Elder God Demonbane Vs Battler Ushiromiya Vs Reinhard Heydrich

Demon babe.

Babe?

EGD godstomps.

The only two characters who are a match for Elder God Demonbane in Umineko and Dies Irae are Featherine and Hajun respectively. Everyone else gets absolutely wrecked even if you add infinite levels of power to them.

I am sensing serious Demonbane biased within you.....

@egdemonbane: nope he just knows a lot about egdb.

I doubt that.....after looking all his comments seems to be related to the vsbattles wikia....which by default they dont know anything.

@egdemonbane: not really what he told me about demonbane was accurate so I doubt that.

@masterofluck123: Bruh, Reinhard kills concepts, Demonbane shouldn't win here.

@norin-radd: I do not get my information from VS Battles. They only provide the feats for EGD while I go further to explain those feats and their concepts. Even if you take the concept of higher dimensions out, the principle of the concept of infinity is that nothing can be higher than infinity. Otherwise its not infinite in the first place.

I showed you quotes for the cosmology of Demonbane already once. It has an infinitely extending series of infinite universes inside another universe and an infinite amount of that universe inside another universe, and this goes on forever and endlessly.

Basically in the Klein Bottle on higher layers of existence infinity is zero, given that it can be contained in even "the tiniest speck of dust". While Demonbane never directly goes into infinite higher dimensions, its all the same concept as higher dimensions.

Infinity is zero on a higher level. Check.

There is an infinitely extending series of infinite universes inside another universe and so on. Check.

As you can see, Demonbane's cosmology is actually as big as you can possibly get along with Lovecraft, Umineko, and the Dark Tower. Demonbane is basically the same thing as Lovecraft only with robots, Umineko has an infinitely extending hierarchy where a being from a higher world sees a being from a lower world as nothing more than a chess piece, and the Dark Tower has infinite steps each infinitely greater than the previous.

And the Shining Trapezohedron can easily rewrite multiverses the same size as the Klein Bottle, and everytime two Trapezohedrons clash these Dark Tower like multiverses get destroyed and recreated over a hundred billion times.

Nya is completely unaffected by the constant creation and destruction of the Klein Bottle, and she herself said that she could create and destroy a Klein Bottle whenever she wanted to. Furthermore she has a countless amount of Klein Bottles.

And what happens when the Hilbert Space level Nyarlathotep faces off against EGD? EGD utterly stomps her over 400 million times with a glare.

The first two quotes above are the most relevant in explaining the power of the Demonbane continuity. There is more.

First quote shows the power of the Shining Trapezohedron which can seal conceptual entities like the Outer Gods. Considering the Shining Trapezohedron sealed the whole Court of Azathoth and the Garden of Azathoth, and Nyarlathotep literally handed it off to Demonbane, its safe to say even beings running on the notion of infinite dimensional space like PR Beyonder or the Glory wouldn't even register as a blip on Nyarlathotep's radar.

@chand_voltic I am well aware of Reinhard being able to create and destroy concepts effortlessly, but once you reach dimensionless levels (beyond even infinite dimensions) concepts and numbers don't matter much and it becomes almost impossible to discern who would win or lose. However EGD has the merit of one shotting dimensionless beings like Nyarlathotep and as far as I am aware, Hajun is the only one in Dies Irae who can also one shot dimensionless beings.

Battler is logically an non-issue here seeing as how he is an infinite amount of levels below the other two characters.

A much better alternative to this match would have been "EGD vs Hajun" or "EGD vs Featherine".

@MasterOfLuck123: sounds heavy

@masterofluck123: I know what you know os completely legit that what I told him.

@norin-radd: I know. I was just explaining so people wouldn't say I was "wanking" Demonbane.

Is this Reinhard Heydrich someone other than the high ranking Nazi? (Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia)

@bodhbh: Its Reinhard Heydrich from Dies Irae.

Still a Nazi, but a nigh-omnipotent Nazi nonetheless.

