EOS Aizen vs Juubi Madara

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kingogkings777

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And here comes Mr. KS wOrKeD on yhwach durr........

Isn't that the excuse you use for any Yhwach vs Naruto fights?

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kingogkings777

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@gilateen said:

@Aristeaus:

3. KS is still an illusion and can be seen through by Sharingan, Hebi Sasuke only used 3-Tomoe Sharingan to see through itachi’s Tsukuyomi which has better feats than KS since it affects time and space while KS only affects the 5 sense, something which Genjutsu does but more.

Scans now, if you don't mind.

Also F in chat for trying to use the bold option.

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@ultimatesage said:

And here comes Mr. KS wOrKeD on yhwach durr........

Isn't that the excuse you use for any Yhwach vs Naruto fights?

not really......I barely adopted this today.......:/

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ManimalMan

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@revold: nope, visual genjutsu and auditory genjutsu arent only genjutsu more types than that. Some work through proximity, some work through touch and just about anything else. Itachi could even cast genjutsu by pointing at a target.

read the chapter when its cast. It affects people who are sleeping, people indoors,people with sunglasses, animals etc

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Revold

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@revold: nope, visual genjutsu and auditory genjutsu arent only genjutsu more types than that. Some work through proximity, some work through touch and just about anything else. Itachi could even cast genjutsu by pointing at a target.

read the chapter when its cast. It affects people who are sleeping, people indoors,people with sunglasses, animals etc

Itachi's Genjutsu only works with victim's eye contact as well. I'd like you to give examples/scans for the other forms of Genjutsu you just claimed. But regardless, all of your claims also still requires some sensory to administer the Genjutsu. Your job isn't to just show me the existence of these other forms, but also to show me that IT is one of them and not the visual based. Which is highly unlikely since it specifically said it uses light.

People who are sleeping/indoors/sunglasses still can detect light. IT's light is strong enough to turn night into day so that isn't surprising. Even some blind people can detect light. Hogyoku isn't even blind, it completely lacks vision.

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Gilateen

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kingogkings777

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@gilateen said:

@kingogkings777: Scans of what?

1. an be seen through by Sharingan

2. Hebi Sasuke only used 3-Tomoe Sharingan to see through itachi’s Tsukuyomi which has better feats than KS since it affects time and space

3. Genjutsu does but more

These 3 things you said

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Aristeaus

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wut? Did KS do something else besides controlling the 5 senses.......just like basic Genjutsu does

Nope. He just uses it more effectively.

Itachi, kakashi, Kurenai, Madara, and Sasuke say hi.

No, they don't. The only person on that list I can even remember trying to use it combat wise is Kurenai vs Itachi. Unless your counting the fighting inside of the genjutsu itself ( which isn't real ).

Energies don't have to be equalized for Madara to be able to see through KS, he's sharingan will just see through the illusion. And no, the sharingan being able to see chakra therefore becomes "aware" of the Genjutsu does not make them see through the Genjutsu. If that was true then everyone with a Byakugan would straighten up be superior to the sharingan, no?

Having the Sharingan does not allow you to see through illusions. That isn't how it works. There is tons of examples of this being the case. How many Sharingan users have been caught in genjutssu again? Damn near all of them?

Sharingan allows you to see Chakra, thus being able to counter it. Its pretty well established.

As far as Byakugan is concerned, yes, it is straight up superior to the Sharingan. Byakugan > Regular Sharingan. Tenseigan > MS.

Really?? Can momo soul crush kaguya? Can she soul crush madara too? Show feats of Aizen using soul crush on someone stronger than him, even if it doesn't matter: soul crush gg no more

Show feats of Madara resisting soul effects. You are on the wrong side of the argument. We have feats. If this was a CaV, you need to argue against those feats as to why they WOULDN'T work, not the other way around. It is established that Soul Crush is a thing.

Let me explain how dumb your counter is... It would be like me assuming that Genjutsu wouldn't work on Aizen at all. Genjutsu, like SC, is a established thing in Naruto, and yet it is never used on God Tier characters, or anyone for that matter on the level of Aizen.

