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Posted by Chronicplane (8022 posts) 8 months, 29 days ago

Poll: Does Captain America Always Win: Captain America vs Solid Snake (87 votes)

Captain America 59%
Solid Snake 36%
Not Sure 6%

Figured I wanted to do one myself and big shout out to @k4tzm4n and @sirfizzwhizz for giving me this idea, This match up segment is based on the "Sentinel Of Liberty", The Super Soldier and Legendary War hero Steve Rogers "Captain America". Every Week I'll make a new match and as such I'll keep track of Cap's wins and losses to determine where Comicvine places him in terms to other characters in battle, With this said lets begin with the first.

Wins

Captain America vs Edward Elric

Captain America vs The Predator (Scar)

Captain America vs Spider-Gwen

Loses

Captain America vs Deathstroke (New 52)

Captain America vs Kraven The Hunter

Captain America vs Hero Killer Stain

Draw

none

The Match

No Caption Provided

Rules of the battle:

  • No prep time and no prior knowledge
  • Steve Rogers is regular version (No Hydra Cap), Snake is Composite Version (Prime Snake)
  • Win is by Incapitation, BFR (Battle-Field Removal), Death by all counts
  • All morals are on, Both of these fighters are in character however are serious and determined to win
  • Composite Standard gear and equipment (No metal gear unit)
  • Snake is able to communicate with Otocon via Codec
  • Starting distance between the fighters is 100 feet apart from each other and are visible
  • Location is in a generic city, Lets say Manhattan Night time
  • Environment is empty but accessible

This match up will close next Monday, Results of the pole will be posted after.

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#51 Posted by The_Hajduk (4894 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: But if David can match Steve in hand-to-hand, now you add all his composite gear into it, then you add the Spider-Man stats, give him Punisher weapons skills and Batman stealth skills... all against just Captain America...

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#52 Posted by HeroUp2112 (17556 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: But if David can match Steve in hand-to-hand, now you add all his composite gear into it, then you add the Spider-Man stats, give him Punisher weapons skills and Batman stealth skills... all against just Captain America...

Spider-Man? I didn't know he had anything like Spider-Man stats...the stealth skills won't do him any good starting visible at 100 feet, Cap has fought the Punisher and all his weapons skills before. The Spider-Man stats plus this CQC thing gives me pause, and I have no idea what composite gear he has...no one's brought it up before. Also, there's no such thing as "just" Captain America...I'm not fanboying here.

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#53 Posted by jashro44 (50794 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake doesn't have Spider-Man stats.

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#54 Posted by AotD (584 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Snake doesn't have Spider-Man stats.

he has cardboard box it`s way much better and dangerous

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#55 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36190 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Snake doesn't have Spider-Man stats.

Yes he does....

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#56 Edited by jashro44 (50794 posts) - - Show Bio

@mickey-mouse: stahp

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#57 Posted by Elijah_C_Washington (4606 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Snake is probably too much. I think 616 can beat Snake just from the games, though.

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#58 Posted by BeaconofStrength (12486 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Snake? Yeah composite Snake is way too much for Steve.

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#59 Posted by MiracleComeBack (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

snake dealt with way worse enemies than cap

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#60 Posted by blackpantherisb (6360 posts) - - Show Bio

All of the reasonable people in this thread say that Snake wins, and yet Steve still leads in the polls by more than 10%.

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#61 Posted by KanyeCosby (6274 posts) - - Show Bio

What are Snake’s best physical feats? What has he done to be on the level of Spiderman?

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#62 Posted by TheWatcherKing (17995 posts) - - Show Bio

This fight was decided from the get-go. Captain America does not know CQC so therefore he loses.

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#63 Posted by AllStarSuperman (42478 posts) - - Show Bio

Getting past the bullshit in this thread, if Twin Snakes can be taken into account, Snake wins. Show me Cap back flipping off a missile in flight.

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#65 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (7159 posts) - - Show Bio

A lot of bias here.

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#66 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

CQC is the ultimate martial art. It puts Hokuto Shinken to shame.

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#67 Posted by The_Hajduk (4894 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk said:

@heroup2112: But if David can match Steve in hand-to-hand, now you add all his composite gear into it, then you add the Spider-Man stats, give him Punisher weapons skills and Batman stealth skills... all against just Captain America...

Spider-Man? I didn't know he had anything like Spider-Man stats...the stealth skills won't do him any good starting visible at 100 feet, Cap has fought the Punisher and all his weapons skills before. The Spider-Man stats plus this CQC thing gives me pause, and I have no idea what composite gear he has...no one's brought it up before. Also, there's no such thing as "just" Captain America...I'm not fanboying here.

Didn't you read post #36? I was under the impression you were current on the discussion. I've been giving a lot of info about Snake so go back and read the thread so you can give your reaction.

@jashro44 said:

Snake doesn't have Spider-Man stats.

