Diamondhead vs Wolverine

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@YNCG Even saying that Hulk can heal faster than DH is wrong. Give me some scans to show that. About your only creature being Goop, remember Wildvine or Swampfire. That's right. Ben has many aliens who can heal many many times faster than Hulk.

You still didn't answer my Kevin question.

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#152  Edited By jashro44

@rbt:

In that case his hand will be chpped off. We're assuming here that his claws will cut his limbs like a hot knife cuts butter which is not the case.

Why wont he be able to cut diamondhead? He cut gladiator, hulk, thanos and thor remarked his "asgardian toughness" wouldn't last forever against wolverine, all of them are a lot more durable then diamondhead.

Being pain resistent is one thing. Not feeling pain at all is another. Logan can resist pain, but it'll definitely slow him down. DH's both feet maybe gone and he'll regenerate in seconds to resume firing while regenerating.

Thing is wolverines pain tolerance has proven sufficient to tank hits from class 100's.

DH's exploding projectiles will be Logan's reason to fail. Or his ability to control diamonds, ot his punch or he'll tire him down.

Wolverine has tanked much more powerful explosions then diamond heads projectiles and he can dodge them as well.

His ability to control diamonds is hard to counter but not really impossible. Wolverine could use his enhanced senses to determine when they will pop out of the ground if he needs to. He has used his senses to detect changes in air pressure to dodge cyclops optic blasts, he has predicted nightcrawlers teleports, and etc. I don't think it is much of a stretch he will be able to feel the vibrations in the ground of the diamonds popping out of the ground or something

As for tiring him out wolverine fought omega red for 17 (or was it 18?) hours straight. Omega reds death spores and Carbonadium cables would be more effective at exhausting wolverine then diamond head. I don't really recall Ben fighting for 17 hours ever let alone against someone like omega red for 17 hours.

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@rbt said:

@jashro44 I knew that was coming. How fast can vultures eat anyway? It takes packs of them more than a day or two to eat a body. So, no this does not even compare to what DH can do. Again, DH doesn't heal, he regenerates. And that's why he'll never be overwhelmed by Logan.

They were taring out organs which are harder to heal then hands and hulk wasn't 100% at the time. Besides YNCG just uploaded more scans of hulks healing factor.

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@rbt said:

@YNCG Even saying that Hulk can heal faster than DH is wrong. Give me some scans to show that. About your only creature being Goop, remember Wildvine or Swampfire. That's right. Ben has many aliens who can heal many many times faster than Hulk.

You still didn't answer my Kevin question.

Nah nah nah nah Goop's healing factor is way better than Wildvine and Swampfire's.

Hulk's healing factor is pretty insane dude.

First of all, let's look at what it takes to even HURT Hulk.

Hulk easily tanking High Evolutionary's blast

No Caption Provided

Hulk tanking atmospheric re-entry

No Caption Provided

Hulk tanking 50,000 volts of electricity

No Caption Provided

Hulk tanking a nuclear bomb

No Caption Provided


Now, when Hulk DOES manage to get hurt, he heals effortlessly. Note that this is from THE END Hulk story arc, but it still is considered a valid feat.

Heals from being eaten by giant cockroaches in 7-11 minutes (or seconds I can't see it that clearly and my memory of the panels escape me)


Anyways, despite all that, Logan can still harm Hulk as depicted in numerous grudge matches they have been in, so Hulk is no slack when it comes to durability and his healing factor.

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@jashro44 He did'nt chop off anybody's hand in one swipe now did he? And on what base can you say that they are harder than Diamondhead?DH's element is one of the hardest thing found in Ben 10 and DH's element can cut through THE haredest thing found(NRG-which can arguably be as strong as admandium).Maybe some of them are harder,some are not.Anyways,Logan didn't chop of their head and hand in one swipe so I'm not buying this.

Ok,Wolverine will be able to shrug off DH's punch once. He'll feel it next time.

