Dr. Strange (MCU) & Jean Grey (FOX) vs. Scarlet Witch & Thor (MCU)

- The fight takes place in the middle of a deserted New York City. This is Post IW showings.

- Morals are off for both teams.

- Strange does not have the Time Stone.

- Jean is composite, excluding Phoenix Force showings.

I say the second team takes the cake. Scarlet Witch can restrain Strange with her TK. While the first team's big gun is immobile, Thor strikes/axes Jean while Wanda holds Strange in place/rag dolls him. Once Thor is done with Jean, he helps Wanda destroy Stephen. If this (somehow) fails, Wanda was able to produce city wide TP effects in AOU, so there's always that for the second team. Strange nor Jean portrayed any TP defenses in the movie.

Oh, I hadn't even realized that the morals were off. Wanda snaps their necks before the fight even begins then.

@kingbohemith: You really believe the fight would be that easy for Scarlet Witch and Thor?

@easternglider: I don’t see why it wouldn’t? All Stephen and Jean have are hax, not really any offensive moves. Stephen’s maneuvers revolve around portals and his Crimson bands. Jean just has telekinesis that she uses without much tactility and telepathy that is, to my knowledge, outshone by Wanda’s in the movies. Wanda on the other hand has torn (Ultron) things apart with her TK and has controlled an entire city with TP. Thor’s offense speaks for itself. I’d say this battle is borderline spite in Thor and Wanda’s favor, taking in account the events of Infinity War.

Jean can mess up their minds

@easternglider: Does Jean get composite feats not including The Phoenix?

@arthurcurry89: She actually doesn’t have any TP feats that say she could.

@mister_surreal: yes, any showing she’s had in her set of movies where the phoenix was not utilized is useable here.

She inhibited Kurt's powers twice and mentally controled Professor from distance ( but she was beggining to tap Phoenix ego so it could not count )

@arthurcurry89: Yes, she’s done illusions and, like you said, inhibited Kurt’s abilities in the past, but what has she done with her TP (or TK for that matter) offensively in the X-Men movies series?

rather nothing so u've got a point. with phoenix she is really dangerous

@arthurcurry89: Yes. The author made this battle very unfair. In order for Jean to even compete with Wanda she would need access to the Phoenix Force. Taking it away here gives almost an immediate win to Wanda and Thor.

So I go back to my original point, how do Strange and Jean even have a chance? Using their movie showings and taking away Jean’s Phoenix Force access makes her nigh-useless in this battle. Thor could slice her in seconds and Wanda could (literally) rip her in half, based off what we’ve seen in the movies. What possessed the OP to think this was even near a close battle (with morals off), I will never know.

2nd team wins, Jean is pretty much useless.

@kingbohemith: I think you’re selling my Team 1 a bit short. I see this an equal fight where either team has a chance. Calling this “borderline spite” is over the top, no?

@ready_4_madness: She is useless because her telepathy is outshone here. She has had no telepathic showing in the movie above Wanda’s.

@EasternGlider: No, it’s not. When a team isn’t evenly matched with the other, it is SPITE. Hell, I’m tempted to say that IW Thor solos. Mjolnir Thor could solo IMO.

@ready_4_madness: Specs don’t matter. These aren’t the comic counterparts. Was Jean shown to use her TP in the movies to a better effect than Scarlet Witch? No. Thusfore, we can only take what we saw from the two. Wanda has better showings, thusfore Wanda was the better telepath in the movies. Jean has room for potential, but for right now her telepathy is below Wanda’s.

How does Team 1 NOT stomp?

I LOVE Scarlet Witch, but Jean's TP is much faster, better, and more versatile. She can also completely immobilize Wanda and Thor with TK before Wanda could counter.

She held Nightcrawler in place with TK and stopped him from teleporting with her TP.

She held back a tidal wave of water while: fixing & lifting the X-Jet, blocking Nightcrawler's teleportation, and communicating through Prof X.

She also created illusions pretty easily against groups of guards.

Wanda needs to get in close for most of her TP, or she needs to take her time if using it by range like she did with the people of Sokovia. Even as a child and having had no training, Jean was lifting several cars and objects on her street while reading Prof X and Magneto's minds.

Jean Tp’s Thor And KO’s him instantly

(As long as Wanda can defend against Tp)Then Wanda snaps both of their necks with TK

Honestly I think Strange is useless, I really don’t know why everyone is lowballing Jean when she can take Thor out effortlessly

@ready_4_madness:

When did Charles use global telepathy BESIDES when Apocalypse amped him/he had access to Cerebro?

@geekryan: Jean holding back the tidal wave was when she had a portion of the Phoenix. Remember you could see it in her eyes before she drowned. All of those other feats were accessed under the Phoenix as well (besides the illusions for the guards). Doesn’t matter if Wanda needs to get closer, she still has used her TK offensively while the other telekinetic in this equation hasn’t.