You guys should get current with the conversation. We're all talking about a composite Solid Snake here, that's what the OP says. Check out post #36, mostly the gifs in spoiler block. But if people want to stick to canon (the Kojima games) then that would be fine with me.

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#68 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#69 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Getting past the bullshit in this thread, if Twin Snakes can be taken into account, Snake wins. Show me Cap back flipping off a missile in flight.

A lot of bias here.

All of the reasonable people in this thread say that Snake wins, and yet Steve still leads in the polls by more than 10%.

Agreed. Issue is casual voters and alt accounts are going to vote Cap.

Another issue is Hadjuk, who I love, said so much stupid shit about Snake and stuff in the past, and now people spite vote against Snake.

It is what it is.

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#70 Posted by BruceRogers (16723 posts) - - Show Bio

What does backflipping off a missile even mean?

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#71 Edited by Jestersmiles (9756 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers said:

What does backflipping off a missile even mean?

I guess the feat is meant to be used as a speed feat? but the game is non canon so that why OP said composite, oh well. Also it not really a backflip he uses it as a spring board.

Loading Video...

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#72 Posted by BruceRogers (16723 posts) - - Show Bio
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#73 Posted by Jestersmiles (9756 posts) - - Show Bio
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#74 Edited by TruenBlue (3 posts) - - Show Bio
@lubub55 said:

Snake. With composite feats as specified here, it's a stomp.

Composite feats and useless Matrix backflipping doesn't change the fact that Solid Snake is not a super soldier. He's just trained to the peak. MAYBE his brother, Liquid Snake, can be counted as sort of a super soldier, but it's in a much lower way then Captain Steve Rogers leader of The Avengers and hero of WWII, literally the perfected next stage of human evolution. He's much stronger, faster, tougher, longer-lasting, and mentally advanced for Solid Snake to keep up with.

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#75 Posted by cdiddyman911 (5520 posts) - - Show Bio

Nevermind, this thread is weird, a lot of misinformation and bias from both sides.

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#76 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (7159 posts) - - Show Bio

@truenblue: Explain how captain america outstats snakes. Also Snake as an old fart already dodged Railgun fire. None of caps speed feats match that.

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#77 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (7159 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I always thought Hadjuk is pretty good. Idk what you mean by those things he might have said.

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#78 Posted by TruenBlue (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@truenblue: Explain how captain america outstats snakes. Also Snake as an old fart already dodged Railgun fire. None of caps speed feats match that.

The Super Soldier Serum boosted Steve Rogers to the next stage of human evolution. He can sprint at 60 MPH, and can see bullets. Snake's senses are not accelerated beyond human limits like that.

Captain America also does not tire, at all. With every move and with every step, little by little, Snake's depleting stamina will dull his movements. But Captain America will remain at his 100% no matter what. This means that even if they are evenly matched, Captain America will outlast Snake.

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#79 Posted by Warlockmage (8440 posts) - - Show Bio

Nevermind, this thread is weird, a lot of misinformation and bias from both sides.

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#80 Posted by lubub55 (12743 posts) - - Show Bio

What does backflipping off a missile even mean?

A missile was shot towards Snake from a helicopter, so he jumped towards it and landed on it, then flipped forwards off of it to avoid being hit by the explosion.

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#81 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (7159 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal said:

@truenblue: Explain how captain america outstats snakes. Also Snake as an old fart already dodged Railgun fire. None of caps speed feats match that.

The Super Soldier Serum boosted Steve Rogers to the next stage of human evolution. He can sprint at 60 MPH, and can see bullets. Snake's senses are not accelerated beyond human limits like that.

Captain America also does not tire, at all. With every move and with every step, little by little, Snake's depleting stamina will dull his movements. But Captain America will remain at his 100% no matter what. This means that even if they are evenly matched, Captain America will outlast Snake.

I think I already stated something that trumps whatever Cap has in terms of reaction time. Snake does his entire 20 hour missions and gets shot and has never tired out. Name me one moment Snake at his prime ever tired out when he isn't beat up like hell. Even so he still gets back up. You also tell me when Captain America has endured something that disintegrates humans in 5 seconds which Snake endured for 5 whole minutes as an old man in the microwave chamber. Next thing you know he got back up moments later to finish his fight with Liquid Ocelot. Snake was born with accelerated senses. You are only giving baseless claims. In fact he dealt with far worse than Cap has ever dealt with. He even beats practically anyone in their own game be it in Sniping against the best sniper in the world in her home field advantage on the side wearing a snow suit while Snake wears black. He actually manfights someone skilled and strong enough to handle a multi thousand tonner with cqc injecting him with the after that. Hell vamp danced around bullets and almost had Raiden beat. Raiden in his own right isn't a bad fighter. In fact as the main character of Mgs 2 he has already beaten someone who blocks bullets and one of the most trained superhumans in a sword fight. Going by scaling here Snake has already surpassed Captain in sheer skill alone by a wide margin.

