DMS Kakashi, Obito vs Ichigo, Aizen

Kakashi neg-diffs the verse.

@undre said:

@lexa59: @manimalman: wrong they are consistently shown to bypass physical objects

Gallery

OT soul crush

That's why I said "almost". Hollows generally have more soul fuckery. Anyways, all of the wounds acidwire gave orihime and tatsuki were just normal wounds, they healed liked, normal didn't leave any soul wounds etc.

Aizen partial vaping that dude with his reiatsu isn't bypassing durability or leaving spiritual wounds or anything, its just partially vaping some guy who's massively weaker than him.

Urahara just used a gokkon tekko to push out ichigo's soul.

@areneacaulem: "The scan I posted says it's a form of chakra lol. Your just in denial. no where does it say it isn't chakra just a more powerful chakra. I know the difference between the 2 but you clearly don't understand that in order to use jutsu, including senjutsu, that the "

Man.... I still can't understand what's so hard to get

It is not chakra which is present in body dude. First you have to gather natural energy and mix it with chakra then senjutsu chakra is formed. Natural energy is not something present inside person like chakra it is in surrounding and none of the bleach characters can use it

And if you think this then post scans of ichigo and aizen using natural energy

@areneacaulem: god damm idk what to say at this point....

It is not chakra which is present inside body. You have to create senjutsu chakra by mixing natural energy and if you think this then show ichigo and aizen using natural energy

@areneacaulem: I am not saying he can't be damaged. He can be KOed by physical attacks

@areneacaulem:

As I have already written, Senjutsu is a mixture of two different energies that the characters from Bleach do not have, as a result of which they can easily disintegrate to the molecular or even atomic level due to Gudodama, because they do not have natural energies that they can mix with their own to get something similar to Senjutsu. Based on your logic, Chakra for you = Reiatsu, but where is something about Senjutsu indicated here? Or is it for such "gifted" as you, I need to point out that this is an Ordinary Chakra = Reiatsu, because they are very similar in themselves.

Chakra - is a mixture of spiritual and physical energy

Reiatsu - is spiritual energy.

That's why they are equalized, but you still can't figure it out.

Obito isn't anywhere near LS Nor is he anywhere Near the AP of Bleach team.Obito is literally a non-factor with the only threat being Kakashi and he still loses.

Ichigo, with his Getsuga Tenshou, maximum can tear off the arm of a weakling who herself hit the attack.

Obito, who casually reacted to Minato KM2 + Hiraishin and tore off his arm, also instantly attached a Gudodama to him. While this Ichigo can't even react to weaklings, even Orihime's reaction speed is higher than his. Jerking off crosses all boundaries.

These arguments are just wow.

OT: Team because of better stats.

@areneacaulem: yeah I am not saying he cs cannot be damaged. Aizen can speed blitz and knock him out but any attack that is mix with reiatsu/chakra won't work that's all I am saying

@number3561: the barrier is not weak infact it stopped yhwachs black goo finger beam. The only reason some of the goo got through was because of the holes aizen and the mimihagi put in it. Also resistance is resistance does not matter it's overpowered or not. Do you believe juubito can null universal level jutsu? Bleach characters can overpower hax. narutos characters can't.

So because aizen destroyed debunk it being immune to spirit energy?That just gives aizen resistance plain and simple Thats never stated to be case your just adding head cannon. Even in the databooks it says it's designed to stop spirit energy.

Why does ichigo being hit by walls matter? I said they can do both phase through matter and destroy it. A random hollow literally soul ripped orhime without touching her physical body. Clearly they can make them selves both intangible and tangible when they want.

Cause it has a soul mark it must be special is your own fan theory. We also see random hollows bypass plps physical bodies like when orhime got soul ripped.

Kage with no 6 paths chakra can hurt plp like momo and kinshki using justu even tho they have ten tails power by your logic they should be immune.

