Dragon Ball Martial Arts Tournament

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P00TY

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I've never been good at scaling DB characters. And i'm WAY BEHIND on the series. So I'd like your help. Simply pick who wins each match. If you can add the difficulty level that would be appreciated(low, mid, high difficulty). Some fighters will be used more than once

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1) Frieza(the version that originally fought SS1 Goku) vs current Krillin

2) Current Android 18 vs Current Krillin

3) Current Piccolo vs Perfect Cell

4) Current Base Goku vs Evil Majin Buu

5) Hit(end of 1st tournament vs Current Gohan

6) Golden Freiza vs Current Gohan

7) Current Goku vs Current Beerus

8) Current Goku/Current Vegeta vs Whis

9) Current Vegeta vs Current Hit

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LimitlessSigil

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Krillin Low diff Was doing fine against an opponent that 18 was having trouble with

Android 18 probably not sure, a guess

Piccolo Mid-High diff

Goku Low diff Absorbed God ki into his base so...

Not sure

Frieza Mid diff

Goku Extreme diff I give MUI Goku the slight majority over Beerus

Whis Low diff Capable of putting Beerus to sleep casually who like I said previously should be relative to Goku

Vegeta Mid diff Can't see hit being as strong as God Toppo

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noobsnowman

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#4  Edited By noobsnowman

1. Krillin, he managed to hold his own against the likes of Imperfect Cell.

2. Android 18, obviously.

3. Piccolo, at this point he was stronger than SSJ2 Gohan.

4. Depends. Does he have mortal ki or godly ki? Mortal ki Goku loses but Godly ki Goku stomps.

5. Hit destroys. Gohan has no answer to Time Skip.

6. Frieza takes it with difficulty.

7. MUI Goku edges over Beerus due to mastering UI, while Beerus hasn't

8. Whis stomps.

9. Hit. Vegeta does not know how to counter Time Skip. Further, Hit contended and nearly defeated Jiren who was operating at a power that destroyed the likes of SSBKKx20 Goku, Vegeta's equal - all while fighting restricted and not intending to kill. Hit is canonically stated to need to kill in order to fight at his best, in which he didn't against Jiren. Nevertheless, regardless of whether he is restricted against Vegeta, he wins this, and it's far from a contest.

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P00TY

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@noobsnowman: Thanks. Did you say that Vegeta is equal to SSBKK20 Goku ?

What technique does Vegeta have that increases his power the way KK20 increases Goku?

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#6  Edited By noobsnowman

@p00ty: Correct. His new Super Saiyan Blue Evolved form, a new transformation that indicates Vegeta's breaking of his old limits, enabled him to contend with a a suppressed Jiren equally as well as SSBKKx20 Goku did.

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LimitlessSigil

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@noobsnowman: He should have a rough idea of how to counter it, he watched Goku fight him. Also, Hit never nearly defeated Jiren, that sounds a bit ridiculous.

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noobsnowman

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#8  Edited By noobsnowman

@limitlesssigil: But when he faced Hit by himself, even after seeing how Hit fights, he wasn't able to understand the technique. He admitted that adjusting one's body to constantly predict attacks is extremely difficult even for himself. When Goku watched Vegeta fight Hit, he didn't get any real knowledge on how to counter Hit either, he understood them by tanking his blows. Goku figured it out, Vegeta did not.

And a rough idea isn't enough. He needs to have a thorough understanding of not only seeing how the attack works, but how to counter attack accordingly. If a rough idea is all Vegeta has, then it's an easy victory for Hit.

Well, Hit's punch hurled Jiren to the edge of the ring, any distance further and Jiren would be out. And it took Jiren all he had to get out of the Cage of Time, for a while he couldn't even move his fingers. Either way, a much more spectacular performance against Jiren unlike SSBKKx20 Goku, Vegeta's equal.

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LoveEveryone

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#9  Edited By LoveEveryone

Note: it would’ve been cool if one of the battles were Current Vegeta vs Current Goku (without ultra instinct)

1) R1 Krillin takes this quite easily

2) R2 Android 18 is still superior to Krillin but it’s not a stomp

3) R3 Piccolo has surpassed SSJ2 Boo Saga Goku, let alone Super Cell.

