Doctor Manhattan (DC Comics) vs Current Beyonder

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They essentially have the same powers but one of them is more hax than the other. I say Manhattan wins because Beyonder is slow and lacks imagination. By the time Beyonder figures out something Dr.m would of already have retcon this version back to the pr classic version then back again to the current and then dispose of him. I also don’t see why Dr.M wouldn’t just erase him given beyonder scales below the DC cosmology.

Manhattan is from watchmen comics btw, not DC.

@sladeracer: watchman it's published by DC so what hell are even talking about also appeared in the DC Universe as well, specifically during the events of "Doomsday Clock."

Current beyonder weak

@mann1234: So "Doomsday Clock" is a crossover event between DC and Watchmen.

See how the writers separate the verses? Ozymandias also appeared in DC but he's not classified as a DC character. Comprende

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Current Beyonder isn't anything special, but neither is Dr Manhattan. So hard to say imo, but I'll back Beyonder for now given his intent of being the same as in Secret Wars.

making an argument for separating watchmen from dc in 2023 is mental lmaoo

OT: accidentally voted Beyonder not seeing it's current version. Manhattan stomps unless there's some new beyond i'm unaware of

my opinion = fax

ur opinion = creditless

@sladeracer: they are considered DC characters because their published by DC

Beyonder

Manhattan.

@mann1234:

Exactly. DC Publication, not DC Production. Your own source “Fandom” also agree Ozymandias and Dr.Manhattan are watchmen characters.

DC characters are those in the DCU, Ex; (Batman, Superman, Flash).

Beyonder has meta feats like tearing the actual comic book and showed narration manipulation, glorian with his powers was going to reboot the marvel cosmology infinitely until it gets better, current beyonder is still crazy op just judging by defenders beyond alone

@dami24434: I’d look into Mxyzptlk , Batmite , and Ultra from Multiversity. They are good examples of characters who can replicate the beyonder, but still scale below Dr.Manhattan.

OT:

If you ask who wins between Beyonder and Mxyzptlk it’s a bit harder to answer because the outcome is rather close. However, if you ask the same question but substitute Beyonder with Dr.Manhattan, the answer is clear. So to me this thread is essentially the same thing the answer should be clear

@sladeracer: This is not my Fandom this is the official DC Database Wiki that has list of accurate source material and Ozymandias and Dr.Manhattan are DC Characters

@djmasta: show me Mxy or batmite rebooting DC

omniverse infinitely in a canon Comic

Beyonder

Current Beyonder should be very close to PR I'd say, they've established that the current version hasn't been retconned to a Ivory King and his final feat was leaving the Marvel multiverse completely, superseding even TOAA's realm.

@djmasta: Agreed 👍 Beyonder got bested by Doom stealing his power. Manhattan has never lost to anyone, like ever lol and honestly I don't see someone like Manhattan losing to Dr. Doom when Ozy already failed against him and the entire JL and they both actually tried and had prep, Manhattan is way smarter than Beyonder and his power seems more impressive effecting the entire multiverse out of sheer curiousity. Going Manhattan here. A shread of this dude's power effected the entire DC multiverse afterwards too and was a big reason for Perpetua's defeat(creator of the entire DC Multiverse)

@great_darkness: lol what current beyonder is above pre retcon

beyonder would destroy he now has scaling to the mystery

@dami24434: sure

A) Batmite made his own comic book putting New Gods in the front cover, which is proof he changed the cosmology indefinitely.

B) Mxy's subconscious was unwriting all of existence. ( even the writer's pencil)

C) Ulta is a robot from World33 that contains every writer/reader on the planet. So Ultra is Geoff Johns, who made Doomsday Clock.

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D)Monitors live in Super dimensions that supersede world 33. Alpheus alone Reboots DC in the 6D more times than Mxy has in world funnest, and all those records are kept indefinitely in world 33.

can i see beyonder rebooting cosmologies

@arctika thanks bud.

@djmasta said:

@dami24434: sure

A) Batmite made his own comic book putting New Gods in the front cover, which is proof he changed the cosmology indefinitely.

B) Mxy's subconscious was unwriting all of existence. ( even the writer's pencil)

C) Ulta is a robot from World33 that contains every writer/reader on the planet. So Ultra is Geoff Johns, who made Doomsday Clock.

