Eldar Vs. Necron Vs. Tyranid Vs. Forerunners

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#1 Posted by Doomnaut (2442 posts) - - Show Bio

Eldar

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Necron

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Tyranid

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Forerunners

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Scenario 1

All sides are at their most powerful

Each side gets 1 week of prep before all out war

No reality warping beings

Fight takes place in the Halo Universe

Scenario 2

All sides are at their most powerful

Each side gets 1 week of prep before all out war

Fight takes place in the Warhammer 40k Universe

Who wins?

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#2 Posted by Doomnaut (2442 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#3 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

Forerunners take round one because they have homeground advantage

Ronund 2 is tough and can go any way

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#4 Posted by nerdork (4060 posts) - - Show Bio

Necrons take both rounds. Extreme teleportaiton, Monoliths and consistent reincarnation will win the day. Not to mention the warrior's gauss rounds will one-shot any unit at the molecular level. Would still be a long war, but there is basically no end to the amount of Necrons who can and will join the fight.

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#5 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

hold there was another thread that had a Forerunners vs Necrons is this a duplicate if it comes down to these two?

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#6 Edited by Hegemon (11521 posts) - - Show Bio

Forerunners IMO.

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#7 Posted by VMole (749 posts) - - Show Bio

Forerunners have the homefield advantage. I'd say they take the first round, but definitely not easily.

Necrons in the second round for the same reason, and also since I'm guessing they'd have access to their C'tan allies as well as all of their War in Heaven technology and war making potential. It also won't be done easily.

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#8 Edited by Pierpat (5855 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 Forerunners/Tirandis

Round 2 Necrons

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#9 Edited by Silverrings (5452 posts) - - Show Bio

Either Necrons or Tyranids, in both cases. They have such vast armies, and such destructive capability, that i really can't see them losing this. From Monoliths to Trygons, Imotekh to Old One Eye, teleportation and re-forming to telekinesis and telepathy, plus the superiority of the individual Necron or Tyranid soldier to those of the Eldar or Forerunners, these armies have more than enough to win, it's just a matter of time. I dunno who'd win out of the Necrons and Tyranids, though, i'm just sure one of them would win this.

Things would get really messy if the C'Tan were involved...

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#10 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by Silverrings (5452 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Necrons > Forerunners, on the whole, i think. Especially with the C'Tan.

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#12 Posted by Strider1992 (18517 posts) - - Show Bio

At their most powerful?

Eldar>Necrons>Tyranids>Forerunners

The Eldar still hold fast against the Necrons currently in 40k despite being severely weakened and very few in number. Pre-Fall Eldar had a huge amount of Tech and Gods capable of tricking the C'tan. Heck the Laughing God tricked the Outsider into eating its own brother C'tans.

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#14 Posted by VMole (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: The Craftworld and Dark Eldar only survive because Necron activity in current fluff is either disjointed or too lethargic/crazy/self-centered to mount a serious campaign against them. The Eldar are too elusive and the Imperium presence too bountiful for the Necrons to pass up, especially since they inhabit so many of their Tomb Worlds.

The Necrons made the decision to go to sleep after they won the War in Heaven against the Old Ones and shattered or imprisoned the C'tan because they were too weakened to take on the remaining Old Ones' creations and allies. The Silent King figured the Necrontyr should hide in stasis and wait out the eventual fall of the Eldar and other races since they'd essentially last forever in their metal bodies.

The Necrons in general are more advanced than the Eldar, but their lack of Warp manipulation abilities limits how they can branch outwardly with their technology, which isn't really saying much since what they have developed using their own science is better than what everyone else is using in current fluff.

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#15 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

At their most powerful?

Eldar>Necrons>Tyranids>Forerunners

The Eldar still hold fast against the Necrons currently in 40k despite being severely weakened and very few in number. Pre-Fall Eldar had a huge amount of Tech and Gods capable of tricking the C'tan. Heck the Laughing God tricked the Outsider into eating its own brother C'tans.

seriously the Forerunners had at the very end of thire civilization Trillions of citizens and a Huge armada of massive Warships they can cross the Galaxy in a matter of Hours making them much much faster than any 40 k race. and Forerunner dreadnoughts weapons were known to fire on teratons scale rang and were strong enough to withstand exatons of firepower without a single scratch! that is something that even the 40 k universe has to stand up and take notice of

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#16 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

Tempted to say Tyranids rounds 1 & 2.

