Dragonborn vs Superman

@cromulor: LMFAO no. Lol. Wanna is random, and good luck guaranteeing a hit on someone 100xs if times faster (lowball) then DB.

OT: yeah, supes neg diff. Bullrush, DB is Supes biatch. GG.

@madscientist224: it was a joke really, but the Wabbajack is underrated

Mods?

@cromulor: damnit. And I got suckered in by it. Lmao. Nice. And I will agree it is underrated..... sometimes. Lol

Superman lifts the Dragonborn maybe 20 feet up in the air... and lets go. R.I.P. Dragonborn.

Superman blinks and proceeds to one-shot.

How is this not locked yet?

@lvenger:

He can't one-shot, but neither can DB without mehrunes razor. It's like fighting Wolverine, if Wolverine had an indestructible exoskeleton and one of his claws can instakill

It has a 2% chance of instantly killing its target according to the wiki. Furthermore, Miraak and Karstaag are immune to it and there's a big difference in durability between Elder Scrolls characters and DC characters. Also how does Clark not one shot?

@lvenger: Game mechanics. We're using lore, so the 2% is actually 100%. And the Daedric and Aedric artifacts are completely indestructible, to the point where Molag Bol in his own realm was unable to harm someone wearing the Savior's Hide. Daedric God's are multiversal entities, far more powerful than any number of Supermen.

@xlr87t3: Is it absolute lore that Mehrune's Razor is an instant one shot kill weapon? That and your Daedric armour point sound like NLFs. And the Dragonborn hasn't beaten any multiversal entities, not to mention that there are times when Superman has done NLF outliers like escaping a collapsing universe and beating death.

No, dragonborn gets his insides cooked from hundreds of feet away.

@lvenger: The Daedric Artifacts were created by walking talking NLFs, so that argument goes out the window when we already have durability feats for the artifacts by the Daedra themselves. I never said the Dragonborn can defeat a multiversal being, but the artifacts created by them can tank their own attacks so...

The Mehrune's Razor can only kill living beings, it can't IIRC kill dead things or automatons, so there is a limit. And it obviously wouldn't work on any of the gods in Elder Scrolls lore since they transcend life and mortality itself.

@lvenger: Aside from the fact that Dovahkiin is a universal buster as stated by Paarthunax and have immeasurable speed as stated by Vicec?

Paarthunax himself stated that if the Dovahkiin didn't kill Alduin, all of Kalpa (timeline) will be destroyed:

Dovahkiin: "The next world will have to take care of itself."

Paarthurnax: "Paaz. A fair answer. Ro fus, maybe you only balance the forces that work to quicken the end of this world. Even we who ride the currents of Time cannot see past Time's end, Wuldsetiid los tahrodiis. Those who try to hasten the end, may delay it. Those who work to delay the end, may bring it closer."

And there's also an ES prophecy that stated that Alduin have the hunger to swallow the world:

"And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold, that when brothers wage war come unfurled! Alduin, bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound, With a hunger to swallow the world!"

And no, this is not hyperbole as stated by Michael Kirkbride himself:

"When you consider a place like Tamriel, sometimes it's best to take titles literally. Alduin is the World-Eater. It's not going to be "the end of all *life* as we know it," leaving a barren wasteland of Earthbone dirt... it's going to be the whole of Nirn inside his mighty gullet."

Alduin has already done this, as stated by the Song of Pelinal vol7:

"Presently] the half-Elf [showed himself] bathed in [Meridian light] ... and he listed his bloodline in the Ayleidoon and spoke of his father, a god of the [previous kalpa's] World-River... - The Song of Pelinal, Volume 7

"He fought Shor inside of the spirit plane, for reference, the spirit plane (Aetherius) exist an infinite distance away from Nirn:

"Shor's own ghost then fought the Time-Eater on the spirit plane, as he did at the beginning of time, and he won, and Orkey's folk, the Orcs, were ruined. As Boy Wulfharth watched the battle in the sky he learned a new thu'um, What Happens When You Shake the Dragon Just So. - Five Songs of King Wulfharth

You don't believe me that Aetherius distance is an infinite distance away from Nirn? Well, there is this:

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Cosmology

This same lore Dovahkiin withstand and defeat this Alduin. You can scale it yourself

And for speed, we are going to have to go to what Vivec stated in ESO about the nature of the gods in TES.

Vivec stated that being timeless is the nature of the gods:

"to be a god:

"It is like being a juggler. Things are always moving, and you learn to know where they are without even thinking about it. Only there are many, many things moving. And sometimes, like any juggler, you drop something. I'm afraid it has become a lot more a matter of dropping things lately. There's too much to do, and not enough time, and I'm losing my touch. Perhaps I'm growing old."

