Edo Itachi vs 5 Kage

Can't believe this wasn't done. So who wins and why?

Round 1: All Normal

Round 2: All Bloodlusted

Edo Itachi vs Tsunade, A, Oonoki, Mei, and Gaara

Location: Same as where they fought Madara

Itachi gets full knowledge on the kage's abilities both rounds

I say Itachi (too lazy to retype, so I'll copy/past my old message), Because he has these :

Instant win Izanami :

All deflecting/reflecting shield which completely covers his susano'o :

Instant win sword, if you get scratched even once you will be sealed :

Instant win Tsukuyomi :

Amaterasu spam:

And a bunch of other Genjutsu haxes.

Anyway the only real problem Madara had against the 5 kages was the Dust release justu (since it could obliterate his susano'o allowing the kages to launch their combined attack), But Yata mirror should tank it.

@nyas: Izanami was turned off by Kabuto because he "found himself." I'm pretty sure the 5 kages know who they truly are and have their own personal goals.

Is that the only way it works ? Not that it matters, Itachi still has too many haxes.

Yea Kabuto found himself in recent chapters. I still think Itachi wins simply because he has full knowledge of the kages. Itachi's analytical skills are crazy and maybe even better than madara's. He seemed to be able to figure out anyone's weakness(batman of naruto XD).

Yeah I'm following the manga, I wonder If Izanami can only be used to cast that specific loop... Gonna have to reread the chapters apparently lol

Izanami is still useful any ninja could have walked up and kunai kabuto lol kabuto was only safe because he was hidden in the cave if he was left on the battlefield he would have been done by an alliance shinobi.

Itachi his a prodigy and one of my favourite characters in Naruto , but he cant take all the the kages its too much, but it should be a good fight since Itachi wouldn't loose so easy.

@uchiha454: How is this even fair? He's basically unkillable and if he has full knowledge then he already knows to kill Tsuande first, since she is the only one who knows how to perform sealing Jutsu among these ninja to my knowledge. After that nothing else matters. Sure it would take him a long time to put them down, but they will eventually get tired and run out of Chakra.

Is there a reason he can't ? He just needs to use his shield and no one will be able to even get near him. And he can pretty much OS anyone with that sword.

@nyas: If he is in Edo form, no he doesn't even need to use his Shield. He is unkillable unless they seal him. Only Tsuande knows high level sealing among these ninja, so he kills her first then he has nothing to worry about.

Quite fair seeing as how gaara can seal edos and full knowledge doesn't mean he'll be able to kill Tsunade first it was even shown in there fight with Madara they were adamant in keeping her alive.

@nyas: Nope , was shown in the fight vs Madara that Gaara pulled him out of his susanoo and the susanoo dissapeared. So Gaara would make that in Itachi and he would be defensless. Onoki would use Jinton: Genkai Hakuri no Jutsu in Itachi and Itachi would die.

Hey guys I need people to debate on my new thread. Thank you :)

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/sasuke-uchiha-vs-kabuto-1551847/#0

@uchiha454: OK I wasn't sure if Gaara could do it, I'm going to have to go back and look. Then he kills Tsuande and Gaara. :) Much more fair, but he still wins.

If he receives damage, he will take a few seconds to regenerate which means they will have enough time to seal him.

Did you miss the pic I posted ? Itachi doesn't need to be inside of his susano'o to use it unlike Madara :

@nyas: LOL , Missed that picture. Thanks anyway.

@lukehero: But yeah , Itachi would win because he is in edo form , but otherwise he would loose.

Edo Itachi has the potential to take this if his willing to kill
hard to say, good match up

Kage can take this, itachi is highly overrated. The versatility advantage and the fact that they are on a team makes it even worse. Itachi cannot "lolgenjutsu" all of them.

Overrated ? Don't ignore facts, How are they even supposed to hurt him ?

And he can "lolgenjutsu" all of them, his susano'o has four arms remember... (grab and genjutsu)

@nyas: I think it's a good match up, but if he has full knowledge then he just needs to kill the two that can seal him Gaara and Tsunade. With the things other people have pointed out, the Kage could win some matches, but he should win the majority. 7/10

Well... what exactly are the things the others have pointed out ? No one is going past his defense and he can OS everyone or Genjutsu them or worse :

@nyas: The fact that he is in Edo form is a huge advantage and the fact he has some excellent Genjustu. Fact is he really would focus on killing the two ninja that can seal him. Then worry about everyone else later. Also when you are in Edo form, you don't have to worry about running out of a Chakra.