See. Dumb. Ofcourse Genjutsu would work ( though, there is still the whole "Needs chakra argument"... but to tired for all that ). Same goes for Soul Crush. Kaguya probably would be damaged by it, but likely not killed. There is a limit, and its probably anyone stronger then the user like most things. I still contest that Aizen has more power then Madara. Though, even if you think Madara is stronger, the point is you can't just simply ignore Soul Crush.

Aizen "said', but like every statement in bleach......where's the feat? And lol, I could use statements too, the juubi.....you know thing madara absorbed?yeah that thing, it has "immeasurable" amounts of energy.....what do you think about that??

For reals, no, madara has more power than Aizen any day, that's why he's more powerful than him lol

Aizen did not say, he did. He got stopped, but its not in Aizens character to try something that he thought wouldn't work. Gotta do better then that.

There is no doubt Madara has a ton of power from the Juubi. But its not the same as Aizen, close, but not the same.

You're right, madara is stronger, faster, more durable, has more technique s to one shot or seal, and can always Genjutsu the guy

He is not more durable then Aizen. That is a preposterous statement. Aizen is immortal, and NO SOLD Ywachs blast. That blast destroyed his chair. The same chair that No Sold Aizen's Reiatsu. He also survived Yhwachs dimension busting power. Aizen is quite a bit more durable then Madara.

Look, in a regular, restricted fight... Madara wins. But without restrictions he doesn't.

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Gilateen

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#60  Edited By Gilateen

@kingogkings777:

1. And why can’t dojutsu like Sharingan see through KS?

2. Can KS control time and space? If so then scans please.

3. Uchiha Genjutsu does indeed do more.

Plus m on mobile so....No, not posting scans. Besides you show know what I’m talking about if you even read the series.

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kingogkings777

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@gilateen said:

@kingogkings777:

1. And why can’t dojutsu like Sharingan see through KS?

Provide scans

2. Can KS control time and space? If so then scans please.

nice counter where are the scans like I asked?

3. Uchiha Genjutsu does indeed do more.

You said genjutsu not uchiha genjutsu

Plus m on mobile so....No, not posting scans. Besides you show know what I’m talking about if you even read the series.

so its a bunch of fanon then neat, since you're making an excuse to not provide scans that don't exist im assuming

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Gilateen

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#62  Edited By Gilateen

@kingogkings777:

1. I really don’t have too, you wouldn’t concede even if I provided them.

2. Don’t have to show them. Look for it yourself, I’m not spoon feeding you.

3. So?

4. Call it excuse if you want, everyone pretty much knows that madara wins.

5. And you still haven’t answered mine, can KS control time and space?

You even said mayuri solos the verse so now i know that you won’t concede even if I did show scans, you’ll just make up stuff anyway.

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kingogkings777

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@gilateen said:

@kingogkings777:

1. I really don’t have too, you wouldn’t concede even if I provided them.

So you don't have them cool, thanks for playing the game and take your L

2. Don’t have to show them. Look for it yourself, I’m not spoon feeding you.

Lol, so you create fanon to try and make Naruto win

3. So?

Cause theirs a difference, if you didn't which i doubt you did

4. Call it excuse if you want, everyone pretty much knows that madara wins.

lol, cant prove your statements so you go straight to "MadArA wINs thOUgH"

5. And you still haven’t answered mine, can KS control time and space?

Why should I when you have failed to provide scans of your statements?

You even said mayuri solos the verse so now i know that you won’t concede even if I did show scans, you’ll just make up stuff anyway.

FING LOL, COPE HARDER MAN

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Gilateen

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#64  Edited By Gilateen

@kingogkings777:

1. Guess what? Maddy has the majority in this thread so you take the L. It ain’t like you have scans yourself anyway. This has been done to death a million times anyway.

