Endgame Fat Thor vs Post-Nukes Doomsday

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StealthGrey

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Poll Endgame Fat Thor vs Post-Nukes Doomsday (225 votes)

Thor sent him to Valhala 20%
Doomsday slaughterhouse 75%
Stalemate 4%

Fight take place in Gotham, 30 ft apart

Thor replaces the Trinity

No morals

Thor wielding Stormbreaker and Mjolnir

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death4bunnies

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#151 death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies: The special effects don't always line up, but you can literally see Carols trail from orbit to Thanos. She covered this distance in 0.2 seconds according to my gif maker.

I'm not sure how a trail demonstrates speed or power. Long contrails from a slow moving plane... I'm sure you understand what I'm saying.

  • I think in the gif you can see her making the contrail/energy trail/chem trail in that 0.2 seconds. I need a Super HD version to be sure tho.

Drax's daggers pierced the shit outta Cull Obsidian. They seem like decent exotic space metal.

Decent =/= Godkiller, I'm sure there's lots of decent metal but Godkiller is still extremely rare and nothing below it will cut an Asgardian (to a good degree anyway).

  • Asgardian metal can cut a Asgardian but I get your overall point in weapons scaling. I guess I was just showing a exotic alien metal that failed. If Atlantean steel failed to cut DD I'd consider it below WW sword, but Id still consider it a decent resistance feat for DD because we can see Atlantian steel do what human earthly steel cannot.

It seems vaguely comparable to the idea that Dianas sword cuts between molecules.

Diana's sword actually cuts instead of ionizing the electrons, though.

  • I agree, but if it cuts between the atoms, you'd still need 'atomic piercing resistance' right?

Thor kinda said with regards to science/magic the name doesn't matter, it can all be understood. In other parts of the multiverse I assume physics work differently, harnessing that seems equatable to reality bending magic; but whats in a name.

(From the Thor movie script) Jane: Magic's just science we don't understand yet. Arthur C. Clarke.

Thor: Look -- your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. I come from a place where they're one and the same thing.

(From The Dark World script, with the conversation between Jane and the Asgardian nurse):

That's a quantum field generator, isn't it?  It's a soul forge.  Does a soul forge transfer molecular energy from one place to another?  YES.  I agree that DD may just absorb the energy from eldritch or tech energy weapon; but Thanos doesn't absorb energy so he had to rely on inherent molecular integrity to resist them.  But the point is that energy durability has little to do with cutting durability. In both categories, DD looks to be significantly stronger anyway.

  • Comicvine is acting funny, format buttons are just punching themselves. I don't disagree with your above point, tho I think Asgard is so advance they can call on ansestors and "dark energy" something I doubt even Jane Foster can comprehend.

I think hes close, from Captain Marvels spaceship busting bullrushes, to a combine Ironman/Tnor energy attack he seems pretty resistant.

Refer to my earlier point about CM. And Doomsday's durability is still a tier above what Iron Man and Thor's energy attack was; it'd just make him stronger.

  • I agree the combine attack from Thor and Ironman would make DD stronger, but because Thanos doesnt absorb energy he was forced to resist this attack with his inherent durability.

I think Thor wins if he plays smart and just keeps throwing Strombreaker at Doomsday.

A clean neck shot in my opinion would do it.

There's another major issue in that EG Thor never moved as fast as BvS Superman. Clark never laid a finger on DD on his own. Assuming that I granted a neck shot would do it, how do you demonstrate that Thor can throw Stormbreaker faster than Clark can fly?

  • Oh come on Superman tagged DD plenty of times on his own, Superman even landed the first punch on DD before DD touched Clark or Diana/Batman had arrived. DD isnt a great dodger; when Diana got that first cut on his arm, he just swung again, then got his arm chopped off. Zero skill or tactics.
  • Thor has some decent reaction speed feats from his prime, looking at you unquantifiable energy blast/necro blades, but thats not how I think he hits DD.
  • I think he hits DD due to his incredible control over stormbreaker.
    When Thor arrived in Wakanda he cleared the outriders off of T'chall, Cap, and Hulkbuster before the Biforst had finished glowing.
  • That is either a incredible accuracy feat, or Stormbreaker can kinda seek out enemies like Mjolnir did against Surtar troops.
  • I think its the latter, Thors telekinetic control over Stormbreaker should give him some pretty good chances for a neck shot, or a between the eyes shot.

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arqe

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Actually we've concluded this on another thread. Wonder Woman did cut Steppenwolf through his armor. But it doesn't really noticeable at normal speeds. I did re-watch the whole fight 4k slow-mo. She literally cuts his armor and his blood splashes all over but because Wonder Woman's sword glows when it cuts we can't notice the blood on normal screens with normal play speeds.

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arqe

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#153  Edited By arqe

@jashugan said:

@death4bunnies:

Vibranium has magical sharpness but it is still an object, force has to be applied.

Then why Cap's shield just bounces off almost %90 of the places Cap thrown it ? His shield ALMOST didn't cut anything at all.

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laflux

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Probably Doomsday but Thot can take a few rounds.

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jashugan

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@death4bunnies:

What something looks like isn't a valid argument.

Doomsday caught superman mid flight. He might be a raging monster but he still has a few brain cells.

Dimensional what? Evidence please.

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FlashFyr

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#156  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies:I think in the gif you can see her making the contrail/energy trail/chem trail in that 0.2 seconds. I need a Super HD version to be sure tho.

I see her as a flash of light in the foreground, not an orb coming all the way from the background. But even if that were the case, speed in of itself doesn't demonstrate power, and there's no independent evidence (like the surrounding area) to demonstrate it. Any claim to how hard she hit Thanos is based on faith at this point.

I agree, but if it cuts between the atoms, you'd still need 'atomic piercing resistance' right?

Due to an unrelated mechanic (atom thin sharpness), yes.

Comicvine is acting funny, format buttons are just punching themselves. I don't disagree with your above point, tho I think Asgard is so advance they can call on ansestors and "dark energy" something I doubt even Jane Foster can comprehend.

I'm just saying it's actually energy and not magic in the supernatural sense. You have to categorize it as energy; there's no way around it. Doomsday's energy resistance is better.

I agree the combine attack from Thor and Ironman would make DD stronger, but because Thanos doesnt absorb energy he was forced to resist this attack with his inherent durability.

Okay, but so far Doomsday's resistance in everything is better... Nothing has disproven that yet.

Oh come on Superman tagged DD plenty of times on his own, Superman even landed the first punch on DD before DD touched Clark or Diana/Batman had arrived.

Doomsday before any energy absorption, yes. Basically a newborn. And that newborn caught Superman midflight and got more strikes in than Clark landed.

DD isnt a great dodger; when Diana got that first cut on his arm, he just swung again, then got his arm chopped off. Zero skill or tactics.

And EG Thor isn't a great tank nor a great dodger. He got put down by Thanos basically stepping on him, and DD's strikes far surpass any of Thanos'. What's more likely is that Doomsday pummels Thor before he lands a chop (like what he did to Diana), he gets something cut off, gets angry and pummels Thor (like what happened when Superman stabbed him), or he bullrushes Thor with the same speed he knee'd Superman in the face with, or he bullrushes after Thor's already thrown Stormbreaker, or he stuns with heat vision and promptly pummels, or he stuns with an energy explosion and pummels Thor. There are multiple avenues for DD to win whereas Thor has one or two, all of which require some kind of setup. You can poke at those possibilities all you want, but the fact remains that DD has more versatility. He needs far less setup on average. DD has superior, relevant stats. DD is the far more plausible candidate.

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death4bunnies

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#157  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies:I think in the gif you can see her making the contrail/energy trail/chem trail in that 0.2 seconds. I need a Super HD version to be sure tho.

I see her as a flash of light in the foreground, not an orb coming all the way from the background. But even if that were the case, speed in of itself doesn't demonstrate power, and there's no independent evidence (like the surrounding area) to demonstrate it. Any claim to how hard she hit Thanos is based on faith at this point.

Environmental damage rarely shows the true power of the combatants, Ie the Hulks vs Thanos fight.

Speed and mass are a way better way to demonstrate force than enviormental damage.

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I agree, but if it cuts between the atoms, you'd still need 'atomic piercing resistance' right?

Due to an unrelated mechanic (atom thin sharpness), yes.

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Comicvine is acting funny, format buttons are just punching themselves. I don't disagree with your above point, tho I think Asgard is so advance they can call on ansestors and "dark energy" something I doubt even Jane Foster can comprehend.

I'm just saying it's actually energy and not magic in the supernatural sense. You have to categorize it as energy; there's no way around it. Doomsday's energy resistance is better.

Ya I think its interdementional energy that doesn't always have to play by the same rules(physics) as our dimension.

I don't think he has reality bending, or physics bending resistance if that makes sense.

-----

I agree the combine attack from Thor and Ironman would make DD stronger, but because Thanos doesnt absorb energy he was forced to resist this attack with his inherent durability.

Okay, but so far Doomsday's resistance in everything is better... Nothing has disproven that yet.

I concede he has some better feats I just disagree about the gap.

If steel is more durable than iron, and we see a bullet rip through iron it doesnt automatically mean the bullet will fail to rip thought he steel just based on the fact that steel is more durable than iron.

I understand the idea of less than, greater than feats; I just think the variety of weapons Thanos has took to mean that he is particularly resistant to piercing, not that he has greater piercing resistance than DD.

If that makes sense.

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Oh come on Superman tagged DD plenty of times on his own, Superman even landed the first punch on DD before DD touched Clark or Diana/Batman had arrived.

Doomsday before any energy absorption, yes. Basically a newborn. And that newborn caught Superman midflight and got more strikes in than Clark landed.

Superman connected more than just that one time, Diana also connected unassisted.

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DD isnt a great dodger; when Diana got that first cut on his arm, he just swung again, then got his arm chopped off. Zero skill or tactics.

And EG Thor isn't a great tank. He got put down by Thanos basically stepping on him, and DD's strikes far surpass any of Thanos'. What's more likely is that Doomsday pummels Thor before he lands a chop (like what he did to Diana), he gets something cut off, gets angry and pummels Thor (like what happened when Superman stabbed him), or he bullrushes Thor with the same speed he knee'd Superman in the face with, or he bullrushes after Thor's already thrown Stormbreaker. There are multiple avenues for DD to win whereas Thor has one or two, and DD's stats make him the far more plausible candidate.

I can agree with most of this; tho Diana didn't have a telekinetically controlled weapon she likes to throw. If Diana had the same control over her sword as Thor has over Mjolnir and Stormbreaker, I think she could of solo'd

I would like to point out that Thor has Mjolinr and Stormbreaker here. DD will be getting hit by flying weapons from odd angles all whist trying to consentrate on Thor.

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death4bunnies

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#158  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@jashugan said:

@death4bunnies:

What something looks like isn't a valid argument.

I assume you mean when I said Drax's knifes looked impressive. I mean they seem impressive as they were just poking holes in Cull, I doubt a kitchen knife could replicate.

