Doctor Manhattan Vs Silver Surfer

who would win

stalemate.

Dr.M will make silver surfer go KA-BOOM just like he did to rorschach

well lets compare shall we?

lets start with Dr. M

Jon is the only character in the Watchmen series to explicitly possess superhuman abilities (although the details of the plot presuppose the existence of genuine human psychics). Throughout Watchmen, he is shown to be immensely powerful and seemingly invulnerable to all harm; a clear limit to his powers is never explicitly shown. Jon has complete awareness of and control over atomic and subatomic particles. He can alter his body's size, coloration, density, and strength. He does not appear to age, need food (although he is shown to eat regardless of this), water, or air, and is, for all intents and purposes, immortal at thirty years old. In addition, he is even able to reconstruct his body if completely disintegrated. He can teleport himself and others over great (even interplanetary) distances, but the exact limit to the number of people other than himself he can teleport at one time or the distance he can teleport them is unknown. It is quite possible there may be no limit since on one occasion he teleports a whole crowd of rioters away from the streets and each into their individual homes. However, he seems unable or unwilling to prevent the side effects others experience during teleportation; Laurie, for instance, always vomits on arrival and two of the demonstrators had heart attacks -- something Jon seems to dismiss in favor of having prevented a full-blown riot where more people would have been injured.

Jon's near-limitless powers are further amplified in comparison to the apparent lack of any other "super-powered" individuals. Although Veidt is obviously the second-most dangerous character in the series, as Jon himself observes, "...the world's smartest man means no more to me than it's smartest termite."

Due to his non-linear perception of time, he sees the past, present and future simultaneously, although he is apparently unable to change the future, regardless of the outcome. For instance, he does nothing to prevent the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, even though he is aware it is going to happen as he meets the President. His only weakness appears to be tachyons a large burst of them can 'jam' or slow his ability to see the future to a large extent, as well as temporarily confusing his perception of the "present time".

In addition to these powers, Jon is able to phase any part of his body through solid objects without damaging them, produce multiple copies of himself which function independently of each other, project destructive energy, create force fields, transmute and create matter, move objects without physically touching them (telekinesis), reverse entropy, and, he suggests, create life and walk on the surface of the sun. At one point in the Watchmen story-line it is stated that, in the event of a nuclear war, he would be capable of destroying upwards of 99% of all Soviet nuclear missiles while at the same time 'destroying' large areas of Russia. As a result of these capabilities, Jon becomes central to the United States' Cold War strategy of deterrence.

and now the surfer

The Silver Surfer wields the Power Cosmic, granting him superhuman strength, stamina, durability, and the ability to absorb and manipulate the universe's ambient energy for a variety of effects. The Surfer can navigate through interstellar space, dimensional barriers, and hyperspace, which he can enter to exceed the speed of light when flying on his board, and has even proven capable of time travel on several occasions.

The Surfer sustains himself by converting matter into energy, does not require food, water, air, or sleep, and can survive within nearly any known natural environment, including deep space, hyperspace, blackholes and the center of stars. The Surfer can analyze and manipulate matter and energy, and molecularly restructure or animate matter at will, even transmuting elements or creating objects. He can also project energy in various forms for offensive and defensive use, including the erection of force shields, and bolts of cosmic force powerful enough to destroy entire planets and planetoids. He can utilize the Power Cosmic to augment his superhuman strength to indeterminate levels. The Surfer can heal living organisms, though he cannot raise the dead,and he has proven capable of revitalizing and evolving organic life on a planet-wide scale. He can alter the size of himself or of other matter, cast illusions, and phase through solid matter.