2. Lol so you creat fanon and try to make bleach win in every Bleach vs naruto or op thread.

3. Ok? Doubt all you want, doesn’t phase me one bit.

4. Ok? I can say it anytime I want.

5. Don’t have to. Oh yeah that reminds me, Last time we debated, I asked First for scans and you didn’t provide any so now you’ll know how it feels to not get what you asked for. This is definitely payback.

6. You sayin that cause you know I’m right.

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stalemate

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Zuriel-el

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Madara solos the verse

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@Aristeaus:

Nope. He just uses it more effectively.

More effectively?? In what way lmao? they both control the 5 senses......Genjutsu even goes as far as leaving Genjutsu traps in the environment itself lol

No, they don't. The only person on that list I can even remember trying to use it combat wise is Kurenai vs Itachi. Unless your counting the fighting inside of the genjutsu itself ( which isn't real ).

I advice you to reread the sasuke vs itachi fight, the kakashi vs itachi fight and the madara vs fodder army fight then:/......all those fights used Genjutsu as a part of their combat

Having the Sharingan does not allow you to see through illusions. That isn't how it works. There is tons of examples of this being the case. How many Sharingan users have been caught in genjutssu again? Damn near all of them?

Have the sasuke does allow you to see through illusions, and that's exactly how it works. We're already told of this. And I never said that having the Sharingan means you can't get caught in a illusion, I said you would see through it. All those sharingan users who got caught in a illusion saw through it damn near instantly too

Sharingan allows you to see Chakra, thus being able to counter it. Its pretty well established.

Byakugan allows you to see chakra better than the sharingan......but can't see through a Genjutsu? Nor is it mention or recognized as a being able to render Genjutsu useless like the sharingan??k

As far as Byakugan is concerned, yes, it is straight up superior to the Sharingan. Byakugan > Regular Sharingan. Tenseigan > MS.

And as far as the manga is concerned, no, it's straight up not. And the tenseigan is said to be the Rinnegans equal(iirc) so no du it's>>MS

Show feats of Madara resisting soul effects. You are on the wrong side of the argument. We have feats. If this was a CaV, you need to argue against those feats as to why they WOULDN'T work, not the other way around. It is established that Soul Crush is a thing.

Not really, soul crush is something that works depending on power lvs......you have to show feats of aizen using it on someone stronger than him. I can easily just say Madara should be doing the "soul crushing" since Chakra is part spiritual energy and madara got more than aizen:/

Let me explain how dumb your counter is... It would be like me assuming that Genjutsu wouldn't work on Aizen at all. Genjutsu, like SC, is a established thing in Naruto, and yet it is never used on God Tier characters, or anyone for that matter on the level of Aizen.

lmao, Genjutsu and SC are completely incomparable lol. Genjutsu works whether or not the person being Genjutsued is stronger or weaker than the one casting it......SC, however does not follow that same process

See. Dumb. Ofcourse Genjutsu would work ( though, there is still the whole "Needs chakra argument"... but to tired for all that ).

Yes I do see, it's dumb lol. And no matter how much every single one of you bleach stan don't want to accept it.......chakra is not necessarily for Genjutsu to work.lol

Same goes for Soul Crush. Kaguya probably would be damaged by it, but likely not killed. There is a limit, and its probably anyone stronger then the user like most things. I still contest that Aizen has more power then Madara. Though, even if you think Madara is stronger, the point is you can't just simply ignore Soul Crush

Same doesn't go for SC. And you actually thinking momo can injure let alone damaged with SC inclines me to believe that you're trolling 0.o. And something irrelevant would logically be ignored

Aizen did not say, he did. He got stopped, but its not in Aizens character to try something that he thought wouldn't work. Gotta do better then that.

Right......so if Aizen had destroyed that city, for you that would have meant he had planet lv energy reserves??lmao, and did you steal that "millions of miles away" from leo? Yes, you gotta do better than that

There is no doubt Madara has a ton of power from the Juubi. But its not the same as Aizen, close, but not the same.