"It is a bit like being at once awake and asleep. Awake, I am here with you, thinking and talking. Asleep, I am very, very busy. Perhaps for other gods, the completely immortal ones, it is only like that being asleep. Out of time. Me, I exist at once inside of time and outside of it"

"It's nice never being dead, too. When I die in the world of time, then I'm completely asleep. I'm very much aware that all I have to do is choose to wake. And I'm alive again. Many times I have very deliberately tried to wait patiently, a very long, long time before choosing to wake up. And no matter how long it feels like I wait, it always appears, when I wake up, that no time has passed at all. That is the god place. The place out of time, where everything is always happening, all at once."

This is supported by the fact that the place the Daedric Princes live in (Oblivion) doesn't have time in it:

Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen says, “Again I interrupt! The mighty Fa-Nuit-Hen, a servant of Hermaeus Mora? By no means! I am a scion of Boethiah, a sovereign demiprince, and I serve no will but my own! As for time, cause, and consequence, let's just say that the laws of the Dragon God do not apply to Oblivion. Oh, it's useful to adopt the trappings of duration when dealing with mortals, so you'll find Maelstrom quite familiar in that regard. We know how lost you feel away from the hand of Akatosh! Maelstrom is far easier to comprehend than Apocrypha—and much more generous in that we award victorious competitors with fabulous prizes!"

And how Alduin exist inside of the space between kalpas, where time doesn't exist:

"[And it came to pass that] a strange thing happened: Alduin the World-Eater, who sleeps between the [kalpas], had a disturbing dream, and he roused slightly, but not enough to bring ruin, and, heavy-lidded, he went back to the [age-wait]. But he yawned just slightly beforeso, which he had never done. And thus was born the Dirt Patch Which Does Not Gather Snow."

Heck, Vivec takes you outside of time in ESO:

business:

"Not very sensible. But very good. I was hoping for someone who would have no hesitations about making such an oath. You will now have a brief, momentary sensation of time passing. Don't be alarmed. You are being taken out of time in order to avoid the unpleasant experience of learning how to use Wraithguard. It will be over before..."

[There is a brief sensation of motion in total darkness, floating, but without a sense of weight or direction.]

Alduin is a literal Nordic God of Destruction and Creation. He is also a massive shard of Aka. So this description should also applies to him. So by scaling, Dovahkiin can easily keep up, and defeat Alduin. He should scale to Alduin dura, AP, and speed. So, it's a stomp, but in favor of the Dovahkiin.

@anobody: I've dealt with most of the arguments and lore statements you've cited already earlier in this thread. The simple fact is Elder Scrolls lore is symbolic and hyperbolic, not supported by canon game events. So your claims of Alduin being able to literally swallow the world and the Dovahkiin being a universe buster are woefully unsupported by any credible evidence. However, I will address 2 of your points directly.

Paarthunax himself stated that if the Dovahkiin didn't kill Alduin, all of Kalpa (timeline) will be destroyed:

Dovahkiin: "The next world will have to take care of itself."

Paarthurnax: "Paaz. A fair answer. Ro fus, maybe you only balance the forces that work to quicken the end of this world. Even we who ride the currents of Time cannot see past Time's end, Wuldsetiid los tahrodiis. Those who try to hasten the end, may delay it. Those who work to delay the end, may bring it closer."

Paarthunax never confirms how long it will take for Alduin to destroy all of Kalpa. Alduin needed to keep going back to Sovengarde to replenish his strength, especially after the Dragonborn defeats him on the Throat of the World. There were no effects from Alduin consuming souls in Sovengarde in Skyrim or Tamriel either, it was contained to Sovengarde.

"He fought Shor inside of the spirit plane, for reference, the spirit plane (Aetherius) exist an infinite distance away from Nirn:

This same lore Dovahkiin withstand and defeat this Alduin. You can scale it yourself

On its own your claim is utterly outlandish but it is further demolished by a canon game event during the Thieves Guild questline where the Dovahkiin is shot by Karliah with a poisoned arrow.

At best arrows fired from a modern compound or recurve bow travel at 225fps or 300fps. In contrast, a bullet from a .38 Smith & Wesson Special used in the 1920s travels 600fps, twice the speed of a compound bow. Even Bryne era Superman who was explicitly powered down was still capable of catching bullets at point blank range and seeing lightning in slow motion and Post Crisis Superman at his peak has moved at FTL speeds and reacted in nanoseconds. The Dovahkiin has never moved anywhere near that fast even with Shouts.