His senses enable him to detect objects and concentrations of energy light years away and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail, including life energies of living beings. The Surfer can even see through time, and with concentration he can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity.He has demonstrated telepathic ability, including mind-reading on occasion, and has proven to be able to influence human emotion and sensation.

these two are fairly well matched. In fact since both posses the ability to see through time(the surfer most likely to a lesser extent) the fight would end in a stalemate without any action on either side. They would both see the near future of what would occur and see that the battle would be a near endless deadlock and would part ways peacefully acknowledging any conflict would be illogical and pointless.

someone decided to finally pit these two agaist each other.
Surfer as galactuses herald, not having emotions, would very well put this in a deadlock.
as it is now, I would give this tight battle to Dr. Manhaten. Due to this apparent lack of emotion he has towards others, he would not bother with preliminaries, once he's got the feel of Surfer's power, he'll up his own and finish the Surfer off for the win. 

Surfer will create a black hole and he'll put Dr. M in it.

or

He can also trap Dr. M in a tachyon energy prism for the rest of eternity.

Dr.M would win this match up if anything, but I honestly see a scenario of what  Razealim said.

I don't think SS can just trap Dr. M in tachyon energy prison, one thing I think that would happen that nobody has mentioned yet is Dr. M would just duplicate himself and literally out power the SS. If one Dr. M would be too much for SS, then what would SS do against multiple Dr. M's? lol not much.

I'll say a tie or stalemate, but with Dr. M having the edge.

Dr Manhattan

Silver surfer, easily.

Dr Manhattan can reform himself when destroyed. Surfer can't

Surfer wins. Dr. Manhattan has no feats that show he can take on Herald level beings. It's possible, but there is nothing to prove he is capable. I'm basing this off of the movie and what I've seen in the battle threads of the comic. I never actually read the comic, so I could be wrong.

Here we go again..

When Dr Manhattan's form is destroyed, all that is left is a form of electromagnetic energy that resembles a consciousness per the source material. Surfer is basically Marvel's top guy when it comes to energy manipulation. Manhattan goes down.

..this one could go either way really, but it is a fair point that Dr Manhattan has no feats against any one above streetleveller ability. Being able to turn Rorshach to mush by dissembling his molecules doesn't mean it will work on Surfer. Dr Manhattan was based loosely on Captain Atom and Atom has never been able to disintegrate Superman in their battles...so as Surfer has Superman levels of invulnerability, I am not sure Dr Manhattan would be able to do his thing. After all the Surfer is on another plane to anyone in the Watchmen.

However, I am open to being convinced by knowledgeable fans of Surfer/Manhattan...

Dr. Manhattan gets stomped every which way from sunday.

The best answer..

@masterkungfu: Well then the loser is whoever get's beaten first (Common sense) and What can Manhattan do that would cause surfer to need to reform

@king_saturn: I agree...

No comic feats from Dr.M = Surfer Ftw

@thekilborne: How can you say that? He exploded a tank. Those things are....like.....really tough.

@masterkungfu: Silver Surfer has reformed himself from molecules, when he was fighting uni-lord.

Silver Surfer wins, more abilities and better feats; his presence alone killed everyone on the planet, which meant that he had to genetically evolve a whole planet for them to survive.

Surfer

@kingant27: don't think surfer ever has done that, prove me wrong then. as for feats you're comparing 50+ years of history against a movie and 12 comic books. doesn't seem fair does it. a lot of Doc's powers are implied because the series is too short for him to do anything for too extraordinary, not to mention the small roster of characters in his universe.

@swordmasterd: vaporize him and plenty more. Doc can see the future so knows exactly what will happen.

Doesn't matter. By Dr. Manhattan's own admission, he can see the future, but can't do anything to change it. So he'll just see his ass getting handed to him before it happens. Yay?

@xiix: If Sarcasm =)

If not =(

Surf's up.

Surfer.

Surfer absorbs Manhattan, or destroys Manhattan's soul, or attacks him telepathically, etc.

This keeps getting quoted, but let's break down the fallacy here. Manhattan cannot change what he sees. Period. He cannot change time, because things get screwed all to hell and back, and even if he did change time, by the very nature of what happens when he does, he could only ever get a stalemate, even against opponents who cannot see the future. Let me break it down further, from my Dr Manhattan blog:

Could Manhattan change time if he wanted to? Well, here is the answer:

He changed an event, which fractured the quantum reality, and in each new timeline/reality, other choices were made which further fractured those timelines/realities creating further timelines/realities, so forth and so on. As shown in the book, in one reality he went with Silk and in another he still went with Rorschach -- a fractured quantum reality wherein he is the quantum observer. Each reality is equally real and valid.