Doomsday caught superman mid flight. He might be a raging monster but he still has a few brain cells.

A few, but his repose to sharp objects that can cut him is to punch at the sharp object. Thats how he lost his arm, not the initial cut, but the second cut DD could of/should of avoided if he had any sense; instead he swung his arm back down towards the object that just cut him.

Dimensional what? Evidence please.

Dimensional energy construct. Dr Strange and the MCU sorcerers pull their power from other dimensions. Some of the dimensions that they draw this energy from doesn't play by the same physics 'rules' as our dimension.

Absolute proof is below

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Magical Interdementional energy construct seems like the best description for Dr Strange's eldritch sword.

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FlashFyr

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#159  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies: Speed and mass are a way better way to demonstrate force than enviormental damage.

Unless the combatant is holding back despite her speed and mass (which CM clearly was), and that's why any claim to how hard she hit Thanos is based on faith at this point.

Ya I think its interdementional energy that doesn't always have to play by the same rules(physics) as our dimension.

I don't think he has reality bending, or physics bending resistance if that makes sense.

This goes back to my previous point- Doctor Strange could be using physics that makes cotton candy the sharpest material on Earth, but if we can't demonstrate that then we have no good reason to believe it and it's just faith. I'm not saying you're wrong in your assertion, I'm just saying we have no good reason to think it's true.

Superman connected more than just that one time, Diana also connected unassisted.

Clark got two hits to Doomsday's 4-5. After DD's buff, he completely outclassed Clark's speed.

I can agree with most of this; tho Diana didn't have a telekinetically controlled weapon she likes tho throw. If Diana had the control over her sword as Thor has over Mjolnir and Stormbreaker, I think she could of solo'd

I would like to point out that Thor has Mjolinr and Stormbreaker here. DD will be getting hit by flying weapons from odd angles all whist trying to consentrate on Thor.

I can safely say DD would land a punch in the time it takes Stormbreaker or Mjolnir to be released and fly through the air, especially since Thor has to setup for a throw. If Diana could have solo'd, it'd be because she'd be faster with the setup but she'd still take hits left and right without a defense. DD has ranged attacks too, and he uses them. But he's also capable of blitzing, and blitzing very fast.

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death4bunnies

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#160  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies: Speed and mass are a way better way to demonstrate force than enviormental damage.

Unless the combatant is holding back despite her speed and mass (which CM clearly was), and that's why any claim to how hard she hit Thanos is based on faith at this point.

Im not sure she was holding back, Cm and team thought Thanos still had a full infinity gauntlet equipped; they didn't notice the stone were missing until Thor cut off Thanos' arm.

I see no reason she'd hold back against a fully gauntleted Thanos, they could of took the stones off his dead body for all they knew at that moment.

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Ya I think its interdementional energy that doesn't always have to play by the same rules(physics) as our dimension.

I don't think he has reality bending, or physics bending resistance if that makes sense.

This goes back to my previous point- Doctor Strange could be using physics that makes cotton candy the sharpest material on Earth, but if we can't demonstrate that then we have no good reason to believe it and it's just faith. I'm not saying you're wrong in your assertion, I'm just saying we have no good reason to think it's true.

I just think it counts as a magical resistance feat, I understand your position tho.

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Superman connected more than just that one time, Diana also connected unassisted.

Clark got two hits to Doomsday's 4-5. After DD's buff, he completely outclassed Clark's speed.

But he didn't outclass Diana in speed? She got 2 clean shots on DD solo, and that was post nuke.

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I can agree with most of this; tho Diana didn't have a telekinetically controlled weapon she likes tho throw. If Diana had the control over her sword as Thor has over Mjolnir and Stormbreaker, I think she could of solo'd

I would like to point out that Thor has Mjolinr and Stormbreaker here. DD will be getting hit by flying weapons from odd angles all whist trying to consentrate on Thor.

I can safely say DD would land a punch in the time it takes Stormbreaker or Mjolnir to be released and fly through the air, especially since Thor has to setup for a throw. If Diana could have solo'd, it'd be because she'd be faster with the setup but she'd still take hits left and right without a defense. DD has ranged attacks too, and he uses them.

Im not sure DDs ranged attacks would have any effect on Thor expect knockback.

I can see Thor surviving a couple blows from DD, but I agree a lot depends on how fast Thor gets his weapons airborne.

Remember he got a accurate Stormbreaker throw off in wakanda before the bifrost even finished transporting him.

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FlashFyr

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#161  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies:

Im not sure she was holding back, Cm and team thought Thanos still had a full infinity gauntlet equipped; they didn't notice the stone were missing until Thor cut off Thanos' arm.

I see no reason she'd hold back against a fully gauntleted Thanos, they could of took the stones off his dead body for all they knew at that moment.

CM would've just turned Thanos into an oil painting or put her fist 3 miles through his head, then. I can understand trying to apprehend Thanos in Infinity War where they've already attacked him a bazillion times and nothing seems to get through (or where Strange told them that's what they needed to do), but CM would've at least tried to reduce him to grape juice if it was really in her power to do so.

But he didn't outclass Diana in speed? She got 2 clean shots on DD solo, and that was post nuke.

DD was distracted when she hit him with her shield and was just in a really good spot with Diana's sword.

Im not sure DDs ranged attacks would have any effect on Thor expect knockback.

The stun/knockback is all that's needed for DD to blitz with the finishing blow.

I can see Thor surviving a couple blows from DD, but I agree a lot depends on how fast Thor gets his weapons airborne.

I don't see it. EG Thor got KO'd by Thanos' stomp whereas DD just... his fists are just... :L

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death4bunnies

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#162  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies:

Im not sure she was holding back, Cm and team thought Thanos still had a full infinity gauntlet equipped; they didn't notice the stone were missing until Thor cut off Thanos' arm.

I see no reason she'd hold back against a fully gauntleted Thanos, they could of took the stones off his dead body for all they knew at that moment.

CM would've just turned Thanos into an oil painting or put her fist 3 miles through his head, then. I can understand trying to apprehend Thanos in Infinity War where they've already attacked him a bazillion times and nothing seems to get through (or where Strange told them that's what they needed to do), but CM would've at least tried to reduce him to grape juice if it was really in her power to do so.

Or he's just that durable. I think thats more likely as he was also hit by Nebulas spaceship.

I agree if it was in her power to do so she would of killed him in that initial bullrush, but he's really durable.

I mean he's took hits from Hulk, Mjolnir, Thor, spaceships and building sized rocks, he seems to be pretty durable.

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But he didn't outclass Diana in speed? She got 2 clean shots on DD solo, and that was post nuke.

DD was distracted when she hit him with her shield and was just in a really good spot with Diana's sword.

By the second sword strike he knows it can hurt him and wildly swings at the blade anyway.

Its not that I don't think he can dodge, I just don't think he has the battlefield awareness or strategy or skill to dodge Stormbreaker, Mjolnir, and Thor.

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Im not sure DDs ranged attacks would have any effect on Thor expect knockback.

The stun/knockback is all that's needed for DD to blitz with the finishing blow.

I disagree, tho Thor often shows cosmetic damage, such as split lips and bloody scratches, I think his ability to resist the KO would require a Hulk style ground and pound from DD; do-able but not a oneshot.

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I can see Thor surviving a couple blows from DD, but I agree a lot depends on how fast Thor gets his weapons airborne.

I don't see it. EG Thor got KO'd by Thanos' stomp whereas DD just... his fists are just... :L

Thor wasnt KO'd he was hurt sure, but he was awake to watch Cap fight Thanos, he even cheered on Cap.

I agree DD hits harder than Thanos tho, but I think DD has a tendency to just hit people away from him.

I think when DD connects with Thor it will send him flying, I think Thor can survive a couple of these.

If DD gets Thor between the ground and his fist, I agree its lights out for Thor.

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SirPounce

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Doomsday two shots at most.

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jashugan

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@death4bunnies:

Who cares about a kitchen knife? Those aren't even used in battle or war. Why would that be your basis for comparison?

Again, Cull is unimpressive in comparison to thor and doomsday.

They obtain their power from other dimensions it absolutely means nothing since they're making physical constructs in our universe that only have feats of cutting a car and cull. Two things less durable than doomsday which is why the Russo brothers say it might not be enough against thanos.

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Amcu

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Thor dies.

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FlashFyr

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@death4bunnies: Or he's just that durable. I think thats more likely as he was also hit by Nebulas spaceship.

I agree if it was in her power to do so she would of killed him in that initial bullrush, but he's really durable.

I mean he's took hits from Hulk, Mjolnir, Thor, spaceships and building sized rocks, he seems to be pretty durable.

M8, his attack didn't even phase her. When an object of extremely superior hardness hits another object at the speeds you're talking about, with no holding back, the recipient isn't going to be in any sort of fighting condition.

By the second sword strike he knows it can hurt him and wildly swings at the blade anyway.

Its not that I don't think he can dodge, I just don't think he has the battlefield awareness or strategy or skill to dodge Stormbreaker, Mjolnir, and Thor.

I don't think Thor has enough clear avenues for a majority victory as opposed to DD, especially with the setup problem.

I disagree, tho Thor often shows cosmetic damage, such as split lips and bloody scratches, I think his ability to resist the KO would require a Hulk style ground and pound from DD; do-able but not a oneshot.

Will address this in the next point.

Thor wasnt KO'd he was hurt sure, but he was awake to watch Cap fight Thanos, he even cheered on Cap.

I agree DD hits harder than Thanos tho, but I think DD has a tendency to just hit people away from him.

I think when DD connects with Thor it will send him flying, I think Thor can survive a couple of these.

If DD gets Thor between the ground and his fist, I agree its lights out for Thor.

The only method of "hitting someone away" is hitting them with more force. And yeah, if it were prime Thor then I could see him surviving a couple DD level blows. Fat Thor though? Nah, I don't see it. Thanos' headbutt damaged him way way way more than I believe he would've been in his prime. Same goes for Thanos' stomp.

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death4bunnies

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#167 death4bunnies  Moderator

@jashugan said:

@death4bunnies:

Who cares about a kitchen knife? Those aren't even used in battle or war. Why would that be your basis for comparison?

Again it just speaks to the variety of weapons that have failed against Thanos' skin; Chalk up 'exotic space metal daggers' to the things hes resisted.

Again, Cull is unimpressive in comparison to thor and doomsday.

Ive said it over and over again, I believe the variety of piercing weapons that have failed against Thanos' skin is impressive.

I agree that DD has marginally better piercing resistance than Thanos; but I believe thats only true because DD encountered more real life weapons, while the piercing weapons Thanos encountered are harder to quantify.

We can just google the force a 50 cal bullet produces, its a little harder to quantify Dr strange eldritch sword, or Drax's knives.

They obtain their power from other dimensions it absolutely means nothing since they're making physical constructs in our universe that only have feats of cutting a car and cull. Two things less durable than doomsday which is why the Russo brothers say it might not be enough against thanos.

I was just showing you why I refer to Doctor Strange's sword as a magical interdimensional construct.