@lvenger: Except for the fact that the game is merely a representation of the TES world which it can't hope to truly show. And in-game stuff you see is merely a game mechanic.

"Could you briefly explain the planning process? We assume there were a lot of preconceived ideas. Did you receive a detailed outline of events that had to be written into the book? How much freedom did you have when it came to your own ideas for the novel?"

GK: Things were pretty wide open, in terms of the story I could tell. I was given a preliminary outline of history after Oblivion, but I was also told that some of it was negotiable. I wrote a number of different short proposals, which were reviewed by my editor and the guys at Bethesda. Once the basic idea was settled on, I wrote a longer, more detailed outline, which then went through a few changes. All through this process I had access to Bruce Nesmith and Kurt Kuhlman at Bethesda, so I could bounce ideas off of them, ask whether I could or couldn't do something. Of course, it had to be a TES story, so I was constrained by lore -- although not, interestingly, by game mechanics. I was told specifically that no one wanted to "hear the dice rolling" so to speak. We are to imagine the world of TES to be a real place, of which the games are merely representations. My book represents that world in another way. Geographical distances, for instance, are contracted in the game -- in my books they aren't, so it takes days or weeks rather than hours to run from one city to another.

TIL: What was the hardest part about writing a novel based on the rather extensive Elder Scrolls history? Conversely, were there things that made your task easy?

GK: Well, it's not unlike writing a historical novel; the amount of lore is daunting because I don't want to get it wrong or re-invent the wheel. On the other hand, when I had a question about something, I could search the Imperial Library for the answer or ask Kurt or Bruce, who usually replied within the day. Finally, there is the game itself; I could walk around virtual Cheydinhal and then imagine everything about it bigger, fuller, more detailed. And of course, a few decades later."

In this interview Greg Keyes stated that he was constrained by the pre-existing lore.

He was forced to a great length to make sure that his books doesn't contradict the TES lore. Unlike the lore, Greg Keyes literally stated that the game is merely a representation of TES real world. You are not supposed to take it as the primary source for feat since it's so inconsistent throughout the Elder Scrolls game from Arena to Skyrim. It can't truly capture the crazy part of it nor can it give an accurate showing of the TES world.

So already, you saying that the game is a more credible source than the lore is debunked.

And saying that Elder Scrolls lore is hyperbolic or symbolic is also wrong. Paarthunax's statements were supported by Michael Kirkbride himself. Statement in "Legate Cyclenophus of the Bretonic Imperial Restoration Society" about how Oblivion is infinite is also supported by Michael Kirkbride. These are supported by writer and developer's words. Take a look at what Todd Howard say about Greybeards shaking the world (which i would imagine you think is also hyperbolic and symbolic):

"The greybeards, the guys who live up on the throat of the world, who are the masters of the voice, they find out about this fairly quickly, and they shout your name. They shout Dovahkiin to the wind, and it kind of rumbles through the world. The mountains shake when they call you. And you think 'what was that,' and someone says 'that was the greybeards calling you. To walk the 7,000 steps up the throat of the world to meet them." - Todd Howard

You are also making way too big of a generalization. Yes in ES there are false accounts, books or texts, but more often than not, if you keep looking for it, you can find the objective truth

Carlovac Townway:

"With all due respect, I think you're overstating things a bit, Sinder. Are there events, personalities, and histories that are in contention? Certainly. Does that mean that there are no facts that are generally accepted amongst the people of the Empire? Not at all. As a historian, it is my job to look at commonly held beliefs -- And there are many of them in Tamriel -- And question them, look for evidence to support and disprove them. I must see them in their political context, both historical and contemporary. Sometimes I must be satisfied with the most likely scenarios, guessing what happened and why based on what happened before and afterwards. And I have to admit to myself that some of my guesses are going to be wrong, and be big enough to admit it when other evidence comes to light. All that said, I don't see history in Tamriel as a completely formless mass with no tentpoles or points of reference. It may be impossible for a historian to be conclusive, but that does not mean that history as a whole is a lie. The truths are there, if you look."

And here is what Michael Kirkbride stated about the Elder Scrolls lore:

"Question: "It's difficult to accuse someone of being wrong for asking the theoretical question "Is it possible, as is the case throughout this game, that some of the writings we find are exaggerated"?"

Michael Kirkbride: I prefer, "It is very possible, as is the case throughout this magical world, that some of the exaggerated claims made about some subjects pale in comparison to the Monkey Truth. ZOMGWTFGIANTFEATHEREDFLUTYRANTS"

MK stated that the "exaggerated" lore pale in comparison to the real truth. This is because the mortal mind can't truly comprehend the real nature of TES gods and universe

Now i'm done with that, let's get to your 2 points

This is in no way an argument and just a way to try to complicate things that are cut clear. Heck, Michael Kirkbride stated that all of Nirn (which contain an ocean made of time) was going to be inside of Alduin's gullet.