He doesn't just observe and decide what happens. He can travel to points in his own timeline and like a time traveler, can change events, but as is shown in the story, when he does so, he messes things up royally:

That should give an idea of the scope of what he did, each and every choice he could and will make causes a fracture, and each and every reality ends up like the below:

You see, according to his words: "I know that I can ride the timeline back and forth between the future and the moment of my creation..."

He is in effect a time traveler along his own timeline and has shown the ability to change things and impose his will on them, which has shown the effect of fracturing quantum reality. It's the whole basis of the story, hence the planet blowing up at the end of issue number 2 and him going to fix things, the main true blue (har har) Manhattan lost control of things. He changed an event in the past and due to his unique position in the timestream fractured the quantum reality (an unexpected event since he thought he would change one tiny slip of paper and the timeline would move on from there changed) -- which obviously he had no control over once it started happening hence the end of the world scenario and his need to go and fix things.

When he states he is a slave to predetermination, there is a good reason for it as you can plainly see.

So no, his temporal ability is useless, and even if he did use it, as all he would do is accidentally create equally real and valid alternate realities, ones where he wins and loses based on his actions, which he cannot control unless he goes back and changes all of his actions to the real time line, in which he would probably lose if the time bit was his only option for a victory.

Manhattan wrecks.

Silver Surfer curbstomps.

Silver Surfer.

Stalemate

@leo-343: cause I don't think surfer can kill or incap him nor do I think Dr.m can kill or incap surfer

@leo-343: transmuting won't work as He should be able to pull himself together, and he could probably telephone out of a black hole. I'll give you telepathic assault though

Surfer wins.

Bump.

Here are the following reasons why Doctor Manhattan is superior to Silver Surfer when it comes to overall abilities and powers:

1. Doctor Manhattan isn't a slave, servant or a worker for another entity. his powers are not granted to him by an external entity. This means that his powers and abilities are fully his. He has total control over his capabilities. Silver Surfer on the other hand, has been given his powers by Galactus. Silver Surfer is Galactus's slave. His powers are within galactus's control. Meaning at any given moment, his powers can be taken away from him. That already puts poor Silver Surfer at a disadvantage as he doesn't have the same control over his powers and abilities as Doctor Manhattan does.
2. Doctor Manhattan doesn't need a silly surfboard for his powers and abilities to work. All his abilities are innate. This means he doesn't need to rely on any device for any of his powers to work.
3. Doctor Manhattan is a human, whilst Silver Surfer is an unknown alien. Thus, Doctor Manhattan, from my perspective as a human is more relate-able, more respectable and ultimately more admirable and inspirational.
4. Doctor Manhattan could teleport to any place in the universe. Silver Surfer on the other hand needs his silly Surf Board to fly to places like a primitive 'cosmic being'. Proving that Doctor Manhattan's mode of travel is infinitely (Hyperbole) faster, more efficient and effective. Also that he isn't as limited as Silver Surfer is when it comes to travelling.
5. Doctor Manhattan could teleport himself and others to anywhere he likes. Silver Surfer has never shown that ability.
6. Doctor Manhattan could create as many copies of himself as he likes. All with the same abilities as his original self and linked to one consciousness. Silver Surfer has never shown such ability.

Silver Surfer is significantly out of his depth here against Doctor Manhattan. On one hand you have a character who is infinitely (Hyperbole) more versatile (Doctor Manhattan) whilst on the other hand you have a character who is severely limited (Silver Surfer).

Most importantly, Doctor Manhattan is his own man. His own person. Meaning, all his abilities are innate and he is the one that is in full control over his abilities. His abilities are his own product. They're based on what he's done. In contrast, Silver Surfer is simply a product of Galactus. He has sold his soul to Galactus. He is not his own being like Doctor Manhattan is. His powers are not totally innate like Doctor Manhattan's. He doesn't have full control over his abilities as it's owned by Galactus. He is basically Galactus's puppy. He is Galactus's toilet paper. Silver Surfer is nothing more than a tool for Galactus. Yet, people have the nerves to put him in the same league as Doctor Manhattan? Give me a break!

