Enel vs Doflamingo

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#51 Edited by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio
@leo-343 said:

Enel's Observation Haki is going to let him deal with Doflamingo's speed when he was matched in speed by pre gears Luffy and tagged multiple times. Seems legit.

It's like saying I can deal with the Flash's speed with my precog even though Spider-Man can match me.

It a make a no sense.

Enel's haki was BYPASSED By Luffy's attacks bouncing off the wall and thus catching him by SURPRISE as he could no longer read his moves. He then took advantage of that moment to hit Enel again while he was on the ground. Pre gears Luffy was not a match for Enel's Haki or his speed. Which is why he had to use that tactic in the first place. Luffy found a way to get around ENEL's haki with his unique Devil Fruit ability for a brief moment. Your argument only appeals to casuals and you'll once again side step this fact.

You're making these broad statements out of context of the fight. " Luffy tagged him multiple times" Thats not what really happened.I wouldm understand you better if Luffy Blitzed ENEL through his haki but he didnt.

Secondly Enel will not have to fight Doflamingo the same way he did Luffy. With everybody else he fought he one shotted them with his lightning. He didnt even attempt to use h2h. Just look at how he started the fight with luffy... an El thor.

Here is why he wins

Enel wont be caught be surprise due to basic knowledge of Doffy's abliity + Enel's haki.

Enel's lightning is well...lightning so doffy wont be able to dodge.

Enel wont have to go h2h he can simply use his travel speed and range to attack. ( something he couldnt do on Luffy by had on skypeia)

Its simple. Haki allows you to predict someone's moves before they make them. I dont see how doffy's speed will allow him to catch lightning. Enel wins.

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#52 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:

Enel's haki was BYPASSED By Luffy's attacks bouncing off the wall and thus catching him by SURPRISE as he could no longer read his moves. He then took advantage of that moment to hit Enel again while he was on the ground.Pre gears Luffy was not a match for Enel's Haki or his speed. Which is why he had to use that tactic in the first place. Luffy found a way to get around ENEL's haki with his unique Devil Fruit ability for a brief moment. Your argument only appeals to casuals and you'll once again side step this fact.

You're making these broad statements out of context of the fight. " Luffy tagged him multiple times" Thats not what really happened.I wouldm understand you better if Luffy Blitzed ENEL through his haki but he didnt.

What?, did you ignore my links? What's Luffy doing here then and here and here? He's tagging him, matching his combat speed and straight up blitzing him respectively 'Must evade' couldn't evade who cares if his Haki was switched off in this instance, his raw speed is lesser than Luffy's look at the run up Luffy had...but Enel couldn't dodge and his Haki sure as hell wasn't switched off in the first and second links yet he got tagged and matched. Even if he didn't blitz, he's obviously fast enough to keep up with Enel. In fact forget the 'blitz' I don't need it, after I have to keep reminding myself this is pre-gears Luffy which makes this thread all the more hilarious, he matched him in speed and tagged him multiple times.

It's like you're pretending Enel outclassed Luffy in speed for the whole fight when using Observation Haki when he clearly didn't.

Hey do you wanna know what's funny, even if you ignore feats and pretend pre gears Luffy wasn't a match for Enel's speed, post-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy wasn't a match for Doflamingo's speed overall. You aren't getting anywhere with your 'argument.'

And again with the golden ball, just answer it-

Yet it wasn't the first time he got tagged. He turned into a giant...so what? Does that mean he couldn't pseudo teleport as lightning anymore? Did his reactions and thought processes that would have enabled him to pseudo teleport take a hike because he got fat?

Secondly Enel will not have to fight Doflamingo the same way he did Luffy. With everybody else he fought he one shotted them with his lightning. He didnt even attempt to use h2h. Just look at how he started the fight with luffy... an El thor.

Here is why he loses:

He gets blitzed. He had his combat speed matched by a pre gears Luffy therefore he can't perceive Doflamingo in motion yet alone react to him. With knowledge the first thing Doflamingo is going to do is blitz his head off and there isn't a damn thing Enel can do about it.

To make matters worse Doflamingo has Observation Haki, so not only does he have a ridiculous combat speed advantage, he too can also predict attacks, oh poor Enel.

Enel wont be caught be surprise due to basic knowledge of Doffy's abliity + Enel's haki.

Enel's lightning is well...lightning so doffy wont be able to dodge.

Enel wont have to go h2h he can simply use his travel speed and range to attack. ( something he couldnt do on Luffy by had on skypeia)

Its simple. Haki allows you to predict someone's moves before they make them. I dont see how doffy's speed will allow him to catch lightning. Enel wins.

So what you're saying is...

@goldroger If he can dodge SOME attacks from Sky Island Luffy he can dodge attacks from Doflamingo. Derp.

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#53 Posted by ThanosPimphand (716 posts) - - Show Bio

Doff one shots

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#55 Edited by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: Let me simplify this before it gets out of hand.

You think Enel loses because you believe Enel would be speed Blitzed, even through his Mantra. You support that idea because Luffy was able to "tag" Enel during their bout. Luffy, being no where near the speed of Doffy makes it impossible for you to believe Enel has a chance.

I understand your argument and I will admit this. Luffy has the ability to hit Enel while Enel is not using his Mantra. However while Enel IS using his Mantra Luffy could not tag him. If Luffy was able to keep up with Enel through his haki why would he need to bounce punches off the wall? That doesn't make sense. The way Observation haki works is that the better you're with it the faster the attack you can react to. Well, Enel having the best observation haki feats in one piece. Its not a stretch to assume USING HIS HAKI that he can react to Doflamingo.) That is why I disagree with your idea of him Blitzing Enel. Enel & Satori have shown that if you break your concentration you lose your Mantra. whether or not Enel will lose his mantra during the fight is up for debate.