Im talking about the sword shown here

Doctor Strange's Eldritch sword with his hand.

Again just to show variety.

Chalk up magical interdementional swords to things Thanos' skin has resisted.

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jashugan

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@death4bunnies: you meander too much without making a point while saying a whole bunch of nothing.

You aren't proving anything by bringing up that thanos has been hit by a magical sword construct or a drax knife except telling us he has been hit by it. Big whoop.

No one cares about the variety.

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@jashugan said:

@death4bunnies:

Who cares about a kitchen knife? Those aren't even used in battle or war. Why would that be your basis for comparison?

Again it just speaks to the variety of weapons that have failed against Thanos' skin; Chalk up 'exotic space metal daggers' to the things hes resisted.

Again, Cull is unimpressive in comparison to thor and doomsday.

Ive said it over and over again, I believe the variety of piercing weapons that have failed against Thanos' skin is impressive.

I agree that DD has marginally better piercing resistance than Thanos; but I believe thats only true because DD encountered more real life weapons, while the piercing weapons Thanos encountered are harder to quantify.

We can just google the force a 50 cal bullet produces, its a little harder to quantify Dr strange eldritch sword, or Drax's knives.

They obtain their power from other dimensions it absolutely means nothing since they're making physical constructs in our universe that only have feats of cutting a car and cull. Two things less durable than doomsday which is why the Russo brothers say it might not be enough against thanos.

I was just showing you why I refer to Doctor Strange's sword as a magical interdimensional construct.

Im talking about the sword shown here

Doctor Strange's Eldritch sword with his hand.

Again just to show variety.

Chalk up magical interdementional swords to things Thanos' skin has resisted.

Can you give anything of note that the 'magical interdimensional' sword has cut?

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death4bunnies

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#170 death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies: Or he's just that durable. I think thats more likely as he was also hit by Nebulas spaceship.

I agree if it was in her power to do so she would of killed him in that initial bullrush, but he's really durable.

I mean he's took hits from Hulk, Mjolnir, Thor, spaceships and building sized rocks, he seems to be pretty durable.

M8, his attack didn't even phase her. When an object of extremely superior hardness hits another object at the speeds you're talking about, with no holding back, the recipient isn't going to be in any sort of fighting condition.

Sometimes squishy things can be durable.

I think MCU Thor is squishier than DCEU Superman, but I think his bones hold up pretty well.

Like a twilight vampire vs the marvel mutant Blob.

--------------------

By the second sword strike he knows it can hurt him and wildly swings at the blade anyway.

Its not that I don't think he can dodge, I just don't think he has the battlefield awareness or strategy or skill to dodge Stormbreaker, Mjolnir, and Thor.

I don't think Thor has enough clear avenues for a majority victory as opposed to DD, especially with the setup problem.

Thats a fair thought.

----------------------

I disagree, tho Thor often shows cosmetic damage, such as split lips and bloody scratches, I think his ability to resist the KO would require a Hulk style ground and pound from DD; do-able but not a oneshot.

Will address this in the next point.

---------

Thor wasnt KO'd he was hurt sure, but he was awake to watch Cap fight Thanos, he even cheered on Cap.

I agree DD hits harder than Thanos tho, but I think DD has a tendency to just hit people away from him.

I think when DD connects with Thor it will send him flying, I think Thor can survive a couple of these.

If DD gets Thor between the ground and his fist, I agree its lights out for Thor.

The only method of "hitting someone away" is hitting them with more force. And yeah, if it were prime Thor then I could see him surviving a couple DD level blows. Fat Thor though? Nah, I don't see it. Thanos' headbutt damaged him way way way more than I believe he would've been in his prime. Same goes for Thanos' stomp.

Im kinda talking about the difference between hitting someone away and hitting someone that cant be hit away.

Im sure you agree that a even a single ground and pound punch is usually more force than a punch that knocks someone away(I think we agree here, but I cant tell; lol.

In Thors prime Thanos was dragging him across the floor by his head, I don't think 'Fat Thor' is any weaker than 'Prime Thor' just a bit slower; I think he fights a little more like a real viking now(which I like).

I think Thanos is just consistently a tier above man; from his Hulk showing, to beating on Thor and Captain Marvel, he's a bit above the MCU top tiers: he has crazy low showings also(like Spiderman) but this is a Disney property were talking about here.

I believe the Russos set up Thanos as 'just that powerful' ever sense the Hulk fight.

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death4bunnies

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#171 death4bunnies  Moderator

@jashugan said:

@death4bunnies: you meander too much without making a point while saying a whole bunch of nothing.

You literally asked for proof, it wasnt a meander it was just a response to a direct question.

You aren't proving anything by bringing up that thanos has been hit by a magical sword construct or a drax knife except telling us he has been hit by it. Big whoop.

It prove his piercing durability is above Culls, and that hes shown resistance to a magic sword.

No one cares about the variety.

Ok

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anthp2000

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#172 anthp2000  Moderator

Fat Thor is way cooler than most, he wins.

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ThEBeStOfTheBeST

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Doomsday one-shots Fat Thor. He hits incredibly harder than Thanos, and is too durable and too fast for Thor to decapitate.

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FlashFyr

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#174  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies:Sometimes squishy things can be durable.

I think it's more inductively likely that CM didn't intend to kill him. Your assertion is based on faith. I don't know how else to say this.

Im kinda talking about the difference between hitting someone away and hitting someone that cant be hit away.

Im sure you agree that a even a single ground and pound punch is usually more force than a punch that knocks someone away(I think we agree here, but I cant tell; lol.

Sure, but in a comparison between DD and Thanos, I'd say DD's fist hits harder than Thanos' stomp no matter which way he punches. By your own admission, DCEU Superman is more durable and he was just fine taking those hits. Thor got clapped by Kurse who had weaker strikes. Nothing in EG suggested Thor would take DD level hits, EG actually suggested the opposite.

In Thors prime Thanos was dragging him across the floor by his head, I don't think 'Fat Thor' is any weaker than 'Prime Thor' just a bit slower; I think he fights a little more like a real viking now(which I like).

You really think fat Thor retained all the stats of a fully athletic one? That runs counter to biology in general (and yes, Asgardians are still biological creatures) and I have no idea what makes you think fat Thor and prime Thor would be a stalemate in equal gear. Do you think fat Thor would be able to jump over Hulk's attacks or out of the way like in Ragnarok? If so... why?????

I think Thanos is just consistently a tier above man; from his Hulk showing, to beating on Thor and Captain Marvel, he's a bit above the MCU top tiers: he has crazy low showings also(like Spiderman) but this is a Disney property were talking about here.

I believe the Russos set up Thanos as 'just that powerful' ever sense the Hulk fight.

And? We already established that DD has better feats. Are you trying to argue that Thanos wins in a DD vs Thor argument for some reason?

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death4bunnies

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#175 death4bunnies  Moderator

@death4bunnies said:
jashugun said:

@death4bunnies:

Who cares about a kitchen knife? Those aren't even used in battle or war. Why would that be your basis for comparison?

Again it just speaks to the variety of weapons that have failed against Thanos' skin; Chalk up 'exotic space metal daggers' to the things hes resisted.

Again, Cull is unimpressive in comparison to thor and doomsday.

Ive said it over and over again, I believe the variety of piercing weapons that have failed against Thanos' skin is impressive.

I agree that DD has marginally better piercing resistance than Thanos; but I believe thats only true because DD encountered more real life weapons, while the piercing weapons Thanos encountered are harder to quantify.

We can just google the force a 50 cal bullet produces, its a little harder to quantify Dr strange eldritch sword, or Drax's knives.

They obtain their power from other dimensions it absolutely means nothing since they're making physical constructs in our universe that only have feats of cutting a car and cull. Two things less durable than doomsday which is why the Russo brothers say it might not be enough against thanos.

I was just showing you why I refer to Doctor Strange's sword as a magical interdimensional construct.

Im talking about the sword shown here

Doctor Strange's Eldritch sword with his hand.

Again just to show variety.

Chalk up magical interdementional swords to things Thanos' skin has resisted.

Can you give anything of note that the 'magical interdimensional' sword has cut?

No not in sword form aside from a small rock and not Thanos.

In dagger form the Ancient One broke a staff and killed a bunch of bad wizards with it, I think she used eldritch daggers during the battle of New York to kill so Chitari also.

I was kind of just showing Thanos isnt particularly weak to magic or interdementional energies.

II brought it up in a list of piercing feats for Thanos, it wasn't ment to stand alone and the sword is definitely below Doomsdays durability(unless you think DD is particularly weak to magic, I don't)

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#176 death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies:Sometimes squishy things can be durable.

I think it's more inductively likely that CM didn't intend to kill him. Your assertion is based on faith. I don't know how else to say this.

Im kinda just basing it off speed, and the other things Carol has bullrushed(like Thanos' ship or the accusers ship).

Its not hard for me to imagine Thanos being more durable than a spaceship.

She said "im going to kill Thanos", and had no reason not to.

------------

Im kinda talking about the difference between hitting someone away and hitting someone that cant be hit away.

Im sure you agree that a even a single ground and pound punch is usually more force than a punch that knocks someone away(I think we agree here, but I cant tell; lol.

Sure, but in a comparison between DD and Thanos, I'd say DD's fist hits harder than Thanos' stomp no matter which way he punches.

I could agree with this, but Thor wasn't KO'd by Thanos' stomp. I think Thor shows more cosmetic damage than internal damage; like he has hard bones, thats why hes always getting scratched, but not KO'd.

---------

In Thors prime Thanos was dragging him across the floor by his head, I don't think 'Fat Thor' is any weaker than 'Prime Thor' just a bit slower; I think he fights a little more like a real viking now(which I like).

You really think fat Thor retained all the stats of a fully athletic one? That runs counter to biology in general (and yes, Asgardians are still biological creatures) and I have no idea what makes you think fat Thor and prime Thor would be a stalemate in equal gear. Do you think fat Thor would be able to jump over Hulk's attacks or out of the way like in Ragnarok?

I may even say 'Fat Thor' wins.

Prime Thor snuck Thanos and the IG beam couldn't defect Stormbreaker while his sword could.

If Thanos had his sword in IW he could of deflected the Axe reasonably.

I think Fat Thor would fight Hulk differently but still win.

I think Thor retained his strength, and his durability, with maybe a speed nerf.

Fat Thor was still fighting and dogging some of Thanos's blows, the same Thanos that picked apart Hulk.

----------------

I think Thanos is just consistently a tier above man; from his Hulk showing, to beating on Thor and Captain Marvel, he's a bit above the MCU top tiers: he has crazy low showings also(like Spiderman) but this is a Disney property were talking about here.

I believe the Russos set up Thanos as 'just that powerful' ever sense the Hulk fight.

And? We already established that DD has better feats. Are you trying to argue that Thanos wins in a DD vs Thor argument for some reason?

No Im comparing the creature that Strombreaker pierced to the creature Thor is up against here.