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#82 Posted by BruceRogers (16723 posts) - - Show Bio
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#83 Posted by HeroUp2112 (17556 posts) - - Show Bio

@truenblue said:
@red_ruby_petal said:

@truenblue: Explain how captain america outstats snakes. Also Snake as an old fart already dodged Railgun fire. None of caps speed feats match that.

The Super Soldier Serum boosted Steve Rogers to the next stage of human evolution. He can sprint at 60 MPH, and can see bullets. Snake's senses are not accelerated beyond human limits like that.

Captain America also does not tire, at all. With every move and with every step, little by little, Snake's depleting stamina will dull his movements. But Captain America will remain at his 100% no matter what. This means that even if they are evenly matched, Captain America will outlast Snake.

I think I already stated something that trumps whatever Cap has in terms of reaction time. Snake does his entire 20 hour missions and gets shot and has never tired out. Name me one moment Snake at his prime ever tired out when he isn't beat up like hell. Even so he still gets back up. You also tell me when Captain America has endured something that disintegrates humans in 5 seconds which Snake endured for 5 whole minutes as an old man in the microwave chamber. Next thing you know he got back up moments later to finish his fight with Liquid Ocelot. Snake was born with accelerated senses. You are only giving baseless claims. In fact he dealt with far worse than Cap has ever dealt with. He even beats practically anyone in their own game be it in Sniping against the best sniper in the world in her home field advantage on the side wearing a snow suit while Snake wears black. He actually manfights someone skilled and strong enough to handle a multi thousand tonner with cqc injecting him with the after that. Hell vamp danced around bullets and almost had Raiden beat. Raiden in his own right isn't a bad fighter. In fact as the main character of Mgs 2 he has already beaten someone who blocks bullets and one of the most trained superhumans in a sword fight. Going by scaling here Snake has already surpassed Captain in sheer skill alone by a wide margin.

@heroup2112 said:
@the_hajduk said:

@heroup2112: But if David can match Steve in hand-to-hand, now you add all his composite gear into it, then you add the Spider-Man stats, give him Punisher weapons skills and Batman stealth skills... all against just Captain America...

Spider-Man? I didn't know he had anything like Spider-Man stats...the stealth skills won't do him any good starting visible at 100 feet, Cap has fought the Punisher and all his weapons skills before. The Spider-Man stats plus this CQC thing gives me pause, and I have no idea what composite gear he has...no one's brought it up before. Also, there's no such thing as "just" Captain America...I'm not fanboying here.

Didn't you read post #36? I was under the impression you were current on the discussion. I've been giving a lot of info about Snake so go back and read the thread so you can give your reaction.

@jashro44 said:

Snake doesn't have Spider-Man stats.

You guys should get current with the conversation. We're all talking about a composite Solid Snake here, that's what the OP says. Check out post #36, mostly the gifs in spoiler block. But if people want to stick to canon (the Kojima games) then that would be fine with me.

Okay, read up on everything (post 36, and some others, were especially enlightening) the gifs were especially helpful (the ones I could see clearly anyway, my old eyes or the darkness of them wouldn't let me see all of them very well). One thing is, I still don't have a clear idea of what kind of gadgets he has, but I'll assume they're at least Batman level (as you pointed out), plus some of his visible feats and stated feats.

Thing is, I've read a crap ton of Captain America and Avengers comics and Captain America has gone up against Spider-Man IN the Iron Spider suit and was winning handily until the fight had to be broken off (I've got the scans, well almost all of them...I have a bad feeling that people only want to post the scans where Cap was winning doing all the ass kicking for some reason but I KNOW how it went, there is a point where Spider-Man using the new "arms" of the Iron Spider suit, gives Cap a small cut on his face and shoots a ton of webbing at him that Cap dodges). Now, it should be pointed out that Cap did know Spider-Man very well, and even in the text of this exchange it's pointed out that Cap knows how Spider-Man fights and was able to use it against him, so Cap beating Spider-Man doesn't NECESSARILY mean he can just as easily beat Snake, but it DOES mean Snakes superior physicals will necessarily mean an automatic win. If it was pure hand to hand, maybe, but definitely not with the shield involved.

Furthermore, it is MASSIVELY impressive that Snake has been able to take out the cream of the crop of the people in his own community (I think you get what I mean) and even those above his "weight class", but Captain America has been doing this for decades as well. His tactical genius, astounding combat prowess, expertise at using his shield for defense and offense, his enhanced senses...especially his sight (I can also provide a scan proving that if you need), and the sheer list of foes way above HIS "weight class" that he's defeated is astounding as well.

Yes, this fight is MUUUUUCCCHHH closer than I originally though but I think Cap takes this closer to 6/10 than 8-9/10 (when I thought Snake was just the most bad ass Special Forces/Secret Agent guy like I originally misunderstood him to be).

.