Offensively, if counter shock works on Doffy, than an el thor will. simple as that. Enel is electricity, Doffy isnt immune to it nor is he faster than it. Enel uses his basic knowledge + HAKI + Devil Fruit to keep his distance and spam lightning attacks until doffy goes down. During his fight with Luffy he had zero Knowledge + Bypassed Haki + Nullifed Devil fruitpower thats why he beats Doffy while he loses to Pre gears Luffy.

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#56 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird:

You think Enel loses because you believe Enel would be speed Blitzed, even through his Mantra. You support that idea because Luffy was able to "tag" Enel during their bout. Luffy, being no where near the speed of Doffy makes it impossible for you to believe Enel has a chance.

Yup, that about sums it up.

I understand your argument and I will admit this. Luffy has the ability to hit Enel while Enel is not using his Mantra. However while Enel IS using his Mantra Luffy could not tag him.

Apart from here... and the golden ball. Here he managed to react to Enel even when the latter launched a surprise attack and look here he dodges and counters and Enel doesn't have his Haki deactivated, come on a child can see they have similar combat speed. Every single link I'm showing gives clear evidence that Enel's combat and pre gears Luffy's combat speed is comparable even when Enel uses his Haki.

Do not ignore these links. Take them in deep into your soul and accept them.

If Luffy was able to keep up with Enel through his haki why would he need to bounce punches off the wall? That doesn't make sense.

But he did keep up with him... here. Why do I get the feeling you're pretending my links don't exist.

He needed to bounce his attacks off the wall to tag him more consistently and deal a lot of damage, because overall he was falling behind in speed however his combat speed shown in the link was enough for him to keep up.

The way Observation haki works is that the better you're with it the faster the attack you can react to. Well, Enel having the best observation haki feats in one piece. Its not a stretch to assume USING HIS HAKI that he can react to Doflamingo.)

Thanks for the crash course in Haki. Unfortunately for Enel it really is a stretch to assume he can use his Haki to react to Doflamingo. The way you're using Haki it's as if it's some NLF that allows Enel to react to people who utterly eclipse him in combat speed.

Enel when using Haki still got tagged more than once by pre-gears Luffy and had his combat speed matched, which means his thought processes and reactions aren't good enough to perceive Doflamingo in motion and he gets his head blitzed off.

Offensively, if counter shock works on Doffy, than an el thor will. simple as that. Enel is electricity, Doffy isnt immune to it nor is he faster than it. Enel uses his basic knowledge + HAKI + Devil Fruit to keep his distance and spam lightning attacks until doffy goes down. During his fight with Luffy he had zero Knowledge + Bypassed Haki + Nullifed Devil fruitpower thats why he beats Doffy while he loses to Pre gears Luffy.

Eh, see above. Enel gets blitzed, his feats while using Haki are nowhere near good enough to suggest he can react to Doflamingo. The sad thing is you still wouldn't even have a case if Luffy didn't ever tag him when he was using Haki. That just proves Enel is faster than Pre-gears Luffy...good for him, Doflamingo is faster than post-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy. You'd then have to do some hardcore speculation for just how fast Enel would be. But lucky for you you don't have to put yourself through that.

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#57 Edited by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: If Luffy could blitz Enel through his haki why did he need to bounce attacks off the wall? answer that very simple question. I beg you.

Nobody ignored your GIFs . I said Luffy could tag enel with his Haki off. I also said Enel can lose his mantra if he doesn't concentrate. Luffy was able to surprise attack enel because he didn't even know what it was

ENEL needs all three of these things to beat Doffy. If he loses one he loses.

He needs his haki because his reaction speed without it will get him one shotted.

He needs basic knowledge or he'll will get surprised attacked like what happened with luffy and get his mantra broken.

He needs his devil fruit for offense and travel speed defense.

HAKI + BASIC KNOWEDGE + DEVIL FRUIT = Enel win

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#58 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:

@leo-343: If Luffy could blitz Enel through his haki why did need to bounce attacks off the wall? answer that very simple question.

I...already did.

He needed to bounce his attacks off the wall to tag him more consistently and deal a lot of damage, because overall he was falling behind in speed however his combat speed shown in the link was enough for him to keep up.

Furthermore I didn't even use the word blitz in my last post. I gave clear evidence Luffy could match his combat speed, with the surprise attack, with the stamp, with the counter kick, with the dodging of the pronged spear, the golden ball.

Look at the damn links man the links! It's like you're in denial.

Nobody ignore youre GIFs . i said Luffy could tag enel with his Haki off.

Do i have to create a flow chart for you?

In...every single link I just posted Enel still had his Haki and you know it so you don't have to make things up just because you're losing an argument, what with your one sentence responses I've already answered xD

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#59 Edited by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio
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#60 Edited by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343:

"He needed to bounce his attacks off the wall to tag him more consistently and deal a lot of damage, because overall he was falling behind in speed however his combat speed shown in the link was enough for him to keep up."

That makes zero sense, if luffy could tag Enel through his haki he wouldn't need to go around it. The fact that you deny that just proves how far youre reaching.

"Furthermore I didn't even use the word blitz in my last post. I gave clear evidence Luffy could match his combat speed, with the surprise attack, with the stamp, with the counter kick, with the dodging of the pronged spear, the golden ball."

