We don't know if his molecular structure changes when he is exposed to kryptonite. I mean, he is been pierced before when exposed to kryptonite, if we don't know what process Superman undergoes, we can't say he is more durable than a tank (Molecular speaking)
We all know his powers come from the sun.
It's clear the Bruce molecular bonds increase dramatically as The Hulk(Transformation), but we can't say that Superman transforms, besides his eyes changing color sometimes.
@Wyldsong: but wasn't that when he was new to his powers? Maybe he got stronger.
And as I have always said of Manhattan, there just isn't enough information to know if this is the case. If he is someone who is living every moment of his life in the same instant -- as he himself states he is -- is there truly such as thing as getting stronger? Until then, it's the only information we have, and there is nothing to prove he was any weaker or stronger at that point than he was later in the series. I do have to say that movie Manhattan was far more impressive in dealing with the tank. It's never discussed in the series if he get's stronger or more practiced with time -- he just kind of is, and does his thing after the first intrinsic field removal. The only hint you have of an increase in ability of any sort is when he reforms himself from the second intrinsic field removal -- it would seem to be a no-brainer since the first accident gave him his powers so a second removal should prove no issue after he already has his powers, but it does nothing to prove an increase in destructive power -- it just proves he can restructure himself from intrinsic field removal faster.
As a debatable point, it is something we can see and look to. Anything else is speculation, which is fine, but there is no proof back it up in the rest of the Watchmen series.
this isnt really a fair fight but that could be said for the majority of people that dr. Manhattan would fight
Just out of curiosity, and I am not going to slam you either way...are you stating it is not fair due to the perceived power level of Manhattan, or because of his lack of showings/feats to actually prove anything with him?
Proof of what? that Manhattan has Matter manipulation abilities? I thought that was common knowledge
Proof that something more durable than a human, Superman, won't pose the same problems as the tank, since we have scans of Supes resisting having his molecules messed with, and the tank didn't go the way of the baseline human as shown on the page previous -- making it look like the durability of the subject plays a part. Manhattan's powers honestly have too many holes, but it is what it is. I blame Alan Moore=P
Proof of what? that Manhattan has Matter manipulation abilities? I thought that was common knowledge
Proof that something more durable than a human, Superman, won't pose the same problems as the tank, since we have scans of Supes resisting having his molecules messed with, and the tank didn't go the way of the baseline human as shown on the page previous -- making it look like the durability of the subject plays a part. Manhattan's powers honestly have too many holes, but it is what it is. I blame Alan Moore=P
How do you know it wasn't the inorganic composition of the tank that gave Manhattan problems? or the fact that its mostly metal? What makes you so sure durability had anything to do with it?
Proof of what? that Manhattan has Matter manipulation abilities? I thought that was common knowledge
Proof that something more durable than a human, Superman, won't pose the same problems as the tank, since we have scans of Supes resisting having his molecules messed with, and the tank didn't go the way of the baseline human as shown on the page previous -- making it look like the durability of the subject plays a part. Manhattan's powers honestly have too many holes, but it is what it is. I blame Alan Moore=P
How do you know it wasn't the inorganic composition of the tank that gave Manhattan problems? or the fact that its mostly metal? What makes you so sure durability had anything to do with it?
Can you prove otherwise? Because I can show you him having problems with something more durable than a baseline human. And while we are at it, can you prove Superman's particular composition wouldn't cause him problems over a baseline human, seeing as how he has already resisted having his molecules messed with and is an alien?
Hey, not trying to down you, but just playing the devil's advocate card to those who play the disintegration card. Like I said, too many holes in his powerset, and not enough detail. Blame Moore.
@majestic99: is it fair to call him all knowing? He himself stated he wasn't a God. He just knows his future, if he was omniscience he would be unbeatable.
@majestic99: is it fair to call him all knowing? He himself stated he wasn't a God. He just knows his future, if he was omniscience he would be unbeatable.
He lives all moments in his life at once by his words, and can't change things and even that ability can be blocked. He doesn't show knowledge of things outside of his life (like he didn't know what Ozy was up to before putting his plans into motion, that a friend had cancer, and so on). So, all knowing, I agree is stretching it.