4) R4 Base Goku has fought equally with final form frieza, who Gohan said was the strongest power they faced. And this was BEFORE Frieza went Golden. And current base Goku is way stronger than ROF base Goku. His base should be way stronger than GT base.

5) R5 Hit is more versatile but if Gohan can catch on to his moves he will win, as he made Pre TOP Goku transform into SSJ Blue Kaio Ken. And this Goku is stronger than the one that fought Hit. So leaning forwards Current Gohan who should be only a little weaker than standard SSJ Blue TOP Goku.

6) R6 Frieza has already shown to be superior to Gohan in their standoff. True Form Golden Frieza stalemated Pre TOP SSJ Blue Goku. And Golden Frieza did better in the Tourtament than Gohan.

7) R7 Goku can only beat and surpass Beerus with Ultra Instinct. He should more or less be equal to or only a little stronger than Beerus with Ultra Instinct. But with Mastered White Hair UI he can easily stomp Beerus and all the other Gods.

8) R8 Even working together they don’t have the AP to take down Whis. Mastered UI Goku is probably equal to Whis, and Vegeta is a weak link here.

9) R9 Vegeta can stalemate Hit with just SSJ Blue Form since he knows how his technique works. And if he uses Shiny Blue / Shinka Form he stomps Hit.

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MainJP

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1. Krillin stomps Freeza Low-Diff. Like it or not Krillin has visible, undeniable, quantifiable feats of physically going toe to toe with guys who were giving 18 trouble. He’s beyond this version of Freeza.

2. 18 probably Mid-Diff.

3. Piccolo stomps Cell Low-Diff. He was stomping SSJ2 Gohan just before the TOP.

4. Goku Low-Diff.

5. Hit takes a shit on Gohan Low-Diff. Gohan has little to no skill and can’t counter Hit’s Time related abilities.

6. Freeza probably High-Diff.

7. Goku Super High-Diff.

8. Whis Low-Diff’s the shit out of Goku and Vegeta. Two-Shots.

9. Hit High-Diff. Vegeta still can’t counter Hit’s Time Skip or Time Cage for that matter and still performed better against Jiren than Vegeta.

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Karkus

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@noobsnowman:

Krillin, he managed to hold his own against the likes of Imperfect Cell.

Scans?

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P00TY

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baph

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#13  Edited By baph

1) Frieza(the version that originally fought SS1 Goku) vs current Krillin - Krillin wins

2) Current Android 18 vs Current Krillin - A18 wins.

3) Current Piccolo vs Perfect Cell - Piccolo.

4) Current Base Goku vs Evil Majin Buu - Goku.

5) Hit(end of 1st tournament vs Current Gohan - Hit handily.

6) Golden Freiza vs Current Gohan - Frieza handily.

7) Current Goku vs Current Beerus - Current Goku can't use MUI so Beerus stomps.

8) Current Goku/Current Vegeta vs Whis - Whis one-shots.

9) Current Vegeta vs Current Hit - Probably Vegeta, though i can see Hit winning if he starts all out.

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baph

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@mainjp said:

1. Krillin stomps Freeza Low-Diff. Like it or not Krillin has visible, undeniable, quantifiable feats of physically going toe to toe with guys who were giving 18 trouble. He’s beyond this version of Freeza.

2. 18 probably Mid-Diff.

3. Piccolo stomps Cell Low-Diff. He was stomping SSJ2 Gohan just before the TOP.

4. Goku Low-Diff.

5. Hit takes a shit on Gohan Low-Diff. Gohan has little to no skill and can’t counter Hit’s Time related abilities.

6. Freeza probably High-Diff.

7. Goku Super High-Diff.

8. Whis Low-Diff’s the shit out of Goku and Vegeta. Two-Shots.

9. Hit High-Diff. Vegeta still can’t counter Hit’s Time Skip or Time Cage for that matter and still performed better against Jiren than Vegeta.

Current Goku can't use MUI, how is he going to beat Beerus?

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MainJP

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#15  Edited By MainJP

@baph: I assumed it was Goku at his best which is MUI, no? But yeah, it’s not in the OP. Then Beerus stomps I guess.

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noobsnowman

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@karkus: It's in the anime, they fought on the plane, Krillin he held out for a while but lost in the end decisively.