Doctor Manhattan tears Silver Surfer a new one, forcing Silver Surfer to plead to his master Galactus to save his life and protect him. Doctor Manhattan then proceeds to telling Galactus how pathetic his most powerful herald is. How pathetic his products are. How stupendously primitive his most powerful product (Silver Surfer) is in comparison to himself.

Let us know when Silver Surfer's powers are his own innate powers and are not granted by another being. Let us know when he has full control over his powers and is not a slave to somebody else giving and controlling his powers. Let us know when Silver Surfer can accomplish anywhere near the amount of things Doctor Manhattan can. Then, he might qualify as a challenging opponent for Doctor Manhattan.

Surfer one-shoots original Watchmen Manhattan. N52/Rebirth is another matter.

@ganstaz003: Hmm, your post has so many inaccuracies but I will try to address them one by one.

Doctor Manhattan isn't a slave, servant or a worker for another entity. his powers are not granted to him by an external entity. This means that his powers and abilities are fully his. He has total control over his capabilities. Silver Surfer on the other hand, has been given his powers by Galactus. Silver Surfer is Galactus's slave. His powers are within galactus's control. Meaning at any given moment, his powers can be taken away from him. That already puts poor Silver Surfer at a disadvantage as he doesn't have the same control over his powers and abilities as Doctor Manhattan does.

By that logic the penguin and the riddler are more powerful than the Spectre because they do not answer to anyone while his powers are at mercy of his creator. See how silly that sounds? And Galactus having the ability to make or break the Surfer's power has nothing to do with him using it effectively in combat. Plus it's not like Manhattan will last 5 seconds against Galactus himself either, even if he wasn't created by him.

Doctor Manhattan doesn't need a silly surfboard for his powers and abilities to work. All his abilities are innate. This means he doesn't need to rely on any device for any of his powers to work.

I don't think you have got the memo, but Surfer does NOT need his board for his powers to work. Don't go by what have seen in that movie. He has been every bit as capable without it and he mostly just uses it for superficial purposes. Not to mention the fact that he can manipulate his board at will.

Doctor Manhattan is a human, whilst Silver Surfer is an unknown alien. Thus, Doctor Manhattan, from my perspective as a human is more relate-able, more respectable and ultimately more admirable and inspirational.

I fail to see how this is applicable in combat. Either way, Jon growing increasingly detached and uncaring about humans was one of the main plot points of the novel. I am not sure how you could miss that. Surfer has shown far better human like behaviour than Manhattan ever has.

Doctor Manhattan could teleport to any place in the universe. Silver Surfer on the other hand needs his silly Surf Board to fly to places like a primitive 'cosmic being'. Proving that Doctor Manhattan's mode of travel is infinitely (Hyperbole) faster, more efficient and effective. Also that he isn't as limited as Silver Surfer is when it comes to travelling.

Good for him, so can the Surfer and he has had far better feats of it to his name. Surfer can also travel to the astral plane, can Manhattan do that?. (hint, he can't). I have already debunked that part about the board.

Doctor Manhattan could teleport himself and others to anywhere he likes. Silver Surfer has never shown that ability.

Says who?

Doctor Manhattan could create as many copies of himself as he likes. All with the same abilities as his original self and linked to one consciousness. Silver Surfer has never shown such ability.

I don't recall Surfer doing this but regardless, he has shown far better versatility with his powers than Dr M. He can drop him with Telepathy alone.

Silver Surfer is significantly out of his depth here against Doctor Manhattan. On one hand you have a character who is infinitely (Hyperbole) more versatile (Doctor Manhattan) whilst on the other hand you have a character who is severely limited (Silver Surfer).