You used the word blitz 10 times and now youre dropping it? Gee i wonder why..maybe because you realized you were wrong. dodging the spear for an example you forgot that the sandian little girl( who has haki) told luffy where enel was before his attack.

Look at the damn links man the links! It's like you're in denial.

Nobody ignore youre GIFs . i said Luffy could tag enel with his Haki off.

Do i have to create a flow chart for you?

In...every single link I just posted Enel still had his Haki and you know it so you don't have to make things up just because you're losing an argument, what with your one sentence responses I've already answered

No he didnt. You know why? Because luffy has to go around Enel's haki to tag him which why he punched the damn wall.

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#61 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

Urgh why is this thread still going on.

Enel got beaten by Luffy and co.

Doffy beat Luffy and Law at the same time.

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#62 Edited by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio
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#63 Posted by Jiraiya_sageofoil (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys: lol your post made no sense because Duffy and his crew all lost. I think Duffy will blitze enel but your reasoning was terrible

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#64 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird:

That makes zero sense, if luffy could tag Enel through his haki he wouldn't need to go around it.

What's he doing here then? He's tagging him, and here? Countering and kicking him and here? Matching his combat speed. Stop pretending to be blind.

No he didnt. You know why? Because luffy has to go around Enel's haki to tag him which why he punched the damn wall.

Go ahead, deny straight up once again the links I just posted for the 1000th time. Stop dodging them and pretending they don't exist, in those links I posted yet again Enel didn't have his Haki bypassed yet Luffy is still able to keep up and tag him.

Look at the damn links. Wow I can't wait to see another BS reason from you, probably some crap about how his Haki wasn't working right? I'm serious, I'm genuinely curious to see how you'll dodge those links, impress me.

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#65 Posted by ShinKartz (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Enel relies way too much on his intangibility and has (or at least had back then) no knowledge of the Armament Haki. Furthermore his physical durability is a complete joke - an attack of someone at least as strong as gear 2/3 pre-ts Luffy can pretty much oneshot him. Add to this the fact he boasts about how untouchable he is and allows people to hit him and you got yourself a recipe for a disaster.

He also lacks the firepower to put DD down (though Maxim powered Raigou (or whatever it was called), would do it just nicely, but I don't see Maxim here). Doflamingo is superior to post-ts Luffy with gear 2 and 3 and also kept up and outlasted gear 4, he simply has too much going for him.

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#66 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

Enel relies way too much on his intangibility and has (or at least had back then) no knowledge of the Armament Haki. Furthermore his physical durability is a complete joke - an attack of someone at least as strong as gear 2/3 pre-ts Luffy can pretty much oneshot him. Add to this the fact he boasts about how untouchable he is and allows people to hit him and you got yourself a recipe for a disaster.

He also lacks the firepower to put DD down (though Maxim powered Raigou (or whatever it was called), would do it just nicely, but I don't see Maxim here). Doflamingo is superior to post-ts Luffy with gear 2 and 3 and also kept up and outlasted gear 4, he simply has too much going for him.

Why would he boast about being intangible if he has basic knowledge on doffy

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#67 Edited by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343:

"What's he doing here then? He's tagging him, and here? Countering and kicking him and here? Matching his combat speed. Stop pretending to be blind."

Let me address your links once and for all. Hopefully you will be man enough to concede afterward but hey I doubt it.

Link#1

Luffy hits Enel with a Gum Gum Axe. This can be explained 2 ways . its either:

A. Luffy manages to Blitz Enel through his Haki.

or

B. Enel isn't using his Haki and thus gets tagged.

Here is why I choose option B.

Fact#1 Luffy & Nami both admit that Luffy cannot hit Enel when he is using his mantra. Those are words directly from Luffy's mouth and directly contradict option A. If you deny this fact you're dead wrong.

Fact#2 Luffy had to bounce his attacks off the wall in order to hit Enel while he was using his haki.

Fact#3 There are plenty of examples of Luffy using similar attacks and not being able to hit him

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Fact #4 The only other times luffy has been able to hit him, its been glaringly obvious that Enel wasn't using his haki. i.e

When he kicked enel in the stomach at the start, When he bounced his attacks off the wall, the assault on Enel immediately after the off the wall attack.

Based on those facts I've come to the conclusion that Enel was not using his Haki. on the other hand for you to prove that option A is true will require heavy speculation. I've simply stuck with facts those pesky details that your memory seems to be foggy on.

Link#2

Not really sure what point you were trying to make here. That Enel can react to Luffy's attack? as a matter of fact...Why would h2h combat even be relevant in a fight with Doffy if Enel wont go h2h? Enel isnt going to try to spear Doffy. What about Enel's lightning? You haven't talking much about how Doffy will deal with that.

Link#3

I admitted that luffy can tag enel when he doesn't use his Haki. Luffy wasnt tagging enel in that Link luffy was dodging enel's spears. again, that pretty irrelvent considering ENEL WILL USE HIS LIGHTNING ON DOFFY AND NOT TRY TO SPEAR HIM.

How is that for responding to your damn links.

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#68 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@jiraiya_sageofoil:

Yeah Doffy and his crew lost the overall war.

But the battle that determined the strengths between Doffy, Luffy and Law was won by Doffy.

Doffy created a bird cage, fought Law nearly killed him and then fought luffy straight after and Luffy did not have the stamina to finish him off. If it weren't for the from literally the entire town throwing their feet at Doffy so that Luffy can recover from his literal paralysed stated, he would have died. Heck, if Doffy woudld have been given the same courtesy of healing that Luffy was given, it could be argued that he could have won round 2. But no.

