Manhattan should be TDK level right? Beyonder wins.
To be honest tho i'm really tired of how DC just shits on their mysterious "god tiers" tho. First Manhattan, and now they're going to botch Empty Hand too.
@xebec: Dr.m is actually a couple tiers above Tdk,
ot : beyonder gets retcon by the guy who is giving out retcons.
wasn't TDK just a Manhattan with BWL's brain or something like that? Unless i missed something, would u mind explaining why Manhattan is tiers above TDK? (not objecting just asking)
@xebec: Dr.m is actually a couple tiers above Tdk,
ot : beyonder gets retcon by the guy who is giving out retcons.
wasn't TDK just a Manhattan with BWL's brain or something like that? Unless i missed something, would u mind explaining why Manhattan is tiers above TDK? (not objecting just asking)
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
Actually that was just BWL that tried to replicate the experiment that made Manhattan, not the real Manhattan. Perpetua claimed that the real one more powerful than her and is the source of all anti-crisis energy.
@xebec: Dr.m is actually a couple tiers above Tdk,
ot : beyonder gets retcon by the guy who is giving out retcons.
wasn't TDK just a Manhattan with BWL's brain or something like that? Unless i missed something, would u mind explaining why Manhattan is tiers above TDK? (not objecting just asking)
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
Actually that was just BWL that tried to replicate the experiment that made Manhattan, not the real Manhattan. Perpetua claimed that the real one more powerful than her and is the source of all anti-crisis energy.
@xebec: Dr.m is actually a couple tiers above Tdk,
ot : beyonder gets retcon by the guy who is giving out retcons.
wasn't TDK just a Manhattan with BWL's brain or something like that? Unless i missed something, would u mind explaining why Manhattan is tiers above TDK? (not objecting just asking)
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
Actually that was just BWL that tried to replicate the experiment that made Manhattan, not the real Manhattan. Perpetua claimed that the real one more powerful than her and is the source of all anti-crisis energy.
When did that happen?
OT: Beyonder
The quintessence gathered a fraction of Dr.M energy, gave it to diana, and she almost killed perpetua.
The presence and the source can produce the same energy of Dr.M, so why the quintessence goes to an alien of DC for power instead of the gods they worship??
yet izaya thinks the fraction of dr.m energy is more potent than the entirety of the source.
wally also had a fraction of dr.m energy. From the mobius chair. a fraction that made tdk more powerful than perpetua.
Also when tdk absorb batmanhattan, perpetua immidiately dropped everthing she was doing and resorted to making deals with tdk.
batmanhattan is bruce wayne, he tried to replicate the experiment but he did not have the same outcome. Ozymandias and others tried to replicate it, the same experiment and got bubastis, who is similar to batmanhattan. The thing about dr.m is that he became something called the quantum observer, basically god. and U can't replicate god with experiemnts,
@happylife1996: already proved dr.m is more powerful than the presence on panel, and I think even mxy who is far below Tdk can rip the beyonder a new one. So being above perpetua is def a reason for Tdk to curb beyonder, so I know dr.m retcon him into a cosmic cube,
@fallacyoverlord: i would say dr.m has done the things beyonder did, and more. Dr.m outperformed beyonder,, And in Alan Moore’s watchmen, dr.m limits were never exposed. He was always holding back, but it seems pr beyonder has issues with magic in marvel. A better question to ask here is, if dr.strange is a threat to the beyonder, can he clear the magic deity’s in DC ? If not then there is nothing left to discuss. According to marvel’s dr.strange scan, sise-Neg/shuma > pr beyonder.
@yaroa: Nobody proved Dr. Manhattan is more powerful than the Presence. All I've seen are just some assumptions and scans from comics that are no longer valid.
And what do you think about this:
The Great Darkness cursed Dr. Manhattan with the task of stealing time from the universe, implying that the Great Darkness is vastly superior, since the Great Darkness is actually outside this multiverse and is interacting with it indirectly, and this little interaction was enough to make Manhattan a servant. And the Great Darkness itself is an aspect of Lucifer Morningstar, who is inferior to the Presence.
That's interesting. I should definitely read Doomsday Clock now. But what is the context of Firestorm hurting him and Capt. Atom destroying him? Someone above you said that myx ran away from Doctor Manhattan.
The problem with pr beyonder is he doesn't have any feats that makes him above Mxy. Look at the Mxy vs pr beyonder threads. But at the same time does Manhanttan have any feats on par with Mxy? i guess statements the best you could do. I still say in Marvel/DC wise no character has as consistent feats of actual panel showing omiverse feats than Mxy.
The Great Darkness cursed Dr. Manhattan with the task of stealing time from the universe, implying that the Great Darkness is vastly superior, since the Great Darkness is actually outside this multiverse and is interacting with it indirectly, and this little interaction was enough to make Manhattan a servant. And the Great Darkness itself is an aspect of Lucifer Morningstar, who is inferior to the Presence.
he cursed a clone of a clone of dr.m, and can u quantify the curse???
