Enerjak vs Lucifer Morningstar

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Frocharocha

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#1  Edited By Frocharocha

Clash of Titans! Enerjak finds about The Presence and wants to absorbs The Presence and recreate the Omniverse for his own, The Specter and Michael try's to stop him, but are unable to defeat him. Only Lucifer stands between him and The Presence. Booth battle to "death". Who wins?

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Powers: Virtually Omnipotence, Immortality, Matter Manipulation, teleportation, telepathy, mind control, levitation, control over matter and energy at a molecular level, electromagnetic pulse generation, super strength, Multiversal busting, almost immunity to any attacks.

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Powers: Virtual omnipotence, virtual omniscience, immortality.

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JackKnight

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Lucifer, easily.

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Frocharocha

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#3  Edited By Frocharocha

Lucifer, easily.

Uhhhh, mammoth Mogul had the pwoer to crush milins of multiverses with his bare hands. That using a portion of Enerjak power.

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JackKnight

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@frocharocha: And Lucifer tanks multiversal busting attacks and laughs.

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Frocharocha

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JackKnight

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Frocharocha

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@frocharocha: Lucifer is also omniversal LOL

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I was talking abour Lucifer... But yeah, Enerjak is also an Omniversal entity like Solaris.

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JackKnight

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@frocharocha: Then how come they both lost to Sonic? (or though I could be wrong about Enerjak).

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rolldestroyer

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1. Lucifer isn't omniversal.

2. i dont know much about archie comics, but based on the scan that was presented to me in a previous thread, it was pretty clear that mogul was crushing multiversal zones, meaning parts of the multiverse not multiverses.

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ComicStooge

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Morningstar wins.

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JackKnight

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1. Lucifer isn't omniversal.

2. i dont know much about archie comics, but based on the scan that was presented to me in a previous thread, it was pretty clear that mogul was crushing multiversal zones, meaning parts of the multiverse not multiverses.

1. Lucifer is omniversal, if you can create your own multiverse then have to be omniversal.

2. You are right Mammoth Mogul did hold the multiverse in his hand when he had some of Enerjak's powers. But regardless Lucifer still wins here very easily.

Orthough I will say this,

How on earth did Michael loose? Enerjak is arguably nothing compared to the Infinity Gauntlet! let along both Michael and Lucifer!!!!!!!!!!

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rolldestroyer

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#12  Edited By rolldestroyer

@rolldestroyer said:

1. Lucifer isn't omniversal.

2. i dont know much about archie comics, but based on the scan that was presented to me in a previous thread, it was pretty clear that mogul was crushing multiversal zones, meaning parts of the multiverse not multiverses.

1. Lucifer is omniversal, if you can create your own multiverse then have to be omniversal.

2. You are right Mammoth Mogul did hold the multiverse in his hand when he had some of Enerjak's powers. But regardless Lucifer still wins here very easily.

Orthough I will say this,

How on earth did Michael loose? Enerjak is arguably nothing compared to the Infinity Gauntlet! let along both Michael and Lucifer!!!!!!!!!!

1. not even close, omniverse is every possible multiverse, universe, dimension, etc....lucifer's is just one possible multiverse, a multiverse pales in comparison to what the omniverse is, it isn't a word to throw around.

though his range does indeed exceed mulitversal, for example when he was able to give Elaine's adoptive father (who was in yahweh's multiverse) a heart attack while he was in his own multiverse, with a gesture.

2. he didn't even hold the multiverse, in fact it was specifically stated multiversal zones, meaning only parts of the multiverse and not the multiverse as a whole, much less multiple multiverses

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JackKnight

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Also how the hell did Michael loose?

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NeonGameWave

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Enerjak should win, Morningstar is not omniversal he is not even Living Tribunal level he is only multiversal at max.

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#15  Edited By Ratatat

Lucifer

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JackKnight

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#16  Edited By JackKnight

@neongamewave said:

Enerjak should win, Morningstar is not omniversal he is not even Living Tribunal level he is only multiversal at max.

I'm sorry but what exactly has Enerjak done to proven he's on someone like the Living Tribunal's level?

When Mammoth Mongul had his powers he held pieces of the multiverse, BUT THATS IT!

Plus he got owned by the Master Emerald which is weaker then the Infinity Gauntlet.

What I'm saying is in terms of feats Lucifer curbstomps.

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NeonGameWave

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#17  Edited By NeonGameWave

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

Enerjak should win, Morningstar is not omniversal he is not even Living Tribunal level he is only multiversal at max.

I'm sorry but what exactly has Enerjak done to proven he's on someone like the Living Tribunal's level?

When Mammoth Mongul had his powers he held pieces of the multiverse, BUT THATS IT!

Plus he got owned by the Master Emerald which is weaker then the Infinity Gauntlet.

What I'm saying is in terms of feats Lucifer curbstomps.

Enerjak`s power comes from the Master Emerald power source, Lucifer cannot defeat him unless that source is depleted or shut down.

He held many multiverses and could crush them with ease also Enerjak is more powerful although there power comes from the same source he had a lot more Chaos Emeralds in his possession.

The Master Emerald>>>>>>Infinity Gauntlet also it was done through a sacrifice as well as a form of PIS, that is the only reason why he was depowered.

Enerjak has plenty of feats that would prove why he is above Lucifer.

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@

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

Enerjak should win, Morningstar is not omniversal he is not even Living Tribunal level he is only multiversal at max.

I'm sorry but what exactly has Enerjak done to proven he's on someone like the Living Tribunal's level?

When Mammoth Mongul had his powers he held pieces of the multiverse, BUT THATS IT!