@VercingetorixTheGreat said:
@Wyldsong: but his attack would definitively harm supes and there is nothing Superman can do to harm him
Proof? Because we have seen Superman resist molecular attacks, and tanks cause him problems. As well, proof that attacks that don't remove intrinsic fields won't harm him (because we have only ever seen get attacked with and come back from intrinsic field removal) and that he can't be knocked out? He can phase, but can he phase fast enough to avoid getting tagged by someone of Superman's speed? Now, due to the rarity of Superman speedblitzing, I've already stated it isn't likely, but still possible until proven otherwise.
I see a lot of statements being made, but little proof to back it. If we want to speculate, fine, but it is hardly proof. I'll save you the trouble though, the proof doesn't currently exist, because a lot of it is sorely under explained -- as I have said, holes in his powerset.
Proof of what? that Manhattan has Matter manipulation abilities? I thought that was common knowledge
Proof that something more durable than a human, Superman, won't pose the same problems as the tank, since we have scans of Supes resisting having his molecules messed with, and the tank didn't go the way of the baseline human as shown on the page previous -- making it look like the durability of the subject plays a part. Manhattan's powers honestly have too many holes, but it is what it is. I blame Alan Moore=P
How do you know it wasn't the inorganic composition of the tank that gave Manhattan problems? or the fact that its mostly metal? What makes you so sure durability had anything to do with it?
Can you prove otherwise? Because I can show you him having problems with something more durable than a baseline human. And while we are at it, can you prove Superman's particular composition wouldn't cause him problems over a baseline human, seeing as how he has already resisted having his molecules messed with and is an alien?
Hey, not trying to down you, but just playing the devil's advocate card to those who play the disintegration card. Like I said, too many holes in his powerset, and not enough detail. Blame Moore.
The burden of proof isnt on me its on you! Your trying to prove that Manhattan, a being who has never shown any limits to altering matter cant harm superman...and so far you haven't been able to prove that. He had trouble dismantling a tank but that doesn't mean he cant kill superman...especially because there is no relationship between superman and a tank. If this were black Adam i would be willing to believe mahattan cant harm him because the origin of his powers are magical. Superman isnt resistant to matter manipulation... as I recall seeing a scan where he was actually quite susceptible. Manhattan wins
Proof of what? that Manhattan has Matter manipulation abilities? I thought that was common knowledge
Proof that something more durable than a human, Superman, won't pose the same problems as the tank, since we have scans of Supes resisting having his molecules messed with, and the tank didn't go the way of the baseline human as shown on the page previous -- making it look like the durability of the subject plays a part. Manhattan's powers honestly have too many holes, but it is what it is. I blame Alan Moore=P
How do you know it wasn't the inorganic composition of the tank that gave Manhattan problems? or the fact that its mostly metal? What makes you so sure durability had anything to do with it?
Can you prove otherwise? Because I can show you him having problems with something more durable than a baseline human. And while we are at it, can you prove Superman's particular composition wouldn't cause him problems over a baseline human, seeing as how he has already resisted having his molecules messed with and is an alien?
Hey, not trying to down you, but just playing the devil's advocate card to those who play the disintegration card. Like I said, too many holes in his powerset, and not enough detail. Blame Moore.
The burden of proof isnt on me its on you! Your trying to prove that Manhattan, a being who has never shown any limits to altering matter cant harm superman...and so far you haven't been able to prove that. He had trouble dismantling a tank but that doesn't mean he cant kill superman...especially because there is no relationship between superman and a tank. If this were black Adam i would be willing to believe mahattan cant harm him because the origin of his powers are magical. Superman isnt resistant to matter manipulation... as I recall seeing a scan where he was actually quite susceptible. Manhattan wins
I already gave you evidence, which is more than you have given me. Tanks cause problems and Supes has resisted molecular attacks as per the page prior (I already posted the scans) -- tanks are more durable than humans, as is Superman -- there is your connection. Now prove your points. If you want to continue to speculate, go on, but it is not proof my friend. I asked you to counter my points and prove otherwise, so yes, you have the burden of proof.
And yes, he did show limits -- look at the tank -- especially if you want to speculate the metals might have given him problems.