Cursed here clearly means controlled or influenced, like it did to the Anti-Monitor before him. And you need to provide a proof that it was a clone that the Great Darkness controlled.
Tdk banished the Great Darkness from Barbatos, and took over the Dark multiverse,
Barbatos is just a small avatar of the Great Darkness. In no way, shape, or form you can scale to the whole thing through something like that. Not to mention, all the dark acts come from the Great Darkness, the primordial darkness. So TDK himself is being influenced by it.
tdk also walked into the presence house, and basically told him to beat it.
In HIS House, Tdk is in it, with only a fraction.
Why do you think that? The way I see it, TDK is beneath the Presence's notice. TDK is a foe to Perpetua, who is just one of the infinite servants of the Presence.
Nobody " controlled" the clone of Dr.m, that is literally impossible. I already posted proof that dr.m was in 2 verses simultaneously, at best great darkness saw a clone.
You're making it seem like the GD told Manhattan "curse you". He cursed him with a task, which means he influenced/controlled him to do his bidding
Can you post the scan you're talking about again? I can't find it
Tdk banished the great darkness from barbatos and took control of the realm, so thats proof right there that it was only a clone and that curse literally means nothing.
TDK himself was being influenced by the Great Darkness which is the source of all the dark acts in the DC universe
Mobius outperforming the presence is also has nothing to do with a curse,
When did Mobius out perform the Presence? he was a pawn in the war between the Presence and the Great Darkness, just like Manhattan was.
the presence has a personality of a general. If u invade his territory he will in hostile mode and remove the threat. I posted proof, of how he acts. Tdk was in his house, as the new dictator. Perpetua serves the source, not the presence.
The Source is an aspect of the Presence, just like the Monitor-mind/The Light. And no, the Presence is not a general, there's really no way to predict how he will act.
@sladeracer: Hyperbolic statement. The Presence was called omnipotent, many times. And I don't really believe that he's omnipotent either. Though, he's definitely the strongest.
have u ever talked to a general in a military base??
zauriel is bowing to the presence aka the general.
and he oneshot ps for entering heaven without premission,
the presence also created a plan to combat non and sin eater.
Sin eater was trying to invade and destroy heaven, who walked away scott free in the end and non was like unfazed,
No the Presence is not a general, he is God. He sometimes interferes and sometimes not.
look who else is above presence,
None
pralaya and she lost to creation of perpetua,
Pralaya is an aspect of the Presence, she calls herself God's unconscious. Not to mention the void was confirmed to be an aspect of the Presence in JLI.
world tree = creation of perpetua
False. It's a creation of the Presence. The multiverse, Perpetua created WITH THE POWER OF THE PRESENCE was restarted, and the Presence personally recreated it.
mobius(perpetua creation) outperformed the presence,
also that is monitor mind vs the great darkness, not the presence. If anything the presence is an aspect of monitor mind, who was confirmed by name in multiversity.
Mobius is a pawn in the war between the Great Darkness and the Presence, and no, the Great Darkness is the absence of God's light, an aspect of Lucifer Morningstar.
have u ever talked to a general in a military base??
zauriel is bowing to the presence aka the general.
and he oneshot ps for entering heaven without premission,
the presence also created a plan to combat non and sin eater.
Sin eater was trying to invade and destroy heaven, who walked away scott free in the end and non was like unfazed,
No the Presence is not a general, he is God. He sometimes interferes and sometimes not.
look who else is above presence,
None
pralaya and she lost to creation of perpetua,
Pralaya is an aspect of the Presence, she calls herself God's unconscious. Not to mention the void was confirmed to be an aspect of the Presence in JLI.
world tree = creation of perpetua
False. It's a creation of the Presence. The multiverse, Perpetua created WITH THE POWER OF THE PRESENCE was restarted, and the Presence personally recreated it.
mobius(perpetua creation) outperformed the presence,
also that is monitor mind vs the great darkness, not the presence. If anything the presence is an aspect of monitor mind, who was confirmed by name in multiversity.
Mobius is a pawn in the war between the Great Darkness and the Presence, and no, the Great Darkness is the absence of God's light, an aspect of Lucifer Morningstar.
You make some interesting points. So just curious, does Beyonder have feats that put him above Perpetua?
@thedevil98: He tanked a blast from Molecule Man that could've destroyed several billion dimensions, and he was too big for the multiverse. Honestly, I think that's more than enough to beat Perpetua.
He also has statements that puts him way above that:
Like having more power than all the beings in the multiverse combined while weakened due to erasing death. And being millions of times more powerful than all the beings in the multiverse combined, and that include beings like Molecule Man, TLT, Eternity, Infinity, etc.
Log in to comment