Dream of The Endless vs Molecule Man

Personally I gotta say Molecule Man, but lol Dream might take it

PR MM owns easily in regards to power.

If dream wanted to win he has to pull it off via mental assault possible or at least uses that as a way to trick him into a dreaming dimension where he thinks he's won and goes on living his life but is actually inside a bubble dimension dreaming his life away

well said

No version of MM Can touch Dream, and Dream probably wouldnt be bothered enough to do anything in retaliation. Even PR MM is like a fly to be swatted. Powerful for sure, but erasing Dream is not within his abilities, nor is it in the abilities of any Matter/Energy-Manipulator. Inb4 people say that PR MM is equal to PR Beyonder, which he is not, and even PR Beyonder struggled to erase a less powerful version of (but still Conceptual in nature) Death.

You mean the dream that needed a special set of circumstance plus a predestined law/rule of souls to amp and help him plus an amped device from Fathertime himself in order to recreate the multiverse?! And then was completely exhausted and drained afterwards?! Is that the dream we are talking about that is so much more powerful?

Your so-called less powerful marvel abstracts like eternity have power to do that on there own and is much below PR MM

Lol

very true indeed

Still Molecule Man.

Didn't pr beyonder struggle to erase death? MM could only handle beyonder for very short amount of time and even admitted beyonder's superiority In power. He won't be able to destroy Morpheus but could maybe overpower him. Morpheus would need to use his hax instead of approaching him directly if he wants to win.

@nicolascagegod: yeah pr mm only held beyonder for a short period of time. PR didd not struggle to earse death but used up so much of his power he couldnt bring her back unless someone made a scarifice

@annamalhouse: It doesnt matter, it doesnt take a Multiverse worth of Power to kill Molecule Man, Dream can win via hax. Meanwhile, Lucifer recreated the Multiverse using the Demiurgic power and Dream still existed with it, uneffected, implying Multiversal DC is not even close to enough to harm Dream.

@redshift_bacon:

For PR MM you need that level of power to be even noticed. He was beyond multiversal abstracts in power, this is not in question.

What hax are we talking about exactly? Only through trickery and intelligence does dream win this.

Sorry but that last bit is entirely wrong. Overture showed without a shadow of a doubt that multiversal warping effects them. When dream remade the multiverse the endless(other then the orchestror dream himself) were warped and then recreated or reformed and didn't even remember previous cycle or events that took place with the rebirth. Destiny's book was also rewritten. These are straight facts.

Dream was also shown to be imprisoned and couldn't escape without help and in fact dies in one future but was saved from his sister(forget which one) by going back in time.

The endless and all abstracts really from both sides are eternal though and even if defeated or "dies" will eventually reform because they are part of the cosmos and unwritten laws/codes that are from the true creator and more set in stone then the actual multiverse itself. To override such settings like PR Beyonder did to death for entire multiverse is a insane feat cause your basically overriding the creators structure and is even more impressive the multiversal warping. Just saying

PR beyonder killed death impressive but there are some points to say its not enought
-Death was nigh-featless same goes for all the abstract from secret wars TLT wasnt barley multiversal at the time, only molecule man had solid feats
-Vertigo Death>>>>>>>>Mistress Death
-Beyonder used so much power, he needed a seed from the death flower and a sacrifice in order to being death back
-Like i mention Death in marvel represent the concept of death and will die out and return into Oblivion at the end of the cosmos. DOTE is not a aspect or the god of death, she is death, she will reap everything and lock the dorr to the empty universe at the end of time.
-This is the same death who ran from Chaos King, was killed by Regulator Thanos, and stop by the Beyonders.
-She even with feat was close to Eternnity and Infinity in power which is impressive, but on the scale of TLT,Beyonder,and The Endless, hmmm not so much

Molecule man.all these endless are just pure hype nothing more

read sandman, though i think MM would win, he can be defeated esp seeing dream is alot smarter and more goiing on him

@damnineedabreak:

Death and abstracts were still mentioned as multiversal powers within storyline. Being a multiversal abstract is legit enough and doesn't really downgrade her IMO.

I do agree LT was not at his peak but was still a multiversal power above the abstracts.

Disagree, marvel and DC abstract entities are basically at same power levels

That's because beyonder basically override the TOAA set rules within his creation which is a HUGE feat.

Circumstance and feats of said characters/stories that you do not address to make mistress death look less impressive.

None of the endless are on that level either

Fact still remains, death of the endless was rewritten with rewriting of multiverse by dream along with destiny and his book. The dream are NOT omniversal abstracts that had power over every and all multiverses within DC. That is hogwash that certain dc fanboys try to push but is not backed up and can be taken apart by people who actually know what they are talking about.

This.

Dream

what i said almost had no bias or fanyboism. i was explaining the inconsistency of Death from Marvel. They're abstract lvl for DC and Marvel may represent the same thing, but are not on the same lvl. All the endless are near TLT and the older 4 member of the endless maybe a little higher.

Dream of The Endless stomps any version of Molecule Man in the same time

The same MM who defeated Beyonder would annihilate, not a different version tho

I have trouble seeing either put the other one down permanently, even pre-retcon MM. Morpheus can't just be killed by rearranging his molecules.

I say this might be a stalemate.

Molecule man stomps due to having better feats

MM stomps

MM is not doing nothing here, Dream stomps.

MM stomps feat wise, everything else be damned. Molecule man stomps the crap out of Morpheus by feats

Dream