You want to try and turn it on me, it just proves my points further -- there is not enough intel on Manhattan to argue properly.
Please don't bother responding if you can't show me Manhattan taking down something more durable than a tank, or can prove the inorganic composition of the tank caused problems and so on. Just rock on with your belief that he can and move on.
@majestic99: is it fair to call him all knowing? He himself stated he wasn't a God. He just knows his future, if he was omniscience he would be unbeatable.
He lives all moments in his life at once by his words, and can't change things and even that ability can be blocked. He doesn't show knowledge of things outside of his life (like he didn't know what Ozy was up to before putting his plans into motion, that a friend had cancer, and so on). So, all knowing, I agree is stretching it.
@VercingetorixTheGreat said:
@Wyldsong: but his attack would definitively harm supes and there is nothing Superman can do to harm him
Proof? Because we have seen Superman resist molecular attacks, and tanks cause him problems. As well, proof that attacks that don't remove intrinsic fields won't harm him (because we have only ever seen get attacked with and come back from intrinsic field removal) and that he can't be knocked out? He can phase, but can he phase fast enough to avoid getting tagged by someone of Superman's speed? Now, due to the rarity of Superman speedblitzing, I've already stated it isn't likely, but still possible until proven otherwise.
I see a lot of statements being made, but little proof to back it. If we want to speculate, fine, but it is hardly proof. I'll save you the trouble though, the proof doesn't currently exist, because a lot of it is sorely under explained -- as I have said, holes in his powerset.
Seriously, and no offense -- I like proof, not speculation. So let's just move on my friend, because without proof, I find little use in continuing on, and the proof doesn't exist yet. Maybe when Before Watchmen is released we'll have something more solid.
Proof of what? that Manhattan has Matter manipulation abilities? I thought that was common knowledge
Proof that something more durable than a human, Superman, won't pose the same problems as the tank, since we have scans of Supes resisting having his molecules messed with, and the tank didn't go the way of the baseline human as shown on the page previous -- making it look like the durability of the subject plays a part. Manhattan's powers honestly have too many holes, but it is what it is. I blame Alan Moore=P
How do you know it wasn't the inorganic composition of the tank that gave Manhattan problems? or the fact that its mostly metal? What makes you so sure durability had anything to do with it?
Can you prove otherwise? Because I can show you him having problems with something more durable than a baseline human. And while we are at it, can you prove Superman's particular composition wouldn't cause him problems over a baseline human, seeing as how he has already resisted having his molecules messed with and is an alien?
Hey, not trying to down you, but just playing the devil's advocate card to those who play the disintegration card. Like I said, too many holes in his powerset, and not enough detail. Blame Moore.
The burden of proof isnt on me its on you! Your trying to prove that Manhattan, a being who has never shown any limits to altering matter cant harm superman...and so far you haven't been able to prove that. He had trouble dismantling a tank but that doesn't mean he cant kill superman...especially because there is no relationship between superman and a tank. If this were black Adam i would be willing to believe mahattan cant harm him because the origin of his powers are magical. Superman isnt resistant to matter manipulation... as I recall seeing a scan where he was actually quite susceptible. Manhattan wins
I already gave you evidence, which is more than you have given me. Tanks cause problems and Supes has resisted molecular attacks as per the page prior (I already posted the scans) -- tanks are more durable than humans, as is Superman -- there is your connection. Now prove your points. If you want to continue to speculate, go on, but it is not proof my friend. I asked you to counter my points and prove otherwise, so yes, you have the burden of proof.
And yes, he did show limits -- look at the tank.
You want to try and turn it on me, it just proves my points further -- there is not enough intel on Manhattan to argue properly.
Please don't bother responding if you can't show me Manhattan taking down something more durable than a tank, or can prove the inorganic composition of the tank caused problems and so on. Just rock on with your belief that he can and move on.
Thats a pretty weak thesis... I don't accept it as evidence. as I mentioned before you cant say durability was the definitive reason Manhattan struggled with the tank, its speculation to say it was. There is enough evidence to say Manhattan would beat superman...because superman isn't resistant to matter manipulation.