Cheers! I did google it, but got swamped out by the irl Nazi...who to be fair is/was quite notorious.

@bodhbh: Yeah, the real life Reinhard was indeed infamous and charismatic. Which is what DI Reinhard is based off on.

The Nazis in Dies Irae are basically, if you gave Nazis nigh omnipotent conceptual reality warping powers. Their whole fight is all conceptual and has little to nothing to do with physical combat once they reach Atziluth. When they obtain Atziluth they gain Taiji/Taikyoku which, well, bends and disregards scale altogether. A god with a Taikyoku of 20 and can only destroy a rock can stomp a god with a Taikyoku of 10 who can destroy a infinite multiverse with infinite dimensions. Hence their battles are not based on destructive powers which makes them tricky in debates, but rather they "paint" reality over with their own concepts and enforce it.

Reinhard is one of the most powerful Hadou Gods with a Taikyoku value of 90+, equal to Mercurius and Ren Fujii, surpassed only by Yato (who is also Ren, but a much more powerful variant of himself) with a Taikyoku value of 100 and Hajun who has a Taikyoku value of infinity.

While they can get tricky due to how their fights are fought, they are not featless...at all. They have specified abilities as well. Reinhard manifests himself as a legion of 100 million+ conceptual entities each beyond time, space, and dimensions, and his Holy Relic, the Longinuslanze Testament, is one of the most broken weapons. It ignores the concepts of distance, speed, missing and durability. It will always hit you regardless of your speed and can never miss, and most importantly no matter your durability it will always one shot you. Thats just how it works, and anyone killed by him or a member of his legion automatically becomes a member of his legion.

So Reinhard has a legion of hundreds of millions of gods each arguably as powerful as Beyonder himself, has a one shot kill weapon that can never miss and will always hit, can create and destroy any desired concept, can completely erase anyone who isn't on his level, and so and so forth.

@etheral_dreams:

#23 Posted by Etheral_Dreams (5978 posts) - 10 months, 24 days ago - Show Bio

@sebast_allen said:

@pern: Who the heck are all of those people, they don't even look like Surfer level beings :(

@mr_ingenuity: 9 Ivory Kings disagree :P

Those guys that Pern posted (at least the first 3) are people who could casually stomp pre-retcon Beyonder. One of them has the power to stomp someone who can casually destroy infinite different multiverses over 400,000,000 times on every plane of existence by simply looking at her. Another has the power to create hundreds of millions of gods each arguably the power of Beyonder to serve him, and can completely erase any supernatural power that isn't on his level. Another casually slaughters gods who can blink trillions of multiverses out of existence.

EGD should take this with no issues.

I do have some comments on this, though:

That's not impressive in of itself, bruh.

@hewho:Reinhard can effortlessly nuke concepts, outspeed concepts, one punch concepts. That's not impressive? From my knowledge 90% of fiction runs on concepts.

@masterofluck123: What can Hajun do? I know he's one of the Hadou Gods, and I know he said that he can squash the other Hadou gods like insects, but how can he stalemate a dimensionless being like EGD? I'm not too sure, but I think he lost to Yato/Ren?

@chand_voltic: "Nuking" and "one-punching" concepts are more or less the same thing. And outspeeding concepts makes no sense. That isn't to say manipulating concepts isn't impressive. but many high-end cosmics (or multiversals in general) can manipulate them.

@chand_voltic: Hajun didn't lose to Yato, although Yato did resist Hajun's Law for over 8000 years, while all Hajun has to do is wave his hand and Reinhard, Mercurius, Marie, and Ren would simultaneously get ROFLstomped. And while Yato could resist his influence for 8000 years, he would still have never been able to touch Hajun no matter what while Hajun was still fused with the Tumor.