Ah, I thought you meant people actually pointed out ways Itachi could lose lol

@nyas: Nah, only way to beat him is to seal him before he has a chance to kill the two sealing ninja; Gaara, and Tsuande. Old man Oiokinka and Lava Lady would have to slam him hard while Raikage protects one of the sealers to make sure they have a chance to seal. Kage win 3/10.

I don't really see how they are going to seal him ? (I thought They needed to imprison him with sand them put the seal symbols all over that sand)

But If they can actually seal him from a distance, then you are correct. :)

I'd hate to underrate the Kages, but Masashi has been making them look like jokes lately. First, we get Hiruzen Sarutobi who was supposedly the "god of the ninja world". Now, all of a sudden, one kage can't even beat a rogue ninja. Seriously...

Itachi wins

Bump

Izanami isn't an option because of what you have to do to activate it. You have to get your opponent to relive the same three sensations twice. Unless there's a writer making the characters follow through the same steps to feel these sensations in the same order there's no way Itachi is going to get Izanami to activate.

The Yata Mirror is the only thing making this a fight, and there's a chance it can't auto-block more than one type of attack at a time. It alters it's nature to counter the attack used, but what if it gets slammed with lava release, sand, and dust release simultaneously? Does it have any feats of blocking multiple high level attacks from different users at once? It's a bit of a No Limits Fallacy as it is now.

Killing Gaara isn't going to be easy. His sand is one of the strongest defensive techniques in the series, and it can protect him automatically. Itachi's sword can seal anything it cuts, but how strong is the sword at penetrating physical barriers that don't have souls to seal? We also have Onoki and Mei who have earth release and can erect barriers.

Gaara is also capable of ripping Itachi out of his Susanoo the same way he did against Madara. Mei can use her acid release to melt Itachi inside his Susanoo, since he obviously can still breath in there. This might not kill him since he's an Edo, but it should disrupt him more than enough for the others to make a move.

As for genjutsu, old lady Chiyo and Sakura were able to dispel Itachi's illusions, and were able to dispel them from Naruto. Yes this was an Itachi with only 30% of his chakra, but that doesn't mean his illusions were less potent. I highly doubt any of the kage will be unable to dispel Itachi's genjutsu, and as Kakashi said fighting a genjutsu specialist as a group is the preferred method of dealing with them.

The five kage have a ton of versatility on their side, and Itachi is no Madara Uchiha. The only thing keeping him in the game is the Yata Mirror.

@metaljimmor: excellent conclusions the only issue I saw is Mei wouldn't she be unable to use corrosive style because she can't keep it contained and it would injure others?

@uchiha454:

That is a weakness of the technique, but I'm sure the five kage could find a work around. Maybe make a sand barrier around Itachi's Susanoo to contain the acid. Or have Gaara pull him out and into a sand coffin full of acid! That would smart.

Good post. I was thinking Itachi would take it but I had not thought it threw.

Bump

@metaljimmor:

Izanami isn't an option because of what you have to do to activate it. You have to get your opponent to relive the same three sensations twice. Unless there's a writer making the characters follow through the same steps to feel these sensations in the same order there's no way Itachi is going to get Izanami to activate.

Agreed.

The Yata Mirror is the only thing making this a fight, and there's a chance it can't auto-block more than one type of attack at a time. It alters it's nature to counter the attack used, but what if it gets slammed with lava release, sand, and dust release simultaneously? Does it have any feats of blocking multiple high level attacks from different users at once? It's a bit of a No Limits Fallacy as it is now.

These are speculations, the mirror was never mentioned to only be able to block one type of attack at a time, and it was never stated that it needed any time to alter it's nature :

If it had these kind of limitations, I believe kishi would have clarified that in his data book. Furthermore, when Sasuke used the multiple Kunais+ explosive tags, the mirror was able to negate the piercing damage from the kunais + the explosions from the tags + the heat from the fire it left. Now you might want to say that it was just durable ? Not a chance, this shield negates damage through attribute alteration, something like that doesn't have any set durability to start with...

Anyway, let us suppose that what you are saying is correct and that it's only able to negate one type of attack at a time : The only thing it needs to deflect it Onoki's dust release, are you forgetting that Itachi has Susano'o ? Sand isn't doing a thing, and Lava wasn't a problem for Madara's incomplete susano'o so why would it even be a threat to Itachi's complete one ?

Killing Gaara isn't going to be easy. His sand is one of the strongest defensive techniques in the series, and it can protect him automatically. Itachi's sword can seal anything it cuts, but how strong is the sword at penetrating physical barriers that don't have souls to seal? We also have Onoki and Mei who have earth release and can erect barriers.