Plus he got owned by the Master Emerald which is weaker then the Infinity Gauntlet.

What I'm saying is in terms of feats Lucifer curbstomps.

Enerjak`s power comes from the Master Emerald power source, Lucifer cannot defeat him unless that source is depleted or shut down.

He held many multiverses and could crush them with ease also Enerjak is more powerful although there power comes from the same source he had a lot more Chaos Emeralds in his possession.

The Master Emerald>>>>>>Infinity Gauntlet also it was done through a sacrifice as well as a form of PIS, that is the only reason why he was depowered.

Enerjak has plenty of feats that would prove why he is above Lucifer.

Infinity Gauntlet > Master Emerald, nuff said!

The Chaos Emeralds are basically Cosmic Cubs and the Master Emerald is a like a weaker Ultimate Nullifier and those object would be below the Infinity Gauntlet aswell.

The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald give you power and reality warping ability while the Infinity Gauntlet lets you control time, space, power, soul, mind, and reality granting omnipotence, and omniscience to the bearer.

there's nothing to suggest that anything in the Sonic universe that can make it's power and before you say "But the Infinity Gauntlet is universal" actually it's not, it's Multiversal (or that least the Classic version is) @killemall will tell you more.

But anyways getting back on topic can Lucifer beat Enerjak? the answer is yes, Lucifer has the ability to create multiverses and has also tanked a Multiversal attack without getting scratched.

Also Mammoth Mongul didn't hold and crushed many multiverses, he was crushing Multiversal "ZONES!" which means areas! Even @rolldestroyer would agree with me on that!

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NeonGameWave

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#19  Edited By NeonGameWave

@jackknight said:

@

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

Enerjak should win, Morningstar is not omniversal he is not even Living Tribunal level he is only multiversal at max.

I'm sorry but what exactly has Enerjak done to proven he's on someone like the Living Tribunal's level?

When Mammoth Mongul had his powers he held pieces of the multiverse, BUT THATS IT!

Plus he got owned by the Master Emerald which is weaker then the Infinity Gauntlet.

What I'm saying is in terms of feats Lucifer curbstomps.

Enerjak`s power comes from the Master Emerald power source, Lucifer cannot defeat him unless that source is depleted or shut down.

He held many multiverses and could crush them with ease also Enerjak is more powerful although there power comes from the same source he had a lot more Chaos Emeralds in his possession.

The Master Emerald>>>>>>Infinity Gauntlet also it was done through a sacrifice as well as a form of PIS, that is the only reason why he was depowered.

Enerjak has plenty of feats that would prove why he is above Lucifer.

Infinity Gauntlet > Master Emerald, nuff said!

The Chaos Emeralds are basically Cosmic Cubs and the Master Emerald is a like a weaker Ultimate Nullifier and those object would be below the Infinity Gauntlet aswell.

The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald give you power and reality warping ability while the Infinity Gauntlet lets you control time, space, power, soul, mind, and reality granting omnipotence, and omniscience to the bearer.

there's nothing to suggest that anything in the Sonic universe that can make it's power and before you say "But the Infinity Gauntlet is universal" actually it's not, it's Multiversal (or that least the Classic version is) @killemall will tell you more.

But anyways getting back on topic can Lucifer beat Enerjak? the answer is yes, Lucifer has the ability to create multiverses and has also tanked a Multiversal attack without getting scratched.

Also Mammoth Mongul didn't hold and crushed many multiverses, he was crushing Multiversal "ZONES!" which means areas! Even @rolldestroyer would agree with me on that!

Do you have proof of this claim or are you assuming it to be superior?

Not exactly, they might be similar in functionality but they grant far more in the degrees and measurements of power, they grant a multitude of things such as reality warping, invulnerability and control of time as well as space, the Master Emerald can be considered to be a multiversal power or above which ultimately would mean omniversal. Its pretty much thirteen emeralds being accounted for within the Chaos Emerald and also there is no proof that it is scaled to be of the Ultimate Nullifer`s power.

Partially correct. The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald grant those very exact same things such as control over time as well as space which was shown within the Sonic Archie comic series, The Infinity Gauntlet does not grant omnipotence or omiscience if that was the case then Living Tribunal wouldn`t be able to depower it. Sonic, Shadow and Silver in their Super Forms were powerful enough to take on Solaris a being that consumes dimensions and is omnipresent, all three of them are like flees compared to Enerjak the only reason Sonic had a chance was because he absorbed energies from the Master Emerald making him to be a near equal and within the same series, Ultra Sonic and Ultra Knuckles collided in which space and time were being destroyed or altered but they too are below Enerjak who never used his powers to his fullest but definitely can and could within the match its just the surroundings of limitations thare held to the weight of the story that limits him such as PIS.

That is not tue, the HOTU is on that level and I don`t believe Killemall would agree with that assertion due to the fact that it never showed that kind of power, Thanos did wipe out life ranging from the half of the universe and he defeated the Abstracts but it enver showed multiversal power.

That doesn`t prove he can win, Enerjak needs to be depowered does Lucifer have that power? No, the best he can do is try and convince Enerjak to relinquish his powers to him but the only thing that can depower Enerjak is the Master Emerald also Enerjak can produce more than multiversal levels of strikes also I`ve read the comics and seen many interpretations on the scans regarding Lucifer`s fight with this brother Michael and it`s extremely probable that Lucife rmanipulated the energies tha he tanked from Michael`s death/explosion that encompassed the multiverse due to his ability to manipulate matter while Michael can create matter from scratch.

