Does Captain America Always Win: Captain America vs Solid Snake

@slimj87d: He has also one shotted Enchantress, beaten up Master Man, tanked a punch from Thor and so on. These are high end/outliers but his showings get even more ridiculous than these.

Honestly, when I really think about it, if I placed Captain America in snake's shoes, he'd handle everything easier than snake did except psycho mantis (which required bizarre controller 2 PIS to beat).

1. Vulcan raven in his tank? **** the stupid tank, he'd throw his shield straight through the damn tank and kill everyone onaide of it.

2. Grey Fox, he'd beat him too under the shame conditions. He's punched and cracked iron man's armor, with his shield I don't see Gray Fox tanking a shield strike with cap behind it.

3. Revolver ocelot? None of those bullets are touching cap. Cap would ricochet his shield one way and run the other way and hit ocelot both sides of his face.

4. Sniper wolf? He wouldn't have to care about the claymore she laid download. The guh tanks explosions greater than C4s.

5. Liquid Snake in his stuoid helicopter? Cap has taken down helicopters before with a shield throw and it's comes back to him too.

6. Metal gear? He was able to run and leap up a android 10 times bigger than metal gear. I'd like to see meta gear survive a 12 lbs projectile traveling at 7,000 m/s. Right off the bat, cap would throw a Mach 20 shield into metals gear and the fight eoukdnt even start. Gray fox would be confused.

7. Liquid? Liquid doesn't have striking power that can knock cap 100s of feet into the air either. He'd get taken out by Cap.

8. The basement exploding? Cap doesnt even need a freaking jeeps to save himself and Meryl. He could literally pick her up and run out of the base at 60 MPH in his arms.

Captain America can have a C4 steapped to his chest and have it explode without no problem. Can snake?

Captain America can be tied to a front of a car and be drive through multiple concrete walls like when iron man flew himself through a concrete wall and through the factory walls. Can't Snake be tied to a diesels truck and be driven though a bunch of concrete walls?

Cap can jog at 60 mph. He can literally outrun revolver ocelots bullets. The fight is 100 feet away, Cap can get to snake in 1.2 seconds or even less. There's goes stealth.

Cap cannot literally seem bullets in slow motion and has been shown to love faster than them. Can snake see Cap's shield going at speeds faster than an ICMB missile? Mach 20?

If Snake is composite and Cap gets all of his high end feats, Cap out classes him physically.

@jashro44: Personally I would rather stick to just a regular, canon Solid Snake. In that case I would concede Captain America holds an advantage in muscle power and superhuman athleticism, but only in proportion to Snake's advantage in speed and reaction time.

All following feats are 100% canon and written/directed by Hideo Kojima.

This is an excerpt from an in-game novel included with MGS2, the novel exists in-universe and was written by a journalist who had uncovered the conspiracy of the previous game, and was rescued by Solid Snake after being captured. Snake breaks into the room and incapacitates all four soldiers in under a second. The journalist says that he didn't even have the time to start panicking because it was all over and silent again by the time he reacted. this was probably written from Kojima's own pen so this description is how he imagines Solid Snake in action.

At that moment, I heard a window shatter.
The raging storm outside seemed to gain entry to the cabin in an instance, and I heard thin screams from the captors that encircled my chair. The next second, they had already fallen heavily onto the floor.
The brief confusion ended before I regained enough presence of mind to even panic. Whoever was now here, whatever had happened, my tormentors were obviously out of commission. But now I could hear measured footsteps approaching across the floor.
If this person had just saved my life, who was it? Or was I about to share the others' fate? The footsteps came to a halt in front of me, but strangely enough, I did not feel any sort of a presence nearby.
Who was this human whirlwind? I was ready to lose my lunch from the curiosity and the terror.
...
I thought of my mysterious savior: possessed of superhuman fighting ability, invisible, and capable of burning discs in an instant. There was only one possible explanation.
He had to be an alien, probably the little gray kind.