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Krillin in somewhat of a close fight. Krillin was wrecked by Frieza's TK before, he would be far from intimidated.

18 probably handily.

Cell stomps.

Goku stomps.

Hit stomps.

Golden Frieza medium diff.

Beerus low difficulty.

Whis stomps.

Vegeta stomps.

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DeathHero61

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@karkus said:

@noobsnowman:

Krillin, he managed to hold his own against the likes of Imperfect Cell.

Scans?

This was anime filler

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1) Frieza(the version that originally fought SS1 Goku) vs current Krillin : after a mid-diff fight.

2) Current Android 18 vs Current Krillin

3) Current Piccolo vs Perfect Cell : not sure :(

4) Current Base Goku vs Evil Majin Buu

5) Hit(end of 1st tournament vs Current Gohan

6) Golden Freiza vs Current Gohan

7) Current Goku vs Current Beerus : you need to be clear if Goku can utilize Ultra Instinct if not Beerus stomps.

8) Current Goku/Current Vegeta vs Whis : same comment as the previous one, however I would still doubt MUI Goku and Beyond Blue Vegeta to defeat Whis since he barely has feats and is said to be overpowered.

9) Current Vegeta vs Current Hit : I would say Vegeta after a tough fight.

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noobsnowman

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@deathhero61: Ah, didn't know about that. Conceded, then.

Then I'll defer my judgment because I don't know enough about Krillin to have a say.

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LoveEveryone

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#21  Edited By LoveEveryone

@empressofdread: Krillin stomps round 1 and Piccolo surpassed cell before Tourtament of power even begin

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Jooosh1996

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@p00ty said:

1) Frieza(the version that originally fought SS1 Goku) vs current Krillin Krillin

2) Current Android 18 vs Current Krillin 18

3) Current Piccolo vs Perfect Cell Piccolo

4) Current Base Goku vs Evil Majin Buu Goku

5) Hit(end of 1st tournament vs Current Gohan Hit

6) Golden Freiza vs Current Gohan Frieza

7) Current Goku vs Current Beerus Beerus

8) Current Goku/Current Vegeta vs Whis Whis (In a stomp)

9) Current Vegeta vs Current Hit Vegeta

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deactivated-5bd7259f43c35

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@p00ty said:

1) Frieza(the version that originally fought SS1 Goku) vs current Krillin Krillin

2) Current Android 18 vs Current Krillin 18

3) Current Piccolo vs Perfect Cell Piccolo

4) Current Base Goku vs Evil Majin Buu Goku

5) Hit(end of 1st tournament vs Current Gohan Hit

6) Golden Freiza vs Current Gohan Frieza

7) Current Goku vs Current Beerus Beerus

8) Current Goku/Current Vegeta vs Whis Whis (In a stomp)

9) Current Vegeta vs Current Hit Vegeta

How are you so sure that current Beerus would win against Goku as he has ultra instinct?

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Cerberus369616

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1) Frieza(the version that originally fought SS1 Goku) vs current Krillin

Depends on your train of thought when scaling. if you think that there was a steady power increase for all characters as some guide books and classic DBZ scaling says then Krillin should be a good bit more powerful at his peak. If you Follow the train of thought that the only things applicable to scaling is quantifiable progress shown in the series or specifically noted by multiple characters (i.e. everyone's improvements while training for the androids) then killin shouldn't have improved much himself. One could argue his showings in the ToP and against SSB Goku prior to the ToP says he has gotten a lot stronger but there is supposed context and his own words in regards to his training and a few low showings contradict that so it's hard to say.

2) Current Android 18 vs Current Krillin

18 should win, you could make an argument for Krillin but 18 simply has better showings in the Anime and manga in ToP so it's probably pretty consistent with how Toriyama feels overall.

3) Current Piccolo vs Perfect Cell

Piccolo has some pretty good showings. Again this could be based on your method of scaling just like Krillin vs Frieza but Piccolo has good showings against Frost, Goku in a training fight and Super Namekians in the anime so by feats alone he should be superior to Perfect Cell.

4) Current Base Goku vs Evil Majin Buu

I'd back Goku. It's harder to say for sure but general consensus is Goku can still access God Ki in Base, he's got really god showing sin base in Anime filler, including fighting a Superior Buu to Evil buu while in base.