@Wyldsong: well he didn't really have trouble with the tank. He maybe didn't want to deconstruct it and just decided to blow it up. We will never know because he has no competition in his universe and there is only 1 comic he is in.... We can only speculate but my guess is that he could beat superman
@Wyldsong: well he didn't really have trouble with the tank. He maybe didn't want to deconstruct it and just decided to blow it up. We will never know because he has no competition in his universe and there is only 1 comic he is in.... We can only speculate but my guess is that he could beat superman
Two things: Thanks for being honest on speculating. I can respect you for that and your opinion. As for the tank, again, we don't really know he didn't have more trouble with it than a human -- other than the fact that the human left nothing and the tank was only partially melted. Biggest thing I'll point to, if you are trying to show off your weapon to enemies purposefully, what is more intimidating -- melting the top of a tank or utter disintegration? Again, speculation all around, and truly neither here nor there. thanks for the discussion, but I am about to be off to bed and am just about done with this thread. night bud.
Thats a pretty weak thesis... I don't accept it as evidence. as I mentioned before you cant say durability was the definitive reason Manhattan struggled with the tank, its speculation to say it was. There is enough evidence to say Manhattan would beat superman...because superman isn't resistant to matter manipulation.
Really? You try and say the burden of proof is mine when I started the whole shebang by asking YOU for proof, you say Supes isn't resistant to having his molecules played with when I have shown otherwise, you say that Manhattan has no limits to altering matter after arguing that maybe the metal in the tank gave him issues, and have yet to even bring me proof to back up your speculation, when I at least have scans to back up mine? Lol...and my thesis is the weak one here? Wow...
I think we are done here bud. Night, and feel free to take the last word -- just don't expect me to read it or respond since I don't accept your speculative argument as evidence=)
@Wyldsong: well see you tomorrow. Its really unfair to put Dr. M in a fight as there is only ONE watchmen comic but he was very impressive in it. But again its impossible to know his full strength when all he fights are street level people and some defenseless Vietnamese
@Wyldsong: well see you tomorrow. Its really unfair to put Dr. M in a fight as there is only ONE watchmen comic but he was very impressive in it. But again its impossible to know his full strength when all he fights are street level people and some defenseless Vietnamese
Yeah, got me for another post, as sleep is slow to come. I do agree, and it really is kind of unfair with so little to go on. One of my biggest arguments ever with Manhattan is just that -- not enough to go on -- but then you have people that try to "speculate" and use it as gospel truth with far too little proof. I don't mind speculation, I just don't like people trying to pass it off as proof of their position.
Like I said, so far, you at least seem to be someone I can respect on the issue. We at least agree on the lack of showings and speculation bit, and you aren't trying to shove speculation as gospel truth at me. So, realize by me saying this, it is not due in any part to you, but I think I am going to lay off the Manhattan threads for a bit, or at least leave it at one post and leave. These long drawn out discussions that go nowhere just don't do it for me I am afraid. I am sure I'll catch you in another thread bud. Take it easy, and thanks again for the discussion.
Doesn't Dr. Manhattan have to focus someone in order to alter someone's molecules? How could he focus a target moving much faster than anything he has displayed?
Makes sense that Supes can't hurt Dr.M, but i dunno how Dr.M could even hurt Supes in the first place? Didn't see anything in comics to show such a thing
@Wyldsong: Exactually. Dr. M has never shown feats to show the alteration of molecules of someone who does have resistance, nor has he shown anything speed related.
Thats a pretty weak thesis... I don't accept it as evidence. as I mentioned before you cant say durability was the definitive reason Manhattan struggled with the tank, its speculation to say it was. There is enough evidence to say Manhattan would beat superman...because superman isn't resistant to matter manipulation.
Really? You try and say the burden of proof is mine when I started the whole shebang by asking YOU for proof, you say Supes isn't resistant to having his molecules played with when I have shown otherwise, you say that Manhattan has no limits to altering matter after arguing that maybe the metal in the tank gave him issues, and have yet to even bring me proof to back up your speculation, when I at least have scans to back up mine? Lol...and my thesis is the weak one here? Wow...