Hajun was also defeated by plot conveniences. There was a wound in his Law that made it possible for the KKK cast to win. Something that wouldn't be present in fights not including plot devices. And Habaki was the Tumor's sensory/avatar, in which when he faced Hajun, Hajun's law began to work like a normal Hadou God's, making Hajun way weaker. However Hadou God is still > Gudou God and so Habaki still couldn't beat Hajun. But Keishirou and Sakuya somehow managed to crack Hajun's Law and Habaki took advantage of this, making the crack larger and eventually extracting the Tumor from Hajun's body, leaving him as a weaksauce and wreck.

You see? The plot itself was against Hajun.

The Shinzaverse as a whole ignores the concept of dimensions due to their system (Taikyoku). The Throne can also be called a hyperdimensional construct seeing as how it is the root of everything; concepts, ideas etc. Hajun is definitely on EGD's level given both can one shot beings beyond the concept of dimensions.

@hewho: What's the difference between manipulating and destroying concepts?

@masterofluck123 Bruh, a series that is aimed towards teenagers will always have bullshit plot armor, plot convenience. Did Hajun really beat Karl, Reinhard, Ren with the swipe of his hand?

But I get what you're saying.

@chand_voltic: Yes, he did. It wasn't even a fight at all, just a very one-sided curb stomp. He just painted over/killed them all casually like that.

However, Ren survived and resisted his Law for a longass time and after returning as Yato, he should be able to stomp both Mercury and Reinhard as well. For one thing, resisting the influence of Hajun while Hajun stomped the rest means that Yato should be much more superior as compared to Suigin and Ougon.

@chand_voltic: I'm just using "manipulation" as a catch-all term here for "doing something with or to concepts."

@masterofluck123So in conclusion Elder God Demonbane destroys Reinhard Heydrich and Battler Ushiromiya with just a glare...? And the only one in fiction that can take on EGD are Hajun, and the Cthulhu Mythos?

well, anyway thanks for the information.

@hewho Who cares, we already know who wins. So it's pointless argueing about concepts now.

@chand_voltic: You obviously cared because you kept asking questions because small words were too big for your brain.

@chand_voltic: The Cthulhu Mythos Outer Gods/Court of Azathoth won't cut it. EGD defeated and sealed their Demonbane counterparts barring Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth. Yog could stalemate EGD seeing as how EGD is equal to Demonbane Yog. Nameless Mist and Unnamed Darkness could also stalemate EGD.

Others able to stalemate EGD would include Soga Keena, Kawahara Sakuya, Mutsuki, Featherine Augustus Aurora and Hajun. Anyone else is going to get absolutely humiliated by a glare or thought.

All of those I named are capable of standing in the same room as EGD. The Mist and Darkness exist on a similar level to Yog-Sothoth. The Mist created Yog-Sothoth and is untouchable even by Outer Gods. The Darkness is equal to the Mist, created Shub-Niggurath (one of the highest ranking Outer Gods) and is well beyond any Outer God. Soga Keena views beings beyond the concept of dimensions as mere stories. Kawahara Sakuya can create an infinite amount of beings each on the level of a Outer God and Mutsuki is equal to her. Featherine is above the realm of witches, an abyss of infinite hierarchical layers consisting of dimensional and nondimensional beings.

And no, fiction is a very, very wide term. We don't even know all of fiction. Just 1% of fiction is already massive. Saying things like "Character X can solo 97.8% of fiction" is pure nonsense. There could be lots of fictional works out there we have no idea about containing an assload of entities on the same level of the Outer Gods/Hadou Gods/Magic Gods etc. This is why I generally don't prefer saying things like "Character X is the strongest character in all of fiction and no one except for omnipotent beings can beat X".

@masterofluck123: Yeah, saying that was a misinterpretation on my part. Ever heard of Suggsverse? Made by Leonel Suggs? It's a over convulated hierarchical mess, with complex terminologies for ever heirarcy. Do you think any one from that verse can solo the characters you've listed above? I know that even fodders are nigh-omnipotents.

