Doomsday/Thanos vs Powerhouses

Rules:

Battle happens in an indestructible planet. No BFR. Morals off. Perfect teamwork. Silver Surfer is at post-Annihilation levels. Cyborg Superman is at pre-new 52 levels, and has 5 Green Power Rings. Eradicator is composite. Martian Manhunter is at standard pre-new 52 levels (no Fernus). Thanos is at composite pre-God Quarry levels (without artifacts). Doomsday is at Hunter/Prey levels, and has to be killed at least once in order to lose. Who wins?

ROUND 2: Exactly the same, but Martian Manhunter becomes Fernus.

ROUND 3: Same as round 1, but Thanos is on his own.

ROUND 4: Same as round 3, but Martian Manhunter becomes Fernus.

This is a great team to fight Thanos, Superman can disables his shields which are a huge bonus, but physically he can't do a whole lot, and we all know Surfer can't really hurt him. While Thanos can't beat MMH with TP, he can keep him from taking him over and IIRC in Doomsday wars, Doomsday resisted MMH's TP already. That leaves eradicator, who I'm not very sure on the power level on, but if H/P Doomsday takes out MMH and then Eradicator, I don't see the duo losing

I don't know Eradicator's power, but if it's on par with the others, Thanos can solo.

@kevd4wg: Doomsday never resisted TP in Doomsday Wars. He was already being controlled by Brainiac.

He should get TPd by MMH. Though if he goes physical, which I doubt he would since he knows it won't work if he does he gets wrecked.

As for this fight, I don't really know. Teams advantages can drastically be reduced "even if one member is taken out" by Thanos or HP Doomsday. Let alone two.

MMH has already failed to TP DD before. Miserably.

@20damon: That was Doomsday Rex, it's inconsistent. And it doesn't matter anyway since HP Doomsday should have been TPds by MMH if not for Brainiac controlling him at that moment. Like he told.

HP doomsday is too much for team to deal with and thanos.

Team could do it. J'onn's TP is a big factor, it could work on both of these dudes (If Manchester Black could telepathically control Doomsday to a extent, then I don't see how MM can't, seeing as he's superior)

Eradicator's matter manipulation is decent and he can and has hanged with Post Crisis Superman on multiple occasions in terms of speed and strength (at times doing better) He's actually pretty useful here compared to Surfer. His tech manipulation can mess up Thanos's shields, and could potentially amp Superman with his ability to create and improve upon technology.

All in all, it really depends on what the team does. If they lose J'onn, they will most likely lose.

@stalin-is-steel:

(If Manchester Black could telepathically control Doomsday to a extent, then I don't see how MM can't, seeing as he's superior)

how?

@_kingoflatveria: Doomsday has been TPds by other telepaths. Powerful ones yeah. But MMH is a powerful one.

@_kingoflatveria: Manhunter's best TP feats have been multi planetary (not counting his outliner galaxy feat) while Black's never been anywhere near that level.

The only times he's been able to resist MM's TP is by having all of his shields up and by having the prep time to do so. By scaling, MM has superior TP in a straight fight between them.

A morals off Surfer should be able to take Doomsday on his own. He has too many tricks up his sleeve to be stopped solely by brute strength.

The other 3 (I don’t know Eradicator) and Thanos will be interesting.

@stalin-is-steel:

Manhunter's best TP feats have been multi planetary (not counting his outliner galaxy feat) while Black's never been anywhere near that level.

black doesn't have any feats on that lvl but given that he was able to kick J'onn out of Superman's head when he entered makes me think he was superior

Gallery

@dre_savage: How will Surfer take down HP Doomsday?

@_kingoflatveria: Given how Black looked pretty damn strained afterwards suggests that he isn't really above MM levels of TP.

While it is interesting, that one feat isn't really enough to suggest he is straight up better, as J'onn has done far more impressive feats with his TP and has arguably shown more skill as well. I still think he would win in a straight up fight between them.

Thanos has dealt with teams similar in power to this one alone. Doesn’t really matter if he could do so alone given Doomsday is here, can’t see them losing.

@empressofdread said:

Planetary+ energy blasts.

Firstly, Doomsday put way more of a struggle against Braniac's TP then MMH did, so at the very least he should be able to keep MMH out/hold him off, especially when combined with Thanos's telepathy resistance.