Soul crush working only working on fodder does not mean it won't juubito. I can say obitos power null only worked on plp weaker than him so it won't work on ichigo and aizen using your logic

@areneacaulem: Bro again i am saying it is not chakra which is already there in the body, you have to make this senjutsu chakra by mixing natural energy and you can create senjutsu chakra anytime you want like this and you have to first learn to sense natural energy and gather it and the mix it with your chakra like this

And wait

Here it is clearly said you need natural energy and chakra

Ichigo and aizen can use chakra which is mixture of spiritual and physical energy not natural energy

@areneacaulem: wait...Are you saying cuz energies are equal so anyone can use tailed beast chakra or SOSP chakra?

@areneacaulem: Brooooooooo it is not normal chakra, you have to create senjutsu chakra. It is not present inside the body and if it was normal chakra then why tobirama and sasuke didn't used it?

@areneacaulem: You're an idiot? You have been written many times that Senjutsu is a mixture of two different energies.

Basic Chakra, Tailed Beast Chakra, Negative chakra, Dark Chakra, Six Path Chakra - These are special versions of the chakra, but not a mixture of two different energies together, since natural energies are not chakra, which has already been explained to you 1000 times.

Its chakra but even if energy is equal then too any character from different verse can only use normal chakra

Especially for you.

@undre:

the barrier is not weak infact it stopped yhwachs black goo finger beam. The only reason some of the goo got through was because of the holes aizen and the mimihagi put in it. Also resistance is resistance does not matter it's overpowered or not.

It didn't stop anything. Yhwach said he was intentionally "putting a lid on Seireitei" before doing just that. If he actually wanted to destroy the barrier he could've done it a heartbeat. Why are you downplaying Yhwach?

The Shakonmaku's ability to null energy was overpowered by a regular meteor and the combined energy of weak characters from the beginning of Soul Society. I don't know why you think me or anyone else should find it impressive in terms of "power null."

Do you believe juubito can null universal level jutsu?

What universal jutsu? If you're asking whether TSOs null ninjutsu and chakra, that's its ability.

So because aizen destroyed debunk it being immune to spirit energy?

What a silly question. "Does a glass breaking debunk the glass being unbreakable?" The answer is yes. There's no resistance here, no special attributes. Aizen's reiatsu was simply beyond anything anyone in the Soul Society could conceive, and it was beyond anything Kototsu had ever withstood.

Why does ichigo being hit by walls matter?

"Why does Ichigo being involuntarily smashed through a regular wall matter when I'm trying to claim he's literally intangible?" Feel free to sit on that one for a while.

I said they can do both phase through matter and destroy it.

It's not about what you said. Their feats and Rukia's explanation show that non-fodder souls generally don't have intangibility. Your example of the Hollow pushing Orihime's soul out of her body is irrelevant, because no one argued that Hollows can't interact with souls.

Cause it has a soul mark it must be special is your own fan theory.

Ah yes, the fan theory about the soul mark on Urahara's cane that Ichigo needs to enter soul form. The same fake mark that exists on Rukia's glove which is the only other thing Ichigo uses to enter soul form. Wait... that actually exists. Get real.

Kage with no 6 paths chakra can hurt plp like momo and kinshki using justu even tho they have ten tails power by your logic they should be immune.

Not even sure how this connects to anything I said. Grasping at straws?

Soul crush working only working on fodder does not mean it won't juubito.

It means it works on fodder, and fails against anyone remotely relevant, or even against weaker opponents who aren't weak enough. Remind me when Orihime was crushed in Yhwach's presence? Remind me when Hanataro was crushed in Byakuya's? Remind me when Uryu was crushed in SE Ulquorria's? Oh wait...

I can say obitos power null only worked on plp weaker than him so it won't work on ichigo and aizen using your logic

No problem, show me Obito's TSOs failing to null regular chakra due to the chakra's power being too high, and I'll be onboard.

@undre: Kages were only able to hurt kinshiki bcs of PIS

Equal energies for chakra and reiastu is complicated. Reiastu works a lot different then chakra.

Reiastu can null any hax of someone weaker,While chakra doesn't. Plus things like soul crush ect.

