his Seven Nights Dao. I'm curious about the Seventh Form of his Dao, it has not been shown yet. But when it does, it's probably gonna be crazy, crazily broken. More than everything he has ever done.

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@johnsmjs36: The Void Gate is probably one of the strongest Heavenly Treasures, although we haven't seen a few others yet. It's basically like its own verse, it has its own rules that are enforced by the owner of the Void Gate. The Longevity Treasure is also crazily broken, it literally makes its owner immortal as long as he has it.

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zgtfreak

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#17  Edited By zgtfreak

@johnsmjs36: Death Scripture also possesses Death Of The Endless type ability.

MEoDP is basically Death of Endless tier since it is archetypal death; yet she is immune to it. And back when she had a concept of death, she could abandon and reinvent her body after getting hit with MEoDP several times. He'll need more than that.

Didn't Gilgamesh deal with Tiamat in the same way.

I haven't read much of GO because it's trash; so I don't know much about the context of that. However, Tiamat is fodder to even base Arcueid.

Also, every damage dealt to Li Qiye would be returned several fold.

I don't really know if Arcueid is capable of damaging herself beyond her regeneration powers. Also, Battler can apply Endless Nine to teammates, as his is superior to Ange's, who applied it to her entire family.

Dao Of Destruction has erased comcepts and laws governing the Dao. Can Arcueid survive that?

I don't know anything about Dao's, so no idea. These Chinese terms are to mind numbing to bother understanding. I'm just bringing up some things while leting the rest of you debate on who wins.

And Karmic Hex will torture her for eternity.

This isn't really a big thing? She's chained herself to her throne and was in constant torture due to not feeding on blood for centuries. Torture isn't going to really do anything. Battler has also been tortured and ripped to pieces many times. He just gets used to it.

Can she survive Void Gate when supressed by Countless layers of Dao Laws?

No idea what that is. I haven't read this entire thread yet.

If Li Qiyes Nine times aside from huge resistance and power boost Li Qiye would be able to completely strip away all powers. Can she deal with it?

Depends. Her very existence is beyond/immune the archetypal/platonic concept of death. Would that count as a power? I mean it's not an ability; it's her literal existence. Also, can Battler stop their power stripping by refusing to acknowledge it with Endless Nine? After all, Endless Nine is a mental state where you can refuse and deny anything, regardless of cosmology. When combined with the Golden Truth, whatever reality you believe in is the real reality. All interference and concepts are powerless when you deny and overrule it with your own.

This looks interesting though. I'll read the rest of this thread soon.

Also, isn't Li above Meng? I think I heard people say that somewhere.

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etriel

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#18  Edited By etriel  Online

Tbh. I would rather get rid of the Cosmology Tier axis of my tiering system and just stick to metaphysics. It's getting retarded.

Cosmology tiering seems to be something that Weebs and Comic Nerds came up with. Which came with these monstrosities of Cosmology/Megaverse and Outerverse. You truly do not know whose infinities is bigger than the other.

For example, both Dark Tower, DC, Demon King and Umineko have infinite hierarchy below their 3-D Universes/BOTTOMLESS that is nothing like Infinite-D at all.

, so how does that work? Is 3-D infinite-D? Is dimensions all more directions or is it about being more real? But then you find out (in the case of DC) that those lower hierarchies are also Meta and 3-D that are also human, but just fictional/less real conceptually.

Lucifer should beat Beyonder because of his DIVINE POWER that comes from God and Absolute Manipulation against Tier Bs/Linears. I don't care otherwise about this Universals bigger infinities explosions bullshit. Never did.

But I have to keep it so I can transition the views of many people I can still influence.

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johnsmjs36

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#19  Edited By johnsmjs36

@zgtfreak: The power stripping is done by Death Scripture which is formed from the Grand Dao. To deny it means to deny the Grand Dao. It will be like denying the Creator. Also, didn't Arcueid lose 80 percent of her powers after Mystic Eyes cut her to pieces?

Edit: The power stripping is done by Primal Dao. He sucks life and refines in his Life Cauldron robbing them of their life and power.