Gallery

Now I'm no H/P expert, but it's well known that he adapts his powers and since he has encountered MMH before, he should be well adapted to his TP. Once MMH is gone, the team basically has no chance of winning unless Eradicator has some dumb stupid power output/hax since neither Surfer nor Henshaw really have what it takes to hurt Thanos. I mean, Thanos can straight up no-sell a pissed off Surfer as seen in Silver Surfer vol 3 35

And if Hank has better energy projection then Surfer(I don't think he does), it's marginally at best. So I don't think they'll be doing much of anything to Thanos

something like this should be enough to put him down

this was how big that ship was in comparison to other planets shown in the same issue

from Marvel Graphic Novel #58

@kevd4wg:

Planetary+ energy blasts.

How will they work and Surfer does he really have planetar+ energy blasts, coz I have seen only planet busting. And HP Doomsday was able to Ragdoll Kyle Rayner and No sell Orions astro force which can one-shot Superman. And DD was fully adapted to it. So Doomsdays durability is way higher than Superman even physically blunt force wise, he was no selling hits that hurt Superman badly and bring him on his kneed. DD tanks them without a scratch. Also has more than enough DC to hurt Surfer and will have only little problems tagging him.

Firstly, Doomsday put way more of a struggle against Braniac's TP then MMH did, so at the very least he should be able to keep MMH out/hold him off, especially when combined with Thanos's telepathy resistance.

I think that scan is not doing justice to anyone. Not only we know DD can be affected by TP, that scan is usually used by people to claim he lacks mind of his own and cant be TPd, which is not true he does have a mind.

Now I'm no H/P expert, but it's well known that he adapts his powers and since he has encountered MMH before, he should be well adapted to his TP. Once MMH is gone, the team basically has no chance of winning unless Eradicator has some dumb stupid power output/hax since neither Surfer nor Henshaw really have what it takes to hurt Thanos. I mean, Thanos can straight up no-sell a pissed off Surfer as seen in Silver Surfer vol 3 35

And if Hank has better energy projection then Surfer(I don't think he does), it's marginally at best. So I don't think they'll be doing much of anything to Thanos

I am not arguing for Team winning. Or Thanos winning. I was just telling you that HP Doomsday can be TPd.

@_kingoflatveria said:

@empressofdread said:

@dre_savage: How will Surfer take down HP Doomsday?

something like this should be enough to put him down

this was how big that ship was in comparison to other planets shown in the same issue

from Marvel Graphic Novel #58

Star level? I guess that should kill Doomsday once. Or at least disintegrate him with the energies.

@empressofdread: that's not star lvl, its large planetary

being more massive than a supernova seems pretty hyperbole considering we saw its size in comparison to other planets and it wasn't that big

@empressofdread:

How will they work and Surfer does he really have planetar+ energy blasts, coz I have seen only planet busting.

Are you saying planet busting isn't planetary? If you're saying it's not planetary plus, the reason you've only seen planet busting is because of how consistent he is, and you don't have to use scaling, but he's definitely above Earth sized planets. Like how in Annihilation: Silver Surfer 1, when he planet busted, and then in Annihilation Silver Surfer 4, after he got the Annihilation permanent amp and is fighting the same opponent, Ravenous notes just how much more powerful he is and of course Surfer blows up a planet again.

Gallery

At the very least that should be planetary+, also the feat that KoL posted. Also keep in mind, this is all fairly casual.

And HP Doomsday was able to Ragdoll Kyle Rayner and No sell Orions astro force which can one-shot Superman. And DD was fully adapted to it

Ah yes, the mighty scaling. Anyway, if he adapted to it, why is this impressive?

So Doomsdays durability is way higher than Superman even physically blunt force wise, he was no selling hits that hurt Superman badly and bring him on his kneed. DD tanks them without a scratch. Also has more than enough DC to hurt Surfer and will have only little problems tagging him.

Honestly, as of now I don't think Surfer beats H/P Doomsday, DD is a good match for him, but my main problem was you saying Surfer can't put him down.

I think that scan is not doing justice to anyone. Not only we know DD can be affected by TP, that scan is usually used by people to claim he lacks mind of his own and cant be TPd, which is not true he does have a mind.

He legit resisted Braniac's TP better then MMH who just didn't compare

I am not arguing for Team winning. Or Thanos winning. I was just telling you that HP Doomsday can be TPd.

Alright, but I doubt it can be done easily considering DD likely adapted to it and that Braniac had problems with it

@kevd4wg:

Are you saying planet busting isn't planetary?

I never said that. I said "planetary" is not "planetary+".

At the very least that should be planetary+, also the feat that KoL posted. Also keep in mind, this is all fairly casual.

Ok. I saw that feat by KOL.

Ah yes, the mighty scaling. Anyway, if he adapted to it, why is this impressive?

Scaling is all he had though. He does not get have much feats. BUT BUT......his scaling is way too much consistent.