At first glance Gaara might seem to be a threat, but honestly I think he would be the first to go down... Amaterasu remember ? Sure if Gaara is close enough he will be able to counter it (like he did against sasuke) but there are two things to consider here :

1) Sharingan

2) Distance

Sharingan because unlike Sasuke and Madara, Itachi is a genjutsu specialist, and remember how that kind of enemy is fought ? By not looking them in the eyes. With that being the case, the 5 kages would be focused on avoiding eye contact, which would give Itachi plenty of time to prepare his Amaterasu (I'm not sure he even needs time to do it in Edo...).

Distance because unless they are really close to him (which would be stupid since he has his hax sword) they probably wont realize he is using Amaterasu, most likely something like this :

See how Naruto -despite his sensory ability- only noticed Amaterasu once it hit the dog ? So now we have two possibilities :

-Gaara not being able to protect against Amaterasu because it will "appear" somewhere on his body (His sand would be useless if that's the case)

-Gaara constantly surrounding himself with Sand to protect against potential Amaterasu, if That's the case he will either run out of chakra eventually or get his defense smashed by hundreds of Yasaka Magatam's. And if Oniki tries to help him, Itachi just needs to burn/seal that old man while he is summoning his stone golem.

Gaara is also capable of ripping Itachi out of his Susanoo the same way he did against Madara. Mei can use her acid release to melt Itachi inside his Susanoo, since he obviously can still breath in there. This might not kill him since he's an Edo, but it should disrupt him more than enough for the others to make a move.

Gaara was only able to grab Madara because his Susano'o wasn't protecting his legs and Madara was still underestimating them. Itachi isn't as cocky, once he realizes Gaara is a sand user he will immediately change position to one of the rock pillars and probably prepare a clone or substitution to be extra careful. Also since the fight takes place where Madara fought the 5 kages, Itachi will automatically start on top of this rock :

And I really don't see why he would try to engage the 5 kages in close combat like Madara did.

And acid release is useless, they are in an open field, besides she needs to get as close as possible to make sure the others aren't affect which isn't a wise idea at all (sword) so either her on the Raikage will be the first to get sealed.

As for genjutsu, old lady Chiyo and Sakura were able to dispel Itachi's illusions, and were able to dispel them from Naruto. Yes this was an Itachi with only 30% of his chakra, but that doesn't mean his illusions were less potent. I highly doubt any of the kage will be unable to dispel Itachi's genjutsu, and as Kakashi said fighting a genjutsu specialist as a group is the preferred method of dealing with them.

You are completely taking what happened out of context :

1) Chiyo and Sakura didn't negate the Illusion on themselves, since neither of them was put under genjutsu to start with, they only broke the one affecting Naruto.

2) Naruto had received specific training from jiraiya in order to dispel Genjustsu, and yet he was completely helpless and unable to do a thing to break free.

3) The illusion used that time was a regular genjustu Itachi casted with his finger, Tsukuyomi is a completely different case since it can break the mind of the victim nearly instantly (in the real world), so the kage affected will be incapacitated before anyone on his team even realize what happened.

4)A regular genjustu is enough,Because If it takes the kages even a second to tell they are under one, it's over, Itachi would burn/seal/kill them before they are able to break themselves free.

The five kage have a ton of versatility on their side, and Itachi is no Madara Uchiha.

Same with Itachi, Infinite chakra = infinite clones, what can the kages do against billions or hundreds of thousands of billions of Itachis all with susano'o ? Edo tensei is the most broken Jutsu in the Naruto verse...

Itachi is no Madara Uchiha ? I don't see how this is relevant ?

@nyas: Interesting points but I don't see gaara going down first I think he'll last longer than most of the kages except maybe Tsunade and A

Well considering he is one of the only two characters who can seal Itachi, It would be reasonable to target him first. But that was a figure of speech anyway lol

True it would be reasonable but targeting opponents doesn't always mean you'll get them first when Madara decided to kill Tsunade first because she was a descendant of hashirama after he toyed with the kage for a while it took some time and he ultimately failed albeit it thanks to orochimaru also Itachi is more cautious and analytic while this is a strong suit he is also more likely to overestimate their abilities and take them down slowly and not be as direct as madara well at least for round one

Madara really shouldn't be compared to Itachi, Tsunade got impaled by Madara's surprise attack but survived because she had her seal activated, If the same thing happens to her while fighting Itachi, she would get sealed. Madara never took his fight vs 5 kages seriously, If he wanted to he could have immediately used his perfect susano'o to trample them to dust, and even more importantly he didn't even care whether they were really dead before leaving... (he said : "who knows... they probably aren't ok" when asked about what happened).