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johnsmjs36

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@etriel: I think your Tiering can be refined because there seems to be massive gaps in their tier alone

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@etriel said:

Tbh. I would rather get rid of the Cosmology Tier axis of my tiering system and just stick to metaphysics. It's getting retarded.

Cosmology tiering seems to be something that Weebs and Comic Nerds came up with. Which came with these monstrosities of Cosmology/Megaverse and Outerverse. You truly do not know whose infinities is bigger than the other.

For example, both Dark Tower, DC, Demon King and Umineko have infinite hierarchy below their 3-D Universes/BOTTOMLESS that is nothing like Infinite-D at all.

, so how does that work? Is 3-D infinite-D? Is dimensions all more directions or is it about being more real? But then you find out (in the case of DC) that those lower hierarchies are also Meta and 3-D that are also human, but just fictional/less real conceptually.

Lucifer should beat Beyonder because of his DIVINE POWER that comes from God and Absolute Manipulation against Tier Bs/Linears. I don't care otherwise about this Universals bigger infinities explosions bullshit. Never did.

But I have to keep it so I can transition the views of many people I can still influence.

Tbh, there's some verses which has potential to be powerful, but are being low balled because their cosmology is not impressive.

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johnsmjs36

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"With a hum, his cauldron of life rushed forward and spewed out an endless amount of fire with great life force.

Inside the endless fire of life, the Heavenly Dao’s Primal Chapter was ringing continuously and seemed to be turning into a boundless ocean. Countless runes of the grand dao were floating inside this ocean-like fish. There were also primordial lights flashing inside as if this place was the beginning of myriad dao in this world. It was continuously gestating new heavenly dao."

"Nevertheless, the primal chapter still blocked it. The attack from the Imperial Massacre seemed to be endlessly slowing down in this sea full of brilliance. Suddenly, everyone saw the attack explode into countless little bits and pieces. The power of these little parts were all sucked in.

In this process, the primal chapter analyzed the Imperial Massacre’s composition and transformation before sucking in everything like a vortex. All the offensive power and grand dao power of the imperial weapon was instantly funneled into the runes of the primal chapter.

In a short period of time, not only did the primal chapter stop the Imperial Massacre, it also turned the attack’s power into its own.

“Impossible…” Jikong Wudi blurted out and was stunned right away. Li Qiye was not annihilated like he imagined! He couldn’t believe his own eyes. It was a sure-kill blow, but this was the result instead.

It could even be said that no one understood this event. No one could imagine an Imperial Massacre being taken down like this.

Of course, they didn’t know that the primal chapter had a matchless origin. Some people even called it the beginning of all grand dao in this world, or at least a great part of it.

“My turn.” Li Qiye laughed out loud. With a buzz, the fire of life poured down like a waterfall. Strands of universal laws from the primal chapter instantly pierced the vortex and sucked away the forces of time before turning them into its own.

With that, he flipped his palm, causing the stars to mimic his movements.

“Boom!” Myriad realms trembled. This palm attack didn’t only have the power of the Imperial Massacre from earlier, but also the power of time from the formation.

The formation quaked as if it was about to break into pieces in the face of these two powers."

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zgtfreak

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@johnsmjs36: The power stripping is done by Death Scripture which is formed from the Grand Dao. To deny it means to deny the Grand Dao. It will be like denying the Creator.

So the Grand Dao is omnipotent?

The power stripping is done by Primal Dao. He sucks life and refines in his Life Cauldron robbing them of their life and power.

So it's the Primal Dao? What's that? Getting confused, so I'll ask this... Can it strip the life of the ultimate expression of life that is either the archetypal concept of life, or life so boundless that it is beyond archetypal concepts? They don't make it clear, but Archetype-Earth is either the archetypal/platonic concept of life, or just boundless life beyond the archetype of death. Can he steal that level of life?

As for Battler, he has no concept of death, but in a completely different way. You can't kill him by stealing away his life. Battler can regenerate from nothingness as long as he retains his consciousness. You have to erase his mind to keep him down (which is even harder due to Endless Nine).

Also, didn't Arcueid lose 80 percent of her powers after Mystic Eyes cut her to pieces?