Solid Snake moves FTE when he discards his cloak and activates the stealth camouflage technology (stealth camouflage has an activator located around the breast that Snake would have turned on, after ditching the coat. And somehow he doesn't even break his stride, it's like how Wesker teleports to the other side of the room without changing his stance, although just with one arm)

Even Old Snake is having whole elaborate CQC duels, in the time it takes a cigar to hit the floor (that's Liquid Ocelot, Ocelot's body with Liquid's mind in control). That's under 1 second. That means you can put the YouTube settings into double speed, and it will still only be a fifth as fast as their fighting actually was in real time (I need to figure out how to create an accelerated gif in order to see what that looks like)

@slimj87d: Read post #98, you're doing the same thing Jashro was doing and I addressed it there.

@the_hajduk: so let me get something straight here.

You're arguing for a non-canon version of snake and you're only accepting Cap's lowest showings? Where's the irony in that? That's ridiculous.

@the_hajduk: I ready your post and it's not changing my opinion.

Jashro is the moderator of the battle boards, he helped write some of the rules here. I think he knows what he's doing.

That's the OP. I didn't make the rules, the OP said 616 Cap and composite Solid Snake. If you just want to talk canon then I can do that separately, but the point of this discussion is that a composite Solid Snake curbstomps Captain America.

So your opinion is that all feats, no matter what they contradict, should be accepted.

@the_hajduk: this is what you're doing here.

You're taking a composite Snake, you're using all of his best showings of twin snake's and his comic books and you're dropping all the other "consistent" showings of his.

You're telling Jashro that he's not allowed to use feats and showings ehich you deem consistent or inconsistent.

Yeah, sure at this rate if we're only going to lowball Cap and "cherry pick" snake's best feats, I guess Cap would lose to irony.

You're making me repeat myself. The OP said this is a composite Solid Snake. That's not my rule. I don't understand why you're getting so mad at me for this, I am not in charge of the rules in this thread. I already told you, if you just want to talk canon then I can do that separately, but the point of this discussion is that a composite Solid Snake curbstomps Captain America.

@red_ruby_petal:

Well what I was trying to say here was that in the same manner Snake didn't suffer any larger injury than captain did. In those scans captain america was bleeding from that hit.

Well as far as face shots go there is also this from flags of our father where cap took a hit from warrior woman which sent him flying into the air:

Gallery

Well like how often do you see cars break. They are covered in thin sheets of metal so it wouldn't surprise me to how easily they break. Well that does show poles are stronger than how I would usually imagine it.

Well I'm sure it depends on the speed of the vehicle.

It does show it created a shockwave. Actually the way it was they portrayed the feat was similar to how a ship crashes to another ship causing the dust to move in such a way. It meant the ground shook upon impact. Considering the ground it covered there must have really been a significant amount of force done that time especially considering the size and weight ( 500 ) tons. Now think of something that can cause a dust cloud going of the same manner to a 500 ton object.

I don't think Rex shook. Snake doesn't hit with 500 tons of force or anything like that so that wouldn't make sense. It looks like the camera/screen shook for dramatic effect.

If it was just creating a dust cloud it wouldn't have shot up suddenly like how the feat was portrayed there.

I don't think the dust shooting up like that is unrealistic. Some times when I wave my hand above a huge pile of dust it does move erratically. Not as much as Liquid and Solid did with there punch there.

I won't undersell the pole feet but this feat Snake did was impressive. Explosive force is the force done under an impact. Its different from pushing or pulling. Its that force that occurs in like a milisecond. Specially when you punch. Sometimes when you punch you add a little push to it making the person go back so it isn't exactly as impressive. A concrete example is doing a fast punch then retracting your hand so no push was done. 99% of the damage comes from the explosive force. Thats how I call it or recall it being called. From what I think in fiction if you cause a shockwave you have done more explosive force. Like the wind pressure caused by an explosion suddenly expanding since it happens instantly.

Well wouldn't cap be hitting snake with this "explosive force" when he punches him?

I was just trying to make a few points here and there to why I think it isn't how you think it seems.

Fair enough.

@the_hajduk:

What you're doing is digging into Cap's wide breadth of history and appearances, and cherrypicking the most astounding feats he has ever performed, and presenting them as if that represents his capabilities in every single fight. Despite the fact that your scans are all separated by decades and all of them are under different writers.

Obviously I'm going to highlight caps impressive feats (except for the feats I deem PIS or WIS). And actually no I'm not going through caps appearances. I'm going off of memory. I haven't actually gone through all of cap's appearances like I have other characters.