I think we are done here bud. Night, and feel free to take the last word -- just don't expect me to read it or respond since I don't accept your speculative argument as evidence=)
No way to argue out of this one buddy Manhattan wins
Thats a pretty weak thesis... I don't accept it as evidence. as I mentioned before you cant say durability was the definitive reason Manhattan struggled with the tank, its speculation to say it was. There is enough evidence to say Manhattan would beat superman...because superman isn't resistant to matter manipulation.
Really? You try and say the burden of proof is mine when I started the whole shebang by asking YOU for proof, you say Supes isn't resistant to having his molecules played with when I have shown otherwise, you say that Manhattan has no limits to altering matter after arguing that maybe the metal in the tank gave him issues, and have yet to even bring me proof to back up your speculation, when I at least have scans to back up mine? Lol...and my thesis is the weak one here? Wow...
I think we are done here bud. Night, and feel free to take the last word -- just don't expect me to read it or respond since I don't accept your speculative argument as evidence=)
No way to argue out of this one buddy Manhattan wins
thread/
Prove that Manhattan's molecular manipulation is at the level of that guy's device. You can't.
Here's Power Girl blocking molecular manipulation.
Thats a pretty weak thesis... I don't accept it as evidence. as I mentioned before you cant say durability was the definitive reason Manhattan struggled with the tank, its speculation to say it was. There is enough evidence to say Manhattan would beat superman...because superman isn't resistant to matter manipulation.
Really? You try and say the burden of proof is mine when I started the whole shebang by asking YOU for proof, you say Supes isn't resistant to having his molecules played with when I have shown otherwise, you say that Manhattan has no limits to altering matter after arguing that maybe the metal in the tank gave him issues, and have yet to even bring me proof to back up your speculation, when I at least have scans to back up mine? Lol...and my thesis is the weak one here? Wow...
I think we are done here bud. Night, and feel free to take the last word -- just don't expect me to read it or respond since I don't accept your speculative argument as evidence=)
No way to argue out of this one buddy Manhattan wins
thread/
Prove that Manhattan's molecular manipulation is at the level of that guy's device. You can't.
Here's Power Girl blocking molecular manipulation.
Manhattan cannot do crap to Superman.
/thread
Let's also point out that device only slowed Supes, definitely didn't kill him. Kryptonians sure seem pretty resistant to molecular manipulation, good scan there=)
@CitizenBane:Wlysong's initial argument was that superman was resistant to matter manipulation... Clearly that's not the case. Prove Dr. Manhattan's attacks are on the level of the scan you just showed me...Better yet... prove how power girl is even relevant in this thread. because she is Kryptonian? lol im sorry but no.
@CitizenBane:Wlysong's initial argument was that superman was resistant to matter manipulation... Clearly that's not the case. Prove Dr. Manhattan's attacks are on the level of the scan you just showed me..
Manhattan's best feat is melting a tank. That is it. That is all he has shown himself capable of to date. Are tanks more durable than Superman? No.
Better yet... prove how power girl is even relevant in this thread. because she is Kryptonian? lol im sorry but no.
Are you joking? She gets her powers from exactly the same source that he does, in exactly the same way, except his durability feats are better than hers. How is she not relevant? Don't make me laugh.
@Wyldsong: Hold up didnt you say he was resistant to matter manipulation? now your defnese is that attack didnt kill him?....Manhattan wont put a fist through his chest He will
@Wyldsong: Hold up didnt you say he was resistant to matter manipulation? now your defnese is that attack didnt kill him?....Manhattan wont put a fist through his chest He will
and superman will die
That is from the movie. The movie is not canon. And that wouldn't work either.
@CitizenBane:Wlysong's initial argument was that superman was resistant to matter manipulation... Clearly that's not the case. Prove Dr. Manhattan's attacks are on the level of the scan you just showed me..
Manhattan's best feat is melting a tank. That is it. That is all he has shown himself capable of to date. Are tanks more durable than Superman? No.
Better yet... prove how power girl is even relevant in this thread. because she is Kryptonian? lol im sorry but no.
Are you joking? She gets her powers from exactly the same source that he does, in exactly the same way, except his durability feats are better than hers. How is she not relevant? Don't make me laugh.