She lost 20%, as she was only at 30% due to restricting her bloodlust with the other 70%, and thus went down to 10%. However, this was restricted base Arcueid. Archetype-Earth has limitless mana to keep doing it.

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johnsmjs36

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All things familiar to the world were missing, such as time and space and all the creatures… However, everything was also here, including the heavenly grand dao and its breath along with the wondrous laws…

At this moment, Li Qiye was emitting a bright light with his thirteen palaces floating above his head in full force. They spun like thirteen stars and derived a supreme grand world. Inside this world was the inhabitants of the universe, billions and billions of them basking in the brilliance of the sun and moon…

After some time, the palaces disappeared along with Li Qiye. The only thing left in their place was a vast emptiness with a primordial force. This energy pervaded the area without dispersing.

A new life seemed to have been born in this primordial chaos in the form of a new world. An unprecedented grand dao was taking shape… After a long time, all of the aspects of a universe could be found.

This was a place without the concept of time. Eventually, lightning appeared in this chaos, issuing thunderous blasts. Countless planes were moving with the coming of a new world.

A while later, a boom resounded. It wasn’t particularly loud, but it seemed to travel from the past to the future — a force capable of crossing one era to another. The primordial chaos was finally opened. If anyone was standing here, they would feel that this was the beginning of a new world.

The thing splitting the primordial chaos open was not the legendary great axe but a particular grand dao. It was simple and unadorned yet very real and coarse. A pure energy slowly came by while the impurities descended. A light flashed everywhere in this new dawn. This energy turned into stars and the flow of water turned into an ocean. The quaking of the chaos turned into the sounds of the world…

The dao did its work inside this heaven and earth. It seemed to have been slumbering and existed even at the initial inception of the world. An outsider would be able to see the evolution of this land. As moments passed, the stars in the sky became brighter with the sun and moon floating up and down. Time came into existence at last.

Creatures were being born on this plane. Beasts roamed the earth while birds soared in the sky. Some began to cultivate and made their mark in this world.

The years went on and the nebula became brighter. It was leading this world to a new golden age. The creatures here became exceedingly powerful. Some were able to grasp the sun and moon and pluck the stars. They traveled through the sky freely while refining all in their path…

Alas, such a splendid era didn’t last for long. A disaster eventually came as stars fell from the sky. The celestials lost their brilliance as the inhabitants of this world put their greed first…

Under this disaster, repugnant beings came into existences. They ravaged the land and murdered the inhabitants. It became a scene of carnage very quickly.

Eventually, all creatures headed for extinction. The repugnant beings ruled the world after killing everything.

Kill one hundred to be a marquis, one thousand to be a monarch, ten thousand to be a king, one million to be an emperor, and kill them all to be the greatest fiend!

An ultimate fiend finally emerged in this bloody era. It swallowed all the other evil creatures and annihilated this land in its effort to become the master of the Yin and Yang.

Finally, with the greatest explosion, the world collapsed along with the howling fiend. It all returned to the void. There was no longer a great world or any existence for that matter. Even time was no exception…

The wheel turned again with the emergence of a glimmer in the empty void. The chaos began to gestate life, time, and the grand dao once more…

A new cycle and era begun. In this one, immortals were climbing to the peak and prosperity was everywhere…

Over time, some immortals turned evil. The world was destroyed once more to enter a new cycle. This cycle of creation and destruction continued, only the grand dao was unchanging.

The world was able to begin anew due to this dao. Myriad existences were able to climb to the top in their golden era thanks to this dao. The collapse of all things was also because of this dao…

This was a force beyond time and the reincarnation cycle. Regardless of whether it became a god, devil, or immortal, it continued to exist in spite of its form.

Astonishment would be the only emotion found in any spectator privileged enough to see this scene. This was a world-creating dao that continued for countless cycles — an eternal dao. Of course, its form was always different.