5) Hit(end of 1st tournament vs Current Gohan

I'd back Hit. Gohan has the juice to win but Hit requires a skill level of fighting or raw power that Gohan simply doesn't have. Even in the manga where Gohan beats Kefla via skill I'd still back Hit, especially if he has access to assassination techniques.

6) Golden Freiza vs Current Gohan

Close, but I'd back Golden Frieza. Again he has more Raw power (and frieza's skill level isn't that bad, maybe even underated) imo but I think Gohan gives him some problems.

7) Current Goku vs Current Beerus

Beerus. I might get crucified for this but I'd even back beerus over MUI Goku either via timing MUI out or being outright skilled enough cope with it. imho the statements around Jiren's superiority to GoD's are rather vague and the statements around how close in power Goku has been to Beerus are also ever changing and vague so I'd just place them both in a broad tier of "God of Destruction level" With SSBKKx20, SSBE, Sidra and a few others at the bottom and Beerus, Jiren and MUI Goku at the tippy top with anyone within a few places of the other having the ability to take each other out.

8) Current Goku/Current Vegeta vs Whis

Whis bodies, he has a far more complete version of Ultra Instinct at his disposal.

9) Current Vegeta vs Current Hit

Close one and I'd say a toss up.

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Jooosh1996

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@zacharytheblue: Current Goku can‘t use MUI when he pleases. Chances are he wouldn‘t be pushed to his limit by Beerus and tested as Jiren did. Beerus would just go straight for the finish.

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1: Definitely Frieza. Krillin may have come a long way, but he's still not at Super Saiyan level.

2: 18. Again, while Krillin is a better fighter, he can't contend with the likes of 18 for long.

3: Perfect Cell. Piccolo has certainly gotten stronger, but there's no indication to say he's reached SS2 levels.

4: Current Base Goku. His level at base has become so high it's almost outclassed every other fighter that isn't transformed. Copy Vegeta himself tanked a kicked from SS3 Gotenks without flinching.

5: Hit. Gohan is strong, but he's not quite as strong as Goku at his best. As such, Hit, who can deal with someone as strong as Goku with Kaio Ken on top of SSB, Gohan can't win, especially when fighting his best techniques.

6: Ooh, this one is MUCH harder to decide.....I'd have to go with Golden Frieza. Gohan is very strong, but there is a tenacity and strength to Frieza that Gohan lacks. It's probably the ability to play dirty and just win, regardless of how it's done. Besides, while both managed to face off against SSB Goku, only one managed to fight multiple battles in the ToP and STILL end up as one of the final fighters struggling to win.

7: Beerus. As strong as Goku can potentially get with MUI, he has no control over it yet. Beerus is still a bonafied GoD and possibly one of the strongest if the manga canon holds up. While it's possible Goku can contend now, there's no confirmation he can win yet.

8: Whis. No one comes close to the angels yet, not by a long shot.

9: Current Vegeta. Hit may be able to hold on for a good long time and his techniques are dangerous, but Vegeta was able to somehow defeat a psuedo-GoD and attained a level of power all his own. It'll be tough, but this is Vegeta's fight to lose.

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@empressofdread: Krillin stomps round 1 and Piccolo surpassed cell before Tourtament of power even begin

Cell stomps Piccolo, too many abilities that Piccolo can't counter. Not that I think Piccolo has surpassed SPC before TOP why do you think that?

Krillin can still get ragdolled with TK just like last time and "pop goes the weasel"

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LoveEveryone

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#28  Edited By LoveEveryone

@empressofdread: Piccolo stomped SSJ2 Gohan in their Training, this version of Gohan was out of practice but STILL stronger than his cell games version. They both get stronger after this battle before Tourtament of power.

Krillin was fighting someone equally who Android 18 had problems with. Two of them actually, one of them was a blind wolf like creature and the other one I believe his name was Shosa, a green wolf like creature. Both were giving 18 problems, and this version of 18 should be a lot stronger than her previous self. So by powerscaling Krillin should be able to beat Round 1.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Shosa

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Majora

I myself am finding out new things about people in TOP. I missed a few episodes that seemed boring and earlier this morning I even found out that Android 18 beat Ribrianne making her even higher than I thought.