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@jashro44 DH fires his projectiles to a very wide range. If Logan dodges them ALL, he'll be in the explosion area, even centre. If he decides to run, he'll get hit by some projectiles(which is as bad as previous one.) He can't do both, maybe Spiderman, but not Logan.

Lets take your word on thay he can sense diamonds coming out of ground. How will he know if it starts growing on his body, covering him, like he covered Kevin. He'll engulfed in seconds and will be completely immobilised. No escape from that.

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#157  Edited By jashro44

@rbt said:

@jashro44 He did'nt chop off anybody's hand in one swipe now did he? And on what base can you say that they are harder than Diamondhead?DH's element is one of the hardest thing found in Ben 10 and DH's element can cut through THE haredest thing found(NRG-which can arguably be as strong as admandium).Maybe some of them are harder,some are not.Anyways,Logan didn't chop of their head and hand in one swipe so I'm not buying this.

Ok,Wolverine will be able to shrug off DH's punch once. He'll feel it next time.

These characters are a lot more durable then diamond head. They tank stuff like nuclear bombs so Logan not cutting off there hands isn't a big deal.

And which episode was it confirmed diamondhead was made of taydenite? Dwayne Mcduffie specifically stated that diamondhead is not made of taydenite.

http://dwaynemcduffie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2104&p=113563&hilit=Tadenite+diamondhead&sid=de46e1504439bb5836af2c0253d73afb#p113563

There isn't going to be a next time. Wolverine is going to cut his head clean off. He is faster, more skilled, and his claws can do this to gladiator:

Stabbed clean through the shoulder.
Stabbed clean through the shoulder.

He can take diamond heads head off.

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#158  Edited By RBT

jashro44 So third hardest element. No big deal. Durablilty is one thing and hardness in another. If one is standing after his skin is torn off, he'll durable, but his skin is not hard.

Logan is faster- Yes.

More skilled- Yes.

Chop his head off- No.

DH has got 4 limbs protecting his head. Limbs which can easily grow twice, maybe more, as thick as their norman size.

Gladiator is not really known for his hardest body, is he?

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#159  Edited By jashro44

@rbt:

jashro44 So third hardest element. No big deal. Durablilty is one thing and hardness in another. If one is standing after his skin is torn off, he'll durable, but his skin is not hard.

3rd hardest element? What is this based on? Give me an episode to watch. And durability is hardness.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/durability

Having your skin avoid wearing and taring is being durable.

Logan is faster- Yes.

More skilled- Yes.

Chop his head off- No.

Your going to have to prove wolverine can't blitz diamondhead.

DH has got 4 limbs protecting his head. Limbs which can easily grow twice, maybe more, as thick as their norman size.

And why can't wolverine blitz him? What speed feats does diamondhead have to this level?

Gladiator is not really known for his hardest body, is he?

He is.

Can diamond head survive a star?
Can diamond head survive a star?

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@jashro44 Teadanite>NRG>DH. No other element has been mentioned in Ben 10 universe.

I was reading Emma Frost vs Wolverine battle right now, and most of the people believed that Logan doesn't have the strength to cut through her diamond as he was unable to cut through Collous(spelling?). I should've thought of that. Diamon head element is said to be harder than diamond and steel. Game over for Logan.

You STILL didn't answer my Kevin question. Maybe you realised that Logan can't win this.

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#161  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@rbt said:

@jashro44 Teadanite>NRG>DH. No other element has been mentioned in Ben 10 universe.

I was reading Emma Frost vs Wolverine battle right now, and most of the people believed that Logan doesn't have the strength to cut through her diamond as he was unable to cut through Collous(spelling?). I should've thought of that. Diamon head element is said to be harder than diamond and steel. Game over for Logan.

You STILL didn't answer my Kevin question. Maybe you realised that Logan can't win this.