But as already mentioned pre the fall Eldar where a force to be reckoned with & without Chaos playing a part here im going to give the Eldar the win here in both rounds.

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#18 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow people are really underselling the Forunners here they are OP as hell

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#19 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow people are really underselling the Forunners here they are OP as hell

To be honest i dont know that much about the forunners but a thread a month or so ago with the forunners v The Necrons the majority of arguments went in favour of the Necrons & imo in this scenario Eldar>Necrons

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#20 Edited by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime:

that's the thing the Forerunners have a bunch of OP stuff it just takes a lot of digging to get to it the 40k verse has all its forces out in the open

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#21 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime:

that's the thing the Forerunners have a bunch of OP stuff it just takes a lot of digging to get to it the 40k verse has all its forces out in the open.

If people investigated the Forerunners would be considered much more of a threat

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#22 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime:

that's the thing the Forerunners have a bunch of OP stuff it just takes a lot of digging to get to it the 40k verse has all its forces out in the open.

If people investigated the Forerunners would be considered much more of a threat

Fair point.Will start looking into the Forerunners & see wot they can do :)

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#23 Posted by Frocharocha (6287 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't The Didatic just use precursor technology and wipe all of them out? The Halo arrays are made of Precursor Technology and Forerunner warships could burst multipel solar sistems with a single shot. They only lost to the flood because they understimated them and The flood learned how to produce their own units and use Forerunner weapons and minds agaisn't themselfs.

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#24 Edited by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103 Ok read a few details on the Forerunners from a few sources & impressive as they are Tech wise i still cant see anything from their Arsenal being able to contend with the likes of Khaine, & Vale & with the weeks prep the Eldar Blackstone fortress starships combined should be able to cause the same havok as the Forerunner WOMD.

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#25 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime:

really

Halo+ Halo proof shield worlds= death of Eldar and possibly Necrons and Tyrnids

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#26 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime:

really

Halo+ Halo proof shield worlds= death of Eldar and possibly Necrons and Tyrnids

The thing is pre the fall Eldar tech was lightyears ahead of its time.Not even the Adeptus Mechanicus could fully understand the working of Eldar tech/artifacts found.They couldnt even find the full workings of the Talisman of Vaul ie- The Blackstone fortress Ships.

They also expanded on the Webway and actually drained the energy from suns to power their own artificial stars within their Webway ports. (Dark Eldar Codex.) So that must have taken some hell of Tech to be able that?.

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#27 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime:

yeah but they just do ont have the Tech of the forerunners and the frist round is in the Halo verse so no web ways and only as many craft worlds that are in there fleets

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#28 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime:

yeah but they just do ont have the Tech of the forerunners and the frist round is in the Halo verse so no web ways and only as many craft worlds that are in there fleets

I know im just stating the type of tech they had was powerful enough to create their own stars.Will look further into the forerunner tech/history tomorrow & also dig up if possible the pre the fall fleet numbers & feats of Vaul, Khaine & Cegorach (to name but a few) & post them here :)

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#29 Edited by JUSTICE42 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok firstly, Scenario 1 appears to be slightly favouring the Forerunners. Home field advantage aside, the "No reality warping beings" deprives the the Eldar of their gods and the Necrons of the C'tan (possibly the biggest game changers here) yet the Forerunners receive no corresponding gimp in Scenario 2 (yes they don't get the halo rings and all that but in Scenario 1 not only do the other races lose their in-universe advantages (not an issue coz it goes both ways) but then the Eldar and Necrons lose their most powerful units for no other reason (that I can see) than to give the forerunners a little extra advantage)

Also it could be argued that all psychers are reality warping beings since casting warp lightning (for example) at something is no less reality warping than flat out magic when u really think about it, so there goes a great number of the Eldar population. However, I'm sure that was not the OP's intent and do not agree this should happen but just sayin.

