@causeimbatman: Question, with speed equalized can we use abilities that specifically amp our speed making us faster?
Another question, while using our prep if we have enough time to train can we also amp our speed? Making us faster even though speed is technically "equal" here?
In their first fight Goku and Vegeta had nearly equal speed, until Goku used kaioken to amp his speed so he could have the advantage.
I'd understand if all characters had the same base speed, but it's kinda unfair that using a technique that's used specifically to amp speed doesn't do exactly that.
This is definitely not Genis' best feature but hes no slouch in this regard.
Matches Sentry in a fist lock.
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Knocks King Hyperion right off of him. Both of your characters are superior to Genis in this regard. But he almost never fights physically.
Speed
At the very least, he has ftl reaction speed and combat. But, this is basically entirely moot since are speeds are perfectly even no matter what we do . . . so like.
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Energy projection/manipulation
This is by far Genis' best way of putting up a fight.
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His entire fight with the Silver Surfer. it shows his excellent durability, combat speed, and his physical offensive is strong enough to harm the Silver Surfer.
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He broadcasts Rick's song onto every possible listing device on Earth while he was in the another dimension.
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Rips the Photonic energy from the Kree soldier and burns the rest with his own energy.
Was casually creating blasts of energy on a planetary+ scale in his fight with a (Stable) Sentry.
Genis will teleport/nullify any blast or attack thrown at him and redirect it.
First scan is him redirecting energy, and the second is him creating a portal to get rid of an energy blast. Goku literally cant use ranged attack with Genis in play.
Some hax
1. Trapping your team in a stasis field.
2. Any form of mental or energy manipulation against either members of my team will result in a catastrophic backlash for you.
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3. Manipulating their brains electrical impulses.
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4. Genis can just fry both they're brains like he did to the Purple Man.
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The first steps in our prep plan
Since Majestic is really our prep guy in this, ill just give the supporting arguments for this.
Genis can impart his Cosmic Awareness to anyone he chooses, allowing them to inherit his insane levels or precognition for this.
So while Genis gives Majestic his Cosmic Awareness, allowing Majestic to prep perfectly for anything you throw at us.
Due to the fact that Sly has our prep plan, that's basically it for me.
@animelegend68 You can amp Goku’s speed now(as long as its not too much FTL) because the opposing team have changed their perks(they misinterpreted what a perk does so they changed their perks up), no more speed equalized
Born and raised as an elite warlord on the Planet Khera, Majestic eventually found himself assigned to a backwater planet the natives call Earth during the Kherubim-Daemonite War. Spending centuries at war, he ended shaping much Earth's history after his arrival. From days in the Big Three where he fought the Daemonite-backed Axis powers, to his time with Team 1, and his tenure with the WildCATs, Majestic has always been a force for Khera and justice.
The Wild Storm
Majestic has often been described a Superman that never held back. This section will show you why....
The first feat that people tend to gravitate to when reading about Majestic is the fact that he once rearranged the solar system...
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Above, he is shown pushing Mercury into Jupiter's Orbit,
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Here he adds a tenth planet to the solar system by adjusting a comet's path, uses his heat vision to ignite a star ingot to serve as a stand-in for the sun, then he proceeds to split the sun in two using an advanced ritual and some secret equations...
Not only do these feats show Majestic strength as he able to move celestial to and fro without aid, but it also demonstrates his intelligence and ability to act upon as any mistake in the process would change the system irrevocably.
Likewise, he has shown have durability to match his strength. For instance, after chasing a starship across the cosmos he surviving plumetting into at superluminal speeds...
In his own words at the speed he was going a single dust mote would have the energy of a hundred Tunguska events. For reference, the event he is referring to had estimated yield at least a thousand times greater than the bomb drop at Hiroshima.
While these feats show his physical prowess in its own right, his fights with other powerful beings will provide further insight into where he stands.
Namely, his fight with the Eradicator comes to mind...
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Another example of his strength, was during his fight with Rampage who is stronger than Superman which I will post if necessary.
Just to keep things moving, his speed is another aspect that makes him well... Majestic.
To put things simply, Majestros has shown to be a react within nanoseconds as shown below
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Rewrite billions of photons in the middle of battle as shown in his fight with the Eradicator earlier. (It also worth noting that this act gave the Eradicator what is essentially cosmic awareness).
Lastly, being the Kheran Warlord he is, his fighting prowess is unparalleled.
Just a quick example...