Too bad banking on a bunch of people's wrong arguments doesn't fly on here. Colossus has already shown fear to Wolverine's claws and admitted they can cut him before, and Emma's diamond form doesn't hold up to adamantium either. And if you actually knew about Emma and Colossus, you'd know that their armored states are stronger than regular diamond and steel and both are incredibly durable beings themselves, capable of tanking blows from class 100+ characters themselves. That just adds more support to Logan's argument. And considering myself, and other people have already told you Logan has cut through some of the most durable beings in Marvel, Diamondhead doesn't stack up. This ABC logic that you keep spouting and going on and on about NRG and DH being the third most durable substance in Ben 10 has no backing in comparison to adamantium. It's incredibly inferior to adamantium since a "mountain" buster can shatter it like glass and characters that can destroy small planetary bodies haven't even dented adamantium and in fact can easily withstand mountain destroying attacks, hell multi-city, continent destroying attacks and Logan has still cut them.

So no game over for Wolverine. Diamondhead gets wrecked.

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@god_spawn@sideslash@ancient_0f_days

@rbt said:

@jashro44 Teadanite>NRG>DH. No other element has been mentioned in Ben 10 universe.

I was reading Emma Frost vs Wolverine battle right now, and most of the people believed that Logan doesn't have the strength to cut through her diamond as he was unable to cut through Collous(spelling?). I should've thought of that. Diamon head element is said to be harder than diamond and steel. Game over for Logan.

You STILL didn't answer my Kevin question. Maybe you realised that Logan can't win this.

Too bad banking on a bunch of people's wrong arguments doesn't fly on here. Colossus has already shown fear to Wolverine's claws and admitted they can cut him before, and Emma's diamond form doesn't hold up to adamantium either. And if you actually knew about Emma and Colossus, you'd know that their armored states are stronger than regular diamond and steel and both are incredibly durable beings themselves, capable of tanking blows from class 100+ characters themselves. That just adds more support to Logan's argument. And considering myself, and other people have already told you Logan has cut through some of the most durable beings in Marvel, Diamondhead doesn't stack up. This ABC logic that you keep spouting and going on and on about NRG and DH being the third most durable substance in Ben 10 has no backing in comparison to adamantium. It's incredibly inferior to adamantium since a "mountain" buster can shatter it like glass and characters that can destroy small planetary bodies haven't even dented adamantium and in fact can easily withstand mountain destroying attacks, hell multi-city, continent destroying attacks and Logan has still cut them.

So no game over for Wolverine. Diamondhead gets wrecked.

Believe me. I do know that Emma's skin is harder than diamond and Colossus' is harder than steel. Didn't Logan and Colossus fight once and Logan was unable to cut him. Admantium can cut through anything. But you need enough force. Logan is just a bit more powerful than a human. And diamondhead can make his limbs as thick as he wants(watch video 00:06). How will Logan cut through a chunk of material harder than diamond and wider than his own claws?

Also how will Logan get out of a suite of Diamonds(watch video 00:17)? He doesn't have enough strength to break it(Kevin couldn't do it on his own. He had to use Charmcaster's magic to break it. And Kevin-on his own- is way more powerful than Logan.) And don't tell me he can shatter it just by bringing out his claws.. It will NEVER apply enough force to break it.

Loading Video...

Mountain busters(you mean Vilgax, right?) can shatter it like glass? When has Vilgax ever shattered Diamond head. Most he's ever done is crack him a bit when he smashed him head first on Mt. Rushmore.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash He doesn't need to counter or block every Logan's attack. He doesn't feel pain at all. Closer Logan gets easier it'll to hit him with his diamond.

He will. Logan's claws will slice him into bits.

Not sure how he's even going to pose a problem whilst Logan cuts him into pieces repeatedly. What if Logan cuts his leg off and throws it away? I seem to remember Diamondhead not being able to heal when Tetrax shattered him with his sonic gun. They had to gather together all the bits and then turn DH back to Ben.

Yes, Logan can dodge all of them. But how far will he go? 100s of those projectiles exploding will be like many hand greneade exploding. Logan will easily be thrown off his feet.

I don't mean to nitpick, but Ben's kind of a lousy shot. And Logan makes a living out of dodging gunfire and grenades. And then there's his lunges. You seem to be ignoring Logan's huge jumping ability.