@CitizenBane:Wlysong's initial argument was that superman was resistant to matter manipulation... Clearly that's not the case. Prove Dr. Manhattan's attacks are on the level of the scan you just showed me..
Manhattan's best feat is melting a tank. That is it. That is all he has shown himself capable of to date. Are tanks more durable than Superman? No.
Better yet... prove how power girl is even relevant in this thread. because she is Kryptonian? lol im sorry but no.
Are you joking? She gets her powers from exactly the same source that he does, in exactly the same way, except his durability feats are better than hers. How is she not relevant? Don't make me laugh.
Power girl feat arent superman feats sorry...
Kryptonian durability is kryptonian durability. Power Girl is weaker than Superman in pretty much every way. Fanwank Manhattan all you want, but his best feat is melting a tank. Whooo.
@Wyldsong: Hold up didnt you say he was resistant to matter manipulation? now your defnese is that attack didnt kill him?....Manhattan wont put a fist through his chest He will
and superman will die
That is from the movie. The movie is not canon. And that wouldn't work either.
Have you even read Watchmen?
* sigh puts head down* Whats your argument here bane?
I like how everyone resorts to feats when they just can't win...I mean yeah...dr.m's best feat *might* be that tank in the movie...but the ease with which he performed it must indicate what more he's capable of....no??...also that guy never seems to be angry or perturbed...just nonchalantly disassembling stuff atom by atom....I'm positive he's capable of much more....and has many options to kill superman....whereas supes really doesn't seem to have many options to hurt dr.m...i mean even by blitzing can he KILL dr.m??? and suppose he does(not likely) dr/m can just rebuild himself.
@Wyldsong: Hold up didnt you say he was resistant to matter manipulation? now your defnese is that attack didnt kill him?....Manhattan wont put a fist through his chest He will
and superman will die
That is from the movie. The movie is not canon. And that wouldn't work either.
Have you even read Watchmen?
* sigh puts head down* Whats your argument here bane?
My argument is the blatantly obvious one, that Manhattan, for all his woe-is-me posturing has never done anything to indicate he can hurt anyone with superhuman durability. There are scans not two or three pages ago of Superman resisting matter manipulation from Darkseid and Maxima.
Manhattan is a low-level energy manipulator at best, and that's all he is.
@CitizenBane:Wlysong's initial argument was that superman was resistant to matter manipulation... Clearly that's not the case. Prove Dr. Manhattan's attacks are on the level of the scan you just showed me..
Manhattan's best feat is melting a tank. That is it. That is all he has shown himself capable of to date. Are tanks more durable than Superman? No.
Better yet... prove how power girl is even relevant in this thread. because she is Kryptonian? lol im sorry but no.
Are you joking? She gets her powers from exactly the same source that he does, in exactly the same way, except his durability feats are better than hers. How is she not relevant? Don't make me laugh.
Power girl feat arent superman feats sorry...
Kryptonian durability is kryptonian durability. Power Girl is weaker than Superman in pretty much every way. Fanwank Manhattan all you want, but his best feat is melting a tank. Whooo.
By that logic all flashes should have the same feats as well since that all get their power from the same source... thats not true is it?
@CitizenBane:Wlysong's initial argument was that superman was resistant to matter manipulation... Clearly that's not the case. Prove Dr. Manhattan's attacks are on the level of the scan you just showed me..
Manhattan's best feat is melting a tank. That is it. That is all he has shown himself capable of to date. Are tanks more durable than Superman? No.
Better yet... prove how power girl is even relevant in this thread. because she is Kryptonian? lol im sorry but no.
Are you joking? She gets her powers from exactly the same source that he does, in exactly the same way, except his durability feats are better than hers. How is she not relevant? Don't make me laugh.
Power girl feat arent superman feats sorry...
Kryptonian durability is kryptonian durability. Power Girl is weaker than Superman in pretty much every way. Fanwank Manhattan all you want, but his best feat is melting a tank. Whooo.
By that logic all flashes should have the same feats as well since that all get their power from the same source... thats not true is it?
Feats? No. Powers? Yes. All Flashes have the same powers since they all get their power from the same source.