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Hewre Majestros bests and disarms a sqaud of Coda Assasins in a blade battle. The closest analogue to these warriors would be the Amazons of the DC universe. There's much more where that came from but this should suffice for now.
But for all his power, Majestros recognizes that his most powerful asset is his mind...
Since I'll being going over his intelligence and how it applies in more detail in prep I'll just give you a general idea of how smart Majestic is... Contradicts the finest minds of the DCU... And was right.
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And he was able to invent the molecular disentangler within seconds
There's some more stuff I could cover but this paint pretty good picture of who Majestic is powerwise.
What's the Scenario?
Pack A Punch
For our perk selection, we have the following...
The ability to choose the battlefield
6 Hours of Prep
Majestic has endowed with Wolverine's notorious healing factor.
So just keep that in mind for the rest of the debate. It's also worth noting to someone that operates within nanoseconds, six hours is an eternity...
Genis And The Genius
According to tourney rules, we are allowed to prep anywhere as long as we are able to prove that our character has access to that place. So naturally, we will be prepping in Majestic's Rushmore Sanctuary where we have access to all of Majestic's tech.
First, this gives us access to Majestic's supercomputer which is able to accurately simulate the future as shown below....
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The scans above show that the computer he has works on the quantum level in conjuction with computer from alternate earths to predict the future. In these scans, the computers analysis is able to accurate predict the arrival of the cosmic entity that Majestic had to rearrange the solar system to fool, and that Captain Atom's presence was going to lead to end of the Wildstorm Universe.
This combined with Genis' ability to look alternate realities and possible futures will almost certainly allow us to discern who you are, what you are capable of, how the fight will go, and how to counter you etc...
From here, Majestic go about gathering or building any equipment that will make achieving victory more efficient...
One of the most infamous weapons that Majestic can bring to battle are the Creation Blades which have been said to be able to cut through anything. In the past, they have allowed a street leveler (Nemesis) to cut through Majestic and in the hands of Majestic they were able to injure Tao, who had the power warp reality and essentially solo all of Wildstorm's Earth, to the point he could barely talk. Let alone stand or access his powers.
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Next, Majestic will be bringing his exosuit from the Rushmore Sanctuary to help further tilt the battle in our favor. This exosuit was able to outright stomp Spartan who had previously been able to beat Majestic himself (albeit barely it was a pretty even match).
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Additionally, Majestic has access to other pieces of tech like Nanoflauge suits that are essentially cloaks of invisibility. Kusar blades sharp enough to cut Majestic which he can bestow to Genis.
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Additionally, Majestic can probably build more tech seeing as how invented a groundbreaking technology within seconds as shown earlier. But for this battle this should be enough to give us the advantage.
Just to the sum things up, Majestic will be using Quantum Supercomputer in conjuction with Genis' cosmic awareness to see how the battle will go and then will prepare for the battle based on what he has learned. For this battle, he has decided to bring the Creation Blades, the exo-suit, the Kusar Blades, among other things.
Genis will take care of masking our presence and preventing mind attacks if necessary in the meanwhile. After gathering the tech, Majestic will bestow Genis with the exosuit and the Kusar Blades. Doing so will allow him to strike with power that could probably stomp Majestic and that's without taking into account the Kusar Blades which could easily cut through people like Majestic before. Not saying that Genis will brawling here, just saying if someone decides to make him they'll have to deal with Genis' cosmic power along with his newfound strength. Majestic, however will be equiping his nanoflauge suit and will have the Creation Blades ready to strike at the right moment. Given that he also has Wolverine's healing factor he'll virtually impossible to take down physically and Genis will cover all of the other bases.
Essentially, Genis' only shortcoming has been covered and then some by prep and Majestic has been turned into the ultimate assasin given his speed, striking power (especially with the Creation Blades), his durability and healing factor among his various other powers.
Next post will be focusing more so on how battle itself goes.
"I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!"
Pretty sure we all know who Goku is, no need for an introduction. And since speed is equalized I won't be showing those feats here. Now that we have that established lets get to it lets get to it.
Striking Power:
Back in DB BoG when Goku first achieved SSG during his fight with a massively suppressed Beerus their clashes of punches shook the entire universe and outside dimensions, pretty tough huh? But here's the scary part, Goku currently in his base form is stronger than he was as a SSG in BoG, meaning if he were to transform into SSG in his current state he'd be hundreds of times stronger than he was at that point. And just in case you haven't had enough, I haven't even added in the huge power boost that Super Saiyan Blue gives to SSG, AND Kaioken times 20 which adds yet another 20x to his power level. Current Goku's punches are definitely going to do critical damage to both characters on your team.
