Emperor Valkorion (KOTFE) vs. Yoda

*All out fight

*Duel takes place on neutral ground

vs.

@shootingnova@thevivas@zapan87@darthant66@i_like_swords@dccomicsrule2011@eisenfauste@aurbere@cs_zoltan@silentbat@cis

Yoda

Not enough info on Valkorion for me to make a judgement

Depends on the starting distance. Valkorion is definitely more powerful and at a sufficient range he could win through Force Power bombardment, but he's going to die if they start at close range.

It's debetable whether or not Valkorion is more powerful, but Yoda's definitely more skilled. He'll win a majority.

@wollfmyth209 said:

This. And I'm leaning no for the underlined, so yeah Yoda.

I'm doubting Valkorion is 'definitely' above Yoda as a force wielder. Yoda's faster and much more skilled. He'd win.

After seeing an array of seriously powerful one-shot victims for Valkorion and him pretty much effortlessly blocking lightsabers bare-handed multiple times in succession, I'm going to say his power feats are better. Not substantially, but better. Still, I doubt his Deflection could keep up with the sheer speed of Yoda's aggressive lightsaber flurries at close range.

@shootingnova:

After seeing an array of seriously powerful one-shot victims for Valkorion

Like? I didn't see Valk one-shot anybody Yoda couldn't, if he's so incliend to.

and him pretty much effortlessly blocking lightsabers bare-handed multiple times in succession,

And Yoda blocked the lightning of Sidious which could bend lightsabers, and people far and away inferior to Yoda canonically have done similar.

I'm going to say his power feats are better. Not substantially, but better.

And I'm going to say one-shotting armies, moving CIS transport ships like toys, forcing back tanks, lifting hundreds of Droidekas, dominating Asajj, countering Dooku easily, supporting entire ships easily on a Dark Side Nexus, and rivalling Darth Sidious is at least on par with Valkorion's power feats. And Yoda's better in every other way, so I'm definitely lending him a majority.

RotS Sidious' Lightning is still more impressive than Valkorion's imo. Knocking out Yoda > Knocking out pre-prime Arcann. Killing Mace Windu > Killing post-prime Marr.

The lightning wasn't what killed Mace, it was the fall, according to a few sources.

@i_like_swords: Torturing Maul > killing Marr. Marr's death was anticlimactic, tbh.

Really? Well thanks for the Windu wank material :p

Still Sidious was overpowering him through Vaapad while throwing the fight!

Val stomps. Skill is meaningless.

<spoiler>If you refuse his offer, Arcann draws his saber and attacks Val. Who blocks every strike. Bare handed.</spoiler>

Valkorion.

Valkorion beats Yoda - and then Palpatine.

Valkorion wins in an epic fight. Val has superior force abilities/knowledge. In my opinion skill with a lightsaber is overrated in battles between incredibly strong force users. Although I will acknowledge what Nova said and agree that Yoda would have an advantage in close quarters combat.

Halloweenies

Yoda would stomp this if he can manage to close the distance fast enough. I think that Valkorion can overpower Yoda with the Force, though. It just depends on who strikes first, I suppose.

@darthant66: As we ALL know, Valkorion is SOOOOOO much better than Yoda and palps, And ONLYRevan can compete with him, you know what, Wollf was right (shocking I know) You really do see Revan as the Ultimate and all powerful...

The hell? Where did I say Valkorion was far more powerful than Yoda / Palpatine? :\ Simply stating I believe Valkorion is the more powerful of the three based on the evidence available at the time doesn't warrant the type of BS response you just did, kek. And what does Revan have to do with this at all?

@darthant66 said:

Saying Valkorion beats yoda and Palpatine (Palpatine is particular) is kinda absurd when you consider palpatine has been confirmed to be the most powerful sith of all time. This reason this connects to Revan he directly competes with the Sith emperor (pre prime) in the Revan novel therefore you definition ally are putting Revan on the Same level with someone like yoda for instance....I ilike Revan and respect his power, but good lord man if you tell me Revan>Yoda....we need a intervention.

Valkorion is certainly more powerful, but with Yoda's superior speed and skill he can win this.

@themuser: Saying Valkorion beats yoda and Palpatine (Palpatine is particular) is kinda absurd when you consider palpatine has been confirmed to be the most powerful sith of all time. This reason this connects to Revan he directly competes with the Sith emperor (pre prime) in the Revan novel therefore you definition ally are putting Revan on the Same level with someone like yoda for instance....I ilike Revan and respect his power, but good lord man if you tell me Revan>Yoda....we need a intervention.

1. Valkorion is the Sith Emperor's most powerful incarnation as of October 2015.
2. Valkorion is not a Sith. He isn't restricted by quotes saying Palpatine is the best.
3. The fact Revan can compete doesn't mean Palpatine or Yoda can't do the same.
4. Valkorion can beat Yoda - yet still beat Revan easier. Yoda > Revan, kek

@darthant66: His feats aren't exactly superior to Palpatine's. TOR seems to be specifically doing everything in their power to make Valkorion better than Palpy and Yoda.

They are, though. The only thing left for debate is DE Palpatine vs Valkorion, in which I'm currently undecided. Majority of KMC has already concluded Valkorion > ROTS Palpatine. Time for CV to do the same. And indeed, Drew specifically said he wrote the Revan novel to show that Revan was facing a threat unlike the galaxy had ever seen before - including Palpatine.