"When you consider a place like Tamriel, sometimes it's best to take titles literally. Alduin is the World-Eater. It's not going to be "the end of all *life* as we know it," leaving a barren wasteland of Earthbone dirt... it's going to be the whole of Nirn inside his mighty gullet." - Michael Kirkbride

For your Second point, we don't even know whether the Thieves Guild quests are canon or not and there's literally no lore nor in-game evidences that can confirm this happen. So there's that.

@lvenger: Anyway, i'm going to answer tomorrow, so goodbye for now.

@richard96: How is Superman going to blitz someone faster than him?

@richard96: No way is Clark going to blitz LDB since LDB's speed feat is far greater than anything Clark has ever done.

@anobody: And what is that speed feat?

@xlr87t3: Keeping up and defeating Alduin who by Vivec's own accounts, is completely timeless and who also exist in the space between kalpa (timeline) where time doesn't exist. He also kill twenty-two Jills whose job is to mend time after a Dragonbreak occur.

Assuming Superman is in character, he won't speedblitz right at the start.

Dragonborn can slow time and become ethereal for this to be a good fight. Also depends if shouts are considered magic.

That's not even a speed feat anyways. He is just timeless and immortal, doesn't mean he's FTL

Also, Daedric & Aedric Artifacts are completely and utterly indestructible when they're still backed by their creators, so Superman can only win by BFR since peak level DB has Wolverine-tier healing. But he can BFR in a nanosecond so doesn't really matter much

@xlr87t3: Mate, moving inside of a timeless space while completely transcending the 3-D distance and time is an immeasurable speed feat. Vivec even stated that the gods are so above time that when time doesn't move in the real world, he instead feels like it has been eternity

@richard96: Vivec stated that being timeless is the nature of the gods:

"to be a god:

"It is like being a juggler. Things are always moving, and you learn to know where they are without even thinking about it. Only there are many, many things moving. And sometimes, like any juggler, you drop something. I'm afraid it has become a lot more a matter of dropping things lately. There's too much to do, and not enough time, and I'm losing my touch. Perhaps I'm growing old."

"It is a bit like being at once awake and asleep. Awake, I am here with you, thinking and talking. Asleep, I am very, very busy. Perhaps for other gods, the completely immortal ones, it is only like that being asleep. Out of time. Me, I exist at once inside of time and outside of it"

"It's nice never being dead, too. When I die in the world of time, then I'm completely asleep. I'm very much aware that all I have to do is choose to wake. And I'm alive again. Many times I have very deliberately tried to wait patiently, a very long, long time before choosing to wake up. And no matter how long it feels like I wait, it always appears, when I wake up, that no time has passed at all. That is the god place. The place out of time, where everything is always happening, all at once."

This is supported by the fact that Alduin lives in the space between kalpa where time doesn't exist:

"[And it came to pass that] a strange thing happened: Alduin the World-Eater, who sleeps between the [kalpas], had a disturbing dream, and he roused slightly, but not enough to bring ruin, and, heavy-lidded, he went back to the [age-wait]. But he yawned just slightly beforeso, which he had never done. And thus was born the Dirt Patch Which Does Not Gather Snow."

Heck, Vivec takes you outside of time after that conversation:

business:

"Not very sensible. But very good. I was hoping for someone who would have no hesitations about making such an oath. You will now have a brief, momentary sensation of time passing. Don't be alarmed. You are being taken out of time in order to avoid the unpleasant experience of learning how to use Wraithguard. It will be over before..."

[There is a brief sensation of motion in total darkness, floating, but without a sense of weight or direction.]

@anobody:All Dragons are timeless by definition. And being inside a "timeless space" is just being in his own pocket dimension, or rather the dimension between teleportation (aka Subspace). Nothing indicates he was fighting in that dimension when against Dragonborn, he is not in kalpa 24/7 he had to exit his home to interact with Mundus.

Wabbajack

Superman 1 shots if he blitzes. If he doesn't, his vulnerability to magic will cost him if DB sees him first. But again, a hit from Supes round murder the Dragonborn.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Superman

N-no it isn't. DB can stop time and that is not even all. DB is just far too hax...if this is the movie version of Superman then DB quite literally rapes. The staff of Corruption can make a duplicate Superman, and it's only purpose is to kill the original. Read the lore of the real powers of that Staff it is crazy. then there is the Mehrens Razor that can kill *any* living being with an instant kill. Then there is stuff like soul tear that is pretty much described as being an instant kill. I'll just say that it's 50/50 can go either way...but I'm leaning more so for DB since magic is Supermans weaken.