You claimed that a couple durability feats from Thanos were a bit less than I rate them at based specifically on carol not going for a full bullrush. One of your reasons were Thanos would of been turned into grape juice, or oil paint; I was just trying to say I think they ment for him to be that durable.

I would be like if I looked at Superman bullrushing DD from low earth orbit and said; "well he didn't hit him that hard because DD would of turned to paste".

I do think DD withstood a mach+ bullrush from orbit.

I also think Thanos withstood a mach+ bullrush from orbit.

I don't think DD has altogether better feats, I do think he has a few feats Thanos cant match tho; I just don't see that gap as something Stormbreaker cannot overcome.

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@death4bunnies: II brought it up in a list of piercing feats for Thanos, it wasn't ment to stand alone and the sword is definitely below Doomsdays durability(unless you think DD is particularly weak to magic, I don't)

No Kryptonian has ever been particularly weak to magic as far as I know. They've just been vulnerable to it, as in they have no inherent defenses to it. For instance, the magical lightning Ares used in WW's standalone film wouldn't kill DCEU Clark or DD just because it was magic since they've survived much more potent energy. Magic is more of a means to an end than an actual end if you get what I'm trying to say.

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death4bunnies

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#178 death4bunnies  Moderator

@death4bunnies: II brought it up in a list of piercing feats for Thanos, it wasn't ment to stand alone and the sword is definitely below Doomsdays durability(unless you think DD is particularly weak to magic, I don't)

No Kryptonian has ever been particularly weak to magic as far as I know. They've just been vulnerable to it, as in they have no inherent defenses to it. For instance, the magical lightning Ares used in WW's standalone film wouldn't kill DCEU Clark or DD just because it was magic since they've survived much more potent energy. Magic is more of a means to an end than an actual end if you get what I'm trying to say.

I agree with you 100%.

I just know some people say that DD was only pierced by strong magic, for them I was just showing that Stormbreaker > Dr Stranges eldritch sword.

Again it wasn't ment to stand alone just to show Thanos' piercing resistance from multiple unusual but unquantifiable weapons.

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#179  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies:

Im kinda just basing it off speed, and the other things Carol has bullrushed(like Thanos' ship or the accusers ship).

Its not hard for me to imagine Thanos being more durable than a spaceship.

She said "im going to kill Thanos", and had no reason not to.

It's hard for me to imagine him standing up to an object his attack literally bounced off, all while staying inside his shack and that shack having no collateral damage whatsoever. Seriously, a shack. A fully bloodlusted Carol would obliterate that on accident. Instead of getting into the reasons CM had to not kill Thanos, there's the fact that saying "I'm going to kill someone" tells you nothing about how, when, or if I actually mean it. Visually, it does not look like she's trying.

I could agree with this, but Thor wasn't KO'd by Thanos' stomp. I think Thor shows more cosmetic damage than internal damage; like he has hard bones, thats why hes always getting scratched, but not KO'd.

Well Thor didn't get back up, and he sure isn't getting up from DD when DD hits harder than Thanos' stomp.

I may even say 'Fat Thor' wins.

Prime Thor snuck Thanos and the IG beam couldn't defect Stormbreaker while his sword could.

If Thanos had his sword in IW he could of deflected the Axe reasonably.

I think Fat Thor would fight Hulk differently but still win.

I think Thor retained his strength, and his durability, with maybe a speed nerf.

Again, why...??? You didn't answer the question. Thor is a biological creature -> Biological creatures lose physical aptitude after 5 years of inactivity and major fat gain -> Thor went through 5 years of inactivity and major fat gain -> Therefore, Thor lost physical aptitude. Stop telling me what you think and start telling me what Thor did that could possibly lead you to this conclusion, and especially tell me why it's even relevant if DD can put Thor down with one punch.

Fat Thor was still fighting and dogging some of Thanos's blows, the same Thanos that picked apart Hulk.

Cool, Thanos is slower.

No Im comparing the creature that Strombreaker pierced to the creature Thor is up against here.

You claimed that a couple durability feats from Thanos were a bit less than I rate them at based specifically on carol not going for a full bullrush. One of your reasons were Thanos would of been turned into grape juice, or oil paint; I was just trying to say I think they ment for him to be that durable.

I would be like if I looked at Superman bullrushing DD from low earth orbit and said; "well he didn't hit him that hard because DD would of turned to paste".

I do think DD withstood a mach+ bullrush from orbit.

I also think Thanos withstood a mach+ bullrush from orbit.

The difference is that I can prove the mach bullrush with independent evidence (collateral damage, shockwaves, the sound barrier breaking, the distance DD was flung). I can definitely say that DD has durability similar to or greater than Clark, so he would not be turned to paste from that bullrush unless Clark was also turned to paste. You have no independent evidence; Thanos is blatantly not as durable or as strong as Carol, so what's your justification for saying he's just inherently fine? Faith.

I don't think DD has altogether better feats, I do think he has a few feats Thanos cant match tho; I just don't see that gap as something Stormbreaker cannot overcome.

I already told you to assume I'm granting Stormbreaker can cut DD, now demonstrate that Thor can actually hit DD with it.

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#180 death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies:

Im kinda just basing it off speed, and the other things Carol has bullrushed(like Thanos' ship or the accusers ship).

Its not hard for me to imagine Thanos being more durable than a spaceship.

She said "im going to kill Thanos", and had no reason not to.

It's hard for me to imagine him standing up to an object his attack literally bounced off, all while staying inside his shack and that shack having no collateral damage whatsoever. Seriously, a shack. A fully bloodlusted Carol would obliterate that on accident. Instead of getting into the reasons CM had to not kill Thanos, there's the fact that saying "I'm going to kill someone" tells you nothing about how, when, or if I actually mean it. Visually, it does not look like she's trying.

Maybe; Thanos also took Nebulas spaceship crashing into him, so he still has comparable feats.

---------------------

I could agree with this, but Thor wasn't KO'd by Thanos' stomp. I think Thor shows more cosmetic damage than internal damage; like he has hard bones, thats why hes always getting scratched, but not KO'd.

Well Thor didn't get back up, and he sure isn't getting up from DD when DD hits harder than Thanos' stomp.

Thor got backup after a minute, and its not like he couldn't stand.

Thanos stomped him and was repeatedly hitting him, then Cap threw Stormbreaker.

Thor wasn't out of the fight and hes been in that position and won before.

--------------

I may even say 'Fat Thor' wins.

Prime Thor snuck Thanos and the IG beam couldn't defect Stormbreaker while his sword could.

If Thanos had his sword in IW he could of deflected the Axe reasonably.

I think Fat Thor would fight Hulk differently but still win.

I think Thor retained his strength, and his durability, with maybe a speed nerf.

Again, why...??? You didn't answer the question. Thor is a biological creature -> Biological creatures lose physical aptitude after 5 years of inactivity and major fat gain -> Thor went through 5 years of inactivity and major fat gain -> Therefore, Thor lost physical aptitude. Stop telling me what you think and start telling me what Thor did that could possibly lead you to this conclusion, and especially tell me why it's even relevant if DD can put Thor down with one punch.

Because big guys alot of the time hit harder than smaller fit guys for one.

2 I understand Thor is a biological creature but hes also 1500 years old.

I know that I retained most of my high school strength even tho im less active.

I did tell you what led me to this conclusion; Fat Thor has fought 1 person... Thanos.

I think he did just as well or better than Thor with abs against that one opponent minus the sneak attack.

--------------

Fat Thor was still fighting and dogging some of Thanos's blows, the same Thanos that picked apart Hulk.

Cool, Thanos is slower.

I understand that Thanos is slower than DD but you asked if I though Fat Thor could keep up in the gladiator match with Hulk right? I answered by showing how he was able to keep up with and dodge some of Thanos' attacks; the one person Fat Thor has fought.

------------

No Im comparing the creature that Strombreaker pierced to the creature Thor is up against here.

You claimed that a couple durability feats from Thanos were a bit less than I rate them at based specifically on carol not going for a full bullrush. One of your reasons were Thanos would of been turned into grape juice, or oil paint; I was just trying to say I think they ment for him to be that durable.

I would be like if I looked at Superman bullrushing DD from low earth orbit and said; "well he didn't hit him that hard because DD would of turned to paste".

I do think DD withstood a mach+ bullrush from orbit.

I also think Thanos withstood a mach+ bullrush from orbit.

The difference is that I can prove the mach bullrush with independent evidence (collateral damage, shockwaves, the sound barrier breaking, the distance DD was flung). I can definitely say that DD has durability similar to or greater than Clark, so he would not be turned to paste from that bullrush unless Clark was also turned to paste. Thanos is blatantly not as durable or as strong as Carol, and what's your justification for saying he's just inherently fine? Faith.

No faith, im just looking at the speed she hit him at and what happens when she hits other things at that speed.

I understand that there wasn't collateral damage or shockwaves, there also wasn't collateral damage in the Hulk vs Thanos fight; MCU almost never does shockwaves and never in the way DCEU does.

I don't think Thanos is blatantly not as strong or durable as carol. Even looking at the headbutt all that proves is Thanos cant really hurt Carol with his striking/strenth, not that Carol can hurt him.

What if they are both super durable and not strong enough to harm each other, is that not a reasonable explanation?

------------------------

I don't think DD has altogether better feats, I do think he has a few feats Thanos cant match tho; I just don't see that gap as something Stormbreaker cannot overcome.

I already told you to assume I'm granting Stormbreaker can cut DD, now demonstrate that Thor can actually hit DD with it.

I already explained, if DD is dumb enough to swing art a sword that just cut him, then I don't believe hes smart enough o dodge and deflect every Mjolnir and Strombreaker throw.

Thor accurately cleared the outriders off of cap, panther, and the hulkbuster with one throw; before the bifrost had even finished transporting him.

Did you give a reason why this isnt a viable win condition for Thor?

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FlashFyr

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#181  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies: Maybe; Thanos also took Nebulas spaceship crashing into him, so he still has comparable feats.

Nebula's ship is comparable to what?

Thor got backup after a minute, and its not like he couldn't stand.

Thanos stomped him and was repeatedly hitting him, then Cap threw Stormbreaker.

Thor wasn't out of the fight and hes been in that position and won before.

Thor stayed down for a minute? Then he lost in a fight with DD.

Because big guys alot of the time hit harder than smaller fit guys for one.

2 I understand Thor is a biological creature but hes also 1500 years old.

I know that I retained most of my high school strength even tho im less active.

I did tell you what led me to this conclusion; Fat Thor has fought 1 person... Thanos.

I think he did just as well or better than Thor with abs against that one opponent minus the sneak attack.

Big guys have more mass and it's just physics, but 20 lbs of added fat is completely negligible in a striking range that exceeds a ton. The only thing that matters under these circumstances are his muscles which have atrophy'd. He is not as strong as his prime, case closed. The fact that he fought Thanos does not prove he kept his physical stats, it only proves he had sufficient strength to fight Thanos. I have no idea who "that one opponent" is.