This was Li Qiye’s grand dao. Creation into reproduction into dissipation, all for the sake of this timeless dao. This dao dominated all aspects. It dominated the heavens, the reincarnation cycle, creation and destruction…

Any knowledgeable person would be frightened if they were here to see this. A cultivator could create a grand dao. However, to a large extent, it would only be grasping the heavenly dao and using its rules to create a new dao. Because of this, the path of the heavens became a popular belief. A dao creator could eventually be recognized by the Heaven’s Will and compete for it to become emperor.

There were also levels on this particular path. From weakest to strongest, they are Dao Apprentice, Dao Master, Dao Sovereign, Celestial Mortal, Celestial General, Celestial God, Emperor Reserve, and Emperor Candidate.

Within this realm, Celestial Mortal was the start of dao creation. From that, one would gain the ability to sense the Heaven’s Will.

At the level of Emperor Reserve, their dao would be perfected and readied to shoulder the Heaven’s Will along with its power. If this dao failed to be recognized by the Heaven’s Will, the user wouldn’t be able to enter the competition to be emperor. Only grand dao recognized by the Heaven’s Will would earn this opportunity to vie for the throne.

However, Li Qiye’s grand dao wasn’t created for the Heaven’s Will. It has directly opened up its own world and started a new era. In this place, his dao was alone, he was the lord of all.

Due to its domination, even if Li Qiye wanted to seize the Heaven’s Will, his grand dao still wouldn’t accept it. It would control the Heaven’s Will instead since this could only be considered a certain force within his grand dao, not its entirety.

In this manner, this dao continued to develop cycles of reincarnation. After countless eras, everything disappeared while Li Qiye took form in front of the great mirror again.

At this moment, he opened his eyes, revealing an extremely clear and simple glare. There was no frightening glint or profound look, it was the simplest and most sincere pair of eyes.

“A grand dao just like the genesis of all.”

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johnsmjs36

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I think Etriel is mistaking ED/ISSTH with powersystem such as DBZ or Marvel and DC. The level are determined by not sheer power but understanding the laws. Think of The Ultimate power as a human body. The lowest will be Cells or in Xianxia Qi Condensation where they build foundation with laws. Then they begin to practice laws forming tissues. Slowly by slowly they have to comprehend the laws. Its how their powersystem works in general.

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etriel

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#26  Edited By etriel  Online

@johnsmjs36 said:

I think Etriel is mistaking ED/ISSTH with powersystem such as DBZ or Marvel and DC. The level are determined by not sheer power but understanding the laws. Think of The Ultimate power as a human body. The lowest will be Cells or in Xianxia Qi Condensation where they build foundation with laws. Then they begin to practice laws forming tissues. Slowly by slowly they have to comprehend the laws. Its how their powersystem works in general.

What? DC has a "sheer power" tiering system? No it doesn't. If it does, slap me in the face because I don't remember such a thing.

Nearly all, if not all Source Wall+ God Tiers, from the Endless, the Monitors, the Super-Celestials, the Source Judges, the Angels, etc. all came about the same way. First Conceptual Archetypes, Molded within the Void beyond all Voids/God. They are not "X Dimensional" their Dimension is God's Mind. Unsurpassable Omnipotent-Sized Infinity.

They are not Infinite-D or even Infinite over beyond Infinity-D, they are God's Unlimited Mind-D. (To make zgtfreak understand what I am saying, they are Akasha-D.).

Perpetua and Lucifer for example, derive their power from God, the Source. Lucifer and Perpetua are equals. So why is Lucifer superior to Perpetua? He isn't. Using "power" to determine the unscalable 0/1 Tier A Archetypes is useless.

It's only because of an Intellectual Property, of what Lucifer represents. God's Will, and Will overpowers the power of the Power of Unlimited Imagination that Perpetua represents. Because Imagination is nothing without Will. That's why Lucifer remains the most powerful creation of Omnipotence before he fell. Not "superior" but because Imagination can be cancelled out by Will conceptually.

Will rules over DC's Hierarchy. Because the Will of the Presence begat all other Concepts. It is not a quality conceptual superiority, it is an intellectual logical superiority. And Lucifer was assigned an aspect of this power.

-----

Even DC's Cosmology on its own is strange. The Realm of Imagination or the Sphere of the Gods increases/adds new higher dimensions based on the beliefs of humanity. Numbers mean nothing, it is all imagination.