@xlr87t3:

Irrelevant, since what Vivec describing during that time is not the nature of dragons, but the nature of the Gods, which Alduin is since he is a Nordic God of Destruction and Creation. We also know the context is completely different. Vivec during that Time was describing how the gods transcend time, moving faster than it, and can destroy it at will. While the context in your example is just a way to describe about how dragons are immortal in both body and soul.

Except that Alduin doesn't have his own pocket dimension. It's just a literal space between time where time doesn't exist. A subspace also still have time, which the space between kalpa doesn't have.The space between kalpa is not some sort of space between teleportation. It's not that complicated man

"He is not in kalpa 24/7"

So you mean he is not in Nirn 24/7?

Of course not. That why in my cited text it was stated that Alduin live in the space between kalpa. He doesn't exist solely on Nirn.

Of course he doesn't fight inside of that space. But by scaling from reliable lore, we know that if you can fight a person who is faster than time itself, then you logically have the speed to keep up with him and the power to match him.

This also doesn't change the fact that Dovahkiin fight against Alduin whose power can destroy Nirn that have ocean made of time itself, which i can show you the source, but unfortunately, study gets in the way.

@xlr87t3: Also, Alduin killed twenty-two Thunder-Scaled Jills with each one of them unbound by time.

"There were also the twenty-two Thunder-Scaled Jills unbound by time and so served as Ysmaalithax's oracle-oocytes until Ald'uin would burn them away."

The Jills are known as being the one whose job is to mend linear time after a Dragon Break occur.

Nice to see that the DB wank is getting more asinine as time goes on. Looking forward to him being multiversal because of arbitrary logic, and intentional misconstruing of the lore.

Supes still blitzs and oneshots.

You're right lmao. Kinda forgot about that.

@cooljammy18: No offense, but people who doesn't even read TES lore and had only played it's games have no right to say what is wank and what is not. I already explained why the lore are a much more credible source of information and how Alduin is much more powerful in lore than in-game.

@richard96: Game DB is not even building level, the game version gets one-shotted.

@richard96: That's fine. Most people doesn't know much about the TES lore and how crazy it actually is.

I see people are still being ignorant in here. DB can stop time, so Superman Speed isn't even an issue here. I almost though about posting a link of superman getting wrecked by Mexicans but I am not going to even go there. No one has even posted a rebuttal on how superman is going to win if DB just stops time and Duplicates him with the Skull of Corruption at all. that is a power of the Skull of corruption the real power of it not the dumbed down version in skyrim. Skull of Corruption duplicates people and it sole propose is to kill the original.

@mygod101: Not to mention some Daedric Artifact such as Mehrunes ' Razor that allow Mankar Camoran to warp reality so that he can become a Dragonborn. Dovahkiin can just literally wrap Super out of existence

Exactly, people need to do research instead of just arguing out of their asses. Seriously, this is a Dragonborn with what ever gear in Skyrim we want him to have? Our you Fking Kidding me.....Auriel's Shield, Ebony Mail+ Skull of Corruption+ soul tear. This is almost Rape and unfair, but I'll say it's 50/50 could go either way but Dragonborn has so many ways he can just instant kill superman not to forget stat manipulation moves as well.

Superman doesn't even have anywhere near the power to break these weapons, even the Weakest Daedric prince is casually high Multiversal+ level.

Mehrunes would require he actually be able to pierce the skin of someone who can take a building to the chest without drawing blood.

Even the Tribunal wouldn't stand a chance against Superman. Magic is the only thing that could possibly affect him, and he's just too fast. The ONLY thing that could save him is time stop, and Superman can fly around the planet 3 times in the time it takes him to shout the words to it.

Even indestructible armor doesn't help, Superman can hit him so hard that he would turn to paste inside that armor. And Daedric Princes affect realms and planes, not universes. I've played all the games, read most of the books, most of the lore, and much of the source material. A huge part of Elder Scrolls 1-3 involved finding out that most of the Daedra just weren't as powerful as their lore made them out to be. We even find out that several of the gods aren't even gods, and their powers are waning in both Daggerfall and Morrowind. And this is beyond the Tribunal, btw. A lot of what's in the lore and mythos is just that, lore and mythos. We meet Sheogorath, we learn of his downfall, and we learn some of his limitations. The same goes for Mehrune, and Alduin.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay