Enel vs fire fist ace

vs

call outs @mysticmedivh@leo-343@full123 @

the one who actually knows to use haki wins

Can they harm each other? Neither of them can use armament Haki IIRC, so would it become a stamina battle? (Ace would win that)

@leo-343: Well wouldn't Ace win the battle in the long run? He was able to beat Jinbe after a ten day fight (and he must have had Haki) so it wouldn't be too much of a long shot to assume that he could outlast Enel

I had a feeling ace was more powerful i think the reason the killed him off is he would have been pirate king instead of luffy if he had survived.

@leo-343: I really doubt Ace became the 2nd Commander of the WB Pirates without Haki. Meanwhile, Enel doesn't know how to use Haki. Eventually, Enel would be defeated. I don't think he has the stamina to keep dodging Ace's Haki punches for 5 straight days, but Ace certainly can last five days, or more, in the context of this fight.

@leo-343:The same can be said of Golden Lion Shiki or 3 of the 4 Yonkos. Common sense would allow most people to assume that a Vice Admiral level threat (or possibly even an Admiral level threat) has Haki. Jozu could hit Kuzan with Haki, why wouldn't Ace, who is one level above him, have Haki? And he could hit Smoker, I think.

Oh, and speaking of Kuzan, I completely missed the panel where it is said he joined the Blackbeard Pirates. My reading comprehension is getting bad, it seems.

@full123: Ace is no way 1 lvl above Jozu, I highly doubt he's even on his lvl, no idea where did you get this from.

Anyoway on topic: Neither have confirimed CoA so it should be a stalemate. However if we ignore their intangibility I would put my money on Enel, he's faster, has good observation haki and most of his attacks are more powerfull, Ace was strong but he havent had any impressive showings except Entei.

Doesn't Enel have Haki ?

iirc it was never implied that Ace has haki , I'm going with Enel.

@cubex: Ace is 2nd Commander of WB Pirates, Jozu is third. Their. Why would you doubt he's on Jozu's level?

Though I might agree with you on the second thing, but seeing as how fast OP low-top tiers are getting, it may be entirely possible for Ace to be faster than lightning.

I believe that since WB intended Ace to become the Pirate King, it would be foolish for him to not have been taught Haki by somebody in the crew. But yes, I agree that his fighting style is mainly Logia-based, which is pretty bad.

@leo-343: On your point of him not using Armament when fighting Logias, well, with the Logias he fought, he didn't really need to. Against Smoker, his fire could burn Smoker's smoke. Against Kuzan, again, Kuzan's fruit was weak against fire. Against Blackbeard, Blackbeard isn't really the traditional Logia, so Ace's fire attacks hurt him.

@full123: If he had Busoshoku Haki, why would he say that fighting Smoker would be pointless? Why did he opt to use fire attacks instead of just hitting him?

Ace eventually outlasts him.

@juiceboks: Like said earlier, he's a person who depends on his fruit. He said "with our abilities" after talking about fire and smoke, which indicates that he couldn't fight Smoker with FIRE. And really, a fight against their Devil Fruits would be pointless.

because haki wasn't yet defined in early one piece so its mainly due to plot why would ace charge at akinui knowing full well he can't harm him.

@dawnone: To protect Luffy and Whitebeard's name? He knew damn well he wasn't anywhere near powerful enough defeat Akainu period but that didn't stop him or anybody else from engaging the admiral.

@full123:Last I checked, Haki is an ability regardless of whether it was introduced or not. If he had Haki that would mean either what Ace said was a convenient lie, or he decided to keep Haki under the radar for no reason whatsoever. And yet for whatever odd excuse he had he decided to use fire against him.

@full123: Oda confirimed that initial numbers of divisions possesed by it's capitans doesnt determine their strength in comparison to other captains.

That means there is no confirmation who is stronger beetwen Jozu, Vista and Ace (since Marco was confirimed WB's vcie captain).