Next we have a scan of Goku being able to punch through a planet calculated to be hundreds of times more dense than Earth before he even achieved SSG yet, if he can do this at this level his current attacks will make this showing look weak.
In one of the more recent episodes, Goku is able to survive and move inside of a black hole while exhausted in his base form, this is pretty crazy.
There's a couple of more feats I can bring up, but this should prove for the most part that Goku's strength is insane even in his base form.
Speed
Since I was informed that speed is no longer equalized, it's a wrap. Here's why, while Majestic doesn't have any notable great combat speed feats and while Genis literally has zero good ones, Goku is virtually unstoppable in this area. The first feat I will show is when he easily reacted to an attack from Dyspo, someone who is confirmed to be at least 2000x FTL while in SSB.
Dyspo FTL statement
Goku countering him
Next lets go back to the U6 Arc, when Goku and hit fought in the tournament Goku used Kaioken times 10, and with that boost he was able to keep up with Hit WHILE Hit was skipping forward through time, which is at an entire different level than light speed.
This makes sense considering that a normal ki blast from Piccolo reached the moon in under a second back in the saiyan saga, where blasts were already FTL at the time
Despite Piccolo's casual blast being this fast, Goku was able to react to Frieza's Death beams, that Piccolo couldn't even see coming, not to mention that Frieza in his 3rd form fodderized Piccolo in terms of speed, and yet base Goku was able to react to him in his fourth form.
Energy Projection
Another area that Goku is pretty insane in, back in the Saiyan saga Goku was only planetary level, but since then he's come a long way
In the Buu saga Ssj2 Goku was stated to be stronger than Ssj2 Gohan, who was able to overpower Cell, a solar system buster.
This should put Ssj2 Goku at solar system+ level in the Buu saga at the bare minumum,
Next, in DB BoG SSG Goku(albeit with Beerus help) created a blast that would destroy the entire universe, luckily it was nullified by Beerus. This means that in the BoG saga SSG Goku's full power is half universal, and when he pulled off this feat he was in a SSG form literally hundreds of times weaker than he is currently
Even someone like King Vegeta whose hundreds of quadrillions of times weaker than current goku(if i'm lowballing) was a casual multi planet buster
Vegeta in his base form(equal to base Goku) destroys a dimension
Durability
Goku tanks being thrown through the hardest known metal in the multiverse
As i've shown before, Goku tanks being inside of a black hole while in base form exhausted
Saiyans in their base forms can break out of being frozen to absolute zero
Overall due to Goku being able to consistently tank attacks from opponents who are strong enough to replicate his striking power/energy projection feats his level of endurance should be around the same level
Early Thoughts....
So far I see a huge advantage in combat speed here. Genis Vell knows little to nothing about fighting H2H let alone at high speeds, and Mr Majestic doesn't know too much about it either IIRC and by looking at scans my opponent has shown so far. Goku with morals off can easily blitz Genis and overwhelm him with his superior combat speed while hitting him with blows that will definitely put him down judging by Goku's insane striking feats that i've shown. Same goes for Majestic, while both have above average feats for hax, Goku's striking has been shown to exceed your teams durability, this is also an area that Juggernaut has an advantage in due to also being an extremely hard hitter.
To sum things up your teams cosmic awareness could be effective, but Goku's too fast for you to even have time to do anything about it, and due to your team lacking actual combat speed feats they won't have an answer to Goku blitzing them
Prep!
With prep, Goku and Juggernaut will go to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and train for an hour, which equates to about 15 days in the chamber. Goku will teach Juggernaut various techniques such as instant transmission and Juggernaut will do the same, and both will overall be a lot stronger when they come out.
Since you didn't give me much to reply to, this will be a short segment.
Genis rarely fights physically, and he definitely wont while having cosmic awareness. Dealing with Juggernaut is the easiest part of this debate, since not only do I possess the exo-suit and Kursar blades (thanks to Majestic) that will easily allow me to deal with you physically; I will be considerably stronger that you, and I have the ability to pierce you. Along those lines, not only does Genis possess FTL combat speed at a minimum, chopping you up to little bits wont be a problem. Especially since you will the our first target. And if that isn't enough, I can always deal with you via hax that you don't have an answer for. Namely, stasis fields. Within these, you wont be able to use instant transmission to escape, since this stasis field holds you in place between two universes. This, and the exo-suit and Blades are more than enough to finish you quickly, so that we can tag team Goku.