So when we are creating a scenario that indicates the strength of a character. Will we take into account all other elements of the war that does not determine the strength of a character? No.

Doffy creates birdcage. Fights Luffy and Law at the same time and straight up beats them despite all their efforts. If this were a fight with normal conditions.

Law and Luffy vs Doflamingo. They would lose because they don't have the villagers to save their asses and as "impressive" Luffy's gear 4 is. An all out G4 didn't have the stamina to get Doffy down. He needs to have 2 tries of g4s.

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#69 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird: You know, you really did impress me, well done.

probably some crap about how his Haki wasn't working right?

I was right.

Why would h2h combat even be relevant in a fight with Doffy if Enel wont go h2h?

Well gee I dunno umm maybe mister it's because h2h shows what a character can react to and what they can perceive. Enel cannot react to Doflamingo.

But just to show you just how bad your argument is, the funny thing is that it doesn't matter. Let's go with your mind set, Enel is faster than Luffy. That's fine, but...so what? Based on the spear gif, Luffy isn't far behind in combat speed I'm sure you'll admit that much.

So what do we have here, Enel is slightly faster than pre gears Luffy, meaning his perceptions and reactions are no where near Doflamingo who is faster than post-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy so he blitzes Enel's head off.

It doesn't matter, it's a catch 22 for you.

Either Luffy and Enel are comparable in combat speed therefore Doflamingo blitzes his head off, or Enel is faster but that doesn't matter since this is pre gears Luffy and Doflamingo is faster than post-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy so he still blitzes Enel's head off.

Get it?

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#70 Posted by Mije_101 (1549 posts) - - Show Bio

Doflamingo stomps. This fight isn't even close.

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#71 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: Its not " some crap" its called facts, dude. Everything i said in response to your link 1 was fact. Which is why you side stepped it all together. You didn't even attempt a rebuttal lol. nice job. Your argument is getting smaller and smaller.

"Well gee I dunno umm maybe mister it's because h2h shows what a character can react to and what they can perceive. Enel cannot react to Doflamingo."

With Mantra he can. Thats what I've been saying this entire time. ENEL NEEDS BASIC KNOWLEDGE + HAKI + DEVIL FRUIT to win. Enel's reaction speed sucks without Mantra, with it he can dodge doffy because he can dodge with travel speed as he did with Luffy.

"But just to show you just how bad your argument is, the funny thing is that it doesn't matter. Let's go with your mind set, Enel is faster than Luffy. That's fine, but...so what? Based on the spear gif, Luffy isn't far behind in combat speed I'm sure you'll admit that much."

HERE IS WHY spear attacks are irrelevant ENEL will do this... USE his lightning.

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So what do we have here, Enel is slightly faster than pre gears Luffy, meaning his perceptions and reactions are no where near Doflamingo who is faster than post-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy so he blitzes Enel's head off.

Ive addressed this

It doesn't matter, it's a catch 22 for you.

Either Luffy and Enel are comparable in combat speed therefore Doflamingo blitzes his head off, or Enel is faster but that doesn't matter since this is pre gears Luffy and Doflamingo is faster than post-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy so he still blitzes Enel's head off.

Get it?

Why does mantra and Lightning travel speed not matter to you?

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#72 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird Let me stop you right there because this is where your argument flops badly:

With Mantra he can. Thats what I've been saying this entire time. ENEL NEEDS BASIC KNOWLEDGE + HAKI + DEVIL FRUIT to win. Enel's reaction speed sucks without Mantra, with it he can dodge doffy because he can dodge with travel speed as he did with Luffy.

So what you're saying is if Enel can perceive and react/dodge Luffy he can do the same to Doflamingo? How can't you see that this makes no sense? Are you aware of the stupid speed gap between Luffy and Doflamingo? You might as well have said, oh because this guy's precog let's him dodge Quicksilver, he can dodge a pissed off Flash. No logic there, mate. You'd have an argument if Enel did that to current Luffy, but he didn't he did it to pre gears Luffy.

Also if you want to go down this route:

B. Enel isn't using his Haki and thus gets tagged.

You have to ask yourself this: why the hell wasn't he using Haki? Did it get disrupted somehow by Luffy? If so why can't someone astronomically faster also do the same? Not that he'd need to any way.

And:

You didn't even attempt a rebuttal lol. nice job. Your argument is getting smaller and smaller.

Yeah that's rich coming from someone who gave one word sentences and complained about some crap about blitzing without attempting to respond to the rest of my argument that didn't even need the blitz route.

HERE IS WHY spear attacks are irrelevant

You really don't get it do you? If I attack someone with a spear and they manage to counter and evade, that speaks volumes about my combat speed- and please don't give some crap about Enel's Haki being off when he attacked Luffy with the spear, that is reaching since Luffy switched his brain off because Enel was using Haki- It means I can only react and move as fast as them or slightly ahead but most importantly it means if something or someone is exponentially faster that means I cannot react to them.

Read that last clause again, that is why Doflamingo blitzes Enel's head off.

Why does mantra and Lightning travel speed not matter to you?

Cuz Pre-gears Luffy.

And if your argument boils down to this logical turd:

if Enel can perceive and react/dodge Luffy he can do the same to Doflamingo

Then give up.

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#73 Edited by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy could react to Enel in his lightning form, he loses sight of Enel when he goes into the golden statue then reappears blitzes Luffy and Luffy catches his trident, this means Luffy reacts to his fastest lightning form attack after he is already moving. Now remember after that Luffy can't even see Lucci before he learns g2. This means Lucci >>> Enel in terms of speed. Doffy no doubt outclasses Lucci in speed and everything else.