---------

It is clear to me that DC does not follow a "sheer power" system as you say, and DC never focused on dimensions or ladderversals hierarchy for power like Umineko. It never did, and that's the point. Arguing otherwise is headcanon.

If DC does have a "sheer power" system among its Reality Warpers, this applies to those like Mxy or Dr. Manhattan, but never the Tier As.

Now that might apply to Marvel? But not DC.

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johnsmjs36

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@etriel: I am talking about the herald tiers, street tiers etc.

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zgtfreak

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#28  Edited By zgtfreak

@etriel: (To make zgtfreak understand what I am saying, they are Akasha-D.)

I actually heard recently from Mrballins that Amaterasu told someone (I believe it was Kiara) that she needed to reach Akasha's domain to even remotely stand a chance against her. And Amaterasu is inferior to Arcueid. I don't know the context behind this though, as I haven't seen it myself. But if this is true, then it further explains why CCC stated that Gilgamesh and BB have no chance against Amaterasu, while base Arcueid does. And it would mean that base Arcueid is already being compared to a boundless entity.

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johnsmjs36

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#29  Edited By johnsmjs36

@etriel: Also, how do you tier something that is based on comprehension?

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ThisIsAUsername

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@johnsmjs36: Should be on how op their hax and power is from their comprehension, or how close they are to the Supreme Dao.

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zgtfreak

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@mrballins Do you have that Amaterasu quote on you? It causes one contradiction with CCC. I'd like to check it for myself.

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etriel

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#32  Edited By etriel  Online
@thisisausername said:

@johnsmjs36: Should be on how op their hax and power is from their comprehension, or how close they are to the Supreme Dao.

Lucifer is God's literal boundless will over all Archetypal Outcomes, Change, Imagination, Dualities, Singularities, Trialities, Symmetries, Concepts. There we tiered him. There we solved it.

That was not difficult... at all.

0 is 1 and 1 is 0, this is an absolute. Why do some fall under the belief in certain absolutes, then stop when it comes to Omnipotence? It's solved. It's only some people make it harder than it needs to be when thinking.

The problem with 0/1 and Tier A fights is that you are crossing over two fictions with literal Omnipotents. I told someone before that if you are gonna do this, you have to assume the two Omnipotents are the same. Then not only are 0/0 vs 0/0 fights impossible to determine, the same for 0/1s vs 0/1s as well.

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ovy7

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Hm, not knowledgeable on the Xianxia team and their abilities, but would it be helpful for team 1 if Battler created clones of himself? He inherited Beato's powers, and she could do that, and mixed with the Endless Magic, Battler could possibly create infinite copies of himself.

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zgtfreak

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@etriel: Can high tier A's have linear power, but their hax and existences kinda ignore all of that? Amaterasu originally was stated to be able to be effected by a 1/6 stat reduction ability, which may hinder her. But seems to go entirely beyond that. Like one shotting the Moon Cell into resetting itself and changing its laws. Amaterasu's info is very scant. She seems to have linear power, but tier A hax if we go off of her new statement of needing to reach Akasha to even stand a chance against her. That may just be empty boast from her though (or a recton).

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zgtfreak

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#35  Edited By zgtfreak
@ovy7 said:

Hm, not knowledgeable on the Xianxia team and their abilities, but would it be helpful for team 1 if Battler created clones of himself? He inherited Beato's powers, and she could do that, and mixed with the Endless Magic, Battler could possibly create infinite copies of himself.

That's essentially mimicking omnipresence, which Arcueid's speed alone can also reach via scaling to Gilgamesh. That may help if Team 2 isn't omnipresent.

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johnsmjs36

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@ovy7: Meng Hao can create clones too

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zgtfreak

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johnsmjs36

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@zgtfreak: @ovy7: Li Qiye's Soaring Immortal Physique is so fast that it goes beyond the realm of speed. That's why it is called infinite speed. He also has Void Pbysique:

“The Seashield Prince’s Void Physique is quite terrifying. Not only can he conceal everything, he is also omnipresent.” Someone murmured while looking at the youth standing in the sky.