I read the comics and I can post the scans he was holding multiversal zones which = multiverses it showed several also, and its a fact that Enerjak>>>>>Mogul due to exploiting the Chaos Power on a far greater level and reach also Enerjak`s power also stems from the imagination similar to a Green Lanter Ring in which he can virtually accomplish anything to his liking so he isn`t limited per say he is more so given the oppurtunities of wanting to win or lose.

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JackKnight

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#20  Edited By JackKnight

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

Enerjak should win, Morningstar is not omniversal he is not even Living Tribunal level he is only multiversal at max.

I'm sorry but what exactly has Enerjak done to proven he's on someone like the Living Tribunal's level?

When Mammoth Mongul had his powers he held pieces of the multiverse, BUT THATS IT!

Plus he got owned by the Master Emerald which is weaker then the Infinity Gauntlet.

What I'm saying is in terms of feats Lucifer curbstomps.

Enerjak`s power comes from the Master Emerald power source, Lucifer cannot defeat him unless that source is depleted or shut down.

He held many multiverses and could crush them with ease also Enerjak is more powerful although there power comes from the same source he had a lot more Chaos Emeralds in his possession.

The Master Emerald>>>>>>Infinity Gauntlet also it was done through a sacrifice as well as a form of PIS, that is the only reason why he was depowered.

Enerjak has plenty of feats that would prove why he is above Lucifer.

Infinity Gauntlet > Master Emerald, nuff said!

The Chaos Emeralds are basically Cosmic Cubs and the Master Emerald is a like a weaker Ultimate Nullifier and those object would be below the Infinity Gauntlet aswell.

The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald give you power and reality warping ability while the Infinity Gauntlet lets you control time, space, power, soul, mind, and reality granting omnipotence, and omniscience to the bearer.

there's nothing to suggest that anything in the Sonic universe that can make it's power and before you say "But the Infinity Gauntlet is universal" actually it's not, it's Multiversal (or that least the Classic version is) @killemall will tell you more.

But anyways getting back on topic can Lucifer beat Enerjak? the answer is yes, Lucifer has the ability to create multiverses and has also tanked a Multiversal attack without getting scratched.

Also Mammoth Mongul didn't hold and crushed many multiverses, he was crushing Multiversal "ZONES!" which means areas! Even @rolldestroyer would agree with me on that!

Do you have proof of this claim or are you assuming it to be superior?

Not exactly, they might be similar in functionality but they grant far more in the degrees and measurements of power, they grant a multitude of things such as reality warping, invulnerability and control of time as well as space, the Master Emerald can be considered to be a multiversal power or above which ultimately would mean omniversal. Its pretty much thirteen emeralds being accounted for within the Chaos Emerald and also there is no proof that it is scaled to be of the Ultimate Nullifer`s power.

Partially correct. The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald grant those very exact same things such as control over time as well as space which was shown within the Sonic Archie comic series, The Infinity Gauntlet does not grant omnipotence or omiscience if that was the case then Living Tribunal wouldn`t be able to depower it. Sonic, Shadow and Silver in their Super Forms were powerful enough to take on Solaris a being that consumes dimensions and is omnipresent, all three of them are like flees compared to Enerjak the only reason Sonic had a chance was because he absorbed energies from the Master Emerald making him to be a near equal and within the same series, Ultra Sonic and Ultra Knuckles collided in which space and time were being destroyed or altered but they too are below Enerjak who never used his powers to his fullest but definitely can and could within the match its just the surroundings of limitations thare held to the weight of the story that limits him such as PIS.

That is not tue, the HOTU is on that level and I don`t believe Killemall would agree with that assertion due to the fact that it never showed that kind of power, Thanos did wipe out life ranging from the half of the universe and he defeated the Abstracts but it enver showed multiversal power.

That doesn`t prove he can win, Enerjak needs to be depowered does Lucifer have that power? No, the best he can do is try and convince Enerjak to relinquish his powers to him but the only thing that can depower Enerjak is the Master Emerald also Enerjak can produce more than multiversal levels of strikes also I`ve read the comics and seen many interpretations on the scans regarding Lucifer`s fight with this brother Michael and it`s extremely probable that Lucife rmanipulated the energies tha he tanked from Michael`s death/explosion that encompassed the multiverse due to his ability to manipulate matter while Michael can create matter from scratch.

I read the comics and I can post the scans he was holding multiversal zones which = multiverses it showed several also, and its a fact that Enerjak>>>>>Mogul due to exploiting the Chaos Power on a far greater level and reach also Enerjak`s power also stems from the imagination similar to a Green Lanter Ring in which he can virtually accomplish anything to his liking so he isn`t limited per say he is more so given the oppurtunities of wanting to win or lose.

Actually the Infinity Gauntlet is Multiversal (or that least the classic version is) as it did almost destroyed the multiverse @killemall already posted scans on a "Who can defeat the Phoenix Force" thread.

It actually the Master Emerald is like the Ultimate Nullifier as the Ultimate Nullifier has the ability to create multiverses.

And what makes you think that the Infinity Gauntlet wouldn't beat Solaris? because he's omnipresent? Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet also beaten plenty of beings who were omnipresent aswell (or though I would put Solaris above them).

So what is Living Tribunal depowered the Infinity Gauntlet he would do the same to the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald and there is nothing to suggest that the Living Tribunal would be able to do that.

Also Mammoth Mongul he didn't even hold multiverses, in fact it was specifically stated multiversal zones, meaning only parts of the multiverse and not the multiverse as a whole, much less multiple multiverses.

But I digress that's just stop arguing.