@chand_voltic:

Suggsverse can't even get past Naruto. Its just a power trip made up by Suggs with his god complex forming words like "petazetaverse" and "multimegaultrapatapataverse".

Suggs' shit tiers are omnipotent or above that which is silly. A mook from Suggsverse beat up the omnipotent God, and Suggs' own wiki lists omnipotent beings as fodder. It was simply made just to be overpowered because Suggs wanking GetBackers was exposed. From then on he decided to make his own series just so he could never lose again. Unfortunately, almost nobody takes his "megazetapetaverses" seriously, which is a good thing.

but we all know goku solos

@masterofluck123: Aight. Thanks for the info.

Fixed

EGD stomps

@blackice709: bro not even if Vegeta had completed ultra instinct and they fused vegito completed ultra instinct wouldn’t even stand a chance let alone especially after goku got hit by jiren in his completed state

I voted in Demonbane in this thread back then, change my vote to Reinhard.

I THINK (not fully sure though) that Battler takes this. Contrary to popular belief, he is far above Bernkastel (when he is a Game Master), as in a straight up fight, he borderline crippled her with one punch and a kick. Bernkastel defeated Battler in their GAME, where she used mysteries Battler has never heard of to impale him, however before the game, Battler straight up was bodying her in a fair fight. You can even argue Battler only lost in the game on purpose to help Ange, because like Ange, he also has the Golden Truth, meaning if he wanted to, he could've done what Ange did to Bernkastel from the start. You may argue Bernkastel was tired from her previous fight, but she seemed fine overall.

The reason I bring this up is because I personally believe Bernkastel>Rein, so if Battler is stomping Bernkastel, then he should win this. HOWEVER, my knowledge on Rein is limited, so I may be wrong.

Overall I'd place EoS Game Master Battler as the third strongest Umineko character next to Aurora and the Creator of course. Ange is overhyped and had help defeating Bernkastel, so she isn't anywhere near Battler's level in my opinion.

If this is normal Sorcerer Battler however, and not the Game Master Battler that was stomping Bernkastel, then I'd say he loses to Rein.

Overall, take my opinion on all of this with a grain of salt and correct me if I made any mistakes.

EGDB is pure wank and gets stomped by both in my eyes.

Athleta Aeternum GG......

Elder Chad Demon Babe wins

@zgtfreak: The only reason Battler did anything to Bern is because of them both being the Game Master of the same Gameboard, so they were both on the same level of existence. Without this, Bern is so much above Battler that it doesn't even matter anymore.

@ovy7: Yes, but I assume we are using peak/prime versions, meaning the Battler that bodied Bernkastel and seemed to intentionally lose/not use the Golden Truth on Bernkastel due to Ange. If I remember correctly, both being Game Master put Battler to her level, not Bernkastel being lowered to his. If we are using normal Sorcerer Battler, then he loses of course.

@zgtfreak: And if we are using peak Bernkastel then we have an abstract entity that can evolve infinitely at will until reaching omnipotence. Yes, Battler got powered up on Bern's level and fought better than Lambda, but that's only because of the rules laid there.

Anyway, you can use those feats for Battler if you want (those are still his feats), which should technically put him either at Reinhard's level or above (depending on how you view the Taikyoku system).

@ovy7: Let's not count Bernkastel becoming omnipotent, as she is no longer Bernkastel; she would become one with the Creator and lose her sense of self.

As for Battler, I do believe Game Master Battler>Rein, but like I said, my knowledge is limited on Rein, so I may be wrong. I am not a Vsbattles person though, so I do not back up Outerverse Rein (or Battler), despite the name "Outerverse" sounding pretty cool.

In short, if this is Sorcerer Battler, then I'd say Rein>Battler>EGDB (he's strong, but wanked horribly).

If this is Game Master Battler, then I'd say Battler>>>Rein>>>>EGDB.

I'd check more on Rein, but I see more people arguing about what tiering system to use as opposed to actual debating, so my knowledge will remain limited for a while.