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#84 Posted by Chronicplane (8022 posts) - - Show Bio
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#85 Posted by The_Hajduk (4894 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: Standing up to Peter in the Iron Spider armor is certainly one of Captain America's standout feats. Not only was he physically outclassed, but Peter was equipped with a top-of-the-line armored exoskeleton with numerous technology. Steve was able to offset all of this by studying Peter in advance of the battle, preparing mentally and physically to counteract all of Spider-Man's abilities and habits. On top of this, Peter was not strongly motivated to battle the living legend, and Steve knew this as well and exploited it.

Giving knowledge and preparation time to Captain America is especially dangerous because of his super soldier fighting brain, able to adapt to fighting styles even in combat, let alone when he has days to quietly meditate and strategize. There is no preparation time in this scenario though, so Captain America will not be battling Snake as optimally as he battled Peter. He won't know anything about Snake and is bound to be caught off guard a couple times, given Snake's specialty for that sort of thing. Unlike Steve, David actually thrives most in random encounters.

Let's compare the Iron Spider to a villain in Metal Gear Solid, the Cyborg Ninja.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

He's literally the world's greatest ninja, having died and being revived as the world's most powerful cyborg.

Frank Jaeger was actually Solid Snake's best friend, and the man who mentored him when he was still green. He was a child soldier and has been fighting nonstop since, so he has a lifetime of training and experience. He's so skilled that he can read people's movements like Cassandra Cain, and learn his enemy's moves faster than anyone else, like Cap. He can also do cool ninja things like sense shifts in air pressure. He was also the world's number 1 fighter and mercenary, in all of Metal Gear he is surpassed in battle skill only by the various Snakes (Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, Big Boss, etc)

So you take that kind of top-tier battle skill, with a lifetime of experience, and you give him stats that vastly exceed Spider-Man in every way.

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Solid Snake is the man able to defeat him, in just hand-to-hand combat.

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#86 Posted by HeroUp2112 (17556 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: Standing up to Peter in the Iron Spider armor is certainly one of Captain America's standout feats. Not only was he physically outclassed, but Peter was equipped with a top-of-the-line armored exoskeleton with numerous technology. Steve was able to offset all of this by studying Peter in advance of the battle, preparing mentally and physically to counteract all of Spider-Man's abilities and habits. On top of this, Peter was not strongly motivated to battle the living legend, and Steve knew this as well and exploited it.

Giving knowledge and preparation time to Captain America is especially dangerous because of his super soldier fighting brain, able to adapt to fighting styles even in combat, let alone when he has days to quietly meditate and strategize. There is no preparation time in this scenario though, so Captain America will not be battling Snake as optimally as he battled Peter. He won't know anything about Snake and is bound to be caught off guard a couple times, given Snake's specialty for that sort of thing. Unlike Steve, David actually thrives most in random encounters.

Let's compare the Iron Spider to a villain in Metal Gear Solid, the Cyborg Ninja.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

He's literally the world's greatest ninja, having died and being revived as the world's most powerful cyborg.

Frank Jaeger was actually Solid Snake's best friend, and the man who mentored him when he was still green. He was a child soldier and has been fighting nonstop since, so he has a lifetime of training and experience. He's so skilled that he can read people's movements like Cassandra Cain, and learn his enemy's moves faster than anyone else, like Cap. He can also do cool ninja things like sense shifts in air pressure. He was also the world's number 1 fighter and mercenary, in all of Metal Gear he is surpassed in battle skill only by the various Snakes (Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, Big Boss, etc)

So you take that kind of top-tier battle skill, with a lifetime of experience, and you give him stats that vastly exceed Spider-Man in every way.

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Solid Snake is the man able to defeat him, in just hand-to-hand combat.

Cap doesn't have to take meditation time to prepare for battles, and he was also holding back fighting Spider-Man. Captain America adjusts to who he's fighting and learns second by second to adapt to who he's fighting. With this new information I'd be willing to say the battle might go 5/5 but seriously, that's it. Snake/David is a WORLD CLASS bad ass deluxe, but so is Captain America. This would be a fight for the ages.

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#87 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake wins but close fight regardless. I love the polls say one thing but more people voted Snake this should be a classic tie.

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#89 Posted by The_Hajduk (4894 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake wins but close fight regardless. I love the polls say one thing but more people voted Snake this should be a classic tie.

It's because I came into the thread.

Notice how many more posts crediting Snake appeared after I made my arguments.

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#90 Posted by jashro44 (50794 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: Some of the feats you posted are impressive but some of them are over exaggerated.

  • I don't buy gray fox being an 100 tonner when it comes to striking. He wears an exo-skeleton which helps him lift a lot of weight but I don't think it augments his strength to much. Plus you've often argued in the past he had no leverage when he made that kick.
  • That punch isn't a shockwave. Liquid and Solid created a dust cloud....
  • Snake was being pushed back by the shockwave of the tank shell. He was not hit with the tank shell.
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#91 Posted by The_Hajduk (4894 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: Has Captain America ever defeated somebody as threatening as the Cyborg Ninja? Because Snake has several feats operating at that level, even in just hand-to-hand combat.