This was one of the magical properties of the Void Physique. It allowed for its user to be undetectable while being able to reach any location.

At minor completion, their body could fuse with space. It could even be said that space became their body itself. Thus, they were omnipresent. Some people even said that Void Physique users were the most suitable to become assassins.

The prince’s physique hadn’t reached grand completion just yet, but his half completion physique was enough for him to exert a mighty force.

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johnsmjs36

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@zgtfreak: He hasn't created an infinite amount but he can use Karmic Hex to sever the connection between the clones.

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zgtfreak

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#40  Edited By zgtfreak

@johnsmjs36: Well if he's omnipresent, then he equals them in that regard.

I'm still not sure who wins, even though you do. I'll read more into some of this. Seems interesting.

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ovy7

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@johnsmjs36: I don't think speed is an issue or anything like that, considering that Battler just after getting his powers (but before getting recognized as a Sorcerer, which, IIRC, is a pretty important step) was fighting at speeds where concepts like distance became meaningless. Arcueid probably has something similar, but you wanna ask Zgt for that.

He hasn't created an infinite amount but he can use Karmic Hex to sever the connection between the clones.

What do you mean by "connection between the clones"?

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johnsmjs36

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@ovy7: Karmic Hex is basically a Causality, Fate manipulation and Existence Erasure. He can even erase concepts. So, I said be could sever the connection between the clones and their source.

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@johnsmjs36: Karmic manipulation is pretty op. You could kill a dude, and all versions of himself, past, present and future, alternate versions from alternate universes will be killed. Not to mention if it's a higher tier Karmic Manip, it could even kill everything that person is related to, including someone he passed by the market or something like that, and it kill everyone he has karmic ties with, and those people that he has karmic ties with will be killed, and the web of karma continues.

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zgtfreak

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#44  Edited By zgtfreak
@johnsmjs36 said:

@ovy7: Karmic Hex is basically a Causality, Fate manipulation and Existence Erasure. He can even erase concepts. So, I said be could sever the connection between the clones and their source.

Oh, that's what Karmic Hex is? BB, Gilgamesh, and Amaterasu can do all of that. Here is Amaterasu ignoring causality:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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johnsmjs36

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#45  Edited By johnsmjs36

@zgtfreak: No, that is just making it simple. But in a way you could say that. But it is a separate law.

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ThisIsAUsername

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#46  Edited By ThisIsAUsername

@zgtfreak:It is much deeper than that.

Here is a quote from chapter 1587 of ISSTH.

“Back when I was in my prime, I laced the starry sky of the Vast Expanse with a curse. The Ghost could not see it. The Devil was not qualified to activate it. Even the God didn’t trigger it. But today, you will see it, Meng Hao. You will see it....

“It is a curse fueled by the power of my true form, unleashed by the last scrap of my will within the starry sky of the Vast Expanse. It is my curse, created countless years ago....”

In response to Allheaven’s words, Meng Hao’s pupils constricted, and his heart began to pound. Clearly, Allheaven was not simply trying to sound mysterious and impressive. He had no reason to do such a thing.

His words revealed a very disturbing truth: if this so-called curse had been created during Allheaven’s prime, then considering the current level of Meng Hao’s cultivation base, it would most likely be impossible for him to break it.

In his prime, Allheaven had commanded terrifying, unimaginable power. In fact, he was so powerful that neither the Ghost, the Devil, nor the God had been able to do anything more than destroy one of his fingers!

Meng Hao’s eyes began to widen. Allheaven’s connection to the starry sky of the Vast Expanse was utterly and thoroughly severed. Even still, though, Meng Hao could not prevent a sense of dread from seeping into his heart.

He was not disheartened, though. Although he wasn’t sure about the exact nature of the curse, he was sure it had something to do with Karma. Therefore, as long as he was willing to pay the price, he should be able to fight back against it. Even Allheaven at his prime would not be able to kill him with just a curse.

Meng Hao’s face was very grim as the crumbling, vanishing Allheaven spoke in a voice that seemed to contain bizarre and mysterious power: “Any person who kills me....”