Enel might have been a badass but that was a loonnnggg time ago. Doffy curbstomps.

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#74 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: Ignores facts, Creates strawman, argues in circles. Rise, wash, repeat.

Listen to what I am saying.

Because Enel has the best hands down Observation haki FEATS in one piece. Its not a stretch to assume he has the means to use it to see Dflamingos attack BEFORE he does it and will move out of the way. Because Enel can move at the speed of Lightning and Doffy cannot Enel will be able to get away.

"You have to ask yourself this: why the hell wasn't he using Haki? Did it get disrupted somehow by Luffy? If so why can't someone astronomically faster also do the same? Not that he'd need to any way."

When Enel is using his Haki He can dodge Luffy when he is not using it Luffy and Doflamingo can tag him. I dont know how or why he lost it but based on what Luffy said about not being able to hit him when he uses it. we have to assume he wasnt using it whether you want to or not. As I said, Before whether Enel will lose his haki during the fight is up for debate. All i know is when Enel does use his haki Luffy cannot touch him and nor can doflamingo because he can use his lightning to move out of the way and Doffy is not lightning speed.

"Yeah that's rich coming from someone who gave one word sentences and complained about some crap about blitzing without attempting to respond to the rest of my argument that didn't even need the blitz route."

I addressed you links, so move on.

:"You really don't get it do you? If I attack someone with a spear and they manage to counter and evade, that speaks volumes about my combat speed- and please don't give some crap about Enel's Haki being off when he attacked Luffy with the spear, that is reaching since Luffy switched his brain off because Enel was using Haki- It means I can only react and move as fast as them or slightly ahead but most importantly it means if something or someone is exponentially faster that means I cannot react to them"

Observation haki has nothing to do with h2h attack speed. thats a strawman that you threw in there and argued against. What i am saying is that h2h is irrelevant because Enel wont be using his spear. let me say it again so you understand H2H IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE ENEL WONT BE USING HIS SPEAR. H2H IS FREAKING IRRELEVANT BECAUSE ENEL WILL BE ELECTROCUTING HIM WITH RANGED ATTACKS THAT DOFFY CANNOT DODGE!!!!!

"if Enel can perceive and react/dodge Luffy he can do the same to Doflamingo."

There is a good reason why he can do both its called island level HAKI. Its called being able to predict how many people will be standing up at the end of a war before it even starts. its his ability that is so powerful its borderline telepathy. I mean dont underrate Enel because we only saw him lose a fight a man who was immune to 99% of his attacks.

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#75 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:

@leo-343: Ignores facts, Creates strawman, argues in circles. Rise, wash, repeat.

No...that's actually you.

If I can predict attacks and react to Quicksilver I can predict attacks and react to a morals off Flash. That is what you're saying, that is what you're argument is, that is the dumbest thing you've implied since this thread started.

Listen to what I am saying.

Because Enel has the best hands down Observation haki FEATS in one piece. Its not a stretch to assume he has the means to use it to see Dflamingos attack BEFORE he does it and will move out of the way. Because Enel can move at the speed of Lightning and Doffy cannot Enel will be able to get away.

His only showings of using his Haki in combat is against someone as slow as pre-gears Luffy. He doesn't have the best Haki feats in One Piece in a combat situation because once again he only fought someone as slow as pre-gears Luffy.

Yes of course it's a stretch, are you being serious? Even if Luffy gad gear 2 it would still be a stretch, I really don't think you get the speed gap in Doflamingo's favour, it is absolutely massive.

When Enel is using his Haki He can dodge Luffy when he is not using it Luffy and Doflamingo can tag him. I dont know how or why he lost it but based on what Luffy said about not being able to hit him when he uses it. we have to assume he wasnt using it whether you want to or not. As I said, Before whether Enel will lose his haki during the fight is up for debate. All i know is when Enel does use his haki Luffy cannot touch him and nor can doflamingo because he can use his lightning to move out of the way and Doffy is not lightning speed.

He doesn't need to be lightning speed, he just needs to move faster than Enel can perceive, which he can and will do. Doflamingo starts to move, Enel cannot perceive him since his reactions and his amazing Haki haven't faced someone with Doflamingo's speed and he gets his head cut off before he has time to process what just happened.

Observation haki has nothing to do with h2h attack speed. thats a strawman that you threw in there and argued against. What i am saying is that h2h is irrelevant because Enel wont be using his spear. let me say it again so you understand H2H IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE ENEL WONT BE USING HIS SPEAR. H2H IS FREAKING IRRELEVANT BECAUSE ENEL WILL BE ELECTROCUTING HIM WITH RANGED ATTACKS THAT DOFFY CANNOT DODGE!!!!!

Umm...yes it does, anything that affects your perceptions has a lot to do with h2h speed, if you know what's coming you can counter faster, if you can see the damn future you can attack more efficiently. If Enel can see the future but he still couldn't tag Luffy with his spear how does that not make his h2h speed slow? The rest of that is pointless if you can't even take that in.

The H2H itself isn't important, it's what it implies and what it implies is that Enel's perceptions aren't anywhere near good enough to react to Doflamingo.

There is a good reason why he can do both its called island level HAKI. Its called being able to predict how many people will be standing up at the end of a war before it even starts. its his ability that is so powerful its borderline telepathy. I mean dont underrate Enel because we only saw him lose a fight a man who was immune to 99% of his attacks.