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You should watch these analyses on the cutscenes showing how Big Boss (he's wearing a mask against Volgin but that's definitely Big Boss)(Big Boss is Solid Snake's father and Solid Snake has defeated him multiple times) takes down Colonel Volgin and the assassin Quiet.

Both Colonel Volgin and Quiet are massively metahuman killers, just like the Cyborg Ninja. Volgin is a monster charged by over 10 million volts of electricity produced by his body. He can punch with far more power than an RPG, and throw firetrucks like toys. He's also much faster than Big Boss, a pro boxer, and an elite trained Colonel for the GRU.

Quiet was probably the most skilled assassin in the world during that era, and also had superspeed (she moved like a blur), superstrength (she can throw a grown man 20 feet in the air like a toy), and regeneration.

Big Boss, despite just being a peak human, is able to put them both away, not only with ease, but within mere seconds. This isn't PIS or bullshit either, because the analyses explain how he is using actual realistic techniques and tactics, just applied with the perfect skill in order to do this.

These videos don't even go into that much detail on the subtle details of how Big Boss realistically overpowers metahumans like this. I can post other analyses that describe his striking technique, and his perfect footwork.

Does Captain America have any feats of defeating foes this dangerous or overwhelming?

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#92 Posted by The_Hajduk (4894 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@the_hajduk: Some of the feats you posted are impressive but some of them are over exaggerated.

  • I don't buy gray fox being an 100 tonner when it comes to striking. He wears an exo-skeleton which helps him lift a lot of weight but I don't think it augments his strength to much. Plus you've often argued in the past he had no leverage when he made that kick.
  • That punch isn't a shockwave. Liquid and Solid created a dust cloud....
  • Snake was being pushed back by the shockwave of the tank shell. He was not hit with the tank shell.
  • OK forget about the REX feat. It's not like that's Frank's only feat. I posted a gif at the top of the second page where Frank is casually throwing bodies like rockets that crater steel walls. I'd like to see Steve try and weather that kind of force.
  • That's the kind of force that is created during a car crash. That's the closest thing I can equate it to, certainly two people punching each other would never blow up even one speck of dust, let alone erupt the whole background. For certain, Captain America has never made any type of shockwave with his strikes.
  • So what? The shells weren't direct impacts on his chest, OK so he's not the Hulk. But they were still exploding like, right in front of him. That kind of force would obliterate a human body.
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#93 Edited by jashro44 (50794 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk:

OK forget about the REX feat. It's not like that's Frank's only feat. I posted a gif at the top of the second page where Frank is casually throwing bodies like rockets that crater steel walls. I'd like to see Steve try and weather that kind of force.

Steve has been hit into a metal container with enough force to dent it by scourage. Pretty sure he's been punched by M'baku who has punched through steel. I would have to double check if Steve was actually punched by M'baku. I do know black panther has been without his vibranium suit so either way I think its reasonable Steve can take a hit which would dent steel:

No Caption Provided

That's the kind of force that is created during a car crash. That's the closest thing I can equate it to, certainly two people punching each other would never blow up even one speck of dust, let alone erupt the whole background. For certain, Captain America has never made any type of shockwave with his strikes.

What is this based on? Anyways Cap has striking feats like this:

No Caption Provided

Which would technically be above the force of a car crash. I mean honestly I doubt either feat was meant to compare to a car crash but cap has feats like that too. Its just the writers not doing calculations on feats.

So what? The shells weren't direct impacts on his chest, OK so he's not the Hulk. But they were still exploding like, right in front of him. That kind of force would obliterate a human body.

He was caught by the shock wave of the explosion. Vulcan Raven was explicitly stated to not be trying to kill him IIRC.

EDIT:

Steve also does have various showings of taking beatings from people like iron man and Namor. Even the measurable amounts of force he took from iron man is pretty impressive:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

So its not like Steve doesn't have similar showings as Snake taking hits from people like Gray Fox. I would say either way you want to look at the above feat its more impressive than Snake blocking a hit from Gray fox.

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#94 Posted by HeroUp2112 (17556 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: Has Captain America ever defeated somebody as threatening as the Cyborg Ninja? Because Snake has several feats operating at that level, even in just hand-to-hand combat.

Loading Video...
Loading Video...

You should watch these analyses on the cutscenes showing how Big Boss (he's wearing a mask against Volgin but that's definitely Big Boss)(Big Boss is Solid Snake's father and Solid Snake has defeated him multiple times) takes down Colonel Volgin and the assassin Quiet.

Both Colonel Volgin and Quiet are massively metahuman killers, just like the Cyborg Ninja. Volgin is a monster charged by over 10 million volts of electricity produced by his body. He can punch with far more power than an RPG, and throw firetrucks like toys. He's also much faster than Big Boss, a pro boxer, and an elite trained Colonel for the GRU.

Quiet was probably the most skilled assassin in the world during that era, and also had superspeed (she moved like a blur), superstrength (she can throw a grown man 20 feet in the air like a toy), and regeneration.