@areneacaulem said:

@lexa59 said:

@areneacaulem said:

Energy equalized must be rocket science to narutostans.

Especially for you.

Yea, change it. lol. had to edit it, too bad naruto team still loses.

Just don't cry.

@number3561: seems to me like your just wanking obito. He has not shown to resist universal levels of chakra/justu. Their for you can not assume he unless you have feats.

Just cause soul crush has only been shown on weaker plp does not give obito and dms kakashi a pass. Ichigo and azien are far stronger then them.

I brought up momoshiki and kinshki cause they have 6 paths chakra from eating god fruits. Yet still get harmed by regular justu

There is a sense, only for people with brains, but unfortunately you are an exception, so I will remember this for the future.

@areneacaulem:

@areneacaulem:.

Like an argument could of been made if it was naruto and sasuke but kakashi and obito aren't anywhere near them 2. Kakashi has FTL showings but that's about it, And obito clearly doesn't compare to other god tier. He doesn't have any LS showing nor does he have any AP scaling above country, All he has is hax which is pointless if he's a statue.

Ichigo, with his Getsuga Tenshou, maximum can tear off the arm of a weakling who herself hit the attack.

Obito, who casually reacted to Minato KM2 + Hiraishin and tore off his arm, also instantly attached a Gudodama to him. While this Ichigo can't even react to weaklings, even Orihime's reaction speed is higher than his. Jerking off crosses all boundaries.

@areneacaulem:

Even 4 Mega Bijuudama filled with Senjutsu didn't do anything Gudodama Obito.

The fact that attacks of this level will not do anything against Obito.

@undre:

seems to me like your just wanking obito.

Seems to me like you're projecting. No one said anything about universal jutsu but you. I only pointed out that TSOs nullify chakra, and therefore reiatsu in this match-up.

Just cause soul crush has only been shown on weaker plp does not give obito and dms kakashi a pass.

Often it doesn't even work on weaker people, which my three examples pointed out. And obviously I don't agree that Ichigo or Aizen are "far stronger" (though I gave them the advantage), so this isn't a convincing argument.

I brought up momoshiki and kinshki cause they have 6 paths chakra from eating god fruits. Yet still get harmed by regular justu

That shouldn't be surprising. Six Paths chakra doesn't give you immunity to regular jutsu, nor are these two even confirmed to have Six Paths chakra as far as I know.

Ichigo's feats of speed can only impress Orihime.

So far, Obito has been defeating really high-speed characters, even those using the teleporter.

No, rather, I am stating a fact.

Here are a few examples from early in the series

They were all humans injured by hollows without any kind of permanent soul wounds or durability negation like people often argue.

There's also the whole fullbring arc where the fullbringers who are living humans fight shinigami and nowhere do we see direct soul attacks, durability negation or permanent wounds.

Basically, if shinigami(or other spirit) punched a human in the face, they'd just cause a normal nosebleed and not much else.

There are definitely some wilder abilities like how hollows can push souls out of people though but it doesn't seem universal to all spirits.

Fucking lol

@lexa59 said:

@areneacaulem:

@areneacaulem:.

Like an argument could of been made if it was naruto and sasuke but kakashi and obito aren't anywhere near them 2. Kakashi has FTL showings but that's about it, And obito clearly doesn't compare to other god tier. He doesn't have any LS showing nor does he have any AP scaling above country, All he has is hax which is pointless if he's a statue.

Ichigo, with his Getsuga Tenshou, maximum can tear off the arm of a weakling who herself hit the attack.

Obito, who casually reacted to Minato KM2 + Hiraishin and tore off his arm, also instantly attached a Gudodama to him. While this Ichigo can't even react to weaklings, even Orihime's reaction speed is higher than his. Jerking off crosses all boundaries.

Got to love the smell of downplaying in the morning

Yikes, someones getting their jimmies rustled on their own thread.

I was going to say Juubito gets one shotted but not so sure anymore since OP gave him Kamui.