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The_PAIN

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NeonGameWave

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#22  Edited By NeonGameWave

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

Enerjak should win, Morningstar is not omniversal he is not even Living Tribunal level he is only multiversal at max.

I'm sorry but what exactly has Enerjak done to proven he's on someone like the Living Tribunal's level?

When Mammoth Mongul had his powers he held pieces of the multiverse, BUT THATS IT!

Plus he got owned by the Master Emerald which is weaker then the Infinity Gauntlet.

What I'm saying is in terms of feats Lucifer curbstomps.

Enerjak`s power comes from the Master Emerald power source, Lucifer cannot defeat him unless that source is depleted or shut down.

He held many multiverses and could crush them with ease also Enerjak is more powerful although there power comes from the same source he had a lot more Chaos Emeralds in his possession.

The Master Emerald>>>>>>Infinity Gauntlet also it was done through a sacrifice as well as a form of PIS, that is the only reason why he was depowered.

Enerjak has plenty of feats that would prove why he is above Lucifer.

Infinity Gauntlet > Master Emerald, nuff said!

The Chaos Emeralds are basically Cosmic Cubs and the Master Emerald is a like a weaker Ultimate Nullifier and those object would be below the Infinity Gauntlet aswell.

The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald give you power and reality warping ability while the Infinity Gauntlet lets you control time, space, power, soul, mind, and reality granting omnipotence, and omniscience to the bearer.

there's nothing to suggest that anything in the Sonic universe that can make it's power and before you say "But the Infinity Gauntlet is universal" actually it's not, it's Multiversal (or that least the Classic version is) @killemall will tell you more.

But anyways getting back on topic can Lucifer beat Enerjak? the answer is yes, Lucifer has the ability to create multiverses and has also tanked a Multiversal attack without getting scratched.

Also Mammoth Mongul didn't hold and crushed many multiverses, he was crushing Multiversal "ZONES!" which means areas! Even @rolldestroyer would agree with me on that!

Do you have proof of this claim or are you assuming it to be superior?

Not exactly, they might be similar in functionality but they grant far more in the degrees and measurements of power, they grant a multitude of things such as reality warping, invulnerability and control of time as well as space, the Master Emerald can be considered to be a multiversal power or above which ultimately would mean omniversal. Its pretty much thirteen emeralds being accounted for within the Chaos Emerald and also there is no proof that it is scaled to be of the Ultimate Nullifer`s power.

Partially correct. The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald grant those very exact same things such as control over time as well as space which was shown within the Sonic Archie comic series, The Infinity Gauntlet does not grant omnipotence or omiscience if that was the case then Living Tribunal wouldn`t be able to depower it. Sonic, Shadow and Silver in their Super Forms were powerful enough to take on Solaris a being that consumes dimensions and is omnipresent, all three of them are like flees compared to Enerjak the only reason Sonic had a chance was because he absorbed energies from the Master Emerald making him to be a near equal and within the same series, Ultra Sonic and Ultra Knuckles collided in which space and time were being destroyed or altered but they too are below Enerjak who never used his powers to his fullest but definitely can and could within the match its just the surroundings of limitations thare held to the weight of the story that limits him such as PIS.

That is not tue, the HOTU is on that level and I don`t believe Killemall would agree with that assertion due to the fact that it never showed that kind of power, Thanos did wipe out life ranging from the half of the universe and he defeated the Abstracts but it enver showed multiversal power.

That doesn`t prove he can win, Enerjak needs to be depowered does Lucifer have that power? No, the best he can do is try and convince Enerjak to relinquish his powers to him but the only thing that can depower Enerjak is the Master Emerald also Enerjak can produce more than multiversal levels of strikes also I`ve read the comics and seen many interpretations on the scans regarding Lucifer`s fight with this brother Michael and it`s extremely probable that Lucife rmanipulated the energies tha he tanked from Michael`s death/explosion that encompassed the multiverse due to his ability to manipulate matter while Michael can create matter from scratch.

I read the comics and I can post the scans he was holding multiversal zones which = multiverses it showed several also, and its a fact that Enerjak>>>>>Mogul due to exploiting the Chaos Power on a far greater level and reach also Enerjak`s power also stems from the imagination similar to a Green Lanter Ring in which he can virtually accomplish anything to his liking so he isn`t limited per say he is more so given the oppurtunities of wanting to win or lose.

Actually the Infinity Gauntlet is Multiversal (or that least the classic version is) as it did almost destroyed the multiverse @killemall already posted scans on a "Who can defeat the Phoenix Force" thread.

It actually the Master Emerald is like the Ultimate Nullifier as the Ultimate Nullifier has the ability to create multiverses.

And what makes you think that the Infinity Gauntlet wouldn't beat Solaris? because he's omnipresent? Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet also beaten plenty of beings who were omnipresent aswell (or though I would put Solaris above them).

So what is Living Tribunal depowered the Infinity Gauntlet he would do the same to the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald and there is nothing to suggest that the Living Tribunal would be able to do that.

Also Mammoth Mongul he didn't even hold multiverses, in fact it was specifically stated multiversal zones, meaning only parts of the multiverse and not the multiverse as a whole, much less multiple multiverses.

But I digress that's just stop arguing.

The Classic Version to a degree but the more modern and defined version not so much also the Chaos Emeralds along with the Master Emerald can produce that same type of power and more.

Not exactly, that doesn`t make it like the Ultimate Nullifier also the Master Emerald can reach levels beyond multiverses, I`m pretty sure.

That isn`t my point, my point is Silver, Sonic, Shadow and Solaris are fleas in comparison to Enerjak even Mongul who had enough power to grasp and crush multiverses is inferior in power, Thanos doesn`t come close at all based on feats and facts.

