@deathhero61@zetsumoto:After reading through this, my votes gonna go to @zetsumoto That's not to say that Deathhero certainly didn't make a solid case, it's just that at the end of the day, I believe that Zet's team is the perfect foil to DH's own. It was really just bad match up for DH. You have a team that uses a lot of magic based attacks (gonna call it that since energy between verses are equalized) against two characters who can basically give the middle finger to those types of characters. It's like oil and water really. That said, I've got some feedback for you both (as I always do when I vote)
Deathhero61
Your use of scans & Gifs were on point, and your use of scans was good. Like I said in the general section, it was just a tough match. That said, I have one glaring point that I took issue with. In your opener under the durability section. Specifically this GIF. I don't see that as a legitimate durability feat due to how the mechanics in Sonic games work. Namely how taking a hit works. You may see it as a nitpick, and it pretty much is, and was probably the biggest issue that I had with your whole side of the debate.
Zetsumoto
Honestly, the only issue I have is posting the lighting reaction and you know why.... other then that, your counters were on point, well aimed and meshed pretty well. You had it rough going against a morals off, out of character team, but you made good use of your prep in order to counter that.
That said, I have one glaring point that I took issue with. In your opener under the durability section. Specifically this GIF. I don't see that as a legitimate durability feat due to how the mechanics in Sonic games work. Namely how taking a hit works. You may see it as a nitpick, and it pretty much is, and was probably the biggest issue that I had with your whole side of the debate.
People just don't understand how Sonic Games work. If that isn't a feat, Sonic has the durability of a real life hedgehog then. Because I addressed this in at least three CAVS already, Rings are meaningless, although they are referenced several times, they mean nothing. If rings were truly so important, characters wouldn't have durability feats in cutscenes. And TBH this is meaningless considering I already showed feats of Silver being crushed by his own ball of rubble(watch the end of the Sonic vs Silver fight in Sonic Generations) and showed feats of Silver tanking attacks from Sonic. And I also already showed feats of him creating barriers that can shrug off the weight of buildings.
@zetsumoto I have a question regarding Silver's TK, can you elaborate on how your characters counter that?
You said something about Maka using her wavelength to negate it or something? I was curious about that because Silver was using his TK on more powerful magic users than Maka and Yato so I was curious on how that was supposed to work.
@deathhero61: Maka can analyze your specific wavelength, and release her own signal custom made to counter yours. Think of it like magical version of Active Noise Control. Another comparison, would be resonating frequencies.
As for having feats against "more powerful magic users", I can make those same arguments with Asura as an example... The problem is, Maka doesn't win via raw power, she wins by adapting her ability to counter you.
@deathhero61: Maka can analyze your specific wavelength, and release her own signal custom made to counter yours. Think of it like magical version of Active Noise Control. Another comparison, would be resonating frequencies.
As for having feats against "more powerful magic users", I can make those same arguments with Asura as an example... The problem is, Maka doesn't win via raw power, she wins by adapting her ability to counter you.
Ah you mentioned this before, but I wasn't really sure how that translates into disrupting powers. I wish we had more time to do more back and forths. This is an interesting matchup.
Enerjak is a mid-top tier magic user in the Sonic Universe.(archie) Enerjak is a planetary threat who was toying with Silver the entire time, and his magic easily overwhelmed Silver's TK until Silver found a way to simply redirect his more powerful energies back at him. TBH I feel like that's a GGs right there in regards to whether Silver's TK would redirect attacks or not, and whether or not it'd be negated so easily.
That said, I have one glaring point that I took issue with. In your opener under the durability section. Specifically this GIF. I don't see that as a legitimate durability feat due to how the mechanics in Sonic games work. Namely how taking a hit works. You may see it as a nitpick, and it pretty much is, and was probably the biggest issue that I had with your whole side of the debate.
People just don't understand how Sonic Games work. If that isn't a feat, Sonic has the durability of a real life hedgehog then. Because I addressed this in at least three CAVS already, Rings are meaningless, although they are referenced several times, they mean nothing. If rings were truly so important, characters wouldn't have durability feats in cutscenes. And TBH this is meaningless considering I already showed feats of Silver being crushed by his own ball of rubble(watch the end of the Sonic vs Silver fight in Sonic Generations) and showed feats of Silver tanking attacks from Sonic. And I also already showed feats of him creating barriers that can shrug off the weight of buildings.