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D)Monitors live in Super dimensions that supersede world 33. Alpheus alone Reboots DC in the 6D more times than Mxy has in world funnest, and all those records are kept indefinitely in world 33.

can i see beyonder rebooting cosmologies

- Beyonder rips the book!

- Narratives/Gutter Space don't work on Beyonders, unless they allow or go along with it. Ivory Kings/Beyonders predate the Concept of Narration

- Last 2 scans are still within the confines of Marvels 7th Creation/Existence and onward(which mirrors DCs Creation/Existence)... Beyonder(s) are still FAR 'Outside' of all that and BEYOND any dimensional tiering which are usually associated with Multiversal Structures.

*Beyonders don't reboot Cosmologies... they simply outlive them while assisting the Cosmos(s) in EVOLUTION, which includes Death/Rebirth/Reboot etc..

**Also, Current Beyonder still retains all of PreR Beyonders feats, save ofc what was previously retconned... :)

OT

Interested in what DM does here...!?

@cosmic_reign: all this is very informative so thank you I appreciate the breakdown chief. If you don’t mind me asking where would you place current beyonder in regards to his classic version?

I was also under the impression that Eternity is the 7th iteration itself. Could you clarify this

You got it! Hmm...Oddly, I'd place current Beyonder ABOVE his classic self. Current Beyonder encompasses his entire self(as he recalls most of his past actions), and seems to be more aware/INTELLIGENT(still dingbat tho). His classic days, Beyonder was a knotty kid with no regard for others(lesser lifeforms) as he went thru his learning stage. IMO ofc

Yes, Eternity/Infinity are/were the 7th Iteration of Marvel Continuity. Eternity alone became the 8th after renewal... IIRC

CR dropping heat 🔥🔥🔥.

OT: I'm just here to learn. Good matchup, its close.

@sladeracer: Dude, you're back!!! Congrats on getting the account back!! 🎉🎊

@cosmoman said:

Ahh.... Come on Better Half! We know u set the Tone. 😎

What a blessing✨️ for you to make an appearance/post, even if it's just a Cameo... 💥

I may be lucky enough to be your half, but better? Nah my twin 🤜🤛, Chaos is never better than Order!~☝️

I am blessed to come back to a brother and friend who amazes me with wisdom after all this time! To be anticipated by someone of that caliber is an honor, Never change twin~~ 💜

Does Manhattan really have this level of scaling? I've only read the original run

@cosmoman: Ayee, my dawg cosmos.! Where u been bro 😎 welcome back broski

@professorrespect

they've established that the current version hasn't been retconned to a Ivory King

@professorrespect: That's awesome. Gonna check this out.

@cosmic_reign: Very interesting! With all this knowledge you’ve bestowed on us I think a confrontation between Beyonder and Mxy is still rather close.

the fact is beyonder’s feats have nearly all been replicated and he doesn’t have anything in his arsenal that give him a solid win over Imps or Monitors.

X. Marvels interpretation on Eternity seems to not have changed. And if that’s true, then he is in big trouble with Dr.Manhattan. Here’s why

Cyttorak’s crimson cosmos exists outside Eternity, so Beyonder’s feats/statements scale to what’s inside Eternity, NOT outside.

In addition, beings like Nebulos and Cyttorak are GIANTS in comparison to Eternity, and they are just 2 examples of what’s outside.

So in conclusion, we have Beyonder who was affecting The Marvel Multiverse (Eternity) VS Dr.M who rebooted all DC. How is this close

@djmasta:

I can only speak of Pre-Retcon Beyonder since that is who I am familiar with, but pre-Retcon Beyonder was explicitly a being outside of the Marvel totality. He was the TOAA of his own multiverse/creation, and always existed separate from and unrelated to the rest of Marvel. The Beyonder Realm, his creation which he was also the manifestation of, was so massive that the entire Marvel totality was described as "a droplet of water" in comparison to the Beyonder Realm which was an "ocean".

When he entered the multiverse, the abstract beings such as LT and Eternity begged him not to cause any harm even though he was and continued to do so. They never laid a finger on him once. In the Beyonder's mind, guys like LT and Eternity were so lowly that he considered them to be "amoeba"-tier fodder in comparison to himself.

