Dragonborn vs blackbolt

And none of that means a thing when he is frozen in time and unable to do a thing. Seriously people. How is he supposed to do anything when he is completely frozen?

Because you know the "SLOW TIME" shout doesn't completely freeze anything right? Regardless if you're in Dragon Aspect mode, have the Necromage perk as a Vampire, have the Stability perk, and with all three Words of Power, you still don't completely freeze anything. Black Bolt is destructive capabilities have exceeded pretty much any feat Dovahkiin has done and all of the Ancient Tongues, Jurgen, Wulfarth etc. Black Bolt is fast enough to overwhelm Dovahkiin, he can create very powerful shields with his energy manipulation, a mere whisper from BB has shown Sentry discomfort and even nervousness, actually a whisper has KO the Hulk I believe. He's freaking survive a a T-bomb at ground zero, Dovahkiin honestly CAN'T hurt him, or would have a hard time at doing it. His only options are using magic or the more obscure Shouts like Soul Tear or Bend Will, but Black Bolt could manipulate the electrons in the surrounding area of the Dragonborn and just suspend him in the air and proceed to deal with him as he pleases. DB would have trouble just tagging him. Black Bolt can also manipulate electrons in a person's brain and disable them instantly.....yes he has done that before. Hell, his voice rends molecules itself, I question if Become Ethereal would completely protect him considering the conditions here.

I know my Elder Scrolls lore and I don't see DB beating Black Bolt. Black Bolt is just more powerful and has a plethora of abilities that gives him the win here. I seriously wonder at the misrepresentation of the Dragonborn on this site. He's extremely powerful undoubtedly though, but BB is just above him.

According to Vsauce2 the Dragonborn can create a black hole with his shout.

/thread

Oh yeah, nevermind I take everything back.

black bolt is ridiculously overrated

Now, what you aren't understanding is this is a dragonborn that ignores the whole cooldown on shouts, he can continuously use them, and even string them together while the effects of one shout are still in effect. Black Bolt has NOT shown speed capable of ignoring being slowed down to next to nothing. Another thing you don't seem to understand is that while Dragonborn is ethereal NOTHING hurts him, period. And with no cooldown on the shouts he can stay Ethereal forever, while keeping Black Bolt moving at less than the speed of a turtle compared to Flash, while using those more obscure shouts like Soul Rip and draining Black Bolts health a little at a time. There is literally nothing Black Bolt can do to stop a Dragonborn that is not limited by the game aspect of having a cooldown on the shouts. Then, you also have spells, he can sit there using his shouts, healing himself from any damage with one hand and casting destructive spells with his other at any time, or even cast illusion or alteration spells. There is literally thousands of things the Dragonborn, unhindered by game mechanics, can do to stop Black Bolt and almost nothing Black Bolt can do to him.

Altought i like Dovahkiin more he will probably loose.

Lore Dovahkiin has amazing feats.

One more time, since people either can't seem to understand or are just ignoring it because they have no answer. What exactly would Black Bolt do to a Dragonborn that is Ethereal at all times? Remember, when he becomes Ethereal NOTHING hurts him.

First of all, I know he has no cooldown, I already know that. I know what a single Dragonborn is capable of in lore, so don't insult my knowledge in this area. Funny enough since the Last Dragonborn himself/herself from Skyrim doesn't have any official lore statements as of late so I don't get where all of this "Lore Dragonborn" stuff is coming from. Don't assume I don't understand anything here. I would question whether you understand that most of Dovahkiin's attacks wouldn't harm Black Bolt to any degree whatsoever. Or if you understand that Dovahkiin can't do anything while in an ethereal state without materializing and being susceptible to Black Bolt's wide variety of attacks. Are you even aware of what Black Bolt can do or are you just going off of what I've said about him so far? He can do a LOT more than just using his voice. What happens when BB would simply manipulate the electrons in Dovahkiin's brain or just mindwipe him completely before he can even react? What happens IF Dovahkiin manages to use the Become Ethereal shout and Black Bolt just simply fly high up in the air and leveled the entire area below him, since the Dragonborn hasn't show any capability of levitating or flying in this state? Explain why he can't simply blitz him and one shot him since he's massively faster and stronger than him. If BB even decides to use an ionic shield, what would the Dragonborn do to counter that? His whisper, just making a mere sound with his breath, would disintegrate Dovahkiin along with any Hold of Skyrim before the Dragonborn can actually form a dragon word to utilized his Thu'um.

