Duo Mid Finals: Mr Ingenuity vs Zetsumoto (VOTING OPEN!!!!)

@necronn-: @god_vulcan

At first looking at the initial openers, I already had a winner in mind, but as the debate went on, it got more and more even, Zets had several solid counters on Mr Ingenuity, while Mr. Ingenuity had various counters or various ways to address Zets strategy(Something literally nobody else could do in the other rounds) He had an answer for everything. But I'm going to ignore the mud ball fest that was the arguing of limitations for a sec(as much as I would love to rant about that) Let's assume both teams fit the limitations perfectly and fairly. Zets strategy would have been more effective, two fighters who can combat opponents at literally any range, one of them being capable of hiding his own presence. Knowing what I do of Yato now based off my match against Zetsumoto, I wish he went into a different route regarding Yato's ability to completely erase his "existence" I wish he added more to his strategy. Mr. Ingenuity's strategy was straight forward and to the point, "my characters have what is necessary to win, and here's why they'll survive your strategy" It wasn't some super well thought out, but broken strategy like in a certain tournament, but simply him debating, tackling certain points and arguments and just overall having a straightforward approach.

Honestly, right now I can't really choose who won. Neither really did better than the other. I'll wait to see other votes then evaluate my final answer based off that

bump

@zetsumoto: Ill vote in just a bit, probably 2 or 3 hours.

@anthp2000@arcus1@smxlr8@major_hellstorm@god_vulcan@queen_marceline@amendment50

Even without reading this yet, I feel like I have judged this match 3 times...lol. Will give this a read later.

@deathhero61: @zetsumoto:@mr_ingenuity:

gonna read and vote

btw, anyone wanna join me in a street tier tag team tourney filling now?.. don't have a partner.

@deathhero61: @zetsumoto: Thanks for the double tag. I'm reading through rn

@mr_ingenuity: @zetsumoto: @sirfizzwhizz:

after reading the character infos and the strategy part, i actually thought zetsumoto had this in the bag

but i have to admit.. it is quite even by the time i finished the reading.

not mentioning most of the things i thought, zetsumoto's strategy and team specialized area was superior... while mr_ingenuity's team was more compact, and were more lethal in a close contact fight.

what i thought of this fight by the end was, zetsomoto's team might not be able to finish up mimic that easily in air, but they can certainly land hits... specially when they're ambushing with unnoticeable large area attacks (and the location helps to stay unnoticeable as well), i didn't get much confidence on mimic dodging all the sneak area attack on air WHILE holding another person (i'm still thinking all of these characters are within limits though.. or else they're disqualified).

wujin may get defeated while in air, zetsomoto was right, he can't do much in air by himself... and while i believe mimic can get to the team without going down, but he'll certainly take hits..... i think he can destroy both of zetsumoto's team one on one in close combat.. but i think zetsumoto's team might take a slight edge while it being a two on one handicap fight against an injured mimic.

i give this to @zetsumoto by a very very fine margin .. although both seemed to tamper with speed limits.. so if SFW says something about that, then they might go on the edge of dq .. but since this is the final.. i doubt that'd happen right? :D

@mr_ingenuity: What manwha is Wujin from?

Also this debate is pretty even but I know that's not what the debaters want to hear. Guess I'll have to judge you guys on something other than your arguments.

After skimming a bit, this one looks pretty interesting. I'll try to find time to read it thoroughly later today.

@ssj_god: Nice, thanks for the vote!

@god_vulcan: @vermillion0831: @necronn-/@revan2424 bump

@zetsumoto: Alright I lied about it being up in 2 hours, but I got called into work sorry. Ill try to vote before the night.

@jardinain2: Cool, thanks!

@sly_141 mind voting?

bump @foxerdes@youngkaiser

I'll toss a vote out for Zetsumoto. Debating wise these guys were pretty even, both had solid counters and arguements, I had trouble choosing a winner much like everyone else, initially I was even thinking of going with Ingenuity because he was able to change my mind mid debate after I already thought Zets would win due to his opening strategy, however when in comes to which team I think would win, I think it will be Zets' mostly because he had a more aggresive strategy and advantages that Ingenuity didn't have (team work, opening attack etc.)