Big Boss, despite just being a peak human, is able to put them both away, not only with ease, but within mere seconds. This isn't PIS or bullshit either, because the analyses explain how he is using actual realistic techniques and tactics, just applied with the perfect skill in order to do this.

These videos don't even go into that much detail on the subtle details of how Big Boss realistically overpowers metahumans like this. I can post other analyses that describe his striking technique, and his perfect footwork.

Does Captain America have any feats of defeating foes this dangerous or overwhelming?

Specifically using joint locks to do so, I don't know for sure though it wouldn't surprise me. Defeating people doing what Big Boss's opponents were trying to do? He'd take them just as easily however he chose to do it.

Post 93 by Jashro makes a few more good points.

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#95 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (7159 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@the_hajduk:

OK forget about the REX feat. It's not like that's Frank's only feat. I posted a gif at the top of the second page where Frank is casually throwing bodies like rockets that crater steel walls. I'd like to see Steve try and weather that kind of force.

Steve has been hit into a metal container with enough force to dent it by scourage. Pretty sure he's been punched by M'baku who has punched through steel. I would have to double check if Steve was actually punched by M'baku. I do know black panther has been without his vibranium suit so either way I think its reasonable Steve can take a hit which would dent steel:

Snake also had his head smashed into a steel wall by Vamp. For me thats more impressive due to the fact it isn't exactly a body shot but a blow to the head which didn't render him unconscious.

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That's the kind of force that is created during a car crash. That's the closest thing I can equate it to, certainly two people punching each other would never blow up even one speck of dust, let alone erupt the whole background. For certain, Captain America has never made any type of shockwave with his strikes.

What is this based on? Anyways Cap has striking feats like this:

I believe his point was that Captain never created a shockwave on striking power alone. I mean that feat here shows him hitting someone denting a pole. Poles aren't actually that tough. Anyway that striking feat can be both explosive paired with a push hence the guy was thrown back to hit the pole. Had either Liquid or Snake been a normal human without a strong stance it could end up the same way honestly. They both resisted that force and wind pressure caused a shockwave through their fists to faces alone. This feat they did was all explosive force.

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Which would technically be above the force of a car crash. I mean honestly I doubt either feat was meant to compare to a car crash but cap has feats like that too. Its just the writers not doing calculations on feats.

So what? The shells weren't direct impacts on his chest, OK so he's not the Hulk. But they were still exploding like, right in front of him. That kind of force would obliterate a human body.

He was caught by the shock wave of the explosion. Vulcan Raven was explicitly stated to not be trying to kill him IIRC.

Nonetheless the force alone is strong enough to shatter everything in your body. Even if not hit directly by an explosion a huge amount of force came with it.

EDIT:

Steve also does have various showings of taking beatings from people like iron man and Namor. Even the measurable amounts of force he took from iron man is pretty impressive:

Snake took a punch that caused a shockwave and had his head banged to a steel wall denting it. That didn't make him bleed. Although I am not entirely sure how badly they wanted Captain to die or how big is their striking power. I find it quite similar though except one wasn't fatally wounded like the other.

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So its not like Steve doesn't have similar showings as Snake taking hits from people like Gray Fox. I would say either way you want to look at the above feat its more impressive than Snake blocking a hit from Gray fox.

With Snake's own superhuman strength creating a good stance to block a good amount of force Fox still pushed him quite far back with the kick. Its also a good indication of how much more powerful Fox is compared to Snake considering a block like that of the same weight class wouldn't push him so far back or at all. Fox also being trained as an elite would most likely know how to land a good kick. Consider that Snake blocked that hit successfully.

Feats are similar but I am not convinced that Cap's feats are more impressive.

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#96 Posted by jashro44 (50794 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal:

Snake also had his head smashed into a steel wall by Vamp. For me thats more impressive due to the fact it isn't exactly a body shot but a blow to the head which didn't render him unconscious.

Captain america was hit in the head by Iron Man in the scans I posted. Also hit in the head by spider-man using his own shield.

I believe his point was that Captain never created a shockwave on striking power alone. I mean that feat here shows him hitting someone denting a pole. Poles aren't actually that tough. Anyway that striking feat can be both explosive paired with a push hence the guy was thrown back to hit the pole. Had either Liquid or Snake been a normal human without a strong stance it could end up the same way honestly. They both resisted that force and wind pressure caused a shockwave through their fists to faces alone. This feat they did was all explosive force.

I wouldn't say they created a shock wave. They created a dust cloud with there punch. I'm confused with what explosive force your talking about with Cap's punch? The force was all him and there was no explosion. I remember I posted the feat in another thread and someone posted the below graphic. So I would say caps feat is actually better than snakes in terms of pure strength.

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There is also this where a truck crashes into a street light, and the street light gets titled but isn't actually dented:

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Nonetheless the force alone is strong enough to shatter everything in your body. Even if not hit directly by an explosion a huge amount of force came with it.

