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#1 Posted by randomcharachter (437 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

VS

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Rules

Morals On

Part 3 Dio

Current Luffy

Win by any means

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#2 Posted by kyrees (13284 posts) - - Show Bio

Time, stop!

-you know the rest.

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#3 Edited by BlackKaizer (524 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a complete mismatch, plz close the topic.....

Luffy is not ftl

Cannot harm stands

Nor can he counter his time stop at all

Spite thread

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#4 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackkaizer: Would his Conqueror's Haki make any kind of difference? Just started getting into OP.

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#5 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio easily

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#6 Edited by colliderz (4756 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a complete mismatch, plz close the topic.....

Luffy is not ftl

Cannot harm stands

Nor can he counter his time stop at all

Spite thread

  1. Luffy is FTL is you are buying how Dio can be FTL
  2. But he can still harm Dio
  3. It doesn't matter if he has a counter against time stop, it doesn't lasts forever and Dio can't do anything to hurt Luffy at all during that time
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#7 Posted by Redzkz (3658 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz:

Luffy is FTL is you are buying how Dio can be FTL

Dio's stand is FTL if you like it or not.

Dio can't do anything to hurt Luffy at all during that time

Stand can phase into Luffy brain and ruin it. Although he is made of rubber... Nah, that won't work. Freeze him during timestop. Drop a single drop of blood into Luffy's mouth and make him his servant. One of these should win the day for Dio.

Online
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#8 Edited by Life_Without_Progress (20771 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio freezes time and MUDA MUDA MUDAs Luffy into oblivion with The World.

Online
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#9 Posted by JwwProd (20584 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio FTW!

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#10 Posted by colliderz (4756 posts) - - Show Bio

@redzkz:

Dio's stand is FTL if you like it or not.

What I meant is I don't think Dio is FTL due to the inconsistency but Luffy too has FTL feat which again I see inconsistent so both characters are either FTL or not depending on the point of view

Stand can phase into Luffy brain and ruin it. Although he is made of rubber... Nah, that won't work. Freeze him during timestop. Drop a single drop of blood into Luffy's mouth and make him his servant. One of these should win the day for Dio.

Out of character strategies, we all know Dio goes for a punch-out when he stops time during combat which won't bother Luffy at all

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#11 Edited by loumast (1024 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: What FTL feats does Luffy have? and if we're talking about in character strategies, Dio seemed to be pretty fond of cutlery...

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#12 Posted by Simon_the_digger (6848 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Edited by colliderz (4756 posts) - - Show Bio

@loumast said:

@colliderz: What FTL feats does Luffy have? and if we're talking about in character strategies, Dio seemed to be pretty fond of cutlery...

Dodging a Pacifista laser after its been fired and Dio's little knives won't do anything to Luffy

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#14 Posted by Sy8000 (33977 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio should stomp from what I know.

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#15 Posted by thatguywithheadphones (19859 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio stomps.

Tha WARDO an all that jazz.

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#16 Posted by loumast (1024 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: Haki, and on the contrary. Frozen in time Luffy would have no defense unless he had coated his entire body in armament haki before Dio stopped time. And that is just something Luffy doesn't do. Literally. I don't think there has beena time when his whole body was coated in it.

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#17 Edited by lettsplay10 (20589 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio

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#18 Edited by colliderz (4756 posts) - - Show Bio

@loumast said:

@colliderz: Haki, and on the contrary. Frozen in time Luffy would have no defense unless he had coated his entire body in armament haki before Dio stopped time. And that is just something Luffy doesn't do. Literally. I don't think there has beena time when his whole body was coated in it.

Haki?I never mentioned Haki but do you really think Luffy needs Haki to handle a few petty knives?Even East Blue Luffy was durable enough to tank Django's circle cutter head onand yet was able to stop it.That same cutter which was chopping down 8-10 trees in one throw.Fast forward to Water 7, Luffy tanked a Rankyaku from Lucci which let alone decaping Luffy wasn't even enough to make a deep enough cut on Luffy's body.Lucci seconds later destroyed the entire mansion they were in with that same move.