I doubt that looking at his showings, he was physically destroyed by BB, absolutely stomped by Akainu and he only stalemated Jinbei who is just M3/midVice lvl. He improved since then by still, I doubt he's any close to admiral lvl like rest of WB's TOPs are.

Btw he was captain of second division only because it's former captain was murdered by Teach.

1. Here:

D: About the Whitebeard Pirates, if there are pirates from the "Whitebeard ally groups", is there a possibility of one of them becoming a commander of the real Whitebeard Pirates itself? Or are the commanders all from the real Whitebeard Pirates from the beginning? P.N. amanuts

O: Ok, I'll explain a little about the Whitebeard Pirates. First, captain Whitebeard and the 16 commanders. All 16 commanders, despite numbers and ages have the same rank. All the same. Whitebeard Pirates are just split in 16 groups and the division number does not indicate strength.

-SBS 59

2. You're right I forgot about that, still doesnt really matter, captain's spot was free and Ace was most likely the strongest pirate in a crew excluding other captains.

i don't think haki was established during early one piece but i do agree though there's no evidence ace has haki

@leo-343: Yami Yami no Mi is actually logia, but I see your point.

@cubex: He's also Paramecia with Whitebeard's powers.

@cubex: It might as well be a paramecia considering it doesn't offer him the same resistance/immunity to physical attacks as literally every other logia fruit.

Probably Enel. I saw Cross Epoch and thought he was fairly powerful, especially going up and tanking lots of SSJ Goku's attacks (save for the Spinning Kamehameha with Luffy). But, that's just me going off of not knowing who Ace is or what he can do.

@leo-343: I know they're not. I used that as an example of what I know about Enel. Whether it's true he can match SSJ Goku is just a theory based on what I saw. If he uses the same abilities, that won't change anything?

Ace wins. He actually has Haki

It was. The "Mantra" they were using back then was Observation Haki. And while evidence hasn't been shown that Ace has Haki I'm willing to go with the notion he had it because he was a Whitebeard commander and has been to the new world. In the New World even vice admiral and below marines use Haki. It's not too farfetched to believe he has Haki

Going with Ace cuz fire is the stronger element

In a conventional battle this can only result in stalemate.

stalemate

Look at this page

Ace hits Blackbeard who claimed to have eaten a Logia devil fruit with a fire attack. Ace is surprised that he could not evade his attack. This confirms that Logia devil fruits cannot be harmed by fire, unless that fire is a superior element or a natural weakness. This is further backed up by the following page

Blackbeard says that unlike other Logias, he can't evade bullets, blades, punches, fire and thunder. He implies that other Logias could evade that type of attacks.

So this fight ends on a stalemate since Enel can't be harmed by fire, Ace can't be harmed by lightning and both of them are not confirmed to have armament haki.

stalesmates

Enel burns Ace with a lightning bolt. lightning is hotter than lava. Enel wins

Stalemate or Ace. Going by logic Ace should have buoshoku haki, but has no feats with it.

Ace.

For those saying Ace.

How exactly does he win if doesn't have Haki? Enel has shown to be immune to the burn bazooka used by the Sandians. While on the other hand Ace has shown to be burned by magma fruit. Its a fact that lightning bolts are hotter than magma. That would mean Ace could possibly be burned by lightning bolts. There is more evidence to support that Ace did not have Haki than there is to support that he did. Without that Ace simply cant win. Enel wins...

How ?

He has superior fighting skills and armament haki, which Enel doesn't have. Armament haki just wasn't shown during the time, so that's why he hasn't shown it.

@New_World_Order: If he didn't show it, how can you argue he has it? I could, by that logic, assume Enel had it, and called it Mantra.

As others have stated, Enel takes it due to elemental superiority. Fire loses to magma. Lightning is hotter than magma. Ergo, Lightning beats fire. Enel beats Ace.

@scouterv: It's simply due to the fact that how can you be a top commander in a Yonko's crew and not know haki. Haki wasn't shown back then, but this is more of a personal opinion oppose to fact.

@New_World_Order said:

What reason would a Logia user have to go h2h? in most cases there isnt a need to know Haki.