. Like I said, I don't view it as legit feat of durability. I'm not discounting the durability,considering you established it with later scans of comics. I mentioned this in my post. Like I said, it's a nitpick, nothing more.
@deathhero61: Maka can analyze your specific wavelength, and release her own signal custom made to counter yours. Think of it like magical version of Active Noise Control. Another comparison, would be resonating frequencies.
As for having feats against "more powerful magic users", I can make those same arguments with Asura as an example... The problem is, Maka doesn't win via raw power, she wins by adapting her ability to counter you.
Ah you mentioned this before, but I wasn't really sure how that translates into disrupting powers. I wish we had more time to do more back and forths. This is an interesting matchup.
Enerjak is a mid-top tier magic user in the Sonic Universe.(archie) Enerjak is a planetary threat who was toying with Silver the entire time, and his magic easily overwhelmed Silver's TK until Silver found a way to simply redirect his more powerful energies back at him. TBH I feel like that's a GGs right there in regards to whether Silver's TK would redirect attacks or not, and whether or not it'd be negated so easily.
Like I said, the signal is specifically designed to disrupt your specific wavelength. It's not about overpowering it.
As for TK to redirect a planetary threat. Honestly, that sounds above the limits. It's not like Maka who can hijack powers via hax, TK his redirecting things with force. So given the city block level rule, if you can use your TK to force planetary level magic to change direction then it's kinda...
@deathhero61: Maka can analyze your specific wavelength, and release her own signal custom made to counter yours. Think of it like magical version of Active Noise Control. Another comparison, would be resonating frequencies.
As for having feats against "more powerful magic users", I can make those same arguments with Asura as an example... The problem is, Maka doesn't win via raw power, she wins by adapting her ability to counter you.
Ah you mentioned this before, but I wasn't really sure how that translates into disrupting powers. I wish we had more time to do more back and forths. This is an interesting matchup.
Enerjak is a mid-top tier magic user in the Sonic Universe.(archie) Enerjak is a planetary threat who was toying with Silver the entire time, and his magic easily overwhelmed Silver's TK until Silver found a way to simply redirect his more powerful energies back at him. TBH I feel like that's a GGs right there in regards to whether Silver's TK would redirect attacks or not, and whether or not it'd be negated so easily.
Like I said, the signal is specifically designed to disrupt your specific wavelength. It's not about overpowering it.
As for TK to redirect a planetary threat. Honestly, that sounds above the limits. It's not like Maka who can hijack powers via hax, TK his redirecting things with force. So given the city block level rule, if you can use your TK to force planetary level magic to change direction then it's kinda...
Fair enough. That's actually pretty broken when i think about it.
He was holding back to a significant degree, Silver is nowhere near on the level of the opponents he faced and he wasn't doing any damage to him at all despite the level of destruction. However, considering what Enerjak has done with his magic, this is still insanely impressive, and all i'm saying is that it cements whether or not his TK would be easily negated. But even then, with prep there is still the possibility of Maka's ability disrupting it. Which is why this match is so even.
No hate, just personally find it harder to understand and merge with other universes' logic and mechanics on magic.
I also personally find it difficult to interpret manga scans (especially if it tries to show something huge scale) as of the moment (but the stated context helps a little, but sometimes even those stated context from the user could be farther from the truth or is just a "high-end" personal interpretation of the scan....).
I do not know the supposed limits of the character's here, so...sorry for seeming ignorance.
I guess the game changer here is whether Danny's intangibility will work against the opposing team's attacks or not.
I personally do not like the whole "speed" debate thing, and I just consider everyone here has a chance to react to each other.
There will probably be some holes in what I have to say, so sorry....
I rushed somewhat by the time I was at DeathHero61's second post....
- I did not see any solid scans, official statements, or gifs, or any kind of proof about Silver's teleportation being part of his power set or if he even utilizes them (which might not even matter too much since team is out of character and not holding back....).
Oh wait, that second post about Silver teleporting Sonic in a Circus in a certain PSP game. Nevermind.
But was Silver teleported as well?
I am not a person overly familiar with Sonic, so....
- DeathHero61's team seems to have better physical stats than Zetsumoto's, but the latter can keep up.