Luffy doesn't needs Haki against a bunch of kitchen knives

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#19 Posted by loumast (1024 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: He didn't tank jango's blade, he caught it... with his teeth... like a doggy. References aside, my mention of haki was explaining Luffy's "FTL" feat. He didn't doge after he saw them fire, he was able to sense them with haki. Still impressive, not FTL though. I can't argue the Rankyaku, but the Shigan were punching through Luffy just fine. I mean Luffy gets cut plenty. Same arc, water 7, he was getting cut up by Usopp's shuriken.

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#20 Posted by MudaMudaMuda (5354 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio gets himself a new minion.

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#21 Edited by BeaconofStrength (12485 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio stomps.

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#22 Posted by Darling_Luna (12918 posts) - - Show Bio

Dioz

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#23 Posted by Nelomaxwell (14122 posts) - - Show Bio

D money freezes time and stabs the rubber man in is heart. Unless he jobs.

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#24 Posted by BlackKaizer (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz:

What inconsistencys? Luffy is notorious for being vulnerable to slash/piecing attacks.

One waruldo to realize his physical attacks aren't that effective and another to to his a bladed weapon and finish him.

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#25 Edited by colliderz (4756 posts) - - Show Bio

@loumast:

He didn't tank jango's blade, he caught it... with his teeth...

I think you are remembering the wrong instance as that was against Buggy.Here is the Jango feat

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References aside, my mention of haki was explaining Luffy's "FTL" feat. He didn't doge after he saw them fire, he was able to sense them with haki. Still impressive, not FTL though.

Well there is no instance that suggests Luffy was using Observation Haki also anyway if its needed I can argue how both are actually inconsistent

I can't argue the Rankyaku, but the Shigan were punching through Luffy just fine. I mean Luffy gets cut plenty. Same arc, water 7,

Shigan was potency based attack.Rankyaku was a leg slash which had AoE over potency

he was getting cut up by Usopp's shuriken.

The entirety of that fight was PIS like Usopp being durable enough to absorb a punch from Luffy

@blackkaizer said:

@colliderz:

What inconsistencys? Luffy is notorious for being vulnerable to slash/piecing attacks.

One waruldo to realize his physical attacks aren't that effective and another to to his a bladed weapon and finish him.

Already addressed to piercing damage, the attacks that cut but failed to decap or fully cut Luffy are not even comparable to the mere kitchen knives Dio was throwing.Also I said inconsistent for speed

One warudo is all that will happen since he will be getting one shotted the second Luffy gains his mobility back

Just a side note, Dio doesn't even carries knives or any others objects for slashing damage, he just picked them from a nearby store during his fight with Jotaro

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#26 Posted by Mee09 (4792 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio stomps

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#27 Edited by SonDeathEater (1140 posts) - - Show Bio
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Jango

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#28 Posted by passingthrough545 (1177 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio stomps, time freeze, blood minion thing, freezing Luffy's blood and his space ripper sstinger eyes

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#29 Edited by BeaconofStrength (12485 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: How is Dio's speed inconsistent? Every time a character has dodged a laser, it's been said and confirmed to be actual light, not just a generic laser. Even the data books go as far to say that stands like Star Platinum are FTL. And remember, Star Platinum was moving so fast that Joseph, a character with light speed reactions, couldn't even perceive him. It isn't inconsistent

JoJo characters are just notoriously fast from part 2 and onwards.

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#30 Posted by Mee09 (4792 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by BeaconofStrength (12485 posts) - - Show Bio

@mee09: He told me he has read up to part 3.

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#32 Edited by JuzaCloud (2951 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Dio still have the freezing powers like at the end of the first saga? freezes luffy and shatters him to pieces.

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#33 Posted by Undead_Ban (224 posts) - - Show Bio

Wtf luffy ftl speed, he can dodge laser Pacifista because observe haki and I really doubt laser Pacifista is light speed

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#34 Posted by colliderz (4756 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: How is Dio's speed inconsistent? Every time a character has dodged a laser, it's been said and confirmed to be actual light, not just a generic laser. Even the data books go as far to say that stands like Star Platinum are FTL. And remember, Star Platinum was moving so fast that Joseph, a character with light speed reactions, couldn't even perceive him. It isn't inconsistent

JoJo characters are just notoriously fast from part 2 and onwards.