Now to touch on the "Spam Halo Rings And Kill Everyone From Inside Our Shield Worlds" tactic people like to use. If the rings didn't kill the flood, I very much doubt it will kill the tyranids. The Eldar I'm not sure about but they generally seem like they would be affected like most everything else. But the Necrons will essentially get off Scott Free.

As to the actual battles, Scenario 1 I see going to the Necrons..... After a relatively long war. Despite losing the C'tan to the rules, the Necrons still have the edge. The Forerunners by rights, should vaporise the Tyranids just like they should have vaporised the flood. But we are all aware of how PIS works. So I see the 'nids out first. They do have the numbers yeah but the opponents they are up against here have reached technological heights that for the most part will nullify any numerical disadvantage they may have to contend with unless said enemy is more or less on the same technological level. In short, the Tyranids are out classed, out gunned and out of their league (which is a shame coz I am actually quite a fan of them in 40k).

In 40K fluff, the Necrons are unique in that they are the only race that generally shitstomp any enemy faction (regardless of who they are) unless said enemy has a massive numbers advantage (I'll add here that while they are defeated sometimes by overwhelming numbers in ground battles, in space this is rarely if ever the case). That includes both the Eldar and the Tyranids. So really it's more of how the Forerunners stack up against the others and whether they could beat any of them. Necrons in particular.

The Forerunners would come a close second in this first scenario because of home field advantage more or less. They would otherwise be deadlocked with the Pre-Fall Eldar if this were neutral ground or defeated by them in the 40k universe for the same reason.

I'm rather rusty on Pre-Fall Eldar but I distinctly remember that they had become so advanced at the height if their power no one even worked. They had technology to do it for them..... And everything else for that matter (after all, when your race controls the galaxy, you have a life span that stretches millennia and you have tech that can and does do literally everything for you, what else is there?). Hence the epic levels of boredom and lack of purpose which led to the assorted debauchery that A Day In The Life Of Your Average Eldar devolved into, culminating in their Fall. And even the Eldar look at Necron tech like its magic.

From what I've read and what I remember, I'd put them on about the same level technologically as the Forerunners or maybe even a little a tiiiiiny bit below them since they both have some border-line-hax to hax shiz to showcase in their own right but I'm not sure if (even at their height) the Eldar ever got so far as to start genetically engineering other races like the Forerunners did. Maybe they weren't interested but I thought that was more in the province of the Old Ones seeing as that's how the Eldar came to be in the first place. Furthermore, Eldar more than any other race utilise the warp in conjunction with technology. Unlike the IoM for example, it's not just a source of psychic power and a way to get around the galaxy. The Eldar utilize it in just about every way they can and I don't know if that may have unintentionally limited the development of the tech itself (eg- we wouldn't of invented cars or buses or trains etc if we could all fly around like superman). If someone could clear that up for me I would appreciate it.

Having said that, on the proviso that they don't get instance killed by the Halo array, I think the same warp energy that "may" have somewhat gimped their technological advancement (or at least slowed it) would be a major issue for the Forerunners since they really have no counter to it.

All in all, I would have Scenario 1 as the Necrons coming out on top because even with their shield worlds and halo rings and other home field advantages they possess, the forerunners aren't quite at the hax level of the Necrons. I mean even the most basic Necron troop (Necron warrior) is made of living, regenerating, ridiculously strong metal armour. Forerunners have battle armour themselves but even the didact's suit of awesomeness cannot match the necron's upper ranks of Necron lord armour. As far as I know, (could be wrong) once u blow a hole in a forerunner and their armour, they don't have the ability to get right back up and keep fighting while repairing themselves. An edge in durability or at the very least with regen, plus the fact that the same basic warrior is armed with a weapon which, by firing a green lightning looking bolt of energy , essentially flays matter on an molecular (atomic?) level by dissolving the bonds between the molecules (atoms?) of the target then magnetically pulling the now individual molecules (atoms?) back towards the weapon. This is considered the most basic weapon in the Necron arsenal and is literally mass produced for their basic infantry. What I'm getting at here is not that the Necrons are way over the hill compared to everyone else but they are essentially one tier above them. The forerunners I know possess tech which can compare with a lot of Necron tech but when it comes to the highest end, Necrons are still in the lead. Things like Tesseract Labyrinths (hand held cube that sucks enemies into a parallel dimension) staves that stop time, ships that eat suns and have literally limitless speed, firepower which is as likely to go strait through your shields as not, guns that deconstruct matter (as your most basic rifle)..... You get what I mean.