Thats a pretty weak thesis... I don't accept it as evidence. as I mentioned before you cant say durability was the definitive reason Manhattan struggled with the tank, its speculation to say it was. There is enough evidence to say Manhattan would beat superman...because superman isn't resistant to matter manipulation.
Really? You try and say the burden of proof is mine when I started the whole shebang by asking YOU for proof, you say Supes isn't resistant to having his molecules played with when I have shown otherwise, you say that Manhattan has no limits to altering matter after arguing that maybe the metal in the tank gave him issues, and have yet to even bring me proof to back up your speculation, when I at least have scans to back up mine? Lol...and my thesis is the weak one here? Wow...
I think we are done here bud. Night, and feel free to take the last word -- just don't expect me to read it or respond since I don't accept your speculative argument as evidence=)
No way to argue out of this one buddy Manhattan wins
thread/
I was honestly going to ignore anything else you came up with, but saw CitizenBane's post, and could not help myself. I'll give you some credit though, at least this time you tried to bring more than just your words as proof, but really? You bring out a scan that shows Superman surviving molecular disruption as proof? A scan from a book where in the following pages he get's back up and still wins with no significant or lasting effects?
Lol, thanks for adding more scans to prove my point=)
We have scans of him resisting having his molecules played with and now have one of him surviving a direct punch that pushed some molecules aside and still had no lasting effect on him -- which we can easily classify as resistance (I always maintained he was resistant, never stated immunity) or even accelerated healing from such an attack -- but hey, that's just speculation on my part. And you still have yet to show Manhattan taking something more durable than a tank.
Good deal, we are truly done here. Later bud, thanks for the assist!
@Wyldsong: Hold up didnt you say he was resistant to matter manipulation? now your defnese is that attack didnt kill him?....Manhattan wont put a fist through his chest He will
and superman will die
That is from the movie. The movie is not canon. And that wouldn't work either.
Have you even read Watchmen?
* sigh puts head down* Whats your argument here bane?
My argument is the blatantly obvious one, that Manhattan, for all his woe-is-me posturing has never done anything to indicate he can hurt anyone with superhuman durability. There are scans not two or three pages ago of Superman resisting matter manipulation from Darkseid and Maxima.
Manhattan is a low-level energy manipulator at best, and that's all he is.
Superman's matter resistant abilities are inconsistent enough for Manhattan to be able to attack him... and thats all he needs is one attack
@Wyldsong: Hold up didnt you say he was resistant to matter manipulation? now your defnese is that attack didnt kill him?....Manhattan wont put a fist through his chest He will
and superman will die
That is from the movie. The movie is not canon. And that wouldn't work either.
Have you even read Watchmen?
* sigh puts head down* Whats your argument here bane?
My argument is the blatantly obvious one, that Manhattan, for all his woe-is-me posturing has never done anything to indicate he can hurt anyone with superhuman durability. There are scans not two or three pages ago of Superman resisting matter manipulation from Darkseid and Maxima.
Manhattan is a low-level energy manipulator at best, and that's all he is.
Superman's matter resistant abilities are inconsistent enough for Manhattan to be able to attack him... and thats all he needs is one attack
Nonsense, you have one showing and you want to claim that is inconsistency? Manhattan's matter manipulation powers are miserable enough to not matter at all. Again: he melted a tank. Whoo.
@CitizenBane:Wlysong's initial argument was that superman was resistant to matter manipulation... Clearly that's not the case. Prove Dr. Manhattan's attacks are on the level of the scan you just showed me..
Manhattan's best feat is melting a tank. That is it. That is all he has shown himself capable of to date. Are tanks more durable than Superman? No.
Better yet... prove how power girl is even relevant in this thread. because she is Kryptonian? lol im sorry but no.
Are you joking? She gets her powers from exactly the same source that he does, in exactly the same way, except his durability feats are better than hers. How is she not relevant? Don't make me laugh.
Power girl feat arent superman feats sorry...
Kryptonian durability is kryptonian durability. Power Girl is weaker than Superman in pretty much every way. Fanwank Manhattan all you want, but his best feat is melting a tank. Whooo.