You're right again, it's not the same as Aizen's, it's above and beyond Aizen's

He is not more durable then Aizen. That is a preposterous statement. Aizen is immortal, and NO SOLD Ywachs blast. That blast destroyed his chair. The same chair that No Sold Aizen's Reiatsu. He also survived Yhwachs dimension busting power. Aizen is quite a bit more durable then Madara.

lmao wut?? What kind of undre tier scaling is that? Madara is immortal as well, Aizen "no selling" yhwach's country lv blast can't compete with Madara's surviving, in a weaker form, two above country lv attacks in succession. And how is his chair tanking his reiatsu impressive when he's only country lv? What dimension did yhwach "bust" again? Madara is more durable than Aizen.....that's a fact.

Look, in a regular, restricted fight... Madara wins. But without restrictions he doesn't.

Not only does Madara win whether or not there's restrictions, he stomps

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kingogkings777

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@gilateen said:

@kingogkings777:

1. Guess what? Maddy has the majority in this thread so you take the L. It ain’t like you have scans yourself anyway. This has been done to death a million times anyway.

So this is a popularity battle? Why isn't there a poll then?

*Says I don't post scans

*Looks at previous post when I make claims

*sees scans or no one bothers me about it so I have no point in posting scans

Nani?

2. Lol so you creat fanon and try to make bleach win in every Bleach vs naruto or op thread.

Post scans of your claims

3. Ok? Doubt all you want, doesn’t phase me one bit.

ok?

4. Ok? I can say it anytime I want.

ok?

5. Don’t have to. Oh yeah that reminds me, Last time we debated, I asked First for scans and you didn’t provide any so now you’ll know how it feels to not get what you asked for. This is definitely payback.

scans or you making stuff up again?

6. You sayin that cause you know I’m right.

you have yet to provide evidence to back up your claims, so no your not

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ourmanuel

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@Aristeaus:

Not really, soul crush is something that works depending on power lvs......you have to show feats of aizen using it on someone stronger than him. I can easily just say Madara should be doing the "soul crushing" since Chakra is part spiritual energy and madara got more than aizen:/

Everything you just said here is wrong

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@ultimatesage said:

@Aristeaus:

Not really, soul crush is something that works depending on power lvs......you have to show feats of aizen using it on someone stronger than him. I can easily just say Madara should be doing the "soul crushing" since Chakra is part spiritual energy and madara got more than aizen:/

Everything you just said here is wrong

no you, if you actually explain how it is what you think it is the world would be a great place to live

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kingogkings777

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@Aristeaus:

See. Dumb. Ofcourse Genjutsu would work ( though, there is still the whole "Needs chakra argument"... but to tired for all that ).

Yes I do see, it's dumb lol. And no matter how much every single one of you bleach stan don't want to accept it.......chakra is not necessarily for Genjutsu to work.lol

Isn't it necessary though?

We have Jiraiya explaining that it affects the chakra flowing through the cranial nerves and that the sage gave everyone chakra back in the past. So how do we get to the point of saying that they don't need chakra to be affected?

Is it cuz of a cat being affected that it's being based off of?

Chapters 259 and 665

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Not getting into that again

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Gilateen

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#74  Edited By Gilateen

@kingogkings777:

1. Who says this was a popularity fight, unless your saying that cause you know maddy wins, hehehehe. Even I know when my favorite character loses so it’s alright.

2. you never posted scans yourself even in our past debates so I won’t do it either.

3. ?

4. see? Now you playing dumb.

5. I could say the same for you, so what’s your point? Like I said since you never posted scans yourself In our past debates then I won’t do it either no matter how much you beg.

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kingogkings777

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kingogkings777

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@gilateen said:

@kingogkings777:

1. Who says this was a popularity fight, unless your saying that cause you know maddy wins, hehehehe. Even I know when my favorite character loses so it’s alright.

you implied it

2. you never posted scans yourself even in our past debates so I won’t do it either.

nice cop out once again with your paper thin argument

3. ?

?

4. see? Now you playing dumb.

see what? post scans

5. I could say the same for you, so what’s your point? Like I said since you never posted scans yourself In our past debates then I won’t do it either no matter how much you beg.