Much of your strategy relies on TP, which won't effect Juggernaut.
Cosmic Awareness is NOT TP. The process of frying your brain is done simply by overloading your brain with info, observe:
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Genis forces his CA down Purple Mans throat, this forces him to see everything in creation at once, turning his brain to mush. This tactic is not only easily usable on Juggs, but it should be doable against Goku provided Genis can tag him properly (for which we have other plans)
Conclusion: Juggs is entirely ineffective against Genis or Majestic, the latter of whom outstats him massively. Genis can easily use hax to finish him, and with his superior speed, exo-suit, and blades, chopping you up shouldn't be a problem.
In reply to Animelegend
Wow, where to start . . . excuse my toxicity, but I am actually dully impressed that you have the balls to make claims like these, and try to sneak characters that you claim are hundreds of times more powerful than a universal character, while ignoring everything we posted, and having ZERO counters to our prep, our feats, or our posts in general, and just decided "screw it, ill just say Goku is multiversal". So to the voters, I deeply apologize for my salt.
Back in DB BoG when Goku first achieved SSG during his fight with a massively suppressed Beerus their clashes of punches shook the entire universe and outside dimensions, pretty tough huh? But here's the scary part, Goku currently in his base form is stronger than he was as a SSG in BoG, meaning if he were to transform into SSG in his current state he'd be hundreds of times stronger than he was at that point. And just in case you haven't had enough, I haven't even added in the huge power boost that Super Saiyan Blue gives to SSG, AND Kaioken times 20 which adds yet another 20x to his power level. Current Goku's punches are definitely going to do critical damage to both characters on your team.
Just a quick rundown of what you're telling me. Red Goku is able to send shockwaves (which, for reference, only got stronger as they progressed through the universe) and his now hundreds of times more powerful in his SSB form, with Kaioken x20. Assuming any of this is actually accurate (it isn't) then he would be WELL above the limits (he's not).
Lets take a closer look at this feat, just for the hell of it . . .
Beerus is vastly superior to Goku, so while Goku was canceling out his energy (this wouldn't be a physical feat for the energy canceling) Beerus preformed a profound majority of the offensive, and Goku (in your own words) is "he'd be hundreds of times stronger than he was at that point", and yet Beerus is still considerably stronger than him. So we have three options:
DBS has zero sense of consistency (shocker, I know)
Its a feat that can be attributed mostly to Beerus, and is un-quantifiable for Goku.
Its a massive outlier for Goku
In any case, its really a feat blown out of proportion, and if I take you at your word, he'd literally be skyfather, and therefor outside of the limits of this tournament.
Next we have a scan of Goku being able to punch through a planet calculated to be hundreds of times more dense than Earth before he even achieved SSG yet, if he can do this at this level his current attacks will make this showing look weak.
Isn't this King Kai's planet, which is, ridiculously small? Saying "[select calc I won't show makes this feat better than punching Earth]" while literally not showing the "calc" is kinda bs.
In one of the more recent episodes, Goku is able to survive and move inside of a black hole while exhausted in his base form, this is pretty crazy.
Eh-mm. This is missing copious amounts of context. Not only is this not a real black hole (stated to be a black hole made out of love iirc) but Goku surviving a black hole in his base form, basically blows any other feat of his out of water through Z . . . and another outlier for *cough* base Goku who has been harmed by FAR less.
and while Genis literally has zero good ones
No, just no. In my opener I showed him reacting to point blank ftl blasts of energy and casually moving around them, and here's a feat of him operating at MFTL speeds casually:
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How is this a combat applicable feat? Genis has to actively track a star 30+ light years from earth while reacting to his surroundings, and makes it there in the next scan without losing a beat on the conversation at hand. Genis isn't known for his speed, but he's easily ftl.
While Goku is indubitably faster than Genis, the difference isn't NEARLY as much as you would make it out to be, considering your best feats are only ftl.
In the Buu saga Ssj2 Goku was stated to be stronger than Ssj2 Gohan, who was able to overpower Cell, a solar system buster.
So whenever you're ready, go ahead and give me a single solar system level feat from Cell please. Secondly, you literally cant touch us with energy projection, Genis can create portals all across the battlefield absorbing energy. It did so against Sentry (in the scans I posted) and he can just create normal portals to absorb those energy blasts.