Actually yeah there is, the difference between the two is that the Living Tribunal was given power over the Infinity Gauntlet and therefore has the authority to depower it, the Master Emerald is on par if not above the Living Tribunal in power while the Infinity Gauntlet is not there is no proof whatsoever only to that of your opinion in regards to him being able to replicate a feat he did so with something less of a threat.

Multiversal zones in the Sonic universe of the Archie Comics series equals multiverses considering the battle that took place between Ultra Sonic and Ultra Knuckles which affected all of reality also it doesn`t change the fact that Enerjak is more powerful than Mongul thus he would be able to accomplish that same feat and more.

Agreed.

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@neongamewave: @jackknight: Your debate is interesting, but is there anything you like me to add, in terms of IG or Cosmic Cube or HOTI?

BTW in all of IG history, 1 series and 1 particular writer, is the only one who has ever written IG to be even beyond multiversal in power because 4 gem, on their own, were able to destroy 2 prime universes (normally located in the center of the multiverse) of 2 different multiverses and everything in between including at least a realm (pocket dimension) that was part of neither (Crimson Cosmos).

So its upto you to see what power level you put that in.

I would have commented further, but i know absolutely nothing about enerjak apart from that his pic looks pretty pimped up :)

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#25  Edited By JackKnight
@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

Enerjak should win, Morningstar is not omniversal he is not even Living Tribunal level he is only multiversal at max.

I'm sorry but what exactly has Enerjak done to proven he's on someone like the Living Tribunal's level?

When Mammoth Mongul had his powers he held pieces of the multiverse, BUT THATS IT!

Plus he got owned by the Master Emerald which is weaker then the Infinity Gauntlet.

What I'm saying is in terms of feats Lucifer curbstomps.

Enerjak`s power comes from the Master Emerald power source, Lucifer cannot defeat him unless that source is depleted or shut down.

He held many multiverses and could crush them with ease also Enerjak is more powerful although there power comes from the same source he had a lot more Chaos Emeralds in his possession.

The Master Emerald>>>>>>Infinity Gauntlet also it was done through a sacrifice as well as a form of PIS, that is the only reason why he was depowered.

Enerjak has plenty of feats that would prove why he is above Lucifer.

Infinity Gauntlet > Master Emerald, nuff said!

The Chaos Emeralds are basically Cosmic Cubs and the Master Emerald is a like a weaker Ultimate Nullifier and those object would be below the Infinity Gauntlet aswell.

The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald give you power and reality warping ability while the Infinity Gauntlet lets you control time, space, power, soul, mind, and reality granting omnipotence, and omniscience to the bearer.

there's nothing to suggest that anything in the Sonic universe that can make it's power and before you say "But the Infinity Gauntlet is universal" actually it's not, it's Multiversal (or that least the Classic version is) @killemall will tell you more.

But anyways getting back on topic can Lucifer beat Enerjak? the answer is yes, Lucifer has the ability to create multiverses and has also tanked a Multiversal attack without getting scratched.

Also Mammoth Mongul didn't hold and crushed many multiverses, he was crushing Multiversal "ZONES!" which means areas! Even @rolldestroyer would agree with me on that!

Do you have proof of this claim or are you assuming it to be superior?

Not exactly, they might be similar in functionality but they grant far more in the degrees and measurements of power, they grant a multitude of things such as reality warping, invulnerability and control of time as well as space, the Master Emerald can be considered to be a multiversal power or above which ultimately would mean omniversal. Its pretty much thirteen emeralds being accounted for within the Chaos Emerald and also there is no proof that it is scaled to be of the Ultimate Nullifer`s power.

Partially correct. The Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald grant those very exact same things such as control over time as well as space which was shown within the Sonic Archie comic series, The Infinity Gauntlet does not grant omnipotence or omiscience if that was the case then Living Tribunal wouldn`t be able to depower it. Sonic, Shadow and Silver in their Super Forms were powerful enough to take on Solaris a being that consumes dimensions and is omnipresent, all three of them are like flees compared to Enerjak the only reason Sonic had a chance was because he absorbed energies from the Master Emerald making him to be a near equal and within the same series, Ultra Sonic and Ultra Knuckles collided in which space and time were being destroyed or altered but they too are below Enerjak who never used his powers to his fullest but definitely can and could within the match its just the surroundings of limitations thare held to the weight of the story that limits him such as PIS.

That is not tue, the HOTU is on that level and I don`t believe Killemall would agree with that assertion due to the fact that it never showed that kind of power, Thanos did wipe out life ranging from the half of the universe and he defeated the Abstracts but it enver showed multiversal power.

That doesn`t prove he can win, Enerjak needs to be depowered does Lucifer have that power? No, the best he can do is try and convince Enerjak to relinquish his powers to him but the only thing that can depower Enerjak is the Master Emerald also Enerjak can produce more than multiversal levels of strikes also I`ve read the comics and seen many interpretations on the scans regarding Lucifer`s fight with this brother Michael and it`s extremely probable that Lucife rmanipulated the energies tha he tanked from Michael`s death/explosion that encompassed the multiverse due to his ability to manipulate matter while Michael can create matter from scratch.

I read the comics and I can post the scans he was holding multiversal zones which = multiverses it showed several also, and its a fact that Enerjak>>>>>Mogul due to exploiting the Chaos Power on a far greater level and reach also Enerjak`s power also stems from the imagination similar to a Green Lanter Ring in which he can virtually accomplish anything to his liking so he isn`t limited per say he is more so given the oppurtunities of wanting to win or lose.