This was a good debate all around though.

@foxerdes: @major_hellstorm:Thanks for the votes!

bump

@zetsumoto: lol, don't rush me. But I'll probably have to put this off until tomorrow if it's not closed or decided by then.

I've read through this thing twice, and at this moment, I can't actually pick a winner. I can find what I would call perfectly legitimate reasons to cast my vote for either of you. On the one hand, Zetsumoto had the far more aggressive strategy, and he made some decent use of his prep time, to where I would believe that his team would take this fight. But on the other hand, Mr Ingenuity placed his counters well, and kept Zetsumoto on the back foot, debating wise, turning some of Zet's own logic back on him (looking at Yato's passive ability here) among other things. Both of you made very good cases. For now, I'll leave it here. If I actually read through this again and vote for either of you, I'll let you know

@zetsumoto: You should debate Ingenuity again he just might break your win streak.

@major_hellstorm: lol maybe. The closest I have come to losing was against @thevivas, though I wasn't particularly passionate about the team I made in that tourney.

@zetsumoto: @mr_ingenuity Its hard to say anything that hasn't already been said...

But my vote does indeed go to Zets, mostly because of his excellent use of prep, a barrage of attacks and a near full proof strategy kept Mr.Ingenuity on the defensive from the get go. And while Mr. did have some good counters and was even able to throw some logic back at Zets, the overwhelming nature of Zets attacks kept everything moving at a blithering pace, and it looked like it got hard to counter stuff towards the end. It was a lot closer towards the end, but Zets just used his synergy and teamwork in a really interesting way, and his knowledge on characters and strategy made everything fall into place for him.

Bravo to both of you, its always a joy to read two really great debaters go at it!

Damn, it's hard to decide. It's really close for me. I might read over some points again and vote this afternoon.

Oh I didn't notice jardinain's post when I made my last comment. The winner is the first to 5 votes right? Seems my vote wouldn't matter either way at this point so I won't bother rereading. Congrats to both debaters. It was an interesting read.

Hmm, I have nothing else to really add, ignoring the talk of limitations, even if we assume that Yato's projectiles were only supersonic for the sake of fareness, Mr. I's team is dealing with an ambush from across multiple miles in an area where they would get insane amounts of cover thanks to the buildings and city blocks in the way. The range of the attacks and the length of said attacks would be rather hard to avoid, and even in a direct battle, the characters have exactly what they need to win.

Mr. I was the better debater and had the best arguments against Zets strategy, but just like everyone else, he didn't have the effective method to deal with it. It makes me have some regrets myself, because if I had the mental and soul resistance perk, I would have been able to take this -.-

Zets made use of the rules and made a team that complemented each other perfectly to the point of making an amazing team. This team was like the equivalent of having an aimbot in a COD match. One character could immediately pinpoint the enemy team while the other could snipe with wide slashes that can potentially oneshot.

Can't wait for a 2.0 of this tourney

Keep dreaming. kek

@zetsumoto: I could debate with you all day on why your team would have got stomped by mine if I had counters to your mental and soul BS. But that's not the point of why I said that, I only bothered to mention this because of your feud with SFW, your team wasn't unbeatable and broken, but you simply had a strategy that was well thought out and hard to beat for most setups.

Anyway, you got your filthy vote.

@deathhero61: xD

@zetsumoto: Ill get to this soon. I'm still working my way through it.

@major_hellstorm: @foxerdes: If I had to vote it would be in line with the two voters I have tagged here. With that being said, I believe that Yatos projectiles don't have to be with in the speed limits and because of that it makes prolonged dodging impossible. Even if Yato doesn't tag you the first time, the fact that everyone is limited to Mach 5 and the fact he has hit supersonic target before leads me too believe that it's probable that he would tag Mr Ingeniutys team.

But.... I wouldn't count my vote until it gets close. If the voting does get close tag me again, then I'll look over this one more time and then give my final thoughts.The reason for doing so is because both debaters did an excellent job and I don't want an impulse vote to cut Mr. ingenuity short

@vermillion0831: @sly_141:It's the final round, so I doubt SFW will be enforcing any vote number cutoffs.

i vote yato gami, sorry not sure how this works