This should put Ssj2 Goku at solar system+ level in the Buu saga at the bare minumum,
Next, in DB BoG SSG Goku(albeit with Beerus help) created a blast that would destroy the entire universe, luckily it was nullified by Beerus. This means that in the BoG saga SSG Goku's full power is half universal, and when he pulled off this feat he was in a SSG form literally hundreds of times weaker than he is currently
Even someone like King Vegeta whose hundreds of quadrillions of times weaker than current goku(if i'm lowballing) was a casual multi planet buster
Vegeta in his base form(equal to base Goku) destroys a dimension
Yeah okay. Lets break this down:
Next, in DB BoG SSG Goku(albeit with Beerus help) created a blast that would destroy the entire universe, luckily it was nullified by Beerus. This means that in the BoG saga SSG Goku's full power is half universal, and when he pulled off this feat he was in a SSG form literally hundreds of times weaker than he is currently
Not only do I really hate it when people pull out completely random numbers out of their asses with zero proof for a backup and wanking their own characters so far outside of the limits of this tournament I literally cant believe what I am hearing. Their punches were only a danger to the universe because DBS has zero consistent powerlevels, and the shockwaves of their punches got stronger as they spread out. This means that the punches they were giving were considerably weaker.
Even someone like King Vegeta whose hundreds of quadrillions of times weaker than current goku(if i'm lowballing) was a casual multi planet buster
So by lowballing, you are calling current Goku "hundreds of quadrillions of times" stronger than a multi-planetbuster right? Not only is this completely baseless, but its you know, a herald level tournament lmao. I have no reply to this, mostly because if I take you at your word I win by default. Nice.
Vegeta in his base form(equal to base Goku) destroys a dimension
I uh, say, like, a large building busting attack . . . unless the dimension he busted is literally the size of a mountain, A+ feat.
Overall due to Goku being able to consistently tank attacks from opponents who are strong enough to replicate his striking power/energy projection feats his level of endurance should be around the same level
The best feat you showed was tanking a fake black hole in base, which is a massive outlier. And then you showed literally nothing else.
So far I see a huge advantage in combat speed here. Genis Vell knows little to nothing about fighting H2H let alone at high speeds, and Mr Majestic doesn't know too much about it either IIRC and by looking at scans my opponent has shown so far. Goku with morals off can easily blitz Genis and overwhelm him with his superior combat speed while hitting him with blows that will definitely put him down judging by Goku's insane striking feats that i've shown. Same goes for Majestic, while both have above average feats for hax, Goku's striking has been shown to exceed your teams durability, this is also an area that Juggernaut has an advantage in due to also being an extremely hard hitter.
I am very confused, since both of us showed multiple ftl minimum speed feats, which is exactly what you showed. I literally cant even begin to imagine how you thought making this post was a good idea. I have never seen someone try to highball a character to universal levels and then claim its hundreds of times more powerful than that with zero proof, while ignoring every feat we presented. I am salty af -_-
Conclusion: My opponent showed a couple feats, pulled baseless conjecture out of his rear end, then ignored all the scans we posted. Not only is Majestic already superior in combat speed and durability, but his Exo-suit makes Genis superior in both of these regards.
Either way, allow me to show how Genis can already beat Goku solo:
Goku can literally not use energy blasts:
Genis is simply going to siphon all the energy into the Micro-Verse, and since Goku is primarily a brawler, its really a moot point anyway.
Alternatively, he could always just open up portals all around the battlefield preventing you from even getting close to either Majestic or myself:
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Making physical contact against either of us an impossibility. So even if you were as fast as you claim, these portals can be set up during prep, so you couldn't even blitz us regardless.
Now Genis can just use AOE attacks in the form of omnidirectional blasts
(Thunderbolts #18)
Or, alternatively he could always just use the same Stasis fields or Cosmic Awareness attacks used to deal with Juggs quickly. Goku is the ultimate fail against someone like Genis, who makes every move he can do, useless.
Conclusion
Genis is capable of soloing on his own. Not only is Juggs entirely useless due to Genis' hax, but Goku is as well. Not to mention, Animelegend is trying to tell us that Goku is quadrillions of times more powerful than a base form Vegito (who he also claimed could destroy a dimension). So we technically win by default due to him trying to sneak a character in here. Nice. Apologies again for my behavior, but I have no stomach for bullshit, nor do I wish to waste my time debating against a person who tries to sneak characters he claims are this powerful. It ruins the debate, and is effectively like debating against a troll in the battle forums. Sly and I are literally going to win this by doing nothing.
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