Most importantly, Doctor Manhattan is his own man. His own person. Meaning, all his abilities are innate and he is the one that is in full control over his abilities. His abilities are his own product. They're based on what he's done. In contrast, Silver Surfer is simply a product of Galactus. He has sold his soul to Galactus. He is not his own being like Doctor Manhattan is. His powers are not totally innate like Doctor Manhattan's. He doesn't have full control over his abilities as it's owned by Galactus. He is basically Galactus's puppy. He is Galactus's toilet paper. Silver Surfer is nothing more than a tool for Galactus. Yet, people have the nerves to put him in the same league as Doctor Manhattan? Give me a break!

Doctor Manhattan tears Silver Surfer a new one, forcing Silver Surfer to plead to his master Galactus to save his life and protect him. Doctor Manhattan then proceeds to telling Galactus how pathetic his most powerful herald is. How pathetic his products are. How stupendously primitive his most powerful product (Silver Surfer) is in comparison to himself.

That's some nice fan fiction you have written there. Unfortunately, none of this will play out this way. Also for the record, Surfer hasn't been a 'slave' to galactus for a very long time now and if you really get down to it, being subservient to an eternal nigh immortal being is far better than being the bitch and weapon of the government full of normal guys. Think about that

Let us know when Silver Surfer's powers are his own innate powers and are not granted by another being. Let us know when he has full control over his powers and is not a slave to somebody else giving and controlling his powers. Let us know when Silver Surfer can accomplish anywhere near the amount of things Doctor Manhattan can. Then, he might qualify as a challenging opponent for Doctor Manhattan.

Let us know when Manhattan has shown better offensive capability than blowing up a tank or better feats than making multiple copies of himself for bedding Laurie and working, and other simple feats which even a mid tier matter manipulator can do in their sleep. Surfer blows all his feats out of proportion and he will stomp the featless doc in 10 seconds flat. 90% of Manhattans abilities are nothing but smoke from hype and speculation.

I am of course speaking of pre rebirth Manhattan since that was the version used when this thread was made. We still need to see something more from the current version before saying he can play with the big guys.

This thread was made before rebirth, so we are using that version

@brucerogers:

By that logic the penguin and the riddler are more powerful than the Spectre because they do not answer to anyone while his powers are at mercy of his creator.

I should've made myself clear. I meant to say Doctor Manhattan is a better character than Silver Surfer to me because of the fact that nobody holds any authority over him or his powers. In contrast, Galactus holds pretty much 100% authority over all of Silver Surfer's powers. I didn't mean to say that therefore: Doctor Manhattan is more powerful.

And Galactus having the ability to make or break the Surfer's power has nothing to do with him using it effectively in combat.

Although I'm not basing my conclusion that Doctor manhattan being a more powerful character on nobody having the authority over his powers unlike Silver Surfer, Silver Surfer is still significantly limited in what he can do. He by no means has full control over the source of his power. Nowhere near. Doctor manhattan on the other hand owns his powers like a being above everybody else. Nobody has any authority over his powers and abilities. Thus, unlike Silver Surfer, nobody could make or take his powers. It's entirely his. He has 100% control over the source of his power in contrast to Silver Surfer who only owns a portion of it. The only real advantage Silver Surfer has over Doctor Manhattan is experience. Doctor Manhattan isn't as experienced at using the full potential of his powers as Silver Surfer has over his limited potential. Silver Surfer is more experienced at using small portions of his powers whereas Doctor Manhattan is less experienced at using more of his powers. Meaning that despite Doctor Manhattan having more powers than Silver Surfer, Silver Surfer is more experienced at using less of what he has whilst Doctor Manhattan is the total opposite. With the same amount of experience, Doctor Manhattan curbstomps Silver Surfer lopsidedly. The only reason why it's even a contest in the first place is because of the lack of experience of Doctor Manhattan.

Plus it's not like Manhattan will last 5 seconds against Galactus himself either, even if he wasn't created by him.