Unexpectedly, his words began to resonate with the entire starry sky!

Shockingly, despite the fact that Meng Hao had completely severed Allheaven’s connection to the starry sky of the Vast Expanse, he was still able to form a resonance with it. That caused Meng Hao’s expression to become even grimmer than before.

“... shall find that his people, his bloodlines, everyone connected to him by Karma, everything connected to the Karma of those people, and anyone connected to that greater web of Karma, will be cursed!

“It will spread from this one point outwards, and it will spread yet again from those it spreads to, on and on until it has nowhere left to spread!

“Everyone within that range, everything within that scope, all lives... shall be cursed by Allheaven!

“My curse upon them is thus: in their lives, time is limited!

“No type of cultivation magic, no type of bloodline power, no type of precious material, no type of reincarnation, will be even slightly effective in breaking the curse!

“Because the curse does not affect Transcendent cultivators, it can exist for all eternity!”

As Allheaven’s words rang out, it was clear that he was speaking them in the present, and yet somehow, it seemed as if they were being spoken countless years in the past. In fact, if one listened closely, it almost seemed like two different voices, one in the past, one in the present, joining together, melding, causing everything to shake!

Furthermore, it seemed as if the resonance with the starry sky wasn't being formed by Allheaven’s current power, but rather, by the Allheaven of the past, when he was in his prime. He had created this curse countless years ago, then buried it, where it had remained hidden until this day.

His Karmic Curse was so powerful that The Ghost, an entity on par with Meng Hao, could not see it. The Devil and The God weren't qualified to activate it, and The Devil and The God are more powerful than EOS Meng Hao. This was Prime Allheaven, probably the 3rd most powerful entity we know in Er Gen verse, with the True Immortal and Lord Fifth's master probably being stronger than him. He is only a clone of the True Immortal, who is the strongest being we know yet in Er Gen verse. Even three entities on par or most likely more powerful than Meng Hao could only destroy one of his fingers.

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DrakoTheGhoul

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#47  Edited By DrakoTheGhoul

I wonder why no one ever uses Wang Lin in battles. His True or False Dao is borderline broken from what i remember. His Flowing Time is pretty insane too, on top of his Dream Dao. I'm sure he has more as I'm on a break from that series for a few weeks now until the last 100 something chapters are finished translated.

As for the fight I'm not entirely sure. I tried reading Emperor Domination but after i checked the reviews for it. It's nothing but a power fantasy, where the MC is a arrogant Op character who never struggles in battles from what other people was saying.

So I'll say if i had to choose I'd lean more towards Team 2 only because i, myself personally, don't see how Battler could counter the teams Dao. Dao is somewhat like Belief, faith or way of life from my understanding. Example The True or False Dao makes it so as long as Wang lin believes in his Heart that it's true or false, it truly will be.

Now I'm not saying for sure team 1 loses only that I'm siding with Team 2 because I'm more familiar with the characters. Heck, It could be a stalemate for all i would know.

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zgtfreak

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#48  Edited By zgtfreak

@thisisausername: His words revealed a very disturbing truth: if this so-called curse had been created during Allheaven’s prime, then considering the current level of Meng Hao’s cultivation base, it would most likely be impossible for him to break it.

So if he was at a higher cultivation, he could break it? I don't see this effecting Arcueid or Battler if it is based off of some linear system.

Battler's Golden Longsword is also an evolved version of this:

No Caption Provided

Also, is Er Genverse just ISSTH? Or all of these Xianxia novels? (Sorry for asking a stupid question.)

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johnsmjs36

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@drakotheghoul: Not many people know of him. I have yet to read Xian Ni and only read the manhua. But this guy was broken before even reaching Foundation Establishment. He could survive with his body erased, freeze even the non physical attacks, manipulate soul, feed on soul, cross 1000 km in a few breaths,etc. This guy would be a terror to most HST characters and street level beings and even some herald bricks despite being in Qi Condensation.

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johnsmjs36

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@zgtfreak: ErGenVerse consists of Xian Ni, ISSTH, A Will Eternal, Pursuit of the Truth.