I'm not familiar with the shockwave of tank shells so I'll take your word for it. Regardless cap has feats to suggest he can withstand punishment that would shatter bones easily like jumping out of air planes with enough force to crater the ground or crush cars. Or Steve being thrown into John Steele with enough force to crater the ground from war machine. All of that would also cripple or break every bone in your body.

Snake took a punch that caused a shockwave and had his head banged to a steel wall denting it. That didn't make him bleed. Although I am not entirely sure how badly they wanted Captain to die or how big is their striking power. I find it quite similar though except one wasn't fatally wounded like the other.

Iron man never wanted to kill cap (I would assume). He did hit him with enough force to hit him through a concrete wall, and than hit cap repeatedly and still didn't put him down. He than used sonics which cap was able to endure to an extent.

With Snake's own superhuman strength creating a good stance to block a good amount of force Fox still pushed him quite far back with the kick. Its also a good indication of how much more powerful Fox is compared to Snake considering a block like that of the same weight class wouldn't push him so far back or at all. Fox also being trained as an elite would most likely know how to land a good kick. Consider that Snake blocked that hit successfully.

I agree gray fox is stronger than Snake. Snake beating him is a good feat.

Feats are similar but I am not convinced that Cap's feats are more impressive.

Well that's fair. Snake is impressive and he can win. I was just responding to those specific feats @the_hajduk posted. I felt like those 3 feats were being exaggerated. And I also don't think snake is totally out of caps league like people are implying.

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#97 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (7159 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@red_ruby_petal:

Snake also had his head smashed into a steel wall by Vamp. For me thats more impressive due to the fact it isn't exactly a body shot but a blow to the head which didn't render him unconscious.

Captain america was hit in the head by Iron Man in the scans I posted. Also hit in the head by spider-man using his own shield.

Well what I was trying to say here was that in the same manner Snake didn't suffer any larger injury than captain did. In those scans captain america was bleeding from that hit.

I believe his point was that Captain never created a shockwave on striking power alone. I mean that feat here shows him hitting someone denting a pole. Poles aren't actually that tough. Anyway that striking feat can be both explosive paired with a push hence the guy was thrown back to hit the pole. Had either Liquid or Snake been a normal human without a strong stance it could end up the same way honestly. They both resisted that force and wind pressure caused a shockwave through their fists to faces alone. This feat they did was all explosive force.

I wouldn't say they created a shock wave. They created a dust cloud with there punch. I'm confused with what explosive force your talking about with Cap's punch? The force was all him and there was no explosion. I remember I posted the feat in another thread and someone posted the below graphic. So I would say caps feat is actually better than snakes in terms of pure strength.

Well like how often do you see cars break. They are covered in thin sheets of metal so it wouldn't surprise me to how easily they break. Well that does show poles are stronger than how I would usually imagine it. It does show it created a shockwave. Actually the way it was they portrayed the feat was similar to how a ship crashes to another ship causing the dust to move in such a way. It meant the ground shook upon impact. Considering the ground it covered there must have really been a significant amount of force done that time especially considering the size and weight ( 500 ) tons. Now think of something that can cause a dust cloud going of the same manner to a 500 ton object. If it was just creating a dust cloud it wouldn't have shot up suddenly like how the feat was portrayed there. I won't undersell the pole feet but this feat Snake did was impressive. Explosive force is the force done under an impact. Its different from pushing or pulling. Its that force that occurs in like a milisecond. Specially when you punch. Sometimes when you punch you add a little push to it making the person go back so it isn't exactly as impressive. A concrete example is doing a fast punch then retracting your hand so no push was done. 99% of the damage comes from the explosive force. Thats how I call it or recall it being called. From what I think in fiction if you cause a shockwave you have done more explosive force. Like the wind pressure caused by an explosion suddenly expanding since it happens instantly.

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There is also this where a truck crashes into a street light, and the street light gets titled but isn't actually dented:

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Nonetheless the force alone is strong enough to shatter everything in your body. Even if not hit directly by an explosion a huge amount of force came with it.

I'm not familiar with the shockwave of tank shells so I'll take your word for it. Regardless cap has feats to suggest he can withstand punishment that would shatter bones easily like jumping out of air planes with enough force to crater the ground or crush cars. Or Steve being thrown into John Steele with enough force to crater the ground from war machine. All of that would also cripple or break every bone in your body.

Snake took a punch that caused a shockwave and had his head banged to a steel wall denting it. That didn't make him bleed. Although I am not entirely sure how badly they wanted Captain to die or how big is their striking power. I find it quite similar though except one wasn't fatally wounded like the other.

Iron man never wanted to kill cap (I would assume). He did hit him with enough force to hit him through a concrete wall, and than hit cap repeatedly and still didn't put him down. He than used sonics which cap was able to endure to an extent.

Comparable but Snake had his head smashed into a steel wall. I reckon that is a better feat.