Eventually the cosmic beings convinced Molecule Man to confront the Beyonder, who at the time was the second strongest being in the multiverse, and easily millions of times more powerful than the likes of LT, was unable to do anything, and described the power gap between the Beyonder and himself as big as the power gap between himself and Captain America.

Beyonder was stated to have many millions of times more power than all the power in the multiverse combined, and he created a big bang that was so powerful that it encompassed the whole Beyonder Realm and made a new creation, the same Beyonder Realm that dwarfed the rest of Marvel.

I've yet to come across any character in any story since that was so ridiculously overpowered. Not even Thanos and his many godhoods hold a candle to this.

@hulksmashtoaa:

Appreciate the breakdown chief. But what Beyonder invaded was the 616 Universe, he would only scale above what's within. Moreover how do you account for Dr.Strange posing a threat to someone whose much stronger than Eternity

Dr.strange is empowered by forces from outside.

And why is that? It's never implied. If anything, it's below, given the multiverse isn't insignificant to it like before.

@djmasta said:

Appreciate the breakdown chief. But what Beyonder invaded was the 616 Universe, he would only scale above what's within. Moreover how do you account for Dr.Strange posing a threat to someone whose much stronger than Eternity

Dr.strange is empowered by forces from outside.

Sry my Good Dude... I accidentally deleted my reply to your tag just b4 posting it ;/... so I'll get back to it...

Regarding the above scan:

Beyonder ALLOWED Strange to show him how emotions work(IIRC). PreR Beyonder had NO regard for anything except his own amusement while learning (which were things like Erasing Prime Abstracts, threatening to destroy the Multiverse just too see what would happen, etc). I think Beyonder/Strange encounter was after Boom Boom started to reject B, which he didn't understand why....Lol

Man, I may need to refresh on some of these events....

@great_darkness:

It is as Cosmic Reign says.

The point of the whole story is that Beyonder explicitly turns himself into a human flesh form that is capable of experiencing all of the joys and sorrows that come with being a human. In this form he can bleed, get drunk, be emotional, etc. It is a self-imposed handicap so he can learn.

The Beyonder's true form is an infinite dimensional creation that dwarfs the rest of totality.

Beyonder

PR Beyonder

Yeah Beyonder would literally see Dr like he did LT and the other abstracts Lesser form of life. Dr Manhattan no matter how much you try to scale him isn't touching Beyonder who ascended To TOAA and was TOAA. Not close really

No problem bud always appreciate the response ^_^ tho i may have to reread it aswell!

OT: I know Beyonder was just messing around to understand humans better and is more than capable of wiping out the abstracts within Eternity.

My point here is that Dr.Strange who is Empowered by Extra Dimensional Forces could rid Beyonder Forever so I can't see him scaling over EVERYTHING that's Outside Eternity. Evidence is needed

Correct me if im wrong, but, Beyoner in my scan had access to all his powers whenever.

Haha know who else ascended to Toaa, Sise-Neg! A Dr.Strange foe with powers similar to Dr.Manhattan

On a real note you might want to reanalyze ur argument because Toaa is not above the Writers and never was and got beat by less. (Ex:AG Thanos)

Dr.Manhattan>Writers>DC Universe.

Both ways G ;)

Yes! But not just within Eternity...

Extra-Ds are outside 616 but still within Multi-E(7th Existence). Nah... maybe combined they can likely banish B temp, but not 4ever...

This is how IK/Beyonder(s) view the entirety of every Marvel Cosmos. They are completely outside of it, and all/any dimensions related to the 7th and onward. Eternity isn't even pictured bc he happened bout 4 Creations/Cycles later(after the 3rd)...

Only First Firmament(with Celestials ;)) and the House of Ideas are "Outside" the Beyond(remnants of the 2nd) IMO with support

Sise-Neg rebooted Prime 616 Universe.

... Just to share my views and trade Info witcha! 😎

Sure that's fine if referring to PRB, but that's unrelated to current Beyonder being above PRB, plus he's definitely not above the rest of Marvel at this point. Ewing made that pretty clear.

If we want to argue on this basis, the Beyonder made Stan Lee, Jim Shooter, and Al Milgrom bow down to him.

Beyonder also fucked with Kurt Busiek (another writer), Jim Salicrup (the editor), and other Marvel staff at their building.

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