Honestly, as of now I don't think Surfer beats H/P Doomsday, DD is a good match for him, but my main problem was you saying Surfer can't put him down.

Oh ok. Now I think Surfer can put him down. Honestly, I used to think Surfer can put him down but not easily.

He legit resisted Braniac's TP better then MMH who just didn't compare

Brainiac was stating that he was able to block MMH taking control over Doomsday though.

@empressofdread:

I never said that. I said "planetary" is not "planetary+".

Oh ok, just came across as weird

Scaling is all he had though. He does not get have much feats. BUT BUT......his scaling is way too much consistent.

I know, I don't have a problem with scaling per say, but Quantifiable feats are just so much better imo.

Oh ok. Now I think Surfer can put him down. Honestly, I used to think Surfer can put him down but not easily.

Yeah, I don't think he can do it easily, H/P Doomsday has always seemed like a tank to me, but I think Surfer can put him down.

Brainiac was stating that he was able to block MMH taking control over Doomsday though.

Yeah, but he seemingly had no problems dealing with MMH, whereas he had some dealing with Doomsday

@kevd4wg:

I know, I don't have a problem with scaling per say, but Quantifiable feats are just so much better imo.

Yes thet are. But scaling is all we have for Doomsday. Supergir and Superman both have better quantifiable feats than Doomsday though. Scaling is very consistent for HP Doomsday.

Yeah, I don't think he can do it easily, H/P Doomsday has always seemed like a tank to me, but I think Surfer can put him down.

From what I see. Surfer can abuse his blasts to maximum and his speed and put him down yes. Surfer should take the majority. Unless he is jobbing.

Yeah, but he seemingly had no problems dealing with MMH, whereas he had some dealing with Doomsday

There could be some other reason why Brainiac was having trouble with Doomsday or not. I will have to read it again to find out. But I see your points, its totally fair.

@empressofdread:

Yes thet are. But scaling is all we have for Doomsday. Supergir and Superman both have better quantifiable feats than Doomsday though. Scaling is very consistent for HP Doomsday.

Yeah, it's obvious by portrayal that H/P Doomsday is above characters at their level, but when dealing with scaling, I always take it with a grain of salt... at least to a degree, if that makes sense?

From what I see. Surfer can abuse his blasts to maximum and his speed and put him down yes. Surfer should take the majority. Unless he is jobbing.

Surfer is a master at jobbing, mostly due to his morals. For me, it depends on whether Surfer is morals on or off

There could be some other reason why Brainiac was having trouble with Doomsday or not. I will have to read it again to find out. But I see your points, its totally fair.

Thanks

@kevd4wg: I can understand the problem with power scaling compared to feats. But there are characters for which scaling works well and there are characters whom scaling does not work at all. It is not like Doomsday has trouble with Supergirl level characters after team busting. He does not. He no sells their speedblitzes.

No problem.

@empressofdread: Makes sense

Even Doomsday Wars and OWAW Doomsday never faced molecular rearrangement, and it worked on Rex for what it's worth. I don't know if it's in-character though.

And I doubt J'Onn is a better telepath than Manchester. Not only does tp'ing OWAW Doomsday prove he's better than Brainiac since Doomsday evolved, there's the time J'Onn couldn't prove Lex's guilt.

People really overstimate what it would accomplish to take down Thanos' shields. Noone here can even hope to put him down while at the same time noone here can take beatings from either one of these guys!

@tifalockhart: You mean when Manchester had plenty of time to flood Lex with TP shields to block J'onn out? Black's never shown anything near the scale of MM's higher TP feats, and has always relied on plot or prep time to keep his defences up. They've never been in a direct TP duel with each other.

Not buying Manchester being stronger with TP. He's close, but hasn't surpassed anything J'onn has done, usually on the spot.

Thanos has beaten Surfer with absolute ease so i fail to see what the others bring to the table to truly hang with team 1.

I'm also going to add that no one on the DC side has the firepower to put down H/P Doomsday. They'd have to get creative.

Doomsday can be overcome via TP while Thanos has high level of TP resistance and is extremely hard to put down, none of the DC individuals display the necessary damage output to critically damage him or knock him out. So, team two with low difficulty.

Edit:

ROUND 2: Exactly the same, but Martian Manhunter becomes Fernus.

Team one gets TP'ed, including Thanos.

ROUND 3: Same as round 1, but Thanos is on his own.

Read the first quarter of my post.

ROUND 4: Same as round 3, but Martian Manhunter becomes Fernus.

Thanos gets mind raped.

Team one wins all four rounds.

Thanos and Doomsday stomp.

Bump