Let's take a scan that actually deals with a particularly similar scenario, except with Logan in a worse position.

That's a HF-less Wolverine (thanks to Scrambler), dodging exploding bullets, the explosions, and added shrapnel.
That's a HF-less Wolverine (thanks to Scrambler), dodging exploding bullets, the explosions, and added shrapnel.

You're treating Logan like XLR8 or Flash here. He's been in exloding range of many greneades here. He can't heal that quick.He'll need some seconds and DH wil have clean shot.

Can't heal that quick? Uh, yeah, he really can.

Takes a truck to the back. Walks away and leaves the truck undriveable.
Walks out of an explosion that knocks Rogue out.

IIRC, he's regenerated some other uber stuff (disintegrated arms and the like) really quick, so I don't think Diamondhead can output enough damage to put Wolverine down.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash He doesn't need to counter or block every Logan's attack. He doesn't feel pain at all. Closer Logan gets easier it'll to hit him with his diamond.

He will. Logan's claws will slice him into bits.

Not sure how he's even going to pose a problem whilst Logan cuts him into pieces repeatedly. What if Logan cuts his leg off and throws it away? I seem to remember Diamondhead not being able to heal when Tetrax shattered him with his sonic gun. They had to gather together all the bits and then turn DH back to Ben.

Yes, Logan can dodge all of them. But how far will he go? 100s of those projectiles exploding will be like many hand greneade exploding. Logan will easily be thrown off his feet.

I don't mean to nitpick, but Ben's kind of a lousy shot. And Logan makes a living out of dodging gunfire and grenades. And then there's his lunges. You seem to be ignoring Logan's huge jumping ability.

Let's take a scan that actually deals with a particularly similar scenario, except with Logan in a worse position.

That's a HF-less Wolverine (thanks to Scrambler), dodging exploding bullets, the explosions, and added shrapnel.
That's a HF-less Wolverine (thanks to Scrambler), dodging exploding bullets, the explosions, and added shrapnel.

You're treating Logan like XLR8 or Flash here. He's been in exloding range of many greneades here. He can't heal that quick.He'll need some seconds and DH wil have clean shot.

Can't heal that quick? Uh, yeah, he really can.

Takes a truck to the back. Walks away and leaves the truck undriveable.
Walks out of an explosion that knocks Rogue out.

IIRC, he's regenerated some other uber stuff (disintegrated arms and the like) really quick, so I don't think Diamondhead can output enough damage to put Wolverine down.

DH doesn't feel pain. Plain and simple.

Dh doesn't need his cut body part to regenerate. His first encounter with Vilgax where he lost his hand and regenrated it in 1 second.

Ben is no Two-Face. But he's had a lot of practice with DH(like he mentioned to Vilgax.) Also one doesn't need pin point accuracy when they can fire to an area occupied by 10 humans.

So, Logan is going to keep jumping to save himself? DH can do that as well. In both videos he's taken a good jump. So he's already pushed Wolvie to defensive.

All pics you posted are of Wolverine jumping out of 10 explosives at most(1st one.) DH can fire 100s of them per second.

You didn't reply to any point I mentioned in my last comment, like "How will Logan cut through a chunk of material harder than diamond and wider than his own claws?"

and "How will Logan get out of a suite of Diamonds"?

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#165  Edited By Sideslash

@rbt said:

@sideslash said:

@rbt said:

@sideslash He doesn't need to counter or block every Logan's attack. He doesn't feel pain at all. Closer Logan gets easier it'll to hit him with his diamond.

He will. Logan's claws will slice him into bits.

Not sure how he's even going to pose a problem whilst Logan cuts him into pieces repeatedly. What if Logan cuts his leg off and throws it away? I seem to remember Diamondhead not being able to heal when Tetrax shattered him with his sonic gun. They had to gather together all the bits and then turn DH back to Ben.

Yes, Logan can dodge all of them. But how far will he go? 100s of those projectiles exploding will be like many hand greneade exploding. Logan will easily be thrown off his feet.