With Snake's own superhuman strength creating a good stance to block a good amount of force Fox still pushed him quite far back with the kick. Its also a good indication of how much more powerful Fox is compared to Snake considering a block like that of the same weight class wouldn't push him so far back or at all. Fox also being trained as an elite would most likely know how to land a good kick. Consider that Snake blocked that hit successfully.

I agree gray fox is stronger than Snake. Snake beating him is a good feat.

Feats are similar but I am not convinced that Cap's feats are more impressive.

Well that's fair. Snake is impressive and he can win. I was just responding to those specific feats @the_hajduk posted. I felt like those 3 feats were being exaggerated. And I also don't think snake is totally out of caps league like people are implying.

I was just trying to make a few points here and there to why I think it isn't how you think it seems.

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#98 Edited by The_Hajduk (4894 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

What you're doing is digging into Cap's wide breadth of history and appearances, and cherrypicking the most astounding feats he has ever performed, and presenting them as if that represents his capabilities in every single fight. Despite the fact that your scans are all separated by decades and all of them are under different writers.

But if Steve really is just throwing out metahuman launching/street pole busting hooks in every fight like it's nothing, why is it that he still finds himself matched by peak humans on a regular basis? How come that same hook doesn't take off Batroc and Crossbones' heads, during any of the dozen times Steve has fought them both? I seriously doubt that Steve holds back against them, especially Crossbones, because Steve plain hates that guy. And remember when Steve was a bloodlusted drug addict or something and fought Daredevil? Peak human Matt Murdock was just fine weathering the blows of an indisputably bloodlusted Steve Rogers. Captain America has far more showings operating at this level then some ridiculous superhuman level, the ratio is literally 98% to 2%.

Sometimes Captain America doesn't even oneshot fodder.

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If goddamn Iron Man is really wailing on Steve with all he's got and Steve is just like bring it on... then how did Crossbones knock him out? Brubaker wrote that.

Solid Snake is different. He almost never fights humans. The only "humans" he has ever fought H2H are Liquid and Ocelot, but they are only as "human" as Snake himself is, especially in a composite because that now includes Big Boss's feats of lifting and throwing Gears (he has at least 3)

I would never call the canon Snake a superhuman, but he and everyone else quite obviously are in a composite. Every fight Snake partakes in is consistent and he gets some kind of superhuman feat, whether it be tanking a grenade or some kind of uncanny feat of reaction time. Every single cutscene in TTS is like The Matrix, and same with the comic books because they follow TTS, and apparently the novels are the worst offenders of all and give Snake his greatest feats yet.

That is why this fight isn't fair. One is canon and the other isn't, unfair. Either limit it to canon or make Steve composite too. Steve can't stand up to a composite Snake because Snake gets all the skills of his canon self, plus all the physicals from other sources.

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#99 Edited by The_Hajduk (4894 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: That's a great point. The ground was definitely shaking violently making that a feat genuinely out of Cap's league.

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#100 Edited by slimj87d (15629 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America physicals are being underwhelmed here. And since we're using composite snake, I'm going to go with all of Cap's high end showings.

I'm on my phone. Everything I point out can be found here.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-uugieboogie-vs-captain-batman-ftw-voting-open-1601135/?page=1

Durability wise, he's been shown to:

Tank a ground zeros explosion which took down a building.

Tank an explosion when Gambit charged his chest. This explosion ripped and shredded a large tree apart and left a small crater. That's far greater than having C4 explode on his chest.

He's been punched in the face 100s of feet into the air. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111143187/4095821-capjumpsonplane_zps17fb671d.jpg

He's also take the a vicious beating from namor who bashed him into rocks and they blew apart.

Speed wise, the guy can literally see bullets in slow motion as he's told Sharon Carter.

He's actually been shown to move faster than a bullet multiple times after the bullets were fired. Heck, he's actually intercepted and outran 3 bullets fired before.

This is a guy that casually runs at 60 mph holding a teenager and 12 lb shield.

You'd have to be literally 25+ times more durable than a normal human to sustain that kind of impact from running.

Shield throwing power and speed wise,

He can throw his shield through tanks, truck and engines, helicopters, cars, etc.

The fastest I've ever seen him throw his shield was catching up to a large icbm missile, which travels up to 7,000 m/s.

He had thrown his shield from you the ground up sky high where Namor was and knocked namor out before.

He's capable of throwing this shield faster thanks bullets, at speeds where they're slice through vehicles and if aimed nicely, can knock out someone LIKE namor.

One of the best skill feats that I often see underwhelmed is him taking out a group of SSS in a depowered state. He became skinny and frail but he took out men that were trained soldiers who were probably 100 times stronger, far faster and more durable than he was.

Senses wise, he has been shown to have enhanced senses hearing vehicles far away during a blizzard.

I can go on. Snake's guns won't be that useful against someone that can see the bullets and dodge them and potentially outrun them if he needs to. Snake's striking power isn't greater than this

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111143187/4095821-capjumpsonplane_zps17fb671d.jpg