Not really.

And indeed, Drew specifically said he wrote the Revan novel to show that Revan was facing a threat unlike the galaxy had ever seen before - including Palpatine.

Sidious comes after Vitiate in a chronological order. If you're referring to in the time they were invented, then yeah.

lol

Star Wars nerd rage!!!! Loving it!!

@wollfmyth209: Nah, Drew agreed with the notion that Vitiate in the novel was a madder, more nihilistic, and more powerful version of Palpatine. Not that Drew is really an authority on Palpatine, but just saying.

Anyways, Valkorion subdues the green freak.

@xsupremeskillzx: Drew also thought Meetra > Revan and Malak > Revan as a duelist. It's quite obvious the guy has no idea what he's talking about. I'd rather take several objective sources, than one subjective one.

lol, Karness Muur was stated by third-person omniscient sources (ie. more reliable than Drew) to be a power unlike anything Vader had ever seen before, including post-RotS Palpatine, but that doesn't mean the square root of jack sh!t.

Really? I'm inclined to put Arcann above Dooku, and Valkorion destroyed him. And as much as I'd like to say Yoda would do the same to Tyranus by virtue of powerscaling, several sources suggest otherwise.

And Yoda blocked the lightning of Sidious which could bend lightsabers,

Actually, no. The one source in which Sidious did this was in the RotS novel, and in that, Yoda just gets plainly overwhelmed by Palpatine's Lightning.

and people far and away inferior to Yoda canonically have done similar.

Examples being?

And I'm going to say one-shotting armies,

I'm going to say that collapsing the Dark Temple in an extremely weakened state of a substantially pre-prime incarnation, and on the verge of death, is probably a better showing.

moving CIS transport ships like toys,

I'm pretty sure somebody like Vaylin could do this. She's destroyed some enormous objects with ease.

forcing back tanks

Same as above.

lifting hundreds of Droidekas,

The Dark Temple feat is better.

dominating Asajj, countering Dooku easily,

Please tell me you don't believe this is out of Valkorion's reach, because he's done better. I mean, dominating Asajj is something even Vitiate could do without a gesture, never mind Valkorion. Countering Dooku? A considerably pre-prime Vitiate was able to render his Imperial Guards nearly immune to Revan's Force attacks.

supporting entire ships easily on a Dark Side Nexus,

Yeah, that's pretty pitiful in comparison to the Dark Temple feat.

and rivalling Darth Sidious is at least on par with Valkorion's power feats.

Some sources depict otherwise, including the most recent one to my knowledge (Star Wars Ultimate). I'm also not even sure how Sidious as of RotS and Valkorion compare. And the rest of it definitely isn't "at least on par".

And Yoda's better in every other way, so I'm definitely lending him a majority.

Well, he doesn't have as much class.

@darthant66: if Valkorian isn't Sith then what is he?

@shootingnova: lol, Karness Muur was stated by third-person omniscient sources (ie. more reliable than Drew) to be a power unlike anything Vader had ever seen before, including post-RotS Palpatine, but that doesn't mean the square root of jack sh!t.

Uh, you should actually read the posts you are responding to for a change, bud. I was agreeing with Wollf that the TOR people are intentionally trying to make Vitiate look more powerful than Palpatine - which is true. Your comment is so hilariously off-topic that it looks genuinely embarrassing.

The emperor / former emperor of the Eternal Empire. :\ You don't need to be a Sith/Jedi to use the light/dark side. There are countless other factions / philosophies (i.e. Nightsisters, Order of Revan, etc.)

@darthant66: The point is that writing somebody to be "a force X character or the galaxy has never seen before" actually doesn't mean much since it's blatantly overused to hype characters who haven't had the time needed to build up feats.

By the way, where's the quote Drew made for this:

Drew agreed with the notion that Vitiate in the novel was a madder, more nihilistic, and more powerful version of Palpatine.

Please don't tell me you asked that question to him too lol

@shootingnova: The point is that writing somebody to be "a force X character or the galaxy has never seen before" actually doesn't mean much since it's blatantly overused to hype characters who haven't had the time needed to build up feats.

Given I never made the argument, cool. I disagree though.

Please don't tell me you asked that question to him too lol

Skillz did. He posted it on KMC. Ask him / find it, tbh.

@darthant66: I see, I always thought he was proper Sith, you know, the fact that he lead the Sith Empire ect ect...

@shootingnova: You're doing God's work, ngl.

You just admitted you were using that to say Drew wrote Vitiate to be more powerful than Palpatine. My point is that Muur received the same accolade from a canonical, third-person omniscient (and thus more reliable) source, but it's obvious the writer didn't intend for him to be more powerful than Palpatine, just different.

I'll give a proper response Monday since I can only use my phone atm and I'm at Youmacon (anime/manga convention). So I'll try and do a better job of explaining things in defense of Valkorian when I can do more than type a few autocorrected words.

*facepalms* I was referring to an email he wrote - not whatever accolade you're thinking of. There's more to the email than just "a force X character or the galaxy has never seen before," lawl

@darthant66: That's not what you said before at all, but whatever.

Hasn't Valkorion one-shot Revan, Marr, and Arcann? He's pretty up there.

@shootingnova said:

I'm inclined to put Arcann above Dooku

Based on what, if you don't mind me asking?

At this rate, SWTOR will create characters stronger than even The Ones.

Volkorian based on what I've read/heard.