- That Yato guy's damage output is the best here from what I have seen and definitely makes up for the stat disadvantage.
He can pull of those devastating attacks for as long as he keeps swiping that sword from what I am getting.
Whoops, that whole Danny can counter it with freeze attacks point came up.
- I am already convinced that Zetsumoto's team has the tactical and skill advantage due to having some guy that has centuries of experience and knowledge of being a deity and that video link about martial arts skill from one of the members of his/her team who has a sentient weapon....
That one day of preparation helps too.
I know that Fenton got some training with his ice powers from a ghost polar bear or something, but that is it.
- Silver does not seem supernatural to me. Though, the origin of his powers were not seemingly explained.
We have no idea whether they are supernatural or scientific.
But, something about tournament rules saying they are the same and can work with each other, so....
- Zetsumoto showed the same scans in his or her second posts, just with more context (not that it is bad or deducts "convincing" points in my point of view....).
- From what I am seeing, that Yato magic blade attack thing can also severe abstract stuff like desire(?) and memories so okay.
I do not see Mr. Fenton's intangibility topping that....
....both of my characters can fly, and their flight abilities obviously contribute to their raw strength.
Well, it is not obvious to me....I do understand the meaning behind this. How does flying contribute with their raw strength?
- Zetsumoto
Here, Yato reacts to a blitz from a character traveling through cloud to ground lightning (remember, clouds are 6000 meters in sky. That lightning traveled that entire distance in a single panel, yet Yato was able to block the sword strike despite not even moving until just before it hit him). He also reacts to bullets fired in close range, while in a completely awkward position.
- DeathHero61
Here, Yato reacts to a blitz from a character traveling through cloud to ground lightning (remember, clouds are 6000 meters in sky. That lightning traveled that entire distance in a single panel, yet Yato was able to block the sword strike despite not even moving until just before it hit him). He also reacts to bullets fired in close range, while in a completely awkward position.
Oh snap!
- Zetsumoto
Yato's Speed:
Reacting to Lightning is an extremely common trope in stories. There's not much to put Yato anywhere near the speed of real life lightning, and in this scenario I am certainly not arguing him as such.
I treat lightning like I would any other energy attack. I use the circumstances of the fight itself to determine likely speeds. Given that the lightning had to cross from the clouds to the ground in a single panel, it would have to be solidly hyper-sonic in speed:
Gallery
He is not faster than the lightning, but Yato was fast enough to react to it. This easily puts him at the edges of what this tourney allows for speed, and more than fast enough to react to any sort of blitz from your characters.
Welp, nevermind....
- I could barely understand the Maka person's powers, so sorry about that.
Something about wavelength and making a certain energy or supernatural attack not work by using an attack that is like opposite that will render it mute or something....
Basically energy attacks will be rendered non-existant? How will it look? Cannot visualize this sheet properly in my head....
Something about seeing the entire world (understood that somewhat atleast).
Cleaving through stone pillars (understood).
Vote goes to @deathhero61 because I understood characters' abilities better and seemed to counter more stuff.
But it is close, as in 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 close.
Having prior knowledge on most of the characters (especially Maka, as I admittedly seem to have underrated her in my post) could have allowed me to make a better vote.
I was mostly familiar with Danny, but everyone else was mostly a stranger to me.
Nice CAV. The Zetsumoto guy gets my vote. I feel he made a solid case for feats, scans and good character examples, analogies etc as well as a deeper understanding of the character he's debating for Yato. Both make good arguments, I just feel like Zetsumoto was more elaborate with his points IMO
I feel like @zetsumoto misrepresented the facts and didn't quite counter his opponents arguments to the best of his abilities. For that reason my vote goes to @deathhero61
I feel like @zetsumotomisrepresented the facts and didn't quite counter his opponents arguments to the best of his abilities. For that reason my vote goes to @deathhero61
I feel like @zetsumotomisrepresented the facts and didn't quite counter his opponents arguments to the best of his abilities. For that reason my vote goes to @deathhero61
Could you be more specific?
You completely blew your characters out of proportion (Maka especially) citing only high end showings. Not a good strategy.
@hypnozzz: I used showings from multiple different fights she has been in. Yato usually has to hold back. Given the deserted post apocalyptic setting; he doesn't here, because there's no collateral damage to worry about.