First conformation of the attack doesn't means anything, Kuma's air canon were also stated to be light speed which Zoro was able dance around or dodging Pacifista lasers for Luffy since its been stated those lasers were remodeled after Kizaru's DF which is the Logia type of light element.Quantity doesn't proves anything as not just Jojo or One Piece but many other manga like Naruto, Bleach or even Dragon Ball when the character were mid tier level had several light speed feats but nobody buys them here on battle forums.Databooks are one of the most infamous aspects of manga debates notorious for the ridiculous hyperbole they have.Naruto is the prime example of this as the biggest credit for Vine having threads like Itachi vs Galactus goes to them.

Anyway the examples aside the main reasons why a speed feat is inconsistent are

  • They don't make up with the story nor the setting
  • There are no mid level feats that you can correlate (their speed feats are either supersonic or FTL, Mach 1-5 and Mach 880991 is a pretty big gap)
  • Given the feats that can be achieved with light speed does not correlates to the character

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#35 Edited by BeaconofStrength (12485 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz:The hyperbole argument falls apart when JoJo characters have shown on numerous occasions to be able to react to light speeds along with being confirmed by Araki. Not to mention Stands with an A in speed is FTL. Hell, some Stands with B in speed have been shown to be FTL.

  • How do they not make up with the story? They're only peak human in travel speed, but reaction and combat they're much faster; feats and the data book have literally confirmed that. And I don't want you going on how they don't fit with the story and setting, considering you're only on part 3. Spoiler: Get ready to see plenty of Stands reality warping, universal powers, infinite speed, and other OP stands.
  • They don't need mid level feats if they've been proven to be FTL and fight other FTL characters on occasion. They have plenty of hypersonic feats, but they have a plethora of light speed feats, too.
  • Dio fought, matched out-sped, and manhandled 3 blood lusted characters that have FTL reflexes, and 1 that had the concrete data book confirming that it's always been FTL.

Two of your points don't even try to prove they're inconsistencies, it's just you saying "I don't think it fits and I don't like it, so it doesn't count!".

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#36 Edited by thatguywithheadphones (19859 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz:Basically what you're saying is that "if my favorite series is inconsistent with its speed, everyone else, despite having proof, is inconsistent as well".

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#37 Posted by colliderz (4756 posts) - - Show Bio

@beaconofstrength:

The hyperbole argument falls apart when JoJo characters have shown on numerous occasions to be able to react to light speeds along with being confirmed by Araki.

How its not hyperbole?I have already explain multiple instances does not justifies the feat and the databook entries are the most notorious parts of manga debates and houses most of the hyperboles

Explain me how those statements or light speed instances being any more credible then these

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Not to mention Stands with an A in speed is FTL. Hell, some Stands with B in speed have been shown to be FTL.

The inconsistency of those rankings even rival those of Dragon Ball PLs as an example you have Jolyne said she can crush a coin at most even though Stone Free is ranked as an A class in strength.Does that sounds legit when you have Star Platinum's diamond shattering punches on the same level?Or The World, stated and shown as an short ranged stand, has an A-Rank in range whereas Echoes Act 1, which has been noted at having a large range of several meters at least, is ranked B.This alone shows how much consistency Araki puts in his manga.

  • How do they not make up with the story? They're only peak human in travel speed, but reaction and combat they're much faster; feats and the data book have literally confirmed that. And I don't want you going on how they don't fit with the story and setting, considering you're only on part 3. Spoiler: Get ready to see plenty of Stands reality warping, universal powers, infinite speed, and other OP stands.

How does that even make sense?Saying someone has peak human traveling speed but FTL combat speed is ridiculous.Its like saying just because someone can lift a mountain does not justifies they can break a rock because striking strength =/= lifting strength.Combat speed and traveling speed are two different things but in the end they both are a sub-category of speed and must correlate to an extend.

  • They don't need mid level feats if they've been proven to be FTL and fight other FTL characters on occasion. They have plenty of hypersonic feats, but they have a plethora of light speed feats, too.

If you think FTL is not a hyperbole or inconsistent then show me some relativistic speed feats to strengthen your argument.Standalone FTL feats despite being occurred multiple times is not a new thing manga debates, many series have several instances of FTL speed but nobody buys them here because it doesn't makes sense when you check all the feats in general.(Ex:Naruto, Bleach)

  • Dio fought, matched out-sped, and manhandled 3 blood lusted characters that have FTL reflexes, and 1 that had the concrete data book confirming that it's always been FTL.