I don't think YOU understand why Black Bolt can definitely win this or are just ignoring the possibility because you think it would diminish the Last Dragonborn's character in any way. He has too many variables going on for him here, and you're greatly overestimating Dovahkiin while largely downplaying Black Bolt.

Again with this tone. Simple, an Ethereal Dovahkiin is incapable of doing anything against Black Bolt in this state without the risk of materializing. Again, Black Bolt just simply flies away due to this absolute fact with no evidence proving this wrong. Or he could just simply whisper and destroy this the area around the Dovahkiin, making it extremely difficult for him when he has to materialize to make a move, which will prove futile since BB could just whisper, or blast him with a charge concussive force, or mindrape him with a wave of charge electrons, or speed blitz him into the ground, or toy with his body by utilizing electromagnetic forces, all of this before DB has a chance to properly form a Word of Power.

Look, I love the Dragonborn and think he's very powerful and even to a degree underrated, but against a person with the abilities of Black Bolt he's pushing his luck. Realistically, his best choices are, Bend Will, Marked For Death, Soul Tear, and Slow Time since these are the only Shouts that would severely harm him when used together. However, most of them are easily avoidable or would be completely blocked or repelled by Black Bolt. BB most certainly has the capability to take him down before getting of the Slow Time shout, and I'm sure he would still be fast enough to get a hit in while under it's effects. Dovahkiin's best bet here is using Slow TIme, but I don't see it happening in time.

Sorry for coming off as a little aggressive, just get a little passionate in any thread with an Elder Scrolls character.

First off, there was no insult in there whatsoever. Don't make accusations based on nothing. Second off, I didn't mention Lore Dragonborn at all. I said the Dragonborn without the cooldown because that is what this battle is, it does not mention the Lore Dragonborn at all.

As for your scenario, explain how Black Bolt would do any of that while being stuck in the massively slowed down time the entire time. Simple. Dragonborn opens with the time slow shout, then does whatever he wants to Black Bolt while Black Bolt can't do a thing to him. The time slow shout has a set amount of time it stays active, but with no cooldown it can stay active permanently because when it is about to run out he can simply shout it again. Again, it's simple, Time Slow, Soul Tear, Drain Vitality, Elemental Fury, Marked for Death. And he could simply spam those shouts. Then that is only using his voice, he still has open hands to cast spells with. One possible scenario would be to do Time Slow, then Drain Vitality with Vampiric Drain at the same time and just keep doing that over and over until Black Bolt simply dies from losing all his health. While he is in the Time Slow there is absolutely nothing he can do. He could also Summon Durnehviir to help kill Black Bolt while once again Black Bolt is stuck doing nothing.

And you keep saying that Black Bolt can do "all of this" before Dragonborn can do anything. Since when does Black Bolt have super speed? And since when can he move through a time slow as if it were nothing? You are making up scenario's for Black Bolt to win while ignoring a lot of what the Dragonborn can do. And yes, if Dragonborn does something while Ethereal he becomes solid again, however that doesn't stop him from becoming ethereal(if he even needed to) to stop from being hurt by whatever Black Bolt did, and doing the time slow shout so that even when he becomes solid again Black Bolt is still in the time slow. I'm sorry, but I simply don't see a way Black Bolt can win this unless he somehow surprises the Dragonborn before he shouts. And nobody as yet has made a convincing argument for him to win it without completely ignoring what the Dragonborn can do. And again, there was no insult in either of my posts, so don't make baseless accusations.

Blackbolt accidently sneezes.

@randomsid: Speedwise, Black Bolt has constantly speedblitzed Quicksilver and was fast enough to counter FTL attacks by Gladiator. That and he has stalemated Sentry twice so I'm leaning towards him here unless you can convince me otherwise.