Also you gave Itachi knowledge, meaning there is no reason he will under or overestimate them.

Itachi stomps pretty hard.

I don't really see why not they both used similar fighting style in regards to susanoo also she did get impaled by Madara's surprise attack but that was with wood clones I don't think Itachi can replicate that feat with shadow clones if he could have wouldn't it have been useful in detaining kabuto or in Sasuke fighting Danzo? True but he was trying to kill them I mean come on he bisected Tsunade you can't say that isn't a death strike. I think that he was saying that because they didn't live up to his expectations meaning he doesn't care if they are near death or dead kind of like they'll die soon because they never were a real threat.

Itachi overestimates everyone even after analyzing them he overestimated sasuke throughout their entire battle and he has been watching over his little brother from time to time overestimates (1. He can break Tsukyomi 2. He can overcome Amaterasu 3. He can overcome Susanoo) with Kabuto (1. He is smarter/better liar than him 2. He was extremely strong 3. The only way to stop him was with Izanami (personally I thought a Tsukyomi would have sufficed)) But I guess Bloodlusted he probably won't overestimate and just go for the kill round one is debatable I think.

No they have extremely different fighting styles and their personalities are waaaaaaaaaaay too different.... Itachi relies on clones, genjutsu, and other distance attacks to fight, Madara relies on his susano'o + Close range abilities, Also Itachi would never make stupid mistakes such as leaving the battlefield without making sure the enemies are dead or leaving the sealing bottle (or whatever it is) because his thinks he is invincible with Juubi. And he would also never play around during a fight he can end instantly...

And the only reason Itachi didn't solo the Great Ninja war was Plot.... As I said Infinite chakra = infinite clones. As for Sasuke vs Danzo, Sasuke only has a limited amount of chakra and using susano'o caused him unbearable pain...

And Madara never took them seriously, there is a ridiculous amount of ways he could have killed the kages : Meteorites, Infinite would clones, Perfect susano'o, he could have killed the Raikage when he grabbed him etc

As for Tsunade she explicitly stated that she wanted to use her healing ability to take him off guard meaning she would have allowed him to stab her sooner or later, deadly mistake if she was fighting Itachi. And cut in half or not Madara didn't make sure they were dead, Itachi would.

Wait... when did Itachi overestimate Sasuke ...? Are you sure you didn't make a typo ? because If anything he was underestimating him... and it doesn't even matter since he didn't have knowledge. Also How does breaking Tsukuyomi count as overestimating ? and when did Sasuke overcome Amaterasu or Sasuano'o ? Sasuke was nearly burned to death by Amaterasu he only survived because he used that orochimaru jutsu and it consumed too much chakra meaning he couldn't do it again, he was merely saved by Itachi's eye going blind (meaning no more Amaterasu), As for susano'o Sasuke was utterly helpless against it...

And wait again, How does admitting he is a better lier than Itachi count as overestimating Kabuto ? And Kabuto really was very strong... and about Tsukuyomi did you forget that sage mode granted Kabuto's eyes a membrane making them immune to Genjutsu ?

@nyas: Good scans. I'm glad you brought up the older scans. Most people on CV don't know anything about Naruto except for the Ninja War arc. Heck, I couldn't put it any better myself.

Thank you. :)

Kages wins here. And Kages are being so underrated here lol..

@uchiha454:

Well they are both fighting with Giant Armors and clone usage the base abilities are the same the way in which they are used is different. I am not saying Itachi would leave the battlefield like Madara that would be pointless here he has no where to go lol.

Clones are not part of Madara's original fighting style (since wood clones are something he acquired after receiving Hashirama's DNA), And Itachi doesn't use Susano'o unless he is fighting someone really strong, Madara was using it on fodders lol

Besides it doesn't matter if some of their abilities are the same, if they use them differently then it's not the same fighting style. Also even if Itachi had something to do, I seriously doubt he'd do something as nonprofessional as leaving the 5 strongest Ninjas in the world without making sure he finished them off.

Limited but before he fought Danzo it was replenished and his rage kept the pain at bay. I think Sasuke could have pulled it off iif he was able I mean it much simpler to have multiple killers (Bow and Arrow Susanoos) rather than just one and kill the target over and over and over again.

Sasuke using a clone at that time would have been a horrible strategy since Danzo was using Izanagi. Remember how Izanagi works ? the eye will be open for one minute after activation and during that minute no matter how many times the target is killed they can just wrap reality and comeback, meaning Sasuke had to survive while killing Danzo for 12 minutes (I think he had 12 eyes), now lets suppose he made a clone : His chakra would have been divided by two, and he would have gone blind twice as fast... really not ideal for a battle where preserving chakra was the key...

If Itachi cuts someone in half given his pacifst nature he wouldn't but if he did I don't think he'd double check but he'd probably have guard still up as a precaution.

A medic Ninja which can heal pretty much any injury and has a summon which can also heal her ? I dunno about you but if I where in Itachi's position I wouldn't leave before at least beheading her... Or better yet, set the corpse on fire, and I'm sure Itachi would do the same.

No typo If Itachi would have used a full power Tsukyomi the match would have ended before it started He overcame them with orochimaru amps for the first he used cursed seal level 2. For Amaterasu he used orochimaru's snake shed technique. For Susanoo he really didn't overcome it but that is the point itachi believed he could overcome all those when he really couldn't an overestimation of Sasuke's skills at the time.

How is that overestimating ? Itachi didn't use a full power tsukuyomi because he didn't want to win (the whole point was him dieing after fighting sasuke), And as I said Sasuke didn't overcome Ameterasu he only survived one use because of Orochimaru's jutsu, If it wasn't for Itachi going blind another Amaterasu would have killed him (since he didn't have much chakra to use that jutsu again), And Itachi never thought Sasuke would overcome Susano'o, Itachi only used it to seal orochimaru and speedup his own death (to make sure he is dead by the end of their fight, so sasuke can believe he avenged their family). And I'll repeat myself : Itachi didn't have knowledge at that time.

Itachi for a whole village and S-Rank criminals while Kabuto has fooled a few in village that is an overestimation imo Kabuto was a composite of sound 4 and orochimaru nothing he really did would suggest that he was too much for either Sasuke or Itachi alone. Isn't Izanami still done with the eye after recording and setting the loop and that is why it is forced to go blind?

Itachi never really fooled Konoha, the higher-ups faked the story behind the uchiha decimation, as for Akatsuki, there isn't much of a communication between the members, and I doubt any of them would care why the others joined. that aside, If Itachi admits Kabuto is a better lier than him, I really don't see why you would disagree lol

Anyway, Kabuto could have killed sasuke remember :

And about Izanami :

@nyas:

These are speculations, the mirror was never mentioned to only be able to block one type of attack at a time, and it was never stated that it needed any time to alter it's nature :

I admit it's speculation, but Yata Mirror is a No Limits Fallacy. To say it will negate absolutely every attack with no limitations isn't exactly fair in a debate. It also doesn't entirely make sense given Itachi isn't absolutely impossible to defeat even in his Edo Form. Also, there's no way explosive tags would penetrate even a normal Susanoo, so that's not much evidence of the Yata Mirror blocking multiple different elemental attacks.

For that matter, why does Itachi tend to fight outside of his impervious Susanoo when it's active? That never really made sense to me.

-Gaara not being able to protect against Amaterasu because it will "appear" somewhere on his body (His sand would be useless if that's the case)

Amaterasu has been dodged and blocked before. It isn't an unavoidable technique like people seem to make it out to be. I'd also point out that when Gaara fights he always coats himself in sand armor, so no the Amaterasu won't appear directly on his body, and given how slow Amaterasu burns he should have plenty of time to remove the sand before the fire burns through, then put on new sand.

Your argument with genjutsu also doesn't hold water. They broke Naruto out of the genjutsu using the same method Jiraiya taught Naruto. They injected their chakra into him to stop the chakra flow in his body momentarily then overpower the genjutsu with a surge of chakra. It's the same mechanic as the technique Naruto was attempting to use. Naruto just didn't have the same level of skill with the technique as the two women. There is also absolutely no reason to suspect the five strongest shinobi in the five villages don't know how to dispel genjutsu. If you deny that they can due to lack of feats then sure, you win the debate. But given how rare genjutsu is in the series and the fact the kage haven't been completely shut down by genjutsu before it wouldn't be a very fair argument.

Tsukiyome certainly is on another level, but I don't see Itachi being able to make eye contact with the five kage from a distance, and the only one who might go into melee is A.

Itachi isn't going to take any of the kage out at the start of the fight. That implies he is tremendously faster and stronger than any single kage, which I have a hard time believing. He has a deadly arsenal, but a limited one. The five kage have numbers and are just as strong if not stronger than Itachi on an individual level. Without the Yata Mirror's No Limits Fallacy power, this wouldn't even be a debate.