Scaling a hyperbole to 3 other people to justify the initial hyperbole doesn't proves anything

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#38 Edited by BeaconofStrength (12485 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: HERE WE GO.

How its not hyperbole?I have already explain multiple instances does not justifies the feat and the databook entries are the most notorious parts of manga debates and houses most of the hyperboles

Explain me how those statements or light speed instances being any more credible then these

Do you even know what hyperbole means? I wouldn't take the data book seriously if it didn't have the feats to match up, but plenty of JoJo have on panel showings of dodging confirmed light-speed attacks. Right now you're treating it as a buzzword in hopes to strengthen your argument. Also, I'm not even using solely data books, I'm using feats that completely correlate with what the data book said. Also, how One Piece treats their feats and hyperbole does not equal how JJBA handles it; two completely different writers. Nice try, though.

The inconsistency of those rankings even rival those of Dragon Ball PLs as an example you have Jolyne said she can crush a coin at most even though Stone Free is ranked as an A class in strength.Does that sounds legit when you have Star Platinum's diamond shattering punches on the same level?Or The World, stated and shown as an short ranged stand, has an A-Rank in range whereas Echoes Act 1, which has been noted at having a large range of several meters at least, is ranked B.This alone shows how much consistency Araki puts in his manga.

Nice try using a feat when Jolyne first got her stand and was in string form; later on Stone Free was hitting with a force that rivaled a small, but extremely fast meteor; it completely legit and comparable to Star Platinum. The World never had a class A in range, I'm not even sure where you pulled that one out from. And you do realize Stand's have the potential to increase their stats over time, right? That was the whole point of development potential. This shows how little you know about JoJo, lol.

How does that even make sense?Saying someone has peak human traveling speed but FTL combat speed is ridiculous.Its like saying just because someone can lift a mountain does not justifies they can break a rock because striking strength =/= lifting strength.Combat speed and traveling speed are two different things but in the end they both are a sub-category of speed and must correlate to an extend.

How is it ridiculous? Stands are incredibly fast and don't reflect on the user's travel speed, but still have to operate within the Stand user's range.. It's already been proven multiple times that JoJo characters able to react to light speed attacks. It's literally that simple, you're just trying way to hard to over complicate it and make it look worse. The last half of that section doesn't even make sense.

If you think FTL is not a hyperbole or inconsistent then show me some relativistic speed feats to strengthen your argument.Standalone FTL feats despite being occurred multiple times is not a new thing manga debates, many series have several instances of FTL speed but nobody buys them here because it doesn't makes sense when you check all the feats in general.(Ex:Naruto, Bleach)

You literally just said, "show me some feats proving that JoJo characters are FTL, but don't show me the feats that actually show that they're FTL, because that would make my argument fall apaprt!". And guess what, Bleach and Naruto aren't JoJo, so that doesn't matter either. Stop trying to bunch every manga together in one pile.

Scaling a hyperbole to 3 other people to justify the initial hyperbole doesn't proves anything

Having the feats and data book confirmation that correlate proving they're FTL isn't a hyperbole; stop using that word incorrectly. This literally changes nothing; your argument still falls flat on this face.

Dio still turns Luffy into one of his minions by the end of their fight.

@thatguywithheadphones said:

@colliderz:Basically what you're saying is that "if my favorite series is inconsistent with its speed, everyone else, despite having proof, is inconsistent as well".

It's funny because that's all he can say at this point.

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#39 Posted by I_Am_Lightning (3496 posts) - - Show Bio

MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA!!

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#40 Posted by NWgzsjUwhM96Y2 (3059 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Edited by ZaCrimsonWarudo (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2: Ever heard of 'Golden Experience Reqiuem' or 'Made in Heaven"?

Then there's even more op non canon with 'heaven ascension Dio' and one of the most broken characters ever made 'Novel Kars' who gets ALL stands in their Requiem mode and ultimate form (like when Kars could use ultimate hamon)

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#42 Posted by Grinningf0x (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

In character DIO loses

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#43 Edited by AlexTheBoss (13769 posts) - - Show Bio

Dio is massively overhyped. Even pre timeskip Luffy is far stronger than him. However Dio's timeskip will be a real problem. Basically this comes down to if Dio can kill Luffy while time is stopped. I do think Dio can probably stab his fingers into Luffy and drain his blood while time is stopped, so I think I'll go with him. But without time stop Luffy would crush him. Also if Luffy decided to coat his entire body with haki for the entire fight Dio wouldn't' even be able to hurt him while time is stopped. But it's not in character for Luffy to do that.