Yes, and this island level Haki was used in combat on someone as slow as pre-gears Luffy, well done for Enel's telepathy.

Let me clarify; if you are saying that just because Enel can tag pre gears Luffy he can do the same to Doflamingo either stop posting or make that clear to me that that is what you're saying then I won't be wasting my time on an argument as stupid as that.

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#76 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy could react to Enel in his lightning form, he loses sight of Enel when he goes into the golden statue then reappears blitzes Luffy and Luffy catches his trident, this means Luffy reacts to his fastest lightning form attack after he is already moving. Now remember after that Luffy can't even see Lucci before he learns g2. This means Lucci >>> Enel in terms of speed. Doffy no doubt outclasses Lucci in speed and everything else.

Enel might have been a badass but that was a loonnnggg time ago. Doffy curbstomps.

Thats not what happen. Enel disappeared into the statute and the Sandian little girl told luffy that Enel was behind him Luffy turned around as Enel was still moving up the statute. Enel jumped out of the satute and Luffy Dodged the spear. Luffy dodged Enel's spear several times that does not make him faster than lightning for an example Luffy did not dodge the El thor when he had no idea he would be immune to it. Luffy is not faster than lightning then or now.

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#77 Edited by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird said:
@alphapunk said:

Luffy could react to Enel in his lightning form, he loses sight of Enel when he goes into the golden statue then reappears blitzes Luffy and Luffy catches his trident, this means Luffy reacts to his fastest lightning form attack after he is already moving. Now remember after that Luffy can't even see Lucci before he learns g2. This means Lucci >>> Enel in terms of speed. Doffy no doubt outclasses Lucci in speed and everything else.

Enel might have been a badass but that was a loonnnggg time ago. Doffy curbstomps.

Thats not what happen. Enel disappeared into the statute and the Sandian little girl told luffy that Enel was behind him Luffy turned around as Enel was still moving up the statute. Enel jumped out of the satute and Luffy Dodged the spear. Luffy dodged Enel's spear several times that does not make him faster than lightning for an example Luffy did not dodge the El thor when he had no idea he would be immune to it. Luffy is not faster than lightning then or now.

You don't think he's lightning speed even now? I will re watch the clip.

Loading Video...

At 7:08 Luffy looks behind, Enel is already charging or starting to and Luffy catches his Trident. Someone yelling that he is behind him doesn't help the actual reaction, Enel is moving while he's looking back in his lightning form, this is about the best way to prove Luffy can at least SEE lightning speed and reaction, that's all we need.

This shows he can see Enel in lightning form, so he can see lightning speed. Lucci is so fast Luffy cannot even see him putting him above Enel in speed, how much i don't care right now. Luffy matches his speed in g2. This puts him firmly over lightning, i don't see a way to deny this, he can see Enel and even react while being charged, even if he isn't lightning speed HE CAN SEE IT, not seeing Lucci and then equaling him puts him over Enel pre timeskip.

By the way this feat alone combined with Lucci puts Luffy at relativistic speeds even pre time skip, idc opinion the feats speak for themselves =P

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#78 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk: When Enel went into the wall Luffy says "He disappeared?". - Argument destroyed.

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#79 Edited by decaf_wizard (17113 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird: You say Luffy couldn't have got through Enel's Mantra without bouncing his attacks of walls? Well couldn't Doffy just turn the entire battlefield into Haki laced strings to spam unavoidable, omni-directional attacks that could just cut Enel to ribbons?

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#80 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: Damn you're hard headed.

"If I can predict attacks and react to Quicksilver I can predict attacks and react to a morals off Flash. That is what you're saying, that is what you're argument is, that is the dumbest thing you've implied since this thread started."

A strawman. If you actually paid attention to what I said and stop arguing stawman points you would do better in life. I didn't say that. I didn't say a damn thing about the flash. Do you realize that you're not responding to a word I say? Can you not see the obvious difference?

The difference between what I said and your strawman is that the Observation haki is responsible for high levels of dodging not attacking but dodging. thats not speculation its one piece fact. When using his Haki Enel effortlessly dodged Luffy's attacks.PERIOD. Here is the important part that escapes you every time and why this is nothing like flash. According to Rayleigh not me but f'ing Rayleigh. the more developed your haki is you can eventually dodge lightspeed attacks. Well who has better feats of Observation haki than Enel? nobody. Not pre gears not post gears Luffy, Not doffy, Lucci, not Lucy not anybody. That means Enel's reaction (dodging) speed while using HAKI is high. That makes perfect F'ing sense. I dont want to hear your own personal head canon about combat observation haki. its used for dodging. Enel can move out of the way of the attack using his Devil fruit's ability to move a the speed of lightning which Doffy is not.

For the last time his

Basic knowledge means he knows he can be punched by Doffy.

His Highly developed Haki means that he can react to Doffy's speed blitz

His devil fruit will allow him to dodge and take out Doffy.

Its really simple. Its not my own head canon. I am not making up Haki scaling Rayleigh said it. You're arguing agianst the damn facts of the show.

I am not saying anything else about h2h dude. You keep sidestepping how Doffy will deal with lightning attacks. Its because you know there is nothing he can do. Hwever ive responded to you blitz senario.]

ENEL WINS!!!!!!!

No Caption Provided

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#81 Edited by decaf_wizard (17113 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird: The fact you think Enel having Observation haki means that he can dodge attacks from people who are miles faster than him astounds me. Multiple people in One Piece have blitzed people though observation haki, sometimes even when they themselves did not have it. Even your statement that Enel has the best observation haki makes no sense, do you actually think that his haki is superior to somebody like Rayleigh's or that Doffy hasnt shown lightning speed??

