Telepathic battle only, no Phoenix or telekinesis allowed. Morals off. I always see people stating that Jean would win but I've never see Jean have better telepathic feats than Frost. I know in a regular fight Jean would win b/c she is more diverse than Emma but in a telepathic battle my money is on Emma. Emma can't use diamond form for more than 30 seconds (after using 30 seconds she must wait 5mins to use again).
Round 1: With diamond limitation
Round 2: No diamond form straight up telepathic battle.
@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: didn't she do so with the Phoenix? Can I see some feats? From what I've been reading (started reading not too long ago) Emma has better.telepathy feats
@masterkungfu: This is what I'm thinking. Jean has more psionic energy but Emma has better skill and is she still an omega level telepath? Emma's telepathy feats have been more impressive than Jean's (Jean is no slouch either). Yes comic characters say Jean is top telepath or around there but batman says WW is the best fighter in the world but that doesn't mean anything without feats.
Jean, this has been done to death, and Jean won every time. In a world full of telepaths when Xavier was king, he had one rival, his top pupil, Jean Grey. He'd known the moment he met her that she was more powerful so the only thing he had over her was skill, when he was depowered, she was top telepath which is one part power, one part skill. She surpassed him thereafter, and as I mentioned she was already more powerful than he was which would mean the combination of her power and skill placed her above him. Emma, although very powerful and skilled is not in Jeans league and admitted herself Jean is the most gifted psi she has ever met.
@candy_cindy: @sophia89: teen Jean is not the current version of Jean Grey, just like none of the other O5 are current versions of themselves they are time displaced versions of characters. Current Jean is still in the White Hot Room.
@lordofallhumans: I Know but I say she’s current because she's the one currently in the comics and not WPOTC who haven't been shown for a long time now.
She was just in AVX, and manipulated an alternate reality after that. Teen Jean is only Jean in the sense that she is her past, current Jean Grey is not a teen she is one with the Phoenix. The OP said no Phoenix, suggesting the Jean being used is adult Jean.
@lordofallhumans: OMG you do understand that we weren't using teen jean in the main topic right? because in the main topic adult jean wins as we said and as I would like to tell you I know the difference of teen jean and the adult Jean that we all Knew and where the bloody hell she is and as i said before i label teen jean as current because she's in the main books unlike WPOTC and not some hallucination that cray cray P5 Cyclops sees before he was defeated by an equally cray witch & the red head orphan.
@candy_cindy: you said current Jean while referring to teen Jean before you edited your post, this would suggest you didn't know the difference. Current Jean is the Phoenix, regardless of how often she has been shown, and a hallucination would not have been able to give Scott real insight on what to do with the Phoenix. She was in AVX, especially since the entire story was about people using her very essence to fuel the story, sine she is one with the Phoenix.
Jean. We can argue feats and all the reasons Emma should take it under certain conditions..the gap between their last battle and now brings a different Emma to the table..but until its shown on panel, there's nothing that really undoes Emma's loss in a straight up confrontation.
@koays: You can bring any Emma to the table you want. Say for instance a Phoenix empowered Emma, and even a non-Phoenix empowered Jean will win as shown on panel. Emma's increase in feats while Jean has been gone don't indicate the battle will go any different than their last encounter when Jean smashed all her defenses (including diamond form) and basically folded Emma's mind up with her own threatening to make her relive the agony of losing her students, leaving her a broken crying mess.
@lordofallhumans: Lol, your not gonna pick this fight with me this time. Lol and I'm not gonna take that Phoenix force bait either, not with the hairs I'd have to pull to explain away yanking out the Phoenix Force. Emma's increase in feats makes it more then plausible that Jean can't beat Emma in the exact same manor, Emma's been prepping feats are some of the best feats among psychics and she's been prepping for this fight since at least Endsong...but I'm not going to say that Emma can beat her in a straight out fight. Like I said the gap on panel was to decisive to argue against, its like how Emma should be able to beat Storm but you can't even argue about it because the panel says different.