I understand that Thanos is slower than DD but you asked if I though Fat Thor could keep up in the gladiator match with Hulk right? I answered by showing how he was able to keep up with and dodge some of Thanos' attacks; the one person Fat Thor has fought.

That was a rhetorical question and I'd really appreciate it if we went back to stuff that's relevant to DD. As far as I see, all this Thanos talk is just a giant buffer to avoid the fact that DD has superior and relevant stats to Thor, more avenues to win, and is therefore the most likely for a majority victory.

No faith, im just looking at the speed she hit him at and what happens when she hits other things at that speed.

Yeah, what would happen is that Thanos' shack gets utterly obliterated.

I understand that there wasn't collateral damage or shockwaves, there also wasn't collateral damage in the Hulk vs Thanos fight; MCU almost never does shockwaves and never in the way DCEU does.

So you have no independent evidence, cool.

I don't think Thanos is blatantly not as strong or durable as carol. Even looking at the headbutt all that proves is Thanos cant really hurt Carol with his striking/strenth, not that Carol can hurt him.

What if they are both super durable and not strong enough to harm each other, is that not a reasonable explanation?

Carol was overpowering Thanos in their arm wrestle for the gauntlet. Thanos' attack bounced off her, which wouldn't happen if his head were as durable as her head. Hence, Thanos is blatantly not as strong or as durable as Carol. But you're harnessing some serious cognitive dissonance in saying that she hit him full blast because of her speed, yet also think he has the durability to tank a stronger object traveling at that speed when he's been knocked around by slower, weaker objects. Occam's Razor, look it up.

I already explained, if DD is dumb enough to swing art a sword that just cut him, then I don't believe hes smart enough o dodge and deflect every Mjolnir and Strombreaker throw.

Thor accurately cleared the outriders off of cap, panther, and the hulkbuster with one throw; before the bifrost had even finished transporting him.

Did you give a reason why this isnt a viable win condition for Thor?

I included throws in the 1-2 scenarios where Thor wins.

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@aqualion0 said:
@death4bunnies said:

The brute won't be able to defend from Stormbreaker at all; and Thor has learned to "Go for the head".

Thor couldn't even outspeed Thanos.

Thanos is fairly fast himself, and is a skilled warrior with a brain.

I can post a couple reaction feat from Thanos that put his reaction time at supersonic(ask and I shall provide), I can also show quite a few supersonic reactions for Thor.

Can I see 'em?

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death4bunnies

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#183 death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies: Maybe; Thanos also took Nebulas spaceship crashing into him, so he still has comparable feats.

Nebula's ship is comparable to what?

DD falling from space.

--------

Thor got backup after a minute, and its not like he couldn't stand.

Thanos stomped him and was repeatedly hitting him, then Cap threw Stormbreaker.

Thor wasn't out of the fight and hes been in that position and won before.

Thor stayed down for a minute? Then he lost in a fight with DD.

A minute was rhetorical, he was never out of the fight, just getting beat up on.

-------

Because big guys alot of the time hit harder than smaller fit guys for one.

2 I understand Thor is a biological creature but hes also 1500 years old.

I know that I retained most of my high school strength even tho im less active.

I did tell you what led me to this conclusion; Fat Thor has fought 1 person... Thanos.

I think he did just as well or better than Thor with abs against that one opponent minus the sneak attack.

Big guys have more mass and it's just physics, but 20 lbs of added fat is completely negligible in a striking range that exceeds a ton. The only thing that matters under these circumstances are his muscles which have atrophy'd. He is not as strong as his prime, case closed. The fact that he fought Thanos does not prove he kept his physical stats, it only proves he had sufficient strength to fight Thanos. I have no idea who "that one opponent" is.

EG Thor only fought Thanos, what else do you want me to compare him against?

He did just as well if not better as fat Thor in that one fight that he had.

IW Thor got drug around a ship by Thanos, then snuck attacked Thanos.

Seems like reasonable logic to me.

---------

I understand that Thanos is slower than DD but you asked if I though Fat Thor could keep up in the gladiator match with Hulk right? I answered by showing how he was able to keep up with and dodge some of Thanos' attacks; the one person Fat Thor has fought.

That was a rhetorical question and I'd really appreciate it if we went back to stuff that's relevant to DD. As far as I see, all this Thanos talk is just a giant buffer to avoid the fact that DD has superior and relevant stats to Thor, more avenues to win, and is therefore the most likely for a majority victory.

You asked I answered.

I believe we are determining if Stormbreaker can pierce Doomsday, that is relevant; as Thanos is the only High tier

Stormbreaker has pierced his pricing durability is relevant.

-----------

No faith, im just looking at the speed she hit him at and what happens when she hits other things at that speed.

Yeah, what would happen is that Thanos' shack gets utterly obliterated.

Special effects don't always live up to real life expectations, example DCEU Batman looked directly at a nukular explosion and his eyes didn't melt out, you don't see me claiming this proves its not a real nuke.

--------

I understand that there wasn't collateral damage or shockwaves, there also wasn't collateral damage in the Hulk vs Thanos fight; MCU almost never does shockwaves and never in the way DCEU does.

So you have no independent evidence, cool.

Speed and mass is independent evidence, whether you ignore it or not, I don't use environmental damage to determine force.

----------

I don't think Thanos is blatantly not as strong or durable as carol. Even looking at the headbutt all that proves is Thanos cant really hurt Carol with his striking/strenth, not that Carol can hurt him.

What if they are both super durable and not strong enough to harm each other, is that not a reasonable explanation?

Carol was overpowering Thanos in their arm wrestle for the gauntlet. Thanos' attack bounced off her, which wouldn't happen if his head were as durable as her head. Hence, Thanos is blatantly not as strong or as durable as Carol. But you're harnessing some serious cognitive dissonance in saying that she hit him full blast because of her speed, yet also think he has the durability to tank a stronger object traveling at that speed when he's been knocked around by slower, weaker objects. Occam's Razor, look it up.

Carols whole body vs one hand Ok.

PIS look it up.

--------

I already explained, if DD is dumb enough to swing art a sword that just cut him, then I don't believe hes smart enough o dodge and deflect every Mjolnir and Strombreaker throw.

Thor accurately cleared the outriders off of cap, panther, and the hulkbuster with one throw; before the bifrost had even finished transporting him.

Did you give a reason why this isnt a viable win condition for Thor?

I included throws in the 1-2 scenarios where Thor wins.

Is there a scenario where Thor doesn't throw his weapons? It seems to be a go to move, and hes learned to "go for the head"

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#184 death4bunnies  Moderator

@death4bunnies said:
@aqualion0 said:
@death4bunnies said:

The brute won't be able to defend from Stormbreaker at all; and Thor has learned to "Go for the head".

Thor couldn't even outspeed Thanos.

Thanos is fairly fast himself, and is a skilled warrior with a brain.

I can post a couple reaction feat from Thanos that put his reaction time at supersonic(ask and I shall provide), I can also show quite a few supersonic reactions for Thor.

Can I see 'em?

Oh for sure.

Leaps towards Hela and blasts apart her projectiles

Punches one of Hela's Necrosword projectiles

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Diana moves about as far, about as fast as the bullets she's faced; while unquantifiable Thor has similar feats. Here he moves about as far as Helas projectile in about the same timeframe. Helas projectiles (against surtur) have been calced to be mach 22 but I regard them as about bullet speed. Thor has also reacted to an Ultron bot blast, Reailty stone attacks, Lokis septet blast, and destroyers energy beams. Due to the variety of attacks hes defended against (tho unquantifiable) I dont think its inconsistent to believe he has some level of enhanced speed.

I have another one that I cant find where he does a flip and redirects a energy blast from a hydra soldier, super unquantifiable but still pretty fast, Ill put it in if I come across it.

Not in travel or combat speed but in reactions he seems to have some supersonic feats.

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FlashFyr

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#185  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies: DD falling from space.

I'm too sick of this point to keep arguing it.

A minute was rhetorical, he was never out of the fight, just getting beat up on.

He's still not getting up from DD.

EG Thor only fought Thanos, what else do you want me to compare him against?

He did just as well if not better as fat Thor in that one fight that he had.

No one, you said Thor kept his stats and used Thanos as evidence. Fighting Thanos is not evidence he's as strong as he was earlier, it's evidence that he's sufficiently strong for his battle against Thanos.

IW Thor got drug around a ship by Thanos, then snuck attacked Thanos.

Seems like reasonable logic to me.

How in the world is it reasonable logic to say "Thanos beat his ass and then Thor attacked Thanos from behind, meaning Thor is just as strong in EG." That's a non sequitur.

I believe we are determining if Stormbreaker can pierce Doomsday, that is relevant; as Thanos is the only High tier

Stormbreaker has pierced his pricing durability is relevant.

How many times do I have to say it: Assume I granted that Stormbreaker can cut DD.

Special effects don't always live up to real life expectations, example DCEU Batman looked directly at a nukular explosion and his eyes didn't melt out, you don't see me claiming this proves its not a real nuke.

Then don't say you're comparing it to what happens when Carol hits something at that speed. You can't just pretend there's a convenient on/off switch for effects that happen in the same scenario, then claim it's the same amount of damage.

Speed and mass is independent evidence, whether you ignore it or not, I don't use environmental damage to determine force.

Speed and mass is a shitty formula when there's a possible unaccounted factor involved (Carol holding back). The only way you rule out that possibility is with independent evidence outside of the formula so that you can legitimize it as a correct pathway to truth. But you have nothing outside of it. You can't rule out the possibility that Carol is holding back. In fact, Occam's Razor dictates that she is holding back. All you're left with is a shitty formula and I don't understand how you can't grasp how bad your epistemology is.

Carols whole body vs one hand Ok.

PIS look it up.

You really didn't see how easily Carol overpowered Thanos' arm in both pushing and pulling. An extra hand would've made no difference to Thanos; he was outclassed. PIS, cool, that brings you no closer to proving Thanos has better durability or strength.

Is there a scenario where Thor doesn't throw his weapons? It seems to be a go to move, and hes learned to "go for the head"

Yeah, the one where he attacks with regular melee and doesn't somehow get clapped by DD's reaction speed.

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@death4bunnies: Apologies for interceding but I have a few thoughts on Thor's reaction. For starters, I find the director's intentions with a character to be more convincing than unquantifiable projectiles. By that I mean, I don't think it was ever in the director's intent to put Thor at supersonic levels in terms of reaction speed. However, this is hard to determine for sure so I will look at each feat.

Leaps towards Hela and blasts apart her projectiles

I don't think Hela's blades should be compared to the much larger (iirc) ones she threw at Surtur. But I know that is not what you are claiming. Anyways, as far as this feat, I'm pretty sure the general dude (forgot his name) was capable of doing the same thing.

Punches one of Hela's Necrosword projectiles

Similar response to the former. However, correct me if I'm wrong, his arm was already in motion when she shot at him. That;s more aim blocking if anything, if that is the case.

Ultron bot blast

Correct me if I'm wrong again, but this too looks like he was already in motion.