By that logic all flashes should have the same feats as well since that all get their power from the same source... thats not true is it?
Feats? No. Powers? Yes. All Flashes have the same powers since they all get their power from the same source.
But they all don't have the same level of speed...which is my point. i cant use a wally west scan on a barry thread.
I like how everyone resorts to feats when they just can't win...I mean yeah...dr.m's best feat *might* be that tank in the movie...but the ease with which he performed it must indicate what more he's capable of....no??...also that guy never seems to be angry or perturbed...just nonchalantly disassembling stuff atom by atom....I'm positive he's capable of much more....and has many options to kill superman....whereas supes really doesn't seem to have many options to hurt dr.m...i mean even by blitzing can he KILL dr.m??? and suppose he does(not likely) dr/m can just rebuild himself.
This is something that seems to have been ignored. Whilst Manhatten might have as many feats as Superman, there's never been any limit portrayed to his matter manipulation abilities. Every feat Manhatten has been shown doing has been done nonchalantly. He didn't really put any effort into creating a citadel on Mars and the effortless with which he destroyed the tank does suggest he could do far more. The limits of Manhatten's powers are never defined and I doubt Superman's atoms share the invulnerability of his body. I have to say that Manhatten takes this.
I like how everyone resorts to feats when they just can't win...I mean yeah...dr.m's best feat *might* be that tank in the movie...but the ease with which he performed it must indicate what more he's capable of....no??...also that guy never seems to be angry or perturbed...just nonchalantly disassembling stuff atom by atom....I'm positive he's capable of much more....and has many options to kill superman....whereas supes really doesn't seem to have many options to hurt dr.m...i mean even by blitzing can he KILL dr.m??? and suppose he does(not likely) dr/m can just rebuild himself.
This is something that seems to have been ignored. Whilst Manhatten might have as many feats as Superman, there's never been any limit portrayed to his matter manipulation abilities. Every feat Manhatten has been shown doing has been done nonchalantly. He didn't really put any effort into creating a citadel on Mars and the effortless with which he destroyed the tank does suggest he could do far more. The limits of Manhatten's powers are never defined and I doubt Superman's atoms share the invulnerability of his body. I have to say that Manhatten takes this.
Just because no limit has ever been shown does not mean no limit exists. Manhattan does everything nonchalantly, because he does not really care about anything that goes on around him.
It's like claiming that I can kick down a skyscraper if I can kick down a door.
@Enemybird said:
@CitizenBane said:
@Enemybird said:
@CitizenBane said:
@Enemybird said:
@CitizenBane said:
@Enemybird said:
@CitizenBane:Wlysong's initial argument was that superman was resistant to matter manipulation... Clearly that's not the case. Prove Dr. Manhattan's attacks are on the level of the scan you just showed me..
Manhattan's best feat is melting a tank. That is it. That is all he has shown himself capable of to date. Are tanks more durable than Superman? No.
Better yet... prove how power girl is even relevant in this thread. because she is Kryptonian? lol im sorry but no.
Are you joking? She gets her powers from exactly the same source that he does, in exactly the same way, except his durability feats are better than hers. How is she not relevant? Don't make me laugh.
Power girl feat arent superman feats sorry...
Kryptonian durability is kryptonian durability. Power Girl is weaker than Superman in pretty much every way. Fanwank Manhattan all you want, but his best feat is melting a tank. Whooo.
By that logic all flashes should have the same feats as well since that all get their power from the same source... thats not true is it?
Feats? No. Powers? Yes. All Flashes have the same powers since they all get their power from the same source.
But they all don't have the same level of speed...which is my point. i cant use a wally west scan on a barry thread.
But they all have the same powers, and they have a generalized level of superhuman speed the way Kryptonians have a generalized level of superhuman durability.
@Wyldsong: Hold up didnt you say he was resistant to matter manipulation? now your defnese is that attack didnt kill him?....Manhattan wont put a fist through his chest He will
and superman will die
That is not even a canon scan from the source material. Yeah, the noncanon movie version was far more impressive, lol=)
I have shown him resisting such attacks, and in the following pages he gets up with no lasting effects. What don't you get from that? Read the comic if you are going to post from it.
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