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#44 Posted by Vulkanian (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: Every JoJo character is overhyped. People thinking Stands are invincible to any none stand should make it obvious, then there’s people thinking anyone in JoJo is FTL lol.

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#45 Posted by ScouterV (7760 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: To be fair, I don't think Luffy would initially be able to counter Dio. Even assuming he's not getting repeated blocked by The World for every punch, Dio is still essentially immortal. At best, he could incap.

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#46 Posted by AlexTheBoss (13769 posts) - - Show Bio

@vulkanian: For real. There were people telling me that Dio was too much for characters like Yamamoto, Meliodas, Lil Barrio, Madara, Aizen, ect. Dio's final move was to throw a steam roller at Jojo, threw knives slow enough to where they were stopped by magazines, and Josuke said his stand punched at a speed of over 300 km/hr, which isn't even the speed of sound (his stand's speed surprised Jotaro). Now I think Dio's and Jotaro's stands could possibly be hypersonic at full speed, but not light speed if we go by consistent feats.

@scouterv: Dio can't regen limbs (he needs to get them back to stick them back on) and if his head blows up I believe he dies, or at the very least the fight would be over at that point. Dio would also need blood to help him recover. If they are in a populated area that would be an advantage for Dio, but if there is nobody around he wont' be able to regain his power.

But like I said, I think Dio can probably win this, but only because of The World.

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#47 Posted by Rebake (3210 posts) - - Show Bio

@vulkanian: For real. There were people telling me that Dio was too much for characters like Yamamoto, Meliodas, Lil Barrio, Madara, Aizen, ect. Dio's final move was to throw a steam roller at Jojo, threw knives slow enough to where they were stopped by magazines, and Josuke said his stand punched at a speed of over 300 km/hr, which isn't even the speed of sound (his stand's speed surprised Jotaro). Now I think Dio's and Jotaro's stands could possibly be hypersonic at full speed, but not light speed if we go by consistent feats.

@scouterv: Dio can't regen limbs (he needs to get them back to stick them back on) and if his head blows up I believe he dies, or at the very least the fight would be over at that point. Dio would also need blood to help him recover. If they are in a populated area that would be an advantage for Dio, but if there is nobody around he wont' be able to regain his power.

But like I said, I think Dio can probably win this, but only because of The World.

Whenever I see Josuke's statement being used, I know right away it's lowballing. That was Crazy Diamond's minimum estimated speed. Josuke actually doesn't know. Don't use that as an example because it hurts your argument. Stands like Star Platinum are beyond hypersonic at full speed. Hypersonic is more like their normal speed, not top speed.

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#48 Edited by AlexTheBoss (13769 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: I never said that was his limit, I even said they could probably reach hypersonic speeds. Possibly even massively hypersonic. I just don't see them being FTL without time stop.

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#49 Posted by ZaCrimsonWarudo (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@vulkanian: https://goo.gl/images/Af2R4w this was in part 6, where he isn't at his prime

https://gyazo.com/3d26a9e1d0c84520d16c55b434f22a5d Kars blocks UV light.. Which is light

https://gyazo.com/e79eef9b0f92e45b7311ae9f9295b6cf Joseph and caesar dodging light

https://gyazo.com/7c90fb72965b7c4af498966e4e1d838a silver chariot reacting to and attacking light

https://gyazo.com/3c9f00fb7820577b0a0b4e43f9978f1e silver chariot again reacting to light https://gyazo.com/5aee5b7891be9d3295e7bbaa9a0cf0f9 and it is light.

How can you deny this xD

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#50 Posted by Vulkanian (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@zacrimsonwarudo: If they were FTL then they wouldn’t of shit themselves when they learned Star Platinum could catch bullets. They also wouldn’t be afraid of guns. And you know the whole steam roller and basically any random piece of the environment that’s been thrown around in the show that they have a hard time with.