Reailty stone attacks

This one seems rather unimpressive to me. His body seems to be falling at speeds comparable to the blast. This is with Thor never displaying supersonic movement speed.

Lokis septet

IIRC, Hawkeye was able to replicate this. Albeit, from a farther distance.

destroyers energy beams

This one may be the most impressive. Thor did see him charge it up, but it looks like Thor reacted after it was shot. Does this beam have some impressive displays of speed?

With all this said, I go back to my original point of me considering the director's intent. Not only this, but it seems that Thor can react to something like this only once at a time. Unlike someone such as WW, who I know you were not making a direct comparison to. As you may know, it is considerably more difficult to keep up a noteworthy reaction speed. In conclusion, I would put Thor's reaction speed above human capabilities for sure. But not bullet speed nor supersonic.

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#187  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies: DD falling from space.

I'm too sick of this point to keep arguing it.

Ok

----------

A minute was rhetorical, he was never out of the fight, just getting beat up on.

He's still not getting up from DD.

Not based off that Thanos stomp.

--------

EG Thor only fought Thanos, what else do you want me to compare him against?

He did just as well if not better as fat Thor in that one fight that he had.

No one, you said Thor kept his stats and used Thanos as evidence. Fighting Thanos is not evidence he's as strong as he was earlier, it's evidence that he's sufficiently strong for this battle.

Fat Thor didn't have any other showings.

---------

IW Thor got drug around a ship by Thanos, then snuck attacked Thanos.

Seems like reasonable logic to me.

How in the world is it reasonable logic to say "Thanos beat his ass and then Thor attacked Thanos from behind, meaning Thor is just as strong in EG." That's a non sequitur.

Thanos beat Ragnork Thors ass in the begging of infinity war, at the end of infinity war Thor snuck Thanos, in EG Fat Thor faced Thanos head on and was doing as well of better than before. Based off his fights hes just as powerful.

You seem to be basing him being weaker on how he looks rather than feats.

------------

I believe we are determining if Stormbreaker can pierce Doomsday, that is relevant; as Thanos is the only High tier

Stormbreaker has pierced his pricing durability is relevant.

How many times do I have to say it: Assume I granted that Stormbreaker can cut DD.

Im cool with that, but then you respond to Thanos' durability. I cant in good faith let that stand without a rebuttal.

---------

Special effects don't always live up to real life expectations, example DCEU Batman looked directly at a nukular explosion and his eyes didn't melt out, you don't see me claiming this proves its not a real nuke.

Then don't say you're comparing it to what happens when Carol hits something at that speed. You can't just pretend there's a convenient on/off switch for effects that happen in the same scenario, then claim it's the same amount of damage.

Im saying if Thanos was between her and the ship Cm wouldn't have busted it as easy.

Im also saying that special effects don't always line up. I can give a ton of examples.

CM Punches her fist into her and and causes a giant shock wave, when she punches Thanos she doesn't.

Superman doesn't always make mach cones when he flies above mach speed, and Shazam never makes mach cones when he clearly surpasses mach speed.

The fact that Shazam doesn't make mach cone in the DCEU but instead makes a blur effect doesn't take away from his feat. The special effects are just different.

------

Speed and mass is independent evidence, whether you ignore it or not, I don't use environmental damage to determine force.

Speed and mass is a shitty formula when there's a possible unaccounted factor involved (Carol holding back). The only way you rule out that possibility is with independent evidence outside of the formula so that you can legitimize it as a correct pathway to truth. You have nothing outside of it. All you're left with is a shitty formula and I don't understand how you can't grasp how bad your epistemology is.

You seem to be getting upset so this is my last post to you, remember this is all in good fun; I just use it as mental exercise.

Ive given my reasons I don't think Carols holding back, and even if she was she's never met Thanos how did she know how much force to use?

Irregarless of her mind set I can measure her speed(at least mach 1) and her mass; its not a random shitty formula its physics, I think your problem is with Issac Newton not me.

--------------------

Carols whole body vs one hand Ok.

PIS look it up.

You really didn't see how easily Carol overpowered Thanos' arm in both pushing and pulling. An extra hand would've made no difference to Thanos. PIS, cool, that brings you no closer to proving Thanos has better durability or strength.

Yes a whole body can generally overpower one hand, the other hand would of made a difference. This is a odd position your taking here. Is it just as easy to arm wrestle some with with 2 hands as it is 1?

By PIS I was referring to your lowball that lesser characters have staggered Thanos.

---------

Is there a scenario where Thor doesn't throw his weapons? It seems to be a go to move, and hes learned to "go for the head"

Yeah, the one where he attacks with regular melee and doesn't somehow get clapped by DD's reaction speed.

Oh I see you still think DD can oneshot Thor.

Agree to disagree.

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#188  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies: Not based off that Thanos stomp.

You said yourself that DD's strikes are more powerful than Thanos' stomp. That stomp put Thor down (or at least stunned him long enough for a ground and pound). Therefore, DD's stronger strike will will put Thor down. You've gone from "I can see Thor surviving one or two hits" to a different position, it seems.

Fat Thor didn't have any other showings.

Then you have no reason to believe he kept his strength.

Thanos beat Ragnork Thors ass in the begging of infinity war, at the end of infinity war Thor snuck Thanos, in EG Fat Thor faced Thanos head on and was doing as well of better than before. Based off his fights hes just as powerful.

You seem to be basing him being weaker on how he looks rather than feats.

You're still throwing non sequiturs. That sneak attack is irrelevant to head on fights and physical stats. Thanos beating Ragnarok Thor's ass off screen with the Black Order (Hell they could've done all the work for all you know) tells you nothing about Thor's EG durability or whether he kept it from IW. Yes, Fat Thor did very well with Thanos. Does that mean he kept his physicals? Nope. You have no comparison with fit Thor. Does it mean he stands a chance against stronger, faster DD? Nope.

Im saying if Thanos was between her and the ship Cm wouldn't have busted it as easy.

If a sponge were between her and the ship she wouldn't have busted it as easy, but she's still busting the ship and the sponge. What's your point?

Im also saying that special effects don't always line up. I can give a ton of examples.

CM Punches her fist into her and and causes a giant shock wave, when she punches Thanos she doesn't.

Superman doesn't always make mach cones when he flies above mach speed, and Shazam never makes mach cones when he clearly surpasses mach speed.

The fact that Shazam doesn't make mach cone in the DCEU but instead makes a blur effect doesn't take away from his feat. The special effects are just different.

Cool, and like I asked before, how do you demonstrate that CM really laid it on Thanos? I wouldn't claim Shazam is hitting mach speeds if I can't verify it with some other piece of evidence like lightning, distance divided by time, etc.

Ive given my reasons I don't think Carols holding back, and even if she was she's never met Thanos how did she know how much force to use?

Irregarless of her mind set I can measure her speed(at least mach 1) and her mass; its not a random shitty formula its physics, I think your problem is with Issac Newton not me.

Your one reason for thinking Carol isn't holding back is when she said "I'm gonna kill him," which does not tell you how, when, or whether she actually means it. That reason has no legs. And if you're asking how she knew how much force to use to keep Thanos alive, she blasted him with her energy beam when entering. She's had her powers for decades and should be very experienced in how much force her beams produce, especially in zero g environments. I have no problem with Isaac Newton, I have a problem with you using his formula while ignoring a massive possible factor where the formula would be useless. Kinetics do not work under every circumstance; go take a look at what happens when you use it on quantum mechanics, or just someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it.

Yes a whole body can generally overpower one hand, the other hand would of made a difference. This is a odd position your taking here. Is it just as easy to arm wrestle some with with 2 hands as it is 1?

No, I'm saying she outclassed his strength so much that Thanos using his other hand would've been pointless. Go watch the scene again, Carol doesn't even struggle to put Thanos on his knees. That's what happened; if you disagree, demonstrate how Thanos would stalemate her with both hands.

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#189  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@boc said:

@death4bunnies: Apologies for interceding but I have a few thoughts on Thor's reaction. For starters, I find the director's intentions with a character to be more convincing than unquantifiable projectiles. By that I mean, I don't think it was ever in the director's intent to put Thor at supersonic levels in terms of reaction speed. However, this is hard to determine for sure so I will look at each feat.

No apologies needed friend, I respect your opinions.

Leaps towards Hela and blasts apart her projectiles

I don't think Hela's blades should be compared to the much larger (iirc) ones she threw at Surtur. But I know that is not what you are claiming. Anyways, as far as this feat, I'm pretty sure the general dude (forgot his name) was capable of doing the same thing.

Ya I believe his name was Hogun he was part of the Warriors three, he defiantly deflected a few necro blades. I think he also has some kinda enhanced speed.

Punches one of Hela's Necrosword projectiles

Similar response to the former. However, correct me if I'm wrong, his arm was already in motion when she shot at him. That;s more aim blocking if anything, if that is the case.

It was a super fast scene, she was fighting with projectiles and holding swords, Id consider it aim blocking from very close in the middle of a fight.

Ultron bot blast

Correct me if I'm wrong again, but this too looks like he was already in motion.

I mean he kinda already had his hand up, but you can see the blast charge and fire crazy fast, and the bot didn't have Thors attention until the bolt was fired.

Reailty stone attacks

This one seems rather unimpressive to me. His body seems to be falling at speeds comparable to the blast. This is with Thor never displaying supersonic movement speed.

This blast travelled way farther than the distance from Thor to the ground, also there clearly is some amount of slo motion going on here

Lokis septet

IIRC, Hawkeye was able to replicate this. Albeit, from a farther distance.

Thats how I remember it also, but I do have a pic of Lokis scepter blast reaching low orbit within a single frame.

Ill see if I can find it, but these are so inconstant that I always just consider them bullet speed.

destroyers energy beams

This one may be the most impressive. Thor did see him charge it up, but it looks like Thor reacted after it was shot. Does this beam have some impressive displays of speed?

Not really =(, we don't ever get to see it shoot very far, but when it does shoot the most it take is 2 frames to reach its destination(never very far)

With all this said, I go back to my original point of me considering the director's intent. Not only this, but it seems that Thor can react to something like this only once at a time. Unlike someone such as WW, who I know you were not making a direct comparison to. As you may know, it is considerably more difficult to keep up a noteworthy reaction speed. In conclusion, I would put Thor's reaction speed above human capabilities for sure. But not bullet speed nor supersonic.

I feel like he can at the very least perceive and track bullets based on his showings against energy attacks, but I agree he cant really move that fast.

I think these showings are good enough to track, perceive and attack Doomsday even tho he has a clear speed disadvantage.

I also don't think DD competently uses his speed or dodging ability.

I give Thor the majority here only because he can telekinetically control his Axe; I believe if Diana could of telekinetically controlled her sword she would of solo'd DD.

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#190  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies: Not based off that Thanos stomp.

You said yourself that DD's strikes are more powerful than Thanos' stomp. That stomp put Thor down (or at least stunned him long enough for a ground and pound). Therefore, DD's stronger strike will will put Thor down. You've gone from "I can see Thor surviving one or two hits" to a different position, it seems.