I never made any claims in the thread

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Gilateen

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@ourmanuel said:
@ultimatesage said:

@Aristeaus:

Not really, soul crush is something that works depending on power lvs......you have to show feats of aizen using it on someone stronger than him. I can easily just say Madara should be doing the "soul crushing" since Chakra is part spiritual energy and madara got more than aizen:/

Everything you just said here is wrong

no you, if you actually explain how it is what you think it is the world would be a great place to live

how about you go reread both series rather than misconstruin one ability and making up another

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Djoss

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Jubidara with zero diff

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@ultimatesage said:
@ourmanuel said:
@ultimatesage said:

@Aristeaus:

Not really, soul crush is something that works depending on power lvs......you have to show feats of aizen using it on someone stronger than him. I can easily just say Madara should be doing the "soul crushing" since Chakra is part spiritual energy and madara got more than aizen:/

Everything you just said here is wrong

no you, if you actually explain how it is what you think it is the world would be a great place to live

how about you go reread both series rather than misconstruin one ability and making up another

Ok, I take that as a "no Sage-sama, I can't explain it besides saying it's wrong", goodbye and thank you for your time

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Gilateen

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#82  Edited By Gilateen

@kingogkings777:

1. Yep, I implied that the majority is one-sided in Maddy’s favor. This has been done a million times anyway, it’s gonna eventually get locked again.?

2. And you have no counter to that “paper thin” argument.

3. You post scans, I already told you I’m not going to since you never did when I asked. Not until you stop being dumb anyway

4. Yes you did and don’t even think about saying “post scans” cause it won’t happen.

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ourmanuel

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@ultimatesage: you said naruto can soul crush and that reiatsu is based on power levels without providing further context

There, was that simple enough?

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@ultimatesage: you said naruto can soul crush and

sorry my bad, madara "chakra crushes"

that reiatsu is based on power levels without providing further context

Soooo, having more reiatsu does not matter in bleach??

There, was that simple enough?

it was great:)

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Zuriel-el

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Alive madara with two rinnegan wpuld beat aizen.

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SolidShadow134

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this has been gone over hundreds of times and the result never changes, yall be talking about not taking the bait but here you are getting hooked, cooked up and swallowed by the same stuff for the umpteenth time smh

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Alive madara with two rinnegan wpuld beat aizen.

No Caption Provided

now that's lowballing lol

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REQUIEMCROSS

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Aizen's KS is useless against Sharingan, the sharingan allows madara to see through illusions and counter them.

Madara on the other hand could simply separate Aizen's soul from his Reishi made body using his human path of the Rinnegan.

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Wanderez

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His soul is his body...

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@rikuyamaha said:
@wanderez said:

@rikuyamaha:

Chakra is physical and MENTAL energy, if you want official scans ask Kingogkings

what i can find is it saying spiritual energy and physical energy.

No Caption Provided
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Don't use poop fan translated scans, use the official ones.

https://imgur.com/a/ONn5eZq

For bleach fans who missed the connection of spiritual energy and mental energy:

No Caption Provided

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ourmanuel

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@ourmanuel said:

sorry my bad, madara "chakra crushes"

when has he or any one ever done that?

Soooo, having more reiatsu does not matter in bleach??

It does, but reiatsu and reiryoku are two different things

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Aristeaus

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@Aristeaus:

More effectively?? In what way lmao? they both control the 5 senses......Genjutsu even goes as far as leaving Genjutsu traps in the environment itself lol

Adaptation and more involvement in combat.

I advice you to reread the sasuke vs itachi fight, the kakashi vs itachi fight and the madara vs fodder army fight then:/......all those fights used Genjutsu as a part of their combat

So, 3 fights total in the entire series? Aizen does it all the time.

And as far as the manga is concerned, no, it's straight up not. And the tenseigan is said to be the Rinnegans equal(iirc) so no du it's>>MS

Cool. The Tenseigan is literally just the MS version of Byakugan. So, yeah, superior.