@lordofallhumans: For crying out loud I used the adult jean in the topic, Prove that I edited my post about using teen jean on the main topic because I NEVER DID the only reason that edited is shown in comment is because I added a quote that Emma has used which was "At least we agree on half of that." when she was referring jean as a sacred cow.IF you really think that I edited using teen jean well the poof of burden is on you not me go and ask moderators or something to find out and prove me wrong I dare you. Again Please understand that the sole reason I state teen jean as current to Sophia because that's how we see her regardless of who the bloody current redhead is it's our opinion to view her as such and I definitely don't need lessons from you dear.
Adult Jean is more skilled/powerful than Emma, this was stated by Emma herself and I challenge anybody to give me a feat of Emma that jean hasn't or can't replicate with more finesse.
@candy_cindy: and the sole reason I keep correcting you is because your view of her being current is wrong, so spare me with the juvenile tantrum and Jean insults, you are wrong teen Jean is not current Jean as she is a past version of Jean and there was no reason to even mention her, within the context of this thread unless you were confused about what a current character is, which was clearly the case.
@lordofallhumans: I have the right to view her whatever I want simple as that don't like it then don't bother with it dear. I made two things clear I answered the topic and stated adult jean wins I made a comment regarding TJ with Sophia which was a side comment and I called TJ current because she viewed her as current because she wouldn't even state peak form & current if she was referring to WPOTC.
@lordofallhumans: did you try to understand what I said? Sophia used teen jean as current so as a reply I used the same so she would understand what I'm trying to say. I'm using her as current to establish a conversation that she would get right off the bat and not mistaking it for the peak that she also used.
@candy_cindy: I understood that's why I tagged both of you in my first response regarding what it means to be current Jean Grey. You then went on to say you refer to teen Jean as current based on her current activities, which does not make her current 616 Jean Grey as we all know where she is currently. You excused that by saying White Phoenix hasn't been seen in a long time, which isn't true, she spoke directly to Scott and was shown at the end of AVX and fixed a broken alternate reality after AVX.
It's been stated multiple times that jean and emma are almost equal without jean using pf. And without them they have the same level of feats.
not really... jean has been stated to be the most powerful psi on a few occasions, and charles himself sometimes says jean has done things that shouldnt be possible. Nothing of this sort can be said for emma. Also jean seems to have the better feats such as bypassing TP resistance multiple times, being able to fully enter xavier's mind even while emma got stuck at the first line of defense, to name a few
@marvelfan1992: "not really... jean has been stated to be the most powerful psi on a few occasions,"
No that would be xavier.
"and charles himself sometimes says jean has done things that shouldnt be possible."
Like what? Like when? Charles has better feats than jean and that includes beating her as onslaught
"Nothing of this sort can be said for emma."
And once again emma frost has been stated to be on jeans level more than once.
"Also jean seems to have the better feats such as bypassing TP resistance multiple times, being able to fully enter xavier's mind even while emma got stuck at the first line of defense, to name a few"
I believe there are more accolades but for now this is what I have. jean being stated as "arguably the most powerful telepath in the world" and "2nd only to xavier". No such claims have been made for emma
Gallery
jean bypassing TP resistance of juggernaut even though his helmet makes him immune
Emma calling jean the most gifted psi she has ever met. She knows xavier very well and hates jean. She would not say this unless its true.
Xavier saying jean did the impossible
Gallery
Jean held Xavier's entire conciousness in her mind then later split it into pieces and placed a little bit in the minds of every mutant on earth. She also completely stomped emma when she found out about the affair, and like I said earlier she was able to enter xavier's mind while emma wasn't. She was not using the phoenix until Planet X so that was all her. She also used TP on emma while she was in diamon form under rubble before, despite supposedly being immune to TP (cant find scan atm)
I believe there are more accolades but for now this is what I have. jean being stated as "arguably the most powerful telepath in the world" and "2nd only to xavier". No such claims have been made for emma
Gallery
jean bypassing TP resistance of juggernaut even though his helmet makes him immune
Emma calling jean the most gifted psi she has ever met. She knows xavier very well and hates jean. She would not say this unless its true.