It's totally debatable. Also, like I mentioned above, the main shortcoming for Doctor Manhattan in a battle against Galactus is the same as in a battle against Silver Surfer, which is experience. Galactus is significantly more experienced at using his powers. Doctor Manhattan isn't. Thus, that'd be the only real reason why I'd favor Galactus in a battle against Doctor Manhattan. Also, a fight between them would last a lot longer than just 5 seconds in my opinion even if Galactus eventually wins.

but Surfer does NOT need his board for his powers to work.

What powers?

Don't go by what have seen in that movie

I'm not!

He has been every bit as capable without it

I'm assuming Silver Surfer using his powers without needing his board? If so, then why does he have a board. It'd make no sense for Superman to use a jetpack to fly when he can naturally fly.

and he mostly just uses it for superficial purposes.

That's just pure speculation and assumption from your behalf. I have no reason to believe he can use his full powers without his board by virtue of him using his board regularly.

Not to mention the fact that he can manipulate his board at will.

Maybe true. However, the fact that he needs a surfboard in the first place proves how limited he is considering he can't use his powers directly from his body instead. Doctor Manhattan doesn't need an external device to utilize his powers like Silver Surfer needs to.

I fail to see how this is applicable in combat. Either way, Jon growing increasingly detached and uncaring about humans was one of the main plot points of the novel. I am not sure how you could miss that. Surfer has shown far better human like behaviour than Manhattan ever has.

Again, I should've clarified. I like Doctor Manhattan better as a character because of that reason. Not that he'll therefore have any advantages in combat. I relate to Doctor Manhattan because he displays what a human could achieve eventually through enhancements, be it through evolution or through technology. Showing human like behaviour isn't the source of why I like him.

Surfer can also travel to the astral plane, can Manhattan do that?. (hint, he can't)

Doctor Manhattan is said to have omni - dimensional awareness. This means if Astral Plane is a dimension, he has awareness of the said dimension.

Says who?

His actions!

I don't recall Surfer doing this but regardless, he has shown far better versatility with his powers than Dr M. He can drop him with Telepathy alone.

Yh, good luck trying to use telepathy on hundreds of Doctor Manhattans at once. Silver Surfer will get overwhelmed in seconds. Also, Silver Surfer isn't more versatile than Doctor Manhattan. There are many things Surfer can't do which Doctor Manhattan can.

That's some nice fan fiction you have written there. Unfortunately, none of this will play out this way. Also for the record, Surfer hasn't been a 'slave' to galactus for a very long time now and if you really get down to it, being subservient to an eternal nigh immortal being is far better than being the bitch and weapon of the government full of normal guys. Think about that

1. The source of all the powers Silver Surfer possesses is from Galactus. Thus, he'd always be Galactus's bitch until he can develop his own powers. Iron man's powers are his own. Doctor Doom's powers are his own. Thus, neither of them have anybody in authority over their powers. Doctor Manhattan likewise has nobody in authority over his powers.
2. Being subservient to nobody is better than being subservient to an 'eternal nigh immortal being'. Doctor Manhattan isn't a slave to the government like Silver Surfer is a slave to Galactus. Galactus has full authority over all of Silver Surfer's powers and abilities. Nobody has any authority over Doctor Manhattan's powers and abilities.

Let us know when Manhattan has shown better offensive capability than blowing up a tank

Sure!

or better feats than making multiple copies of himself for bedding Laurie and working, and other simple feats which even a mid tier matter manipulator can do in their sleep.

Simple feat that Silver Surfer has never shown to do. Thus, according to the line of reasoning you're using, Silver Surfer is below a mid tier matter manipulator whilst Doctor Manhattan is at least at that level.

Surfer blows all his feats out of proportion

No! He doesn't.

and he will stomp the featless doc in 10 seconds flat.

The opposite / reverse is more likely to happen.

I am of course speaking of pre rebirth Manhattan since that was the version used when this thread was made. We still need to see something more from the current version before saying he can play with the big guys.

Pre - birth version of Doctor Manhattan absolutely curbstomps Silver Surfer with the utmost ease. Whilst the version being discussed here despite being very inexperienced should have enough abilities to beat Silver Surfer.

Surfer wins

Manhattan gets one shotted.