Actually the Infinity Gauntlet is Multiversal (or that least the classic version is) as it did almost destroyed the multiverse @killemall already posted scans on a "Who can defeat the Phoenix Force" thread.

It actually the Master Emerald is like the Ultimate Nullifier as the Ultimate Nullifier has the ability to create multiverses.

And what makes you think that the Infinity Gauntlet wouldn't beat Solaris? because he's omnipresent? Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet also beaten plenty of beings who were omnipresent aswell (or though I would put Solaris above them).

So what is Living Tribunal depowered the Infinity Gauntlet he would do the same to the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald and there is nothing to suggest that the Living Tribunal would be able to do that.

Also Mammoth Mongul he didn't even hold multiverses, in fact it was specifically stated multiversal zones, meaning only parts of the multiverse and not the multiverse as a whole, much less multiple multiverses.

But I digress that's just stop arguing.

The Classic Version to a degree but the more modern and defined version not so much also the Chaos Emeralds along with the Master Emerald can produce that same type of power and more.

Not exactly, that doesn`t make it like the Ultimate Nullifier also the Master Emerald can reach levels beyond multiverses, I`m pretty sure.

That isn`t my point, my point is Silver, Sonic, Shadow and Solaris are fleas in comparison to Enerjak even Mongul who had enough power to grasp and crush multiverses is inferior in power, Thanos doesn`t come close at all based on feats and facts.

Actually yeah there is, the difference between the two is that the Living Tribunal was given power over the Infinity Gauntlet and therefore has the authority to depower it, the Master Emerald is on par if not above the Living Tribunal in power while the Infinity Gauntlet is not there is no proof whatsoever only to that of your opinion in regards to him being able to replicate a feat he did so with something less of a threat.

Multiversal zones in the Sonic universe of the Archie Comics series equals multiverses considering the battle that took place between Ultra Sonic and Ultra Knuckles which affected all of reality also it doesn`t change the fact that Enerjak is more powerful than Mongul thus he would be able to accomplish that same feat and more.

Agreed.

The current 616 Infinity Gauntlet is universal (aswell as other versions), classic 616 Infinity Gauntlet however is multiversal and it was going to destroy all of reality.

It doesn't matter if Solaris is a super dimensional being who is omnipresent and is still a flee to Enerjak, Shuma-Gorath is a super dimensional being who is probably omnipresent aswell but he would get owned by the Infinity Gauntlet aswell.

The Master Emerald is kind of like the Source from DC which is also on par with the Infinity Gauntlet, I was wrong about Infinity Gauntlet > Master Emerald, it's more like Infinity Gauntlet = Master Emerald.

Also millions of multiverse zones actually means piece's of the multiverse, if it was millions of multiverses then it would have said "millions of multiverses".

Think of the multiverse as a city with billions of buildings, a minor bomb (Mammoth Mongul) instead of the actually one (Enerjak) blows up millions of buildings with would be city zones.

Talk to @rolldestroyer he will agree with me.

But for me I'm done talking about this, if you want to continue as I said talk to rolldestroyer.

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#26  Edited By rolldestroyer

@neongamewave:

i would like you to reference some feats for the master emerald, seeing how you put him above LT, he has to have power levels that dwarfs multiversal beings. Keep in mind, LT is not simply a multiversal entity, he can be considered a multi-multiversal entity, or as the handbook puts it - megaversal.

also, lucifer wasn't fighting michael in lucifer #13, it was a controlled detonation, and we see the demiurgic power explode at ground zero where lucifer was standing, only after that did he manipulate the energy. Another thing is that lucifer isn't just multiversal max, his power was able to reach out to yahweh's multiverse while being present in his own, though this is kind of contradictory to the fact that lucifer had to get the letter of passage to open the portal into the void.

and i do agree with jackknight's interpretation of the feat.

let's use a zone synonym to make it more clear: multiverse zones - multiverse areas.

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#27  Edited By NeonGameWave

@rolldestroyer said:

@neongamewave:

i would like you to reference some feats for the master emerald, seeing how you put him above LT, he has to have power levels that dwarfs multiversal beings. Keep in mind, LT is not simply a multiversal entity, he can be considered a multi-multiversal entity, or as the handbook puts it - megaversal.

also, lucifer wasn't fighting michael in lucifer #13, it was a controlled detonation, and we see the demiurgic power explode at ground zero where lucifer was standing, only after that did he manipulate the energy. Another thing is that lucifer isn't just multiversal max, his power was able to reach out to yahweh's multiverse while being present in his own, though this is kind of contradictory to the fact that lucifer had to get the letter of passage to open the portal into the void.

and i do agree with jackknight's interpretation of the feat.

let's use a zone synonym to make it more clear: multiverse zones - multiverse areas.

I am well aware of the Living Tribunal`s power however it doesn`t change the fact that Enerjak also can be considered to be at those very same levels of power. Mongul alone who was harnessing and channeling the same energy source was able to grasp as well as crush multiverses, Enerjak has greater control and more Chaos Emeralds to use, he was only harmed by the same power which Sonic drew from basically the Master Emerald.

Lucifer actually did confront Michael even if you were not to consider it to be an actual fight or battle it was a confrontation of serious measures nonetheless, there is a good chance that Lucifer actually manipulated the energy during the explosion due to being able to manipulate matter around him and there is no concrete evidence that provides the facts of Lucifer being omniversal or megaversal he is only multiversal with a few tricks of his own due to being one of the first creations by the Presence, also I`m pretty sure Enerjak would rise up above him in power.