Not really, soul crush is something that works depending on power lvs......you have to show feats of aizen using it on someone stronger than him. I can easily just say Madara should be doing the "soul crushing" since Chakra is part spiritual energy and madara got more than aizen:/

Not at all how logic or battles work. That is completely and utterly batshit loony to even think that being on this board as long as you have. I never really considered you a Naruto Wanker, but damn dude, I am not sure how you can say that and still get respect here.

Take Dr. Manhattan. Hes got molecule manipulation. He can splat people with ease. Yea? Cept, hes only ever done it to a regular humans (Rorschach and Vietcong). So does this mean that his power set is invalid against anyone stronger then Human level? No. Because you would be laughed out of the thread.

If a feat has been established, it is debated against with defenses and counters, not with illogical "Show me it working on X". That is how kids CaV, and its sad.

Yes I do see, it's dumb lol. And no matter how much every single one of you bleach stan don't want to accept it.......chakra is not necessarily for Genjutsu to work.lol

There is a argument against that with supporting evidence. I am not trying to have that debate, because its just going to take us off track.

Same doesn't go for SC. And you actually thinking momo can injure let alone damaged with SC inclines me to believe that you're trolling 0.o. And something irrelevant would logically be ignored

The same momo that was injured by a Genin level ninja's CLONE? Yeah. He is weaksauce. Just a horrible example buddy.

Right......so if Aizen had destroyed that city, for you that would have meant he had planet lv energy reserves??lmao, and did you steal that "millions of miles away" from leo? Yes, you gotta do better than that

No, not necessarily. Its like Lille could bring down the cities as well, and hes clearly not planet level energy reserves.etc etc.. Aizen doing it with his energy reserves the way he was going to is impressive, and up there in total power. Its certainly far above anything Madara has shown. Those meteors are chump change.

lmao wut?? What kind of undre tier scaling is that? Madara is immortal as well, Aizen "no selling" yhwach's country lv blast can't compete with Madara's surviving, in a weaker form, two above country lv attacks in succession. And how is his chair tanking his reiatsu impressive when he's only country lv? What dimension did yhwach "bust" again? Madara is more durable than Aizen.....that's a fact.

Thats just simple logic. Its 1 + 2 = 3. Direct scaling. Not sure how its hard to follow.

Juubi Madara is not Immortal. He is no longer a Edo Tensei. He is living, and can be killed. You know he is dead, right?

Aizen, however, alive and well. From much stronger attacks. Madara couldn't take a fist through the chest, but Aizen did :-P

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@ourmanuel: I guess he is talking about the Hashirama and Tobirama chakra flex on Sasuke.

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#94  Edited By Revold
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@gilateen: @ultimatesage:

KS has indeed shown to manipulate the sense of time fyi.

The main selling point of KS isn't the 5 senses thing so many people preach on for some reason... It is that it is an AOE attack. While most genjutsu in Naruto only works on one individual at a time.

Also while I say about flaws, it might no longer be applicable to Muken when KS fused with Hogyoku. Remember when Aizen use to control what the victims see? He didn't for Yhwach and also he shouldn't know how Renji's and Ichigo's new Bankai look like. Which leads me to believe that Hogyoku is the one doing it by reading into people's desires.

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@ourmanuel: I guess he is talking about the Hashirama and Tobirama chakra flex on Sasuke.

how Is that related to soul crush?

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@ourmanuel: Ultimate was talking about chakra crush, I showed you an instance of one.

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AnimeFreak1

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Madara one shots no difficulty.

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Earendill

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#99  Edited By Earendill

Madara one shot. Not even close. EMS Madara would be more than enough to stomp him.

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@ourmanuel: Ultimate was talking about chakra crush, I showed you an instance of one.

That’s not chakra crushing(which doesn’t exist). He’s flexing his chakra and damaging the walls. Naruto does the same thing when he transformed against Pain. that’s Like comparing Kenny destroying city blocks by entering bankai to actual soul crush