Quicksilver is a massive Jobber, and many people have been able to counter FTL attacks by Gladiator. Hulk has stalemated Sentry also, that doesn't make him have massive speed. He is quicker than people give him credit for however. But it still doesn't mean much when all it takes is a few words and he's stuck moving slower than a turtle compared to the flash.

@randomsid: This is a 50/50 fight here. If Black Bolt hits the Dragonborn first he one-shots, if the Dragonborn hits BB first, Black Bolt is screwed. Black Bolt however has a slight physical and power advantage so he has an extra 5 percent chance of winning. Unless Black Bolt speedblitz him since it has been an established fact for a long time that BB has always and will be faster than Quicksilver. ( Only problem is QS is a jobber, like you've stated, and I can't find an established speed feat for BB)

Yes, if Black Bolt managed to hit the Dragonborn first, he stands a good chance of winning, but I don't see that happening when all the Dragonborn has to do is say 3 words.

I see that you actually agreed on the Become Ethereal point. Fact of the matter is, it's completely counter productive for Dovahkiin going in and out of it on a whim and wouldn't do much for him in this fight. Everything I said about Black Bolt taking him down is based on actual feats that he has consistently perform, not speculation, and it's pretty damn obvious he has super speed, which again refers to my point on whether you have actual knowledge on BB's abilities other than the fact that he has a powerful voice. From the way you're explaining things here have me believe that you think BB is an absolute imbecile and will not utilized his abilities to actually fight here. You really believe he wouldn't just open his mouth and make a sound at all during any of this? Vampiric Drain? So Dovahkiin is randomly a vampire for the sake of this fight now, or am I missing something here? Also, what I meant about you insulting my knowledge in this area was, not that you're literally insulting me, but more like you yourself are assuming I'm not aware of what DB can do. I'm aware of what both fighters can do here, and I think my opinion is pretty unbiased..

One, your explanation on how those Shouts work without a cooldown timer is speculation in itself. Those specific shouts themselves were never describe in detail in lore so no one knows what it's truly capable of so we mostly go off of what's shown in gameplay. Two, again, no one is completely frozen while the Slow Time shout is active. Black Bolt is for a fact, faster than pretty much anything DB has ever faced. The destruction caused by his voice is instantaneous, as evident as every time he uses it. Everything in it's path is completely obliterated in a sec on panel. Even while being slowed down, you must understand that Dovahkiin himself is actually effected to a degree with the same shout, as the only evidence we have is in gameplay and anything else is speculation, so even then all BB has to do is make a sound and that will be it. He CANNOT avoid the pathway of annihilation that will fall on him once he's in a vulnerable spot for BB to actually whisper at him. Becoming Ethereal will do absolutely nothing to give him any sort of advantage here whatsoever. The few options the Dragonborn actually has aren't going to do much show he will not have the appropriate time to even properly use it before BB takes him out. He is totally outclassed physically against someone that has fought against top tiers like the Hulk, Thor, Gladiator, etc and even defeat them multiple times. BB just has too many feats I'm not bother to list at this time due to a long day. I recommend you look through a respect thread of his to understand where I'm coming from here. If you want to ignore any possibility of him winning based on arbitrary reasons, well that's on you reason. Again, I'm not downplaying Dragonborn at all, I'll be generous and say that he would put up a fight and wouldn't get fodderized, but I still don't see him winning.

The thing is, Black Bolt is capable of doing that. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that he has a good chance of winning though.

I guess we are simply going to have to agree to disagree. You don't seem to be using the dragonborn to his fullest ability and assume he would lose because of that. The dragonborn is one of the few we can actually say what we would do with his powers because we basically already control him. Most other characters we have to debate on what they would do based on how they fight in the past. I've almost never seen Black Bolt open a battle by screaming at his opponent.