Ive also said Thor is often bloodied and comes back; and also that Thor braced against the ground (like he was against Thanos) would be bad for Thor.

I don't think this is what will happen, I think when DD hits Thor he will launch him far away taking away some of that force.

Same position, Thor can survive a few hits from DD, a hit against the ground is a different circumstance and ive already conceded this.

--------

Fat Thor didn't have any other showings.

Then you have no reason to believe he kept his strength.

Expect his one showing against a opponent he previously fought. That is my reason.

---------

Thanos beat Ragnork Thors ass in the begging of infinity war, at the end of infinity war Thor snuck Thanos, in EG Fat Thor faced Thanos head on and was doing as well of better than before. Based off his fights hes just as powerful.

You seem to be basing him being weaker on how he looks rather than feats.

You're still throwing non sequiturs. That sneak attack is irrelevant to head on fights and physical stats. Thanos beating Ragnarok Thor's ass off screen with the Black Order (Hell they could've done all the work for all you know) tells you nothing about Thor's EG durability or whether he kept it from IW. Yes, Fat Thor did very well with Thanos. Does that mean he kept his physicals? Nope. Does that mean he stands a chance against stronger, faster DD? Nope.

Compared to 'Prime Thor'., Eg Thor did just as good against the same opponent. That tells me alot.

-----------

Im saying if Thanos was between her and the ship Cm wouldn't have busted it as easy.

If a sponge were between her and the ship she wouldn't have busted it as easy, but she's still busting the ship and the sponge. What's your point?
That Thanos is more durable than his ship, because he withstood a bullrush from CM and his ship didn't.

----------

Im also saying that special effects don't always line up. I can give a ton of examples.

CM Punches her fist into her and and causes a giant shock wave, when she punches Thanos she doesn't.

Superman doesn't always make mach cones when he flies above mach speed, and Shazam never makes mach cones when he clearly surpasses mach speed.

The fact that Shazam doesn't make mach cone in the DCEU but instead makes a blur effect doesn't take away from his feat. The special effects are just different.

Cool, and like I asked before, how do you demonstrate that CM really laid it on Thanos? I wouldn't claim Shazam is hitting mach speeds if I can't verify it with some other piece of evidence like lightning, distance divided by time, etc.

Speed and mass. Im sorry there is no shockwave or environmental damage, but speed and mass is how I determine force.

--------

Ive given my reasons I don't think Carols holding back, and even if she was she's never met Thanos how did she know how much force to use?

Irregarless of her mind set I can measure her speed(at least mach 1) and her mass; its not a random shitty formula its physics, I think your problem is with Issac Newton not me.

Your one reason for thinking Carol isn't holding back is when she said "I'm gonna kill him," which does not tell you how, when, or whether she actually means it. That reason has no legs. And if you're asking how she knew how much force to use to keep Thanos alive, she blasted him with her energy beam when entering. She's had her powers for decades and should be very experienced in how much force her beams produce, especially in zero g environments. I have no problem with Isaac Newton, I have a problem with you using his formula while ignoring a massive possible factor where the formula would be useless. Kinetics do not work under every circumstance; go take a look at what happens when you use it on quantum mechanics, or just someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it.

You seem to be laying the burden of proof on me, whist ignoring my previous points.

You said they didn't want to kill him because they needed the location of the stones: I reminded you that they thought the stones were still equiped to his gauntlet.

Why wouldn't she go full force against a guy that she thinks is welding the infinity gauntlet????

----------

Yes a whole body can generally overpower one hand, the other hand would of made a difference. This is a odd position your taking here. Is it just as easy to arm wrestle some with with 2 hands as it is 1?

No, I'm saying she outclassed his strength so much that Thanos using his other hand would've been pointless. Go watch the scene again, Carol doesn't even struggle to put Thanos on his knees. That's what happened; if you disagree, demonstrate how Thanos would stalemate her with both hands.

You keep putting the burden of proof on me to disprove your statements.

Prove his other hand 'wouldn't' of made a difference.

Never mind Ill do it.

Here Thanos gets his other hand on the ground and Carol Immediately stops overpowering him because hes now engaging other muscles. Bam Proof.

No Caption Provided

Here is the full video, Thanos clearly matches her strength as soon as he get his hand on the ground.

"engage the core''

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#192  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies:

Ive also said Thor is often bloodied and comes back; and also that Thor braced against the ground (like he was against Thanos) would be bad for Thor.

I don't think this is what will happen, I think when DD hits Thor he will launch him far away taking away some of that force.

Same position, Thor can survive a few hits from DD, a hit against the ground is a different circumstance and ive already conceded this.

Then DD puts Thor on the ground with one strike and then hits him one more time while he's stunned. Fight's over.

Expect his one showing against a opponent he previously fought. That is my reason.

Thanos beat Ragnork Thors ass in the begging of infinity war, at the end of infinity war Thor snuck Thanos, in EG Fat Thor faced Thanos head on and was doing as well of better than before. Based off his fights hes just as powerful.

Compared to 'Prime Thor'., Eg Thor did just as good against the same opponent. That tells me alot.

You have literally no comparison with fit Thor to fat Thor in the same kind of fight against the same opponent. Do you not understand that you cannot claim Thor did "as good" in the same kind of fight? How do you not sense your own non sequitur? This whole sneak attack thing is such bs- I stab you in the back at full health. Then I get cancer and do pretty good in a head to head with you, therefore I'm just as good a fighter as I was when I stabbed you. Oh my God, stabbing you in the back was not a fight though. It was never a fight to begin with. How in the hell could I possibly compare stabbing you in the back to fighting you head on? It's apples and oranges. Yes, I sound frustrated, sue me. You keep trying to compare a fucking assassination to a fight. And worst of all, you keep saying fat Thor did just as well, when in that assassination,Thor only used two moves.

That Thanos is more durable than. his ship, because he withstood a bullrush from CM and his ship didn't.

Prove he's more durable than his ship. Prove CM bullrushed him at the same strength. You can't do either.

Speed and mass. Im sorry there is no shockwave or environmental damage, but speed and mass is how I determine force.

You seem to be laying the burden of proof on me, whist ignoring my previous points.

You said they didn't want to kill him because they needed the location of the stones: I reminded you that they thought the stones were still equiped to his gauntlet.

Why wouldn't she go full force against a guy that she thinks is welding the infinity gauntlet????

> I have no problem with Isaac Newton, I have a problem with you using his formula while ignoring a massive possible factor where the formula would be useless. Kinetics do not work under every circumstance; go take a look at what happens when you use it on quantum mechanics, or just someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it.

Yeah, of course I'm laying the burden of proof on you because you're making positive claims and I'm making negative claims, is that a fucking joke? And if I make a point that Captain America is FTL and keeps unicorns under his shield, are you obligated to argue with me about it? No. I'm straight up never going to address points you cannot demonstrate. And that's the reason I won't provide you reasons CM didn't kill Thanos until you demonstrate that it was wholly her intention to and you've ruled out all other reasonable possibilities (like Thor wanting a word with Thanos).

Here Thanos gets his other hand on the ground and Carol Immediately stops overpowering him because hes now engaging other muscles. Bam Proof.

Oh my goodness, you are wrong about everything you just said here. The entire reason Thanos put his other hand out is because Carol put him on his knees. Easily. Hell, Thanos looked terrified right before she did it. Carol was still pushing Thanos back with his other hand to support him. She. Is. Stronger.

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#193  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies:

Ive also said Thor is often bloodied and comes back; and also that Thor braced against the ground (like he was against Thanos) would be bad for Thor.

I don't think this is what will happen, I think when DD hits Thor he will launch him far away taking away some of that force.

Same position, Thor can survive a few hits from DD, a hit against the ground is a different circumstance and ive already conceded this.

Then DD puts Thor on the ground with one strike and then hits him one more time while he's stunned. Fight's over.

I guess if Thor doesn't fight back.

----------

Expect his one showing against a opponent he previously fought. That is my reason.

Thanos beat Ragnork Thors ass in the begging of infinity war, at the end of infinity war Thor snuck Thanos, in EG Fat Thor faced Thanos head on and was doing as well of better than before. Based off his fights hes just as powerful.

Compared to 'Prime Thor'., Eg Thor did just as good against the same opponent. That tells me alot.

You have literally no comparison with fit Thor to fat Thor in the same kind of fight against the same opponent. Do you not understand that you cannot claim Thor did "as good" in the same kind of fight? How do you not sense your own non sequitur? This whole sneak attack thing is such bs- I stab you in the back at full health. Then I get cancer and do pretty good in a head to head with you, therefore I'm just as good a fighter as I was when I stabbed you. Oh my God, stabbing you in the back was not a fight though. It was never a fight to begin with. How in the hell could I possibly compare stabbing you in the back to fighting you head on? It's apples and oranges. Yes, I sound frustrated, sue me. You keep trying to compare a fucking assassination to a fight. And worst of all, you keep saying fat Thor did just as well, when in that assassination,Thor only used two moves.

Then you prove that Thor was weaker, your the one making the claim; im just saying he carries the same feats, and is just a little fatter; nothing wrong with being a large mammal.

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That Thanos is more durable than. his ship, because he withstood a bullrush from CM and his ship didn't.

Prove he's more durable than his ship. Prove CM bullrushed him at the same strength. You can't do either.

Prove that she bullrushed Thanos with less force than the ship, oh you can't. You keep trying to put the burden of proof on me to disprove your claims. I've givin my reasons that I think Carol was at full force.

---------

Speed and mass. Im sorry there is no shockwave or environmental damage, but speed and mass is how I determine force.

You seem to be laying the burden of proof on me, whist ignoring my previous points.

You said they didn't want to kill him because they needed the location of the stones: I reminded you that they thought the stones were still equiped to his gauntlet.

Why wouldn't she go full force against a guy that she thinks is welding the infinity gauntlet????

> I have no problem with Isaac Newton, I have a problem with you using his formula while ignoring a massive possible factor where the formula would be useless. Kinetics do not work under every circumstance; go take a look at what happens when you use it on quantum mechanics, or just someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it.

Yeah, of course I'm laying the burden of proof on you because you're making positive claims and I'm making negative claims, is that a fucking joke? And if I make a point that Captain America is FTL and keeps unicorns under his shield, are you obligated to argue with me about it? No. I'm straight up never going to address points you cannot demonstrate. And that's the reason I won't provide you reasons CM didn't kill Thanos until you demonstrate that it was wholly her intention to and you've ruled out all other reasonable possibilities (like Thor wanting a word with Thanos).

Pffttt, your making the claim that Carol was holding back, im using the actual motion(speed vs mass) to make my point; her mindset make no difference in the way I look at it.

As for a punch with no muscle flexing behind it we can look at other simple mechanics, like deceleration; I would consider that kind of a math fair.

I don't care if superman went full force against DD or not, I just measure his speed and mass, and I look at the other things hes hit at similar speed.

CM bullrushed Thanos in the same manner as she bullrushed those ships, your attempt to lowball this feat is very telling.