But if Steve really is just throwing out metahuman launching/street pole busting hooks in every fight like it's nothing, why is it that he still finds himself matched by peak humans on a regular basis? How come that same hook doesn't take off Batroc and Crossbones' heads, during any of the dozen times Steve has fought them both?

Crossbones has been stated to have meta-human like strength in the past. The fact he is durable enough to slug it out with Steve is a testament of his physicals. As I said I don't think either snake or caps feats are meant to show them being multi-tonners. Writers don't think when they write feats. We should know this by the whole Justin Jordans instance. I quantified caps feat because you claimed Snake's feat was comparable to a car crash.

I seriously doubt that Steve holds back against them, especially Crossbones, because Steve plain hates that guy. And remember when Steve was a bloodlusted drug addict or something and fought Daredevil? Peak human Matt Murdock was just fine weathering the blows of an indisputably bloodlusted Steve Rogers. Captain America has far more showings operating at this level then some ridiculous superhuman level, the ratio is literally 98% to 2%.

Its not like daredevil hasn't taken hits from out of his weight class. I can post scans of him taking a punch from a bloodlusted spider-man.

Sometimes Captain America doesn't even oneshot fodder.

He's also beaten up hulk and one shotted Namor. Regardless PIS aside in the past you've argued that Chris can explode zombies because he does so during game play. Well snake doesn't one shot fodder during game play. So I see no difference.

If goddamn Iron Man is really wailing on Steve with all he's got and Steve is just like bring it on... then how did Crossbones knock him out? Brubaker wrote that.

Well as I said I don't think Tony was going all out. He did hit him hard enough he went through a concrete wall though. So its not like he is just hitting him with love taps.

Solid Snake is different. He almost never fights humans. The only "humans" he has ever fought H2H are Liquid and Ocelot, but they are only as "human" as Snake himself is, especially in a composite because that now includes Big Boss's feats of lifting and throwing Gears (he has at least 3)

I don't think I even need to entertain the idea of snake being an 100 tonner. No one believes that.

I would never call the canon Snake a superhuman, but he and everyone else quite obviously are in a composite. Every fight Snake partakes in is consistent and he gets some kind of superhuman feat, whether it be tanking a grenade or some kind of uncanny feat of reaction time. Every single cutscene in TTS is like The Matrix, and same with the comic books because they follow TTS, and apparently the novels are the worst offenders of all and give Snake his greatest feats yet.

That is why this fight isn't fair. One is canon and the other isn't, unfair. Either limit it to canon or make Steve composite too. Steve can't stand up to a composite Snake because Snake gets all the skills of his canon self, plus all the physicals from other sources.

Well I don't view the feats you posted as out of caps league.

Solid Snake moves FTE when he discards his cloak and activates the stealth camouflage technology (stealth camouflage has an activator located around the breast that Snake would have turned on, after ditching the coat. And somehow he doesn't even break his stride, it's like how Wesker teleports to the other side of the room without changing his stance, although just with one arm)

Even Old Snake is having whole elaborate CQC duels, in the time it takes a cigar to hit the floor (that's Liquid Ocelot, Ocelot's body with Liquid's mind in control). That's under 1 second. That means you can put the YouTube settings into double speed, and it will still only be a fifth as fast as their fighting actually was in real time (I need to figure out how to create an accelerated gif in order to see what that looks like)

Caps moved faster than the eye wesker style:

Gallery

There is also that scene from born again when Steve runs alongside Matt as a blur.

So Steve can keep up with snake fine. The cigar feat is impressive but Snake is getting curbstomped the whole time. He's not exactly keeping up with Ocelot.

It's not your rule to say what can and can't be used for Cap either.

Snake does it once, I guess it's considered consistent. Cap throws his shield at mach speeds through tanks, cars, vehicles, helicopters, Namor, etc. Not consistent? Cap explains that he can bullet time, has been shown to outmaneuver a bullet after it has been fired, but I guess it's not consistent but if Snake did the feat once, "it's consistent."

You're the one that's trying to convince Solid Snake is a 100 tonner. Yeah, whatever.

@jashro44:

I haven't actually gone through all of cap's appearances like I have other characters.

Which characters?

He's one of the worst debaters on the Vine, easily. Top 5 material for sure. He thinks Ult Cap can legitimately fight Silver Surfer.