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Gaoron

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@p00ty said:

1) Frieza(the version that originally fought SS1 Goku) vs current Krillin Krillin

2) Current Android 18 vs Current Krillin 18

3) Current Piccolo vs Perfect Cell Piccolo

4) Current Base Goku vs Evil Majin Buu Goku

5) Hit(end of 1st tournament vs Current Gohan Hit

6) Golden Freiza vs Current Gohan Frieza

7) Current Goku vs Current Beerus Beerus

8) Current Goku/Current Vegeta vs Whis Whis (In a stomp)

9) Current Vegeta vs Current Hit Vegeta

This, Kurilin vs Frieza is the most debatable tho, he has showings and scaling to put him above Frieza but it just feels iffy

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@loveeveryone:

Piccolo stomped SSJ2 Gohan in their Training, this version of Gohan was out of practice but STILL stronger than his cell games version. They both get stronger after this battle before Tourtament of power.

That doesn't mean much. Before that Gohan has trouble maintaining SSJ2 for Christ's sake. He was competing later on post unlocking his potential again, but before then I don't think that scaling is fair at all. Not to mention Cell has loose morals and he also has a shift ton of abilities. It is debatable I guess.

Krillin was fighting someone equally who Android 18 had problems with. Two of them actually, one of them was a blind wolf like creature and the other one I believe his name was Shosa, a green wolf like creature. Both were giving 18 problems, and this version of 18 should be a lot stronger than her previous self. So by powerscaling Krillin should be able to beat Round 1.

I have my doubts on it, how does Krillin counter TK feats need to be given for that. Also scaling is not linear, you cant say Krillin is also that faste that durable. Since we know speed depends on training as well characters can improve their speed by training.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Shosa

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Majora

I myself am finding out new things about people in TOP. I missed a few episodes that seemed boring and earlier this morning I even found out that Android 18 beat Ribrianne making her even higher than I thought.

Hmm ok. Like I said its debatable.

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P00TY

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@noobsnowman: @loveeveryone: @empressofdread: Apologies for bothering you again. But in my area I'm only able to see bits and pieces of Super Dragonball. A couple questions.

1) Android 17/18 were below perfect Cell. How are they even able to compete with Current SSB Goku?

2) What Saiyan level are the following Current characters comparable to:

Krillan

Android 17

Piccolo

Gohan

3) If all stats are equal. Based purely off of combat skill, cunning and techniques. Rank the top 3 fighters from Goku's universe. Mortals only

4) Same as above except from ALL the universes. Top 3. Mortals only

THANK YOU

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noobsnowman

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#32  Edited By noobsnowman

@p00ty: No worries.

1. Android 17 trained for 10 years and increased in power exponentially, was stated to be a threat to Goku and Vegeta if he remained an enemy. He sparred and contended with a suppressed SSB Goku without using his full power either. Can't speak about Android 18 because I don't know enough about her.

2.

Krillin: Don't know.

Android 17: Marginally below Super Saiyan Blue

Piccolo: SSJ2 level, approximately.

Gohan: Same as 17.

3. Excluding fusions, from strongest to weakest: Goku, Goku Black, Vegeta.

4. Excluding fusions, from strongest to weakest: Goku, Jiren, Hit.

Let me know if you need any explanations on my rankings.

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P00TY

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@noobsnowman: Thank you.

I thought Krillin and Piccolo were better, more cunning fighters. Just not powerful enough to compete.

Who wins below?

Current Gohan vs Current 17.

The winner of the above match vs Current Frieza

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noobsnowman

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@p00ty: You're not incorrect there. But Piccolo has shown to be superior to SSJ2 Gohan, so he should at least be on that level.

Gohan vs 17 is 17's game due to infinite stamina and more defensive capabilities, but it's really close.

Golden Frieza takes the cake against the victor of the match.

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@p00ty: I think you should be able to get some streaming service that can allow you to watch DBS maybe?

Android 17 had a power-up. Due to training the usual.

Krillin is still a bit less than SSJ1 IMO, or rather above Frieza in DBZ frieza saga final form. Thats the best I can give him.

Not sure about the rest. Maybe someone else can help you.

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P00TY

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@empressofdread: the best I have now is Youtube..smh. But thanks for the input

@noobsnowman: Thanks