And you still fail to remember that Doffy can just birdcage the area or turn the whole battlefield into a mass of strings, which even with Observation Haki, Enel would not be able to dodge. By your own admission, the only times Luffy was able to hit him when he was using mantra was when he was bouncing his attacks off walls, so shouldnt Doffy's awakening achive the same result?

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#82 Edited by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard said:

@enemybird: You say Luffy couldn't have got through Enel's Mantra without bouncing his attacks of walls? Well couldn't Doffy just turn the entire battlefield into Haki laced strings to spam unavoidable, omni-directional attacks that could just cut Enel to ribbons?

IF he could do that he could beat anyone. Literally anyone. The question is can he & why hasn't he?

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#83 Edited by decaf_wizard (17113 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird: He can turn structures into strings to spam multi-directional attacks at people with his awakened devil fruit. The attacks aren't unavoidable, but G4 Luffy was getting hit by them, so Enel shouldn't be able to dodge them

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#84 Posted by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk: When Enel went into the wall Luffy says "He disappeared?". - Argument destroyed.

Yeah, you got me there, he can't see a guy through a gold wall, he must not be able to see lightning speed, it's not like he turns around while Enel is already moving, grabs his Trident after dodging and then put's him into the ground.
Anyway nice way to ignore the important part of my post, Luffy OBVIOUSLY dodges Enel in his lightning form, that is all that is needed to PROVE Luffy can see Lightning speed...now stay with me...when he fights Lucci HE CANNOT SEE HIM AT ALL, that put's Lucci over lightning speed and then LUFFY MATCHES THAT SPEED.

The video speaks for itself so i am done, you try to ignore the most important part of the post with one little sentence that makes little sense, for those reading look at 7:07 or so below, Luffy turns around and reacts to Enel in his lightning form, this is all that is needed with the above explanation.

Loading Video...

Turns around, reacts/sees Enel, period. Can't see Lucci, matches his speed = over lightning period. No debate or opinions here he does it.

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#85 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

@enemybird: He can turn structures into strings to spam multi-directional attacks at people with his awakened devil fruit. The attacks aren't unavoidable, but G4 Luffy was getting hit by them, so Enel shouldn't be able to dodge them

The reason Enel couldn't dodge luffy's attacks was because Luffy was not consciously attacking Enel. Not because they were Multi directional.

No Caption Provided

"The fact you think Enel having Observation haki means that he can dodge attacks from people who are miles faster than him astounds me."

That's funny because what i've been saying is Enel can move at the speed of lightning but he needs his mantra is know when the attack it coming. Let me break it down Step by step.

1.Enel senses Doffy is planning on throwing a punch or throw strings.

2. Doffy charges toward Enel or Throws strings

3. Enel uses his lightning speed to dodge Doffy's attack. He is actually able to move out of the way because his travel speed is faster than doffy and his strings.

"do you actually think that his haki is superior to somebody like Rayleigh's or that Doffy hasnt shown lightning speed??"

Doffy hasn't shown lightning speed.

Rayleigh fought kizaru so his Observation Haki is likely stronger than Enel.

"And you still fail to remember that Doffy can just birdcage the area or turn the whole battlefield into a mass of strings, which even with Observation Haki, Enel would not be able to dodge. "

You think Enel is just going to be standing there as Doffy is creating a Birdcage? As I recall Doffy has to stand still with his hand in the air. Enel can simply hit him with an el thor.

"By your own admission, the only times Luffy was able to hit him when he was using mantra was when he was bouncing his attacks off walls, so shouldn't Doffy's awakening achive the same result?"

As I said, Enel couldn't dodge Luffy's attack because Luffy wasn't consciously attacking Enel not because is was multi directional

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#86 Edited by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

Enel is not faster than Doffy lol. His travel speed is his combat speed, my video above shows him charging Luffy in lightning form.

Luffy reacts/dodges Enel at lightning speed, any way you think about it DOESN'T MATTER, it proves Luffy can see him traveling IN LIGHTNING FORM.

HE CANNOT SEE LUCCI and then MATCHES HIM IN COMBAT SPEED. That makes Lucci and g2 Luffy > Lightning, period.

The above is so simple and cements Doffy > Enel because Lucci and g2 Luffy > Enel.

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#87 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

Enel is not faster than Doffy lol. His travel speed is his combat speed, my video above shows him charging Luffy in lightning form.

Luffy reacts/dodges Enel at lightning speed, any way you think about it DOESN'T MATTER, it proves Luffy can see him traveling IN LIGHTNING FORM.

HE CANNOT SEE LUCCI and then MATCHES HIM IN COMBAT SPEED. That makes Lucci and g2 Luffy > Lightning, period.

The above is so simple and cements Doffy > Enel because Lucci and g2 Luffy > Enel.

No Caption Provided

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#88 Posted by Alphapunk (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphapunk said:

Enel is not faster than Doffy lol. His travel speed is his combat speed, my video above shows him charging Luffy in lightning form.

Luffy reacts/dodges Enel at lightning speed, any way you think about it DOESN'T MATTER, it proves Luffy can see him traveling IN LIGHTNING FORM.

HE CANNOT SEE LUCCI and then MATCHES HIM IN COMBAT SPEED. That makes Lucci and g2 Luffy > Lightning, period.

The above is so simple and cements Doffy > Enel because Lucci and g2 Luffy > Enel.

No Caption Provided

Prove it wrong. The feats are legit. Or just be sarcastic and prove you can't counter the points.