Well, if we are gonna go with the bullshit that Solid Snake in a 100+ tonner, then I might as well use this

Gallery

Cap supports and resists the force of a massive Ultron robot that easily weighs hundreds of tons

Composite Snake is probably bad fanfic meta-human level, which is by definition, absolutely ridiculous. Canon Snake would go down hard against The Cap, Composite Solid Snake in his prime wins after a damn-good fight.

@red_ruby_petal:

That was a pretty good feat. Still I don't exactly see how its any better than having a face slammed to a steel wall. Better yet the steel wall dented upon the impact.

I'm not an expert when it comes to steel so to be honest not sure how to compare the force of the two durability feats. @slimj87d might be able to.

Well durability of the vehicle should be taken to account as well. Less impact will come from a less durable object.

I don't think there is a huge difference in the durability of your typical car. The second image I uploaded was a Ram pickup truck.

Rex did shake. You can hear the sound indicating there was an impact from their combined blows and the dust. And no I don't necessarily mean its a 500 ton feat. Otherwise it would have moved Rex entirely. Well if a man did land on your car the same thing would happen and that would barely need a ton of force. It would just shake the car quite a bit but lets consider the fact he needs to land on a car to cause that effect. A 200 ton airplane would shake if a couple tons were dropped on the plane when loading the cargo but that would need a couple tons of force and the impact isn't that significant. Now consider that being done to a 500 ton mech. I would give it at least 40 ton feat of their combined forces. Still that is a 20 ton punch which would most definitely hurt. In fact the shockwave power alone moved Rex so its safe to say the impact from that punch was a little more. Its not that hard to believe since Bass Rutten as an athlete and still human can punch for a force of half a ton or 1200 pounds of force or was it 1400.

Honestly looking at the video I don't see Rex move. All though your right there was a shock wave when I watch the video with audio.

@slimj87d: you left out all of Snakes feats from comics, MGS2, and MGS4. Saying Cap.could.do all that. Wth.

I dont think Cap could not do it, just that Cap could not beat Snake who also beat those odds.

The question is can Cap take a majority over Snakes own stats, skill, and gear load out.

@lucano: canon Snake has awesome feats, his feats in canon is games and digital comics. Lots of great feats in those alone.

@jashro44: Where are those FTE Cap feats from?

@blackpantherisb: Captain America 328.

@jashro44: For both of them?

I only posted the one unless your talking about the feat I posted from Born Again?

@jashro44: The where he outpaces Daredevil.

Daredevil 233.

@jashro44: i dont mean Rex moved. I meant it shook. That still requirs quite a bit of force in an instant. Its evident it shook through the sound and the way the screen moved. So did the dust.

@jashro44: i notice also this battle is in a city at night. Does.stealth attacks not play a role at all?

@sirfizzwhizz: It does. So does snakes intel from otacon. I think that gives snake a big edge personally.

@jashro44: cool.

What Intel would Otacon even have? There's no knowledge given in this fight.

I don't even see stealth being a factor here. They start 100 feet away and Cap can close that distance in a little more than 1 second if he wanted to. In addition, he has enhanced senses to a degree, being able to sense BP stealth attack and hearing moving vehicles from far away during a blizzard.

@slimj87d: Shouldn't Otacon be able to provide snake schematics of the city and track Steve's location? It seems like a big tactical advantage. Cap sensing air currents is impressive but if snake could fine a way to get out of caps line of sight he could shoot him.

@slimj87d: Out of curiosity how do you feel about this fight?

Oh, IC. I thought you meant they have knowledge on Cap.

I think it's kind of silly making "composites" of any characters, because that just means cherry pick all the best feats and ignore everything else. Yet, when you use a feat that Cap has done multiple times, other users say "he doesn't do that 99% of the time!" It's ironic.

As for the fight itself. I imagine placing Cap in Shadow Moses with the same codec system and help Snake had, he'd get through all the scenarios relatively easy. Vulcan raven driving around with a tank wouldn't mean much to a guy that slices tanks up. Vulcan Raven with a chain gun doesn't mean much when Cap beat down a explosive and bullet proof Nuke with a chain gun. Liquid Snake's Helicopter wouldn't even be a threat to Cap, he could throw his shield at the Helicopter and take it out, he's done it plenty of times. Repel down the building after the Helicopter fight? Cap would just leap off the building and land on the ground fine. Metal Gear? He's shown to slice giant mechs up with a full powered throw of his shield before. The place is blowing up and Meryl is having trouble finding the keys to the Jeep? They don't even need the Jeep, Cap can pick Meryl up and run the two of them out of there probably.