Xavier saying jean did the impossible
Gallery
Jean held Xavier's entire conciousness in her mind then later split it into pieces and placed a little bit in the minds of every mutant on earth. She also completely stomped emma when she found out about the affair, and like I said earlier she was able to enter xavier's mind while emma wasn't. She was not using the phoenix until Planet X so that was all her. She also used TP on emma while she was in diamon form under rubble before, despite supposedly being immune to TP (cant find scan atm)
Gallery
compared to jean
stalemated exodus who stomped jean 3 times.jean with the pf couldnt handle xaviers mind yet exodus did the exact same feat no problem after xavier was shot in the head.
Gallery
took our rachel
Gallery
top 5
Gallery
No jean had the pf. Had you read morrisons run you would know jean entire arc was stating how she had the pf or rather it never left her
weaklings like psylocke have done the same to juggernaut
stalemated exodus who stomped jean 3 times.jean with the pf couldnt handle xaviers mind yet exodus did the exact same feat no problem after xavier was shot in the head.
IIRC Exodus only encountered Jean twice and once she wasn't even trying to fight him. There also the fact that Exodus is a Psi-Leech and had drained the Acolytes prior to encountering Jean the first time, so he had a decent boost.
No jean had the pf. Had you read morrisons run you would know jean entire arc was stating how she had the pf or rather it never left her
Jean did not have the Phoenix Force during Morrison's run until New X-men 150, where Wolverine had to kill her to awake it's consciousness. Prior to this it was establish that Jean can manifest a Phoenix raptor which is comparable to Psylocke's butterfly manifestation. It is just the totality of her powers operating at their peak.
so any feat prior to X-men 150 is jean using her own power and not the Phoenix.
compared to jean
As far as telepathy is concerned Emma has stated herself that jean is more gifted than she and this much was shown during New X-men 121 where Jean and Emma took a journey into the mind of Cassandra Nova to retrieve Charles's psyche. Jean had little to no problem overcoming multiple mental traps and obstacles placed by Cassandra. While Emma was stilll stuck on door #1.
Gallery
As far as her TP combat she has battle against powerful foes as well...
Gallery
X-Factor #65- Jean didn't have her telepathy at this time and had become accustomed to her tk. Psynapse used this to his advantage by bringing Jean to the astral plane where her tk is useless. He then proceeds to revert Jean's mind into an infant state and made her relive her most haunting memories. This however inadvertently reawakened Jean's tp , making contact with her teammates and then oneshoting Psynapse after an attempt to dig deeper into her mind. Psynapse has planetary telepathy and is a Psi_leech just like Exodus.
Gallery
Wolverine #113- Ogun, a demonic psionic entity, had gone on a possession trip taking over the bodies of multiple people, including Jean. However Jean was not only able to expel him from her mind but the mind of Helen Bach. She later proceeds to decimate him on the astral plane.
Gallery
X-Factor #65: Apocalypse infects young Nathan with a deadly virus, which cause Nate to pull Jean into the Astral Plane to combat it. The virus takes on the form of Apocalype and uses Nathan's psionic abilities to combat Jean. She holds her own and brings in Cyclops to finish him off. All of this took place in the midst of battle in the corporeal world.
Gallery
X-men Vol 2 #53- Jean encounters Onslaught on the astral plane and is taken completely by surprise. However she did manage to put up a decent fight and knock him off his feet a few times. Ultimately she loses however this is a testament of her psionic durability.
The fight with Gamemaster took place in X-men Annual Vol 2. I don't have the full fight but I do have the before and after pics. Gamemaster considered Jean his only threat at that time.
Gallery
Psylocke also has a few TP under her belt that compares to Emma. You shouldn't overestimate Emma's ability.
Log in to comment