--------

Here Thanos gets his other hand on the ground and Carol Immediately stops overpowering him because hes now engaging other muscles. Bam Proof.

Oh my goodness, you are wrong about everything you just said here. The entire reason Thanos put his other hand out is because Carol put him on his knees. Easily. Hell, Thanos looked terrified right before she did it. Carol was still pushing Thanos back with his other hand to support him. She. Is. Stronger.

What Am I wrong about, she was pushing him back when he was trying to resist her with one hand, as soon as he used his whole body he stopped moving back and fucking punched her away; there is a clear difference between when hes struggling with one hand vs when he uses his whole body.

If you cant see that, then I don't know what else to tell you.

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#194  Edited By FlashFyr

@death4bunnies: I guess if Thor doesn't fight back.

If his reaction to Thanos' headbutt is anything to go by, or the stomp, he's not fighting back.

Then you prove that Thor was weaker, your the one making the claim; im just saying he carries the same feats, and is just a little fatter; nothing wrong with being a large mammal.

> Thor is a biological creature -> Biological creatures lose physical aptitude after 5 years of inactivity and major fat gain -> Thor went through 5 years of inactivity and major fat gain -> Therefore, Thor lost physical aptitude.

Deduction. You have no independent evidence to disprove this, only a bad comparison and a comparison to something you've never even seen.

Prove that she bullrushed Thanos with less force than the ship, oh you can't. You keep trying to put the burden of proof on me to disprove your claims. I've givin my reasons that I think Carol was at full force.

> Your reasons have not been demonstrated

> staying inside his shack and that shack having no collateral damage whatsoever. Seriously, a shack. A fully bloodlusted Carol would obliterate that on accident.

> You have no independent evidence to disprove this

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance; go take a look at what happens when you use it on quantum mechanics, or just someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it. <--- Here you can see a perfect example of proof.

Pffttt, your making the claim that Carol was holding back, im using the actual motion(speed vs mass) to make my point; her mindset make no difference in the way I look at it.

I don't care if superman went full force against DD or not, I just measure his speed and mass, and I look at the other things hes hit at similar speed.

CM bullrushed Thanos in the same manner as she bullrushed those ships, your attempt to lowball this feat is very telling.

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

What Am I wrong about, she was pushing him back when he was trying to resist her with one hand, as soon as he used his whole body he stopped moving back and fucking punched her away; there is a clear difference between when hes struggling with one hand vs when he uses his whole body.

If you cant see that, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Oh no, I see a difference, I see that Carol is still overpowering him and I see that you cannot demonstrate Thanos would stalemate her with both hands. And I see that this point has nothing to do with DD clapping Thor because you're just arguing to argue, like with numerous other points that I had to end for you.

EDIT: Correct "kinetics" for "Kinematics"

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death4bunnies

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#195  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies: I guess if Thor doesn't fight back.

If his reaction to Thanos' headbutt is anything to go by, or the stomp, he's not fighting back.

Then you prove that Thor was weaker, your the one making the claim; im just saying he carries the same feats, and is just a little fatter; nothing wrong with being a large mammal.

> Thor is a biological creature -> Biological creatures lose physical aptitude after 5 years of inactivity and major fat gain -> Thor went through 5 years of inactivity and major fat gain -> Therefore, Thor lost physical aptitude.

Deduction. You have no independent evidence to disprove this, only a bad comparison and a comparison to something you've never even seen.

Prove that she bullrushed Thanos with less force than the ship, oh you can't. You keep trying to put the burden of proof on me to disprove your claims. I've givin my reasons that I think Carol was at full force.

> Your reasons have not been demonstrated

> staying inside his shack and that shack having no collateral damage whatsoever. Seriously, a shack. A fully bloodlusted Carol would obliterate that on accident.

> You have no independent evidence to disprove this

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance; go take a look at what happens when you use it on quantum mechanics, or just someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it. <--- Here you can see a perfect example of proof.

Pffttt, your making the claim that Carol was holding back, im using the actual motion(speed vs mass) to make my point; her mindset make no difference in the way I look at it.

I don't care if superman went full force against DD or not, I just measure his speed and mass, and I look at the other things hes hit at similar speed.

CM bullrushed Thanos in the same manner as she bullrushed those ships, your attempt to lowball this feat is very telling.

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

> Kinetics do not work under every circumstance

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

What Am I wrong about, she was pushing him back when he was trying to resist her with one hand, as soon as he used his whole body he stopped moving back and fucking punched her away; there is a clear difference between when hes struggling with one hand vs when he uses his whole body.

If you cant see that, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Oh no, I see a difference, I see that Carol is still overpowering him and I see that you cannot demonstrate Thanos would stalemate her with both hands. And I see that this point has nothing to do with DD clapping Thor because you're just arguing to argue, like with numerous other points that I had to end for you.

EDIT: Correct "kinetics" for "Kinematics"

Agree to disagree.

I think physics are always in play, different rules for super tiny particles(at a quantum level) but rules none the less.

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@death4bunnies: I think physics are always in play, different rules for super tiny particles(at a quantum level) but rules none the less.

I just showed you a case where the acceleration and mass of a living object don't produce the full force / potential of force.

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

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@death4bunnies:

Ya I believe his name was Hogun he was part of the Warriors three, he defiantly deflected a few necro blades. I think he also has some kinda enhanced speed.

I'd agree. However, I wouldn't accredit him with supersonic reactions.

It was a super fast scene, she was fighting with projectiles and holding swords, Id consider it aim blocking from very close in the middle of a fight.

Yes, still impressive, but again I wouldn't call it supersonic reactions. As you pointed out, his arm moves the same distance as the blade in the same amount of time. MCU Thor hasn't displayed movement speed at supersonic levels. A human can move their arms at around 100 mph (high end as this is from professional pitchers.) I would say Thor is above human capabilities in this aspect, but that would still be below supersonic. It's impressive though that he can react to something of those speeds despite being very close.

I mean he kinda already had his hand up, but you can see the blast charge and fire crazy fast, and the bot didn't have Thors attention until the bolt was fired.

I tried watching it in slow motion, and I can't come to any other interpretation besides his hand already being in motion. From what I saw he threw his hand in that direction with the intent of blocking that laser. My guess is Thor saw the bot in his peripheral vision, and blocked the laser he knew would come. That's an insane feat of accuracy (being as it hits the bot), but I do think that is what was being portrayed at the moment.

This blast travelled way farther than the distance from Thor to the ground, also there clearly is some amount of slo motion going on here

Oh, of course. But I was referring more to the blast that passes over him as he slides down. First off, we see the blast come, then Thor takes two steps and slides down. Not to be nitpicky, but a bullet would have definitely reached him by that time. But that's kind of iffy so let me put it this way: when the camera focuses on Thor sliding, we see the blast going over him. It is moving faster, but that doesn't say much as Thor doesn't have super speed and he was mid-fall. A super sonic blast would be moving much faster in comparison to his slide.

Thats how I remember it also, but I do have a pic of Lokis scepter blast reaching low orbit within a single frame.

Ill see if I can find it, but these are so inconstant that I always just consider them bullet speed.

No need, I know what you are referring to. It's due to that inconsistency (MCU Hawkeye isn't a bullet timer) that I don't think we should accredit Thor to having bullet speed reactions based on it.

Not really =(, we don't ever get to see it shoot very far, but when it does shoot the most it take is 2 frames to reach its destination(never very far)

Well since we can't really put a number on it (and the fact that it seems similar to all the blasts we see him block) I wouldn't say it was supersonic. That's based on my interpretations of his other reaction feats.

I feel like he can at the very least perceive and track bullets based on his showings against energy attacks, but I agree he cant really move that fast.

I think these showings are good enough to track, perceive and attack Doomsday even tho he has a clear speed disadvantage.

Based on my interpretations of his feats, I wouldn't say he has supersonic level reactions. Whereas DD consistently punches at supersonic speeds.

I also don't think DD competently uses his speed or dodging ability.

I'd have to disagree here. He frequently was keeping up with 2 enemies who travel at mach speeds. The times they did manage to tag him, were when he was caught off guard whilst dealing with the other enemy. There were many things he dodged that he probably would have tanked, so from what it seems, he is a mindless brute who heavily focuses on self-perseverance.

I give Thor the majority here only because he can telekinetically control his Axe; I believe if Diana could of telekinetically controlled her sword she would of solo'd DD.

Due to his tk over the axe, I would say that Thor has a possibility of winning. I wouldn't say he takes the majority though. Cutting DD is the only way I see Thor winning (lightning would amp him and his blunt force durability is above Thor's strikes.) And even that is a low chance based on DD's awareness and self-preservation.

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death4bunnies

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#198  Edited By death4bunnies  Moderator

@boc said:

@death4bunnies:

-------

As to Thors reaction speed I guess you just have a higher standard for supersonic reactions, but I appreciate that you think Thor has some level of 'enhanced' speed.

-------

I also don't think DD competently uses his speed or dodging ability.

I'd have to disagree here. He frequently was keeping up with 2 enemies who travel at mach speeds. The times they did manage to tag him, were when he was caught off guard whilst dealing with the other enemy. There were many things he dodged that he probably would have tanked, so from what it seems, he is a mindless brute who heavily focuses on self-perseverance.

I think they both tagged DD without distraction or help, Superman got the first punch on DD before WW or Batman even showed up, and WW cut Doomsdays arm off while Superman was messing with Lois.

I agree he showed some dodging and reacting that were super high tier, but other times he ran head first into damage; like when he swung at Diana's sword after it already cut him once. Also Thor has Mjolnir and Stormbreaker here, that alot of TK weapons in the field to keep aware of.

-----------

I give Thor the majority here only because he can telekinetically control his Axe; I believe if Diana could of telekinetically controlled her sword she would of solo'd DD.

Due to his tk over the axe, I would say that Thor has a possibility of winning. I wouldn't say he takes the majority though. Cutting DD is the only way I see Thor winning (lightning would amp him and his blunt force durability is above Thor's strikes.) And even that is a low chance based on DD's awareness and self-preservation.

I can respect that.

-------------

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#199 death4bunnies  Moderator

@flashfyr said:

@death4bunnies: I think physics are always in play, different rules for super tiny particles(at a quantum level) but rules none the less.

I just showed you a case where the acceleration and mass of a living object don't produce the full force / potential of force.

> someone throwing a fast punch with no muscle flexion behind it

Dude the speed and mass equation is still a base line.

If there is a force that adds to that, like say musculature or propulsion then add that.

If there is a reason that the force didn't fully translate to the object getting hit, like say a glancing blow then there is reason to subtract the missing/absorbed/redirected energy.

Im not saying other things can not be factored in on the plus side or the minus side; hell we can factor in wind speed and change the equation; Im simply saying Thanos survived a Bullrush from Captian Marvel and your doing your best to try to downplay that feat.

Its not like Im saying she hit him with the force of a MOAB, just that she hit him with equatable force as DD took when he was bullrushed by Superman.