You think Enel is faster than Doffy, your the one that has to prove YOUR POINT. My feats stand on their own merits.

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#89 Posted by NinjaWarrior268 (12013 posts) - - Show Bio

Doflamingo. I was especially convinced by this post:

Enel gets utterly stomped by Doflamingo, the speed gap is horrendous, throughout the fight it was proven Luffy and Enel had comparable combat speed. A pre gears pre-timeskip Luffy had comparable combat speed, let that sink in.

Doflamingo blitzes Enel's head off and there's nothing he can do about it, scans don't lie, videos don't lie, based on feats Enel cannot react to Doflamingo, even if he was matching pre-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy he still wouldn't be able to react to Doflamingo, even if he had post-timeskip Luffy's speed he would be hard pressed to react to Doflamingo, see the speed gap?.

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#90 Posted by Back_stabbath95 (2188 posts) - - Show Bio

Doflamingo. I was especially convinced by this post:

Enel gets utterly stomped by Doflamingo, the speed gap is horrendous, throughout the fight it was proven Luffy and Enel had comparable combat speed. A pre gears pre-timeskip Luffy had comparable combat speed, let that sink in.

Doflamingo blitzes Enel's head off and there's nothing he can do about it, scans don't lie, videos don't lie, based on feats Enel cannot react to Doflamingo, even if he was matching pre-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy he still wouldn't be able to react to Doflamingo, even if he had post-timeskip Luffy's speed he would be hard pressed to react to Doflamingo, see the speed gap?.

Agreed. Enel only has his Observational Haki against Doffy who can use all 3 forms of Haki and as this post suggests Doffy will be having no problems tagging him... Enel needs to come back from the moon or we need to go to his moon lol (Oda is a huge sci-fi guy)

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#91 Posted by aSnakeWillBiteBack (34 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats? Doffy one-shots, even without his devil fruit.

However, Eneru HAS had 2 years to work, and logia have more ability for growth than other types, so...

For now, it's a hard one-shot, not even a question, but if Eneru shows up again, he should be at least Katakuri lvl, since his logia is the best IMO.

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#92 Posted by grappolo (3097 posts) - - Show Bio

Enel is fodder here.

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#93 Edited by SocaJunkie (9110 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Doffy, the combat speed gap is hilarious. The starting distance doesn’t matter either, Doffy can send out an Overheat String to cut Enel in half and the latter won’t be able to react to it.

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#94 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18864 posts) - - Show Bio

Enel has terrible durability, Doflamingo cuts him up. But if Enel had strong enough armament haki, he would probably have a good chance due to his lightning speed, mantra, and fire power.

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#95 Posted by Mee09 (5898 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: I wouldn't say it was terrible. Remember that Crocodile was beaten by Luffy pre gears too. Even though Crocodile won 2 and stalemated the last one. Enel also beat Luffy their first fight too. Then got up and left after losing the second. He wasn't out like Crocodile and Doffy were.

I think Doffy wins because he scales to Katakuri. But it'd be a much closer fight than the Armanent Haki fanatics would like to think. Enel could take at least 3 or 4 rounds out of 10 because of powerful his attacks were. I really do want to see Enel return at some point. It'd be pretty awesome.

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#96 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio

People seem to think Doflmaingo is hands down faster than Enel. He is not. Its true that Doflamingo's reaction speed is faster than Enel's. Its true that his H2H combat speed is much faster than Enel's but Enel's travel speed is significantly faster than Doflmaingo's. He is arguably THE fastest character in the series. Kizaru takes time to charge his mirror but Enel can instantly move as fast as lightning from a stand still. That is is above everything in the series except perhaps Kuma. So in reality, he is able to escape Doflmaingo's attacks IF he is able to predict them.

Lets explain again why Enel is able to predict them. In the OP, he states that Enel has basic knowledge of his powers. This hinders Doflmaingo's element of surprise to an extent. Enel has to know he is at a disadvantage at some capacity. It makes zero sense for Enel to have basic knowledge of Mingo and then proceed to fight him the same way he did against Luffy. Someone unlike anyone he had every faced being completely immune to his Devil Fruit. Enel can dodge and spam his lightning attacks. If counter shock worked on Doflmaingo, then Enel's lightning will. Enel's lighting is very powerful even by post time skip standards.

Let me just get this out of the way. Enel's Observation haki feats being bolstered by his Devil fruit are still the best in the series. I find it hard to believe that he will be unable to react to Doflamingo when he has the means due to his Lightning speed and his mantra predictions. I mean enel knew how many people would be standing at the end of a war between the sandians and his holy army hours before it ended. He can sense the presence of specific individuals at island level. He can predict the opening attack from Doflamingo if he his concentration isnt broken and why would it break if he understands what he is up against?

I maintain what I said two years ago.

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#97 Edited by SkySanji (5529 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel Enel and Crocodile get lowballed alot because they lost to pre gears Luffy I can't speak for Enel but Crocodiles feats in The war more than makes up for his lost against Luffy and I guess by hype Enel as well after all the Navy would've put a 500m bounty on his head if he were to come down to the blue sea

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#98 Edited by SocaJunkie (9110 posts) - - Show Bio

Doffy still blitzes his head off, Eneru’s combat and reaction speed is orders of magnitudes slower: make him 10x faster and he’d still get Mingo’d.

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#99 Posted by Enemybird (5158 posts) - - Show Bio
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#100 Posted by zxc6 (743 posts) - - Show Bio

How this even reach to 2 pages

Doffy shit on him effortlessly