@cooljammy18: Just so you know, the Dragonborn does in fact have a way to kill Black Bolt, which is Mehrunes' Razor. The question is, can the Dragonborn even hit him? The lore doesn't tell much about the Dragonborn's physical capabilities other than its ability to go toe-to-to with superhuman beings like Harkon and dragons, which is quite vague. However, the game does reveal to us the DB's reflexes & combat speed with the perk "Quick Reflexes". I've been researching the effects of that perk, and I've come to the conclusion that that perk is far more powerful than the Slow Time shout. Slow Time only makes you 10 times faster, while the Quick Reflexes makes you fast enough to jog circles around a speeding arrow that's moving like 4 miles per hour. I don't think that the elongation glitch of that perk effects the actual "slowness", so yeah.

I'm not downplaying DB at all honestly. I know very well what Dovahkiin is capable of, and I would argue for him in a lot of battles where I feel he would win it. It's just that Black Bolt has the powerset that's just too much for him/her to handle imo. Black Bolt has used his Voice instantly against Thanos, of course..it's freaking Thanos, and against a couple of Skrulls IIRC, nothing suggesting he wouldn't do it here, especially since he can read minds he would anticipate anything the DB might do. I really can't stressed enough why BB would win here, but if you want to agree to disagree then I don't have an issue that.

Dragonborn is definitely at least peak human, arguably super. Vampire Lords are incredibly powerful and very fast as implied by their powerset and Dovahkiin fought Harkon is a closed, interior space. In that condition, he needed to evade his attacks and gain the opening to use his Thu'um presumably, the same goes for the various of Dragon Priests, Dragons, soul stealing Necromancers etc that Dovahkiin fights on a daily basis. DB definitely has good physicals, but what I'm getting at here is that BB is massively above him in all physical areas to the point that it would be extremely difficult to tag him with any sort of attack.

@cooljammy18: Physically, there's very little difference between the Dragonborn and Wolverine. Especially when I can throw cave bears through the air with a shield charge (cave bears averaging 880-1100 lbs). As for this debate, if DB had used Slow Time in conjunction with Elemental Fury and his reflexes, he would still not be even 1/3 the speed of light. Fact is, Black Bolt could send him/her floating into outer space in less than a second.

So I take it you agree with BB most likely winning?

@cooljammy18: Yes, especially by instant BFR with a flick of his fingers.

Nice. :)

@cooljammy18: Dovahkiin stomps

Still Blackbolt.

Black Bolt wins handily.

Lore Dragonborn destroys Black Bolt before he even knows he's in a battle.

Technically, Dragonborn doesn't have any canon feats or an ACTUAL skill set because his/her powers, skills, and feats can vary greatly depending on the player's choices. So, if we're saying Dragonborn is at a low level, then Black Bolt wins. If he/she is at a high level, then the Dragonborn wins. But really, it depends on what skills, feats, and abilities the player gives to the Dragonborn. To be honest however, since the Dragonborn doesn't have any TRUE feats and accomplishments, which also comes to show that Dragonborn is pretty much not very powerful, I'd say Black Bolt takes this one. Like, completely.

Right. Unless LDB is powerful enough to one shot Gladiator with a syllable, destroy a Shiar fleet and open a tear in space, and do Rhode Island sized damage then LDB gets stomped.

Lore Dragonborn is an abstract busting warrior. He was able to destroy Alduin who was more than capable of consuming Nirn and rearranging the beings across Aurbis, he has power comparable to Galactus and the Dragonborn was literally designed to beat him.

Black Bolt busting a Rhode Island sized territory is barely even comparable to Miraak dispatching Solstheim from mainland Skyrim. Lore Last Dragonborn is far above that. I stand by my comment.

Mismatch, TLD stomps effortlessly.

Dovahkiin blitz and one-shout BB.

All the while chugging down 80 cheese wheels and 100 cabbages XD

Yeah, slow down time shout, ethereal shout, shout of death and an unrelenting force shout, GG.

@mr-otaku: For some reason, I can't decide whether you are being genuine or just messing around.

Aw man, that hurt my feelings :'(

But okay, truth be told, even when i'm being genuine i still mess around a bit lol.