The forerunners have the ability to make for example lasers that vaporise u on an atomic level but such a thing would be a specialised weapon reserved for special units or missions and it is that which let's them down the most. And while they have accomplished wonders of technology, the Necrons have reached a stage where even the laws of physics pose no problem any more. I'd put the forerunners at a tech level somewhere in between current Eldar and the Old Ones. Not sure how Pre-Fall Eldar would fit but as I said earlier, probably ever so slightly below the Forerunners. Followed then of course by the Tyranids last and that is how I think the battle would go in scenario 1:

Necrons>Forerunners>Pre-Fall Eldar>Tyranids.

Now scenario 2 is almost exactly the same as Scenario 1 accept that the in-universe advantages afforded the forerunners have been replaced with advantages for the others like the Webway for instance. This, along with the introduction of the Eldar pantheon and the C'tan for the Necrons means that now the Forerunners will drop to third as the Pre-Fall Eldar become too much for them to handle in the 40kverse. Some end of Scenario 2:

Necrons>Pre-Fall Eldar>Forerunners>Tyranids

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#30 Posted by Doomnaut (2442 posts) - - Show Bio

bump.

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#31 Posted by Killerwasp (17547 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerdork said:

Necrons take both rounds. Extreme teleportaiton, Monoliths and consistent reincarnation will win the day. Not to mention the warrior's gauss rounds will one-shot any unit at the molecular level. Would still be a long war, but there is basically no end to the amount of Necrons who can and will join the fight.

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#32 Posted by deactivated-5cc9f423d4bb9 (1243 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

Tyranids wins

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#33 Posted by XTrojanX (166 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting thread, i'll give it to forerunners.

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#34 Posted by JwwProd (20954 posts) - - Show Bio

WiH Necrons > Forerunners >/= Pre-Fall Eldar > Tyranids > Current Necrons > Post-Fall Eldar.

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#35 Edited by noah_ouellette (3787 posts) - - Show Bio

@doomnaut:

Ight so. Multiple forerunners were high level reality warpers. So remove necron from equation then banish the rest to different planes of existence. Gg wp stick to 40k :P

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#36 Posted by JwwProd (20954 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by Doomnaut (2442 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP!

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#38 Posted by JwwProd (20954 posts) - - Show Bio

@doomnaut: I'm sticking to this:

@jwwprod said:

WiH Necrons > Forerunners >/= Pre-Fall Eldar > Tyranids > Current Necrons > Post-Fall Eldar.

Still a good fight though.

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#39 Edited by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp said:
said:

Necrons take both rounds. Extreme teleportaiton, Monoliths and consistent reincarnation will win the day. Not to mention the warrior's gauss rounds will one-shot any unit at the molecular level. Would still be a long war, but there is basically no end to the amount of Necrons who can and will join the fight.

HOW DARE YOU BETRAY HALO

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#40 Posted by Killerwasp (17547 posts) - - Show Bio

@eisenfauste: Hey i can settle for necrons out doing the forerunners in WiH, i do believe it could still go either way but yeah. Shame on u for not arguing for the forerunners in that forerunners vs team thread, someone's still got faith in that the protoss could out do them <_<

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#41 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: I did sort of debate, or provide some context to why I thought forerunners would win :P

They're too much for anyone there and have the numberzzz

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#42 Edited by Killerwasp (17547 posts) - - Show Bio

@eisenfauste: IIRC protoss fleet was around 900 ships tops, but i could be wrong. Either way thats only 900, but still YOU NEED TO ARGUE!

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#43 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: Forerunners curbstomp is my argument :P, no one can disprove that lawl.

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#44 Posted by Killerwasp (17547 posts) - - Show Bio