No.

The producers confirmed on an Extras feature when the DVD came out that the Phoenix appeared for the first time at the end of X2 when you see the shape of the Phoenix in the water.

Although Jean was starting to lose control, those feats were still her own. The Phoenix was only released when the water consumed her. You can tell that from the complete change in personality and massive power difference between X2 and X3.

Xavier put the psychic barriers in her mind and they only came undone when she "died".

As for her offensive TK:

• Pushed Cyclops across a large room with enough force that he was lifted off the ground and slammed against the opposite wall

• Held 2 guards in place then tossed them against the wall hard enough to knock them out

• Toad jumped at her and she caught him in mid-air

• Caught and immobilized Nightcrawler as he was falling

• Was able to sense Cyclops about to attack without even seeing him and pushed Magneto & Mystique out of the way of his blast

With morals off and team 1's best tools/powers off the table, Wanda and Thor win with giant overpowered area-of-effect attacks.

@geekryan: @ready_4_madness: Toe to toe, do either of you honestly think Jean could beat Wanda? It seems as though her telepathy is more hax than actual offense, opposed to Wanda’s. Even assuming that Jeans telekinesis is somehow better offensively, she still has no answer for Wanda’s telepathy.

After Dr. Strange and Thor hash it out (which won’t take very long because, you know, Stormbreaker) then Wanda will have Thor to help her with Jean (who injured Thanos).

"Opposed to Wanda's"...? Wanda hasn't done anything offensive with her TP. She either needs to 1) get close, or 2) take a long ass time to use it from afar, and even then it is just illusions or limited mind control. It is also out of character for her to use TP in a straight up fight.

Jean, on the other hand, has been shown to simultaneously use her TK & TP on more than one occasion.

Jean's TK & TP are more impressive than Wanda's, but Wanda also has the energy projection going for her.

A morals off SW might win if she goes all out from the start, but Jean would win in any other scenario.

Strange would also 100% beat Thor. Too much hax for Thor to deal with.

@amethystgravity: exactly. Jean and Stange are too nerfed to even try and pull a win.

@Ready_4_Madness: pray tell how? Lightning, which Thor can actually summon without the hammer, is nearly instantaneous. What reaction time feats does Strange have that make him able to dodge the throwing of Stormbreaker? Let alone the durability to survive a lightning strike? Morals off, what can Strange do besides BFR Thor everywhere?

@geekryan: the most offensive showing she had with her TK was one of the first, when she ripped out Ultron’s heart. Jean may be able to do it, but we’ve yet to see her do something as so on the big screen with her TK. I will grant to you that her TK may be more powerful. But morals off, Wanda removed a machine’s internal organ... that’s a little life threatening, don’t you think?

You referred to her TP, not her TK:

It seems as though her telepathy is more hax than actual offense, opposed to Wanda’s.

@geekryan: my mistake then.

I actually may be willing to change my argument. Maybe I have been a little one sided about this. I neglected to think about the fact that Wanda may have no TP defenses either. Does anyone know if Jean has any movie showings of telepathic defense?

Lol Wanda and thor lack tp resistance feats, strange literally one shots Wanda as does Jean. Strange literally bfr's stormbreaker rendering thor useless. Strange easily countered a blast from a 4 gems thanos, not a better feat than stormbreaker but it really doesn't matter when stormbreaker is on the other side of the world.

@the_living_tribunal_24: how does Strange one shot Wanda?

@ready_4_madness: assuming that Stephen can move out of the way in the time to avoid lightning, what will he then do to put down one of the Avengers’ bricks?

@kingbohemith: she lacks durability feats.

Jean solo's via TP.

@the_living_tribunal_24: as does Strange. And I’m still failing to see how Strange is of any use here? He still has nothing he could do to Thor that would put him down and no feats that suggest he can act quicker than Wanda. He’s useless. If Team 1 manages to pull any wins, it’s would be nearly entirely due to Jean.

Team 2, but not easily.

Team two wins.

Bump. Can anyone make an argument for EXACTLY how Jean and Stephen could win? In the back of my mind, I can see it, but what can they do?

@kingbohemith:

Jean is stronger than Scarlett witch by a good margin. If she can contend with Charles then no one on the other team is going to be able to contend with her. She could make Thor turn on Scarlett witch not to mention her tk.

@kingbohemith:

Log off now, strange literally turned Thor's hammer into an umbrella and you said he's useless?

@icec0ld: I’ve asked it one time & I’ll ask it again... how is he going to put Thor down?

No he didn't.

@kingbohemith: he could close a portal around his neck. Durability doesn't help against teleportation.

@icec0ld: Thor or Loki turned the hammer into an umbrella to hide it in plain sight when they were trying to blend in to find Odin.