@mr-otaku: Oh, sorry about that LOL. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

@anobody: Lol that's okay, i rarely ever make comments without adding some subtle yet exaggerated remarks like that. XD

Also what's your total hours in Skyrim? Favorite race? Favorite build?

@mr-otaku: My total hours in Skyrim is probably around 2000 hours. The only race that I've ever played with is Nord, so that's my favorite race. And my favorite build is the Blades build, but without killing the Paarthunax part, so I installed the Paarthunax Dilemma mod. I always wonder why Bethesda never give us the option to refuse the Blades without locking you out of their other interactions. What about you?

@anobody: Oh that's cool. Mine is around 1500 hours or so, 98% of which i played with Nord as well, 2% with Breton. I did play with all races just to see what it's like but they were just for experimenting and lasted for 15 or 20 minutes, so they don't count. My favorite build would be Ebony build, but i have spent quite a bit of time with all kinds of builds, including Blades. I never liked the Blades (the faction) really, i mean, the idea of killing Paarthunax felt really odd and out of place.

I'm the fucking Dovahkiin! I have the power to slay the world eater and i restored the Blade's position in the first place, so why do those two get to order me around and tell me i can't get into the temple if i don't do what they say? Bethesda really should've added an option here. Dovahkiin's in charge, not Delphine!

@mr-otaku: Exactly! We should at least have an option to kill those two LOL! It would be cool if we could ally with the Greybeards and assault the Sky Haven Temple as one of the option in the Paarthunax's quest. Then again, if the Greybeards were to fight, the freaking landscape would change.

Anyway, we should get back on topic and not derail this (dead) thread. Good talk though!

Considering that the dragonborn couldn't react to an arrow shot at him by Karliah, in a scripted event, from the thieve guild quest, which is the closest thing to a cinematic in the game, then blackbolt blitz him.

LDB is not blitzing anybody with his human level speed.

@cramem: Except that he can Blitz Black Bolt. Please show me where it's stated by the developers that the guilds' questlines are canon.

Canon or not, it doesn't matter. It's a scripted event. It's "how thing should have gone if you've joined the thieve's guild".

We also judge the dragonborn speed with his fight against the dragon in the skyrim trailer:

MFTL+ indeed.

@cramem: That's literally your own interpretation and head canon. If it's non-canon, then it doesn't happen, and you can scale it to the canon Dovahkiin. And again, please tell me where it's stated that the trailer are canon? By your logic, then the canon Dragonborn is a male Nord, which we all know is not confirmed by Bethesda themself.

XD, so this is your "argument"?

What didn't you understand in "Scripted event?" Those trailers, finishing moves and scripted events are indicatives of the LDB speed level.

@cramem: I understand it completely. What i'm arguing is whether said anti-feat can be used since the canonicity of said anti-feat is questionable. And again, i ask you for a developers' statement that confirm that both the trailer and the guild's questline are canon, and you have given me nothing.

And again, those finishing move are gameplay mechanic. They are made to look cool, and MFTL finishing move that you can't even see is not fun at all.

@anobody: Yeah!

@cramem: Except, Karliah shot the Dragonborn from a blindspot and he/she was poisoned. So that doesn't work.

What anti-feat? There isn't a single feat that suggest that the LDB is supersonic, let alone FTL.

Finishing moves are also indicatives of the LDB speed level. There isn't a single finishing move where you travel around nirn 7,5 time to infinite mass punch your opponent.

The only argument the fans use to wank the ldb speed is "the bow of Auriel". There is absolutely not a single supersonic feat from the LDB, not even with the gameplay mechanics.

The single thing that he could do to have actually achieve supersonic speed is: "Slowdown time shout+ Whirlwind sprint shout"

And of course the people at Bethesda would made the finishing move MFTL. I mean, it's not like they are making it for the player's enjoyment, right?

XD, can't tell if you are trolling or not, i saw you on another thread trying to argue that the ldb speedblitz superman, so i don't know XD. Where did bethesda say that the dragonborn is MFLT+?

The trailer is pretty explicit about bethesda's intentions.