I disagree.

That doesn`t actually confirm it as fact it rather solidifies your opinion as the interpretation while the term is used in a different context as shown when Ultra Knuckles/Super Knuckles and Ultra/Super Sonic battled one another causing all of space and time to collapse in all realty due to them colliding with great force also those two are still far inferior to Enerjak who he himself is also more powerful than Mongul regardless if they were just a multiverse or restricted zone it wouldn`t change the fact that Enerjak would be able to accomplish more and I also read the comic as well as explained the scans multiple times before.

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#28  Edited By rolldestroyer

@neongamewave said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@neongamewave:

i would like you to reference some feats for the master emerald, seeing how you put him above LT, he has to have power levels that dwarfs multiversal beings. Keep in mind, LT is not simply a multiversal entity, he can be considered a multi-multiversal entity, or as the handbook puts it - megaversal.

also, lucifer wasn't fighting michael in lucifer #13, it was a controlled detonation, and we see the demiurgic power explode at ground zero where lucifer was standing, only after that did he manipulate the energy. Another thing is that lucifer isn't just multiversal max, his power was able to reach out to yahweh's multiverse while being present in his own, though this is kind of contradictory to the fact that lucifer had to get the letter of passage to open the portal into the void.

and i do agree with jackknight's interpretation of the feat.

let's use a zone synonym to make it more clear: multiverse zones - multiverse areas.

I am well aware of the Living Tribunal`s power however it doesn`t change the fact that Enerjak also can be considered to be at those very same levels of power. Mongul alone who was harnessing and channeling the same energy source was able to grasp as well as crush multiverses, Enerjak has greater control and more Chaos Emeralds to use, he was only harmed by the same power which Sonic drew from basically the Master Emerald.

Lucifer actually did confront Michael even if you were not to consider it to be an actual fight or battle it was a confrontation of serious measures nonetheless, there is a good chance that Lucifer actually manipulated the energy during the explosion due to being able to manipulate matter around him and there is no concrete evidence that provides the facts of Lucifer being omniversal or megaversal he is only multiversal with a few tricks of his own due to being one of the first creations by the Presence, also I`m pretty sure Enerjak would rise up above him in power.

I disagree.

That doesn`t actually confirm it as fact it rather solidifies your opinion as the interpretation while the term is used in a different context as shown when Ultra Knuckles/Super Knuckles and Ultra/Super Sonic battled one another causing all of space and time to collapse in all realty due to them colliding with great force also those two are still far inferior to Enerjak who he himself is also more powerful than Mongul regardless if they were just a multiverse or restricted zone it wouldn`t change the fact that Enerjak would be able to accomplish more and I also read the comic as well as explained the scans multiple times before.

all of time and space doesn't necessary refer to multiverses at all. Marvel has an omniverse, yet dozens of characters were stated to be a threat to all creation/space-time, does this mean all of them are omniversal threats? no.

regarding lucifer and michael, that's not what happened, here are the scans from lucifer #13:

(read right to left)

i never said lucifer is omniversal, however there is on panel proof that his scope of power is more than multiversal, Lucifer #16:

^gave elaine's adoptive father a heart attack while being present in his own multiverse, here's the proof that he was in fact in another multiverse (which is his own).

No Caption Provided

the male (which lucifer created) references lucifer as the maker, im just giving you one scan for proof, while the whole issue makes it pretty clear that he was in his own multiverse, if this isn't enough for you, i can post the whole issue to check it for yourself (note that this was a universe initially, it was retconned in lucifer: nirvana to being a multiverse)

anyways, regarding LT, he also fashioned the twin brothers who are guardians of a megaverse (see the 2nd paragraph after the note) this is his 2006 bio, you'll have to forgive me that i didn't edit it, kind of lazy to do it

No Caption Provided

though the on panel retcon (of dc vs marvel crossover) happened in a non canon comic, it was in adventures of x-men #12, i dont find it much relevant to bring it up but here it is anyways:

those 2 brothers LT is holding are megaversal entities. admittedly though, he isn't holding 2 whole megaverses (because i saw some people actually say that LT held 2 megaverses in other threads which is false) that's supported by the fact that this whole issue takes place in an alternate reality which is confirmed by the watcher.

but it doesn't take away from the fact that LT is more powerful than 2 megaversal entities (he's the one who assigned their role in the first place, i could also post scans for this which was revealed at the end of the issue if you want)

i still disagree on your interpretation of the feat but even that interpretation doesn't compare to this.

Edit: also you gotta consider the feat killemall just stated for the IG, so to my (very limited) knowledge on mogul, he shouldn't be more powerful than the IG much less LT.

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@neongamewave said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@neongamewave:

i would like you to reference some feats for the master emerald, seeing how you put him above LT, he has to have power levels that dwarfs multiversal beings. Keep in mind, LT is not simply a multiversal entity, he can be considered a multi-multiversal entity, or as the handbook puts it - megaversal.

also, lucifer wasn't fighting michael in lucifer #13, it was a controlled detonation, and we see the demiurgic power explode at ground zero where lucifer was standing, only after that did he manipulate the energy. Another thing is that lucifer isn't just multiversal max, his power was able to reach out to yahweh's multiverse while being present in his own, though this is kind of contradictory to the fact that lucifer had to get the letter of passage to open the portal into the void.

and i do agree with jackknight's interpretation of the feat.

let's use a zone synonym to make it more clear: multiverse zones - multiverse areas.

