Barry can think up an infinite number of situations to counter with the speed mind quite easily in 12 hours.
Doom probably still wins, though. He's got a long history of pulling astronomic plot devices out of his hat.
I know that, but it's not like he really does things with prep time in the sense of actually improving himself like most preppers do .... he can think of infinite situations to counter the situation he's in within 12 hours....but then he wouldn't see that 1 out of 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of Doom pulling some bullsh*t plot device out of his ass .... he doesn't do prep the way most preppers do cus he doesn't have to i know, but in this case...unless he feels like f*ckin up the time stream by going in the speed force and traveling backwards to do something just as bullsh*tty......his prep is kinds useless since Doom always wins with prep.
Doom, handily. The problem with people that can think at super-speed is that they still have to make a choice. Barry can calculate every possible outcome...but he still has to pick a course of action. He may think faster, but that doesn't make him smarter. I can't remember what issue, but there's a scene from a Justice League comic that has Batman and Flash trying to figure out a numerical combination, and Batman figures it out first. While Wally was using trial-and-error, Bruce's cognitive process was focused on logic and efficiency. Prep isn't a factor against Doom, because Doom is as exponentially smarter to Barry as Barry is fast to Doom. But if I've learned anything from comics, it's that brains always wins, and six hours of prep is too much to give to a character that made a device to steal the Beyonder's power in a matter of minutes.
Doom, handily. The problem with people that can think at super-speed is that they still have to make a choice. Barry can calculate every possible outcome...but he still has to pick a course of action. He may think faster, but that doesn't make him smarter. I can't remember what issue, but there's a scene from a Justice League comic that has Batman and Flash trying to figure out a numerical combination, and Batman figures it out first. While Wally was using trial-and-error, Bruce's cognitive process was focused on logic and efficiency. Prep isn't a factor against Doom, because Doom is as exponentially smarter to Barry as Barry is fast to Doom. But if I've learned anything from comics, it's that brains always wins, and six hours of prep is too much to give to a character that made a device to steal the Beyonder's power in a matter of minutes.
That was A: A different Flash B: From the cartoon and C: They were trapped by an alternate universe Batman and Batman only knew the code because the alternate Batman uses the same codes he does.
Unless there's another situation where Batman intuitively figures out number combination, but that sounds exactly like the cartoon scene.
30 people say Doom wins and not a one says why or how.
I hate prep battles.
I'll help...with no prep he has things built into his armor that stop time and send people 2 seconds in the past, has forcefields Flash can't break and his armor can take a lot of punishment and releases over 500,000 MV of electricity when you touch it should he feel like it. He also has an anti-matter gun, brain scrambler and more. This is without prep. Oh and his armor absorbs all type of energy, so absorbing the Speedforce from Flash is very, very possible.
Doom feels like the only person naturally capable of stealing energy from the sources, regardless of who/what it is. Since it's New-52 Barry I'm not sure what he could do. Dooms magic is formidable and with prep he'd probably utilize his vibration gun, which essentially works like the speed steal. If Dooms forcefields can withhold New 52 Barry beating on them, then it's pretty easily manageable to use the vibration gun...if he could hit him. He'd probably first do some protection spell, then assume Barry would blitz, then use a gravity weapon, slowing Barry down quite a bit, then managing some method of the vibration bomb stealing Barry's speed. Otherwise it's a stalemate.
He amps his shields via magic, starts creating various magical traps around the battle field he turns invisible via cloaking device or magic again and waits for Barry to turn up before time stopping via magic or machine and kicks his red ass.
@bullpr: @linkxv1: it's new 52 Barry, no speed steal, no feats even close to West's reaction time and overall speed. I'm a Doom fan and I acknowledge its very much West > Doom > Allen. IMO
@bullpr: @linkxv1: it's new 52 Barry, no speed steal, no feats even close to West's reaction time and overall speed. I'm a Doom fan and I acknowledge its very much West > Doom > Allen. IMO
Ouf. I was afraid that the CV has lost his soul!
:-)
Seriously, you would give the win to a Flash (any one of them) against Domm with prep?
That's you're right of course.
But the list of Doom's victims in these conditions is impressive.
I even remember Doom able to take control of Earth with prep (then, bored to death, he gave it up).
One day I will understand how the Flash (in my mind a minor, MINOR, character) took that much importance these last decades.
(Speed force: ok, a source of energy like any other source of energy in the comics. Going back to the past: the different paradoxes linked to it make this feat a useless one during any battle.
Etc...
But I'm not going to debate this. Probably a problem of generation.)
@bullpr: I know more about Doom than any character. He has no defense for the speed steal. It's that simple. The only argument would be the Ovoid mind transfer and it requires extreme concentration. Wally's not had a problem vibrating his molecules through forcefields. Barry, is no Wally. Doom wins here. But IMO he loses to West. You're entitled to you're opinion as well! It's not worth debating over since he's not in this battle.
@bullpr: I know more about Doom than any character. He has no defense for the speed steal. It's that simple. The only argument would be the Ovoid mind transfer and it requires extreme concentration. Wally's not had a problem vibrating his molecules through forcefields. Barry, is no Wally. Doom wins here. But IMO he loses to West. You're entitled to you're opinion as well! It's not worth debating over since he's not in this battle.
Yep. One day I'll have the energy to get down in the arena and debate about this "speed steal" thing. But it will have to be the adequate debate!
Back to topic: do you remember this arc where Wonder-man was the last one on Earth to resist to Doom?
@bullpr: haha I hear that and I don't recall. I remember Doom enhancing Purple Man, then resisting his power. I remember him resisting all of Apocalpyses mind control, when he did so to Marvel earth.
@supermanwithatan01: Yes, he used Purple Man as a device. WM was in a box so IM could analyze his ionic based energy. He stayed roughly a month in this box, and when he came out, Doom was ruling Earth.
But I have never seen any allusion to that later, so I was wandering if it was on Earth 616 or not?
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