Fair enough though. I won't press your vote further.
@hypnozzz: I used showings from multiple different fights she has been in. Yato usually has to hold back. Given the deserted post apocalyptic setting; he doesn't here, because there's no collateral damage to worry about.
Fair enough though. I won't press your vote further.
Sounds to me like you aren't accepting my reasons for casting my vote. If you can't rationalize and take criticism it may not be in your best interest to sign up for something like this.
@hypnozzz: I used showings from multiple different fights she has been in. Yato usually has to hold back. Given the deserted post apocalyptic setting; he doesn't here, because there's no collateral damage to worry about.
Fair enough though. I won't press your vote further.
Sounds to me like you aren't accepting my reasons for casting my vote. If you can't rationalize and take criticism it may not be in your best interest to sign up for something like this.
Umm... I said I'd accept your vote and not press the issue further. I am not sure what else you want me to say... Am I just supposed to automatically agree with you?
@hypnozzz: I used showings from multiple different fights she has been in. Yato usually has to hold back. Given the deserted post apocalyptic setting; he doesn't here, because there's no collateral damage to worry about.
Fair enough though. I won't press your vote further.
Sounds to me like you aren't accepting my reasons for casting my vote. If you can't rationalize and take criticism it may not be in your best interest to sign up for something like this.
Umm... I said I'd accept your vote and not press the issue further. I am not sure what else you want me to say... Am I just supposed to automatically agree with you?
I just get the vibe that you brushed off my critiques instead of using them to further yourself in this setting. That's not productive.
@hypnozzz your vote shouldn't even count tbh. No disrespect to you but unless you're a proven alt -- then usually those with less than 500 posts aren't even taken seriously. Just on the off chance that it could be unfair. It's happened before.
@hypnozzz your vote shouldn't even count tbh. No disrespect to you but unless you're a proven alt -- then usually those with less than 500 posts aren't even taken seriously. Just on the off chance that it could be unfair. It's happened before.
I don't see anything about that mentioned in the main post. Honestly it just seems like none of you can take a conflicting opinion. That really doesn't speak for your maturity.
Conflicting opinion. Why would I care? This isn't my CaV. You're entitled to your opinion but your smartass tone needs to drop. Responding to everyone in such a manner when all they are doing is clarifying their stance to you shows your maturity level as well. People aren't as smart as they think they are.
Conflicting opinion. Why would I care? This isn't my CaV. You're entitled to your opinion but your smartass tone needs to drop. Responding to everyone in such a manner when all they are doing is clarifying their stance to you shows your maturity level as well. People aren't as smart as they think they are.
Nope you're probably zetsumo's homeboy and you've come to take my vote away. This is fascism at its finest.
Conflicting opinion. Why would I care? This isn't my CaV. You're entitled to your opinion but your smartass tone needs to drop. Responding to everyone in such a manner when all they are doing is clarifying their stance to you shows your maturity level as well. People aren't as smart as they think they are.
Nope you're probably zetsumo's homeboy and you've come to take my vote away. This is fascism at its finest.
hahaha spoken like a true nerd. Full explanation above you yet you choose to not read and hurl assumptions lol
Both debaters deserve the votes they receive. They are both very talented, but your ongoing attitude warranted a statement from me and now you have no defense for it other than claiming conspiracy and "Nope".
Conflicting opinion. Why would I care? This isn't my CaV. You're entitled to your opinion but your smartass tone needs to drop. Responding to everyone in such a manner when all they are doing is clarifying their stance to you shows your maturity level as well. People aren't as smart as they think they are.
Nope you're probably zetsumo's homeboy and you've come to take my vote away. This is fascism at its finest.
hahaha spoken like a true nerd. Full explanation above you yet you choose to not read and hurl assumptions lol
Both debaters deserve the votes they receive. They are both very talented, but your ongoing attitude warranted a statement from me and now you have no defense for it other than claiming conspiracy and "Nope".
You can't be taken too seriously.
I hurl assumptions and you hurl insults in response. Really doesn't make you seem innocent. Honestly it does the exact opposite.
Who's in charge around here? I'm being harassed by users in this thread, and they've stooped to calling me names like middleschool bullies.
And now you patronize me. It's like grade school all over again where the kids would berate me and then act as if they did nothing once the teacher was around. Typical
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