Even cherry picking Snake's best feats, I don't think he's physically on par or has what it takes to take Cap down with only his most consistent showings. Factor in all of Cap's ridiculous feats like we're doing with Snake here, and he'd win far easier.

Snake should win, but i really am tired of seeing that same bullshit "100 tonner" argument so i voted for Cap because i honestly couldnt vote for Snake after reading that cancer

Cap in a good fight.

Cap, Snake is good, but the Cap beats him.

@slimj87d: cap close the distance in one second means little when Snake can find a way to make distance and opt a stealth game. Considering Snakes stealth vs Wolves, enhance senses of Genome Soldiers, and even more I dont see why Snake could not play a stealth game. Plenty of characaters have stealth Cap. Wolverine chief among them :\

Also your cap Bias is showing hard. You state ONLY Shadow Moses and ignore the stated canon Digital Comics, MGS2, and MGS4 scenario of a 80 year old and dying Snake facing worse odds than Shadow Moses.

No one cares Cap can beat the same scenarios, except your scenario vs Rex is utter laughable. No way his best shield cuttinng feat working on a special armor tank mech that laugh off multiple Stinger Missils. He would likely need to beat Rex same way Snake did lol. Seems bias to me who you clearly like more by saying Cap is better in every way and stealth is impossible vs Cap when it never was before. Bias as any thread involving Ultimate Marvel for me. Now that is bias. Just saying. You are giving zero credit and only talking original PS1 Game for arguments

@slimj87d: What do you make of snakes shockwave feat with solid and liquid?

@warlockmage: I dont blame ya either. With arguments for Snake like that... Sigh.

How far is Snake going to get in 1 second of the start of the match to create a stealth plan?

Kinetic Energy of a 12 pound shield traveling at the speed of a ICBM missile made of vibranium >Explosive equivalent of a Stinger Missile measured in Joules.

Yeah, he'd kick the shit out of a 80 year old Snake too. So what.

@brucerogers: @slimj87d: @pipxeroth: @jashro44: ok im concern now. Are you guys really saying Solid Snake with his gauntlets of no prep battles vs a gauntlet of mini armies and super humans on top of that, that this is mere Punisher level? The genetic made soldier that is superior to the perfect genes (supposedly) of Liquid. Superior to Big Boss own feats and accomplishments. This same Solid Snake, master of close qaurter combat and stealth, is simply say Black Widow level?

Surely you are kidding. Just saying.

@sirfizzwhizz: All I set out to do was prove snakes stats aren't much better than caps. The_hajduk claimed they were spider-man level.

@slimj87d: Snake has plenty of speed feats and flash bangs to make distance and opt a stealth game. He done this to Sniper Wolf fine. But ignoring this possibility is easier I guess.

Your made up fan calcs are just that. Fan calcs. Shitty ones too. That Metal Gear armor is far superior to any ballistic missile armor or tank turret armor by more than Stinger Missile feats. Even the Molecule Blade of Gray Fox had issues fully penetrating. Guess we can ignore that. How convenient.

I also never said anything about fighting a 80 year old Snake. Try re reading it Slim.

@sirfizzwhizz: When did I say he was Punisher or Black Widow level? I think this is a good match, whereas Cap would stomp either Frank or Nat.

@pipxeroth: ok then. I can understand that.

Snake is good but he's extremely overrated around here, no thanks in part to people who use egregious amounts of hyperbole for these types of "obscure" characters. Steve gives him a taste of the old red, white and blue.

@jashro44: I get you want to slap down the downright stupid claims Nick makes for Snake, but what few MGS fans on here we need more help than hindrance lol

Wrong a 12 pound shield does not compare to the explosive power the comes with the stinger missile. The heat that comes with a missile exceeding a 10,000 degrees celsius or so in the center of the explosion instantly expands the air causing a ton of force capable of breaking ground on top of that going as fast as any missile adding impact.