Also, I'll edit my initial post to show I mean Game Master Battler specifically, so no one thinks that I mean normal Sorcerer Battler.

@zgtfreak:

Let's not count Bernkastel becoming omnipotent, as she is no longer Bernkastel; she would become one with the Creator and lose her sense of self.

True. The omnipotence thing is more like a theoretical peak if Bern abuses her status as a Voyager.

I am not a Vsbattles person though

I am. . . well, at least a normal VSBW user. I try to help there with feats and whatnot, but I'm not interested in their tiering system and I don't have any interest in using it.

despite the name "Outerverse" sounding pretty cool.

It really does sounds pretty cool.

I'd check more on Rein, but I see more people arguing about what tiering system to use as opposed to actual debating, so my knowledge will remain limited for a while.

From my knowledge, most of what makes Rein (and every God in Shinza Bansho) is coming from Kajiri Kamui Kagura, which isn't translated. Using only Dies Irae, you have some universal/multiversal feats for Rein, and not much more honestly (excluding his hax abilities, of course). With the introduction of the Taikyoku system, you basically got a Reinhard that's 90 levels of infinity above baseline multiversal, admittedly.

What also makes him powerful is his Legion that numbers in the millions, and because of Atziluth, they all get powered up to Reinhard's level.

@ovy7: I don't have a problem with someone simply being a Vsbattles user, I only dislike the people who think Vsbattles is the fountain of truth and knowledge, and will paste Vsbattle pages of characters with no context to try and win a debate.

As for Rein, that sounds extremely impressive despite me thinking EoS Game Master Battler stomps. I'll have to look more into Rein's hax as well. He definitely curbstomps normal Sorcerer Battler no diff.

Demonbane?

Battler solostomps. In Shinza Bansho, we can only scale of a infinite baseline multiverse. Reinhard has 90 Taikyokou, which would make him 90 infinite baseline multiversal. With that, Reinhard transcends a 4-D cosmology and is 5-dimensional. Even if the shinza bansho verse is 10-D, he woudln't stand a chance against Battler. The klein bottles were stated to be just finite sized universes by the author. But Demonbane is still able to blink Rainhard, since Demonbane is 90+ infinite baseline multiversal, while Demonbane is 400.000.000+ infinite baseline multiversal, according to the fact that he blinked at Nyarlathotep and she died over 400.000.000 million times in a nanosecond (Nyar was responsible for the creation of the klein bottle). But Battler is way above the voyager witches, which are live in the witch domain, which has countless infinite-dimensional multiverses. That Reinhard transcends the cosmology of his verse only means that he transcends FINITE dimensions, which is nothing compared to infinite-D. Battler is infinite above a infinite-dimensional cosmology. Battler stomps.

@yasindermann:

But Battler is way above the voyager witches

Nah, he was just somewhat stronger than Bernkastel. . .under specific circumstances. . .and that Bernkastel was most likely an avatar of the true Bernkastel. In normal circumstances any Voyager could blink him away.

Not that it matters that much, if Battler here is at his strongest then he's the version that fought Bernkastel and he'll still be to strong for the other 2.

@ovy7: Hm, @zgtfreak said that Battler fighted against the real Bernkastel. I mean, I think he means it like this, because he never said something of an ''avatar'', or something. Can you give me proof that this was a avatar?

@yasindermann:In Tsubasa Bern sends Featherine a letter about Beatrice and her games, basically "reviving" Featherine and making her interested in Beatrice's mystery. Yet in the main VN Featherine summons the VN's Bernkastel to her and Bern had no idea Featherine "revived". We also know that Featherine stays dead while Bernkastel search for a good story for her, then she tells Auau about the story to "revive" her.

This points to me that the Bernkastel we see in the story is just a Piece of the real Bernkastel, similar to the Bernkastel from Higurashi (at the end, when an adult Bernkastel appears to Takano Miyo).

I'll try to find some scans if you want.