I am well aware of the Living Tribunal`s power however it doesn`t change the fact that Enerjak also can be considered to be at those very same levels of power. Mongul alone who was harnessing and channeling the same energy source was able to grasp as well as crush multiverses, Enerjak has greater control and more Chaos Emeralds to use, he was only harmed by the same power which Sonic drew from basically the Master Emerald.

Lucifer actually did confront Michael even if you were not to consider it to be an actual fight or battle it was a confrontation of serious measures nonetheless, there is a good chance that Lucifer actually manipulated the energy during the explosion due to being able to manipulate matter around him and there is no concrete evidence that provides the facts of Lucifer being omniversal or megaversal he is only multiversal with a few tricks of his own due to being one of the first creations by the Presence, also I`m pretty sure Enerjak would rise up above him in power.

I disagree.

That doesn`t actually confirm it as fact it rather solidifies your opinion as the interpretation while the term is used in a different context as shown when Ultra Knuckles/Super Knuckles and Ultra/Super Sonic battled one another causing all of space and time to collapse in all realty due to them colliding with great force also those two are still far inferior to Enerjak who he himself is also more powerful than Mongul regardless if they were just a multiverse or restricted zone it wouldn`t change the fact that Enerjak would be able to accomplish more and I also read the comic as well as explained the scans multiple times before.

all of time and space doesn't necessary refer to multiverses at all. Marvel has an omniverse, yet dozens of characters were stated to be a threat to all creation/space-time, does this mean all of them are omniversal threats? no.

regarding lucifer and michael, that's not what happened, here are the scans from lucifer #13:

(read right to left)

i never said lucifer is omniversal, however there is on panel proof that his scope of power is more than multiversal, Lucifer #16:

^gave elaine's adoptive father a heart attack while being present in his own multiverse, here's the proof that he was in fact in another multiverse (which is his own).

No Caption Provided

the male (which lucifer created) references lucifer as the maker, im just giving you one scan for proof, while the whole issue makes it pretty clear that he was in his own multiverse, if this isn't enough for you, i can post the whole issue to check it for yourself (note that this was a universe initially, it was retconned in lucifer: nirvana to being a multiverse)

anyways, regarding LT, he also fashioned the twin brothers who are guardians of a megaverse (see the 2nd paragraph after the note) this is his 2006 bio, you'll have to forgive me that i didn't edit it, kind of lazy to do it

No Caption Provided

though the on panel retcon (of dc vs marvel crossover) happened in a non canon comic, it was in adventures of x-men #12, i dont find it much relevant to bring it up but here it is anyways:

those 2 brothers LT is holding are megaversal entities. admittedly though, he isn't holding 2 whole megaverses (because i saw some people actually say that LT held 2 megaverses in other threads which is false) that's supported by the fact that this whole issue takes place in an alternate reality which is confirmed by the watcher.

but it doesn't take away from the fact that LT is more powerful than 2 megaversal entities (he's the one who assigned their role in the first place, i could also post scans for this which was revealed at the end of the issue if you want)

i still disagree on your interpretation of the feat but even that interpretation doesn't compare to this.

Edit: also you gotta consider the feat killemall just stated for the IG, so to my (very limited) knowledge on mogul, he shouldn't be more powerful than the IG much less LT.

This! Exactly This!

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Alakemega123

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Enerjak

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Lucifer

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skyroid

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@neongamewave: @alakemega123: Lucifer cannot die unless the opponent is God.

Can someone give scans of enerjak destroying Multiverseses? Or is that a claim?

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Alakemega123

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@skyroid: enerjak didn't destroy multiverses. mammoth mogul was holding the multiverse in his hand with a portion of enerjak's power.

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@alakemega123: Then why are ppl exaggerating it by saying he destroyed Multiverse(s)?

Anyone Lucifer stomps

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#36  Edited By mysticmedivh

@skyroid said:

@alakemega123: Then why are ppl exaggerating it by saying he destroyed Multiverse(s)?

Anyone Lucifer stomps

The opponent here is Enerjak. I think what he's saying is that someone else with merely a portion of Enerjak's power crushed multiple multiverses in the palm of his hand.

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Alakemega123

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@skyroid said:

@alakemega123: Then why are ppl exaggerating it by saying he destroyed Multiverse(s)?

Anyone Lucifer stomps

The opponent here is Enerjak. I think what he's saying is that someone else with merely a portion of Enerja's power crushed multiple multiverses in the palm of his hand.

correct

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Batking200

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Lucy.

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mysticmedivh

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#39  Edited By mysticmedivh

@mysticmedivh said:
@skyroid said:

@alakemega123: Then why are ppl exaggerating it by saying he destroyed Multiverse(s)?

Anyone Lucifer stomps

The opponent here is Enerjak. I think what he's saying is that someone else with merely a portion of Enerja's power crushed multiple multiverses in the palm of his hand.

correct

Well then.

Lucifer probably loses.

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Lucifer.

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dawnone

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lucifer still.

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deactivated-5a853424245e3

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Keeping in mind what @tparks said in this thread on post #32, Lucifer blinks their universe out of existence.

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reach231

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Lucifer will laugh away while he casually defeats enerjack.

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za0068

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Both are beyond multiversal

Enerjak by scaling.

lucifer by feats

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SmokerNaruto

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Lucy easily

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azgsawgazgagwaq

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Enerjak decimates Lucifer Morningstar, Mammoth was destroying Trillions of multiverses casually while using part of Enerjak powers, imagine what Enerjak can do when he use 100% of his powers all of DC multiverse would cease to exist.

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Madrus17

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Enerjack one shots

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Uazghzsaf

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Enerjak destroys 100% of the DC multiverse, Nobody in DC can defeat Enerjak.