I don't mean to nitpick, but Ben's kind of a lousy shot. And Logan makes a living out of dodging gunfire and grenades. And then there's his lunges. You seem to be ignoring Logan's huge jumping ability.

Let's take a scan that actually deals with a particularly similar scenario, except with Logan in a worse position.

That's a HF-less Wolverine (thanks to Scrambler), dodging exploding bullets, the explosions, and added shrapnel.
That's a HF-less Wolverine (thanks to Scrambler), dodging exploding bullets, the explosions, and added shrapnel.

You're treating Logan like XLR8 or Flash here. He's been in exloding range of many greneades here. He can't heal that quick.He'll need some seconds and DH wil have clean shot.

Can't heal that quick? Uh, yeah, he really can.

Takes a truck to the back. Walks away and leaves the truck undriveable.
Walks out of an explosion that knocks Rogue out.

IIRC, he's regenerated some other uber stuff (disintegrated arms and the like) really quick, so I don't think Diamondhead can output enough damage to put Wolverine down.

DH doesn't feel pain. Plain and simple.

Dh doesn't need his cut body part to regenerate. His first encounter with Vilgax where he lost his hand and regenrated it in 1 second.

Ben is no Two-Face. But he's had a lot of practice with DH(like he mentioned to Vilgax.) Also one doesn't need pin point accuracy when they can fire to an area occupied by 10 humans.

So, Logan is going to keep jumping to save himself? DH can do that as well. In both videos he's taken a good jump. So he's already pushed Wolvie to defensive.

All pics you posted are of Wolverine jumping out of 10 explosives at most(1st one.) DH can fire 100s of them per second.

You didn't reply to any point I mentioned in my last comment, like "How will Logan cut through a chunk of material harder than diamond and wider than his own claws?"

and "How will Logan get out of a suite of Diamonds"?

It doesn't matter if he doesn't feel pain. If he has no way to attack, his ability to not feel pain is irrelevant.

That seems a little inconsistent. Maybe it has something to do with sonics. Huh.

He's not firing to an area occupied by 10 humans, he's firing at a small target, who is much much faster than he is.

No, he's going to lunge at Diamondhead, knock him down, and keep cutting him until he stops moving. It's just another form of offense. And if Wolverine starts losing, he'll go into Beserker Rage.

There is no time when he's fired 100s of diamonds in a second, and they've been dodged in the past.

"How will Logan cut through material harder than diamond and wider than his claws?"

Maybe with his indestructible claws that have cut Hulk, Thor, and other super durable characters that can tank multi-city busting attacks, and are clearly wider than his claws.

"How will Logan get out of a suit of diamonds?"

Assuming DH can even encase Logan in a suit of diamonds, which I highly doubt, since Logan doesn't just stand around like a post as most Ben 10 villains do (Sunder, the Vreedles, Forever Knights, Vilgax, Kevin, Agreggor, etc), and stays on the move, Logan popping his claws will slice clean through the diamonds.

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@Sideslash DH cannot even if he wants to fire all his prejectiles at same point. He sees the target and fires all around him, that's always has been his way and that's what he did to Vilgax.

At least 25 projectiles leave his both hands once and it cannot take more than 1/5th of a second to leave. Here's 25. I'll give you a link of a pic of him firing(since I can't upload from mobile).

Can you cut a 8 inch sheet with a 6 inch blade in one swipe? No one can.

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@Sideslash DH cannot even if he wants to fire all his prejectiles at same point. He sees the target and fires all around him, that's always has been his way and that's what he did to Vilgax.

At least 25 projectiles leave his both hands once and it cannot take more than 1/5th of a second to leave. Here's 25. I'll give you a link of a pic of him firing(since I can't upload from mobile).

Can you cut a 8 inch sheet with a 6 inch blade in one swipe? No one can.

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@rbt: Exactly. DH sprays and prays. And Wolverine dodges much more experienced and skilled gunmen on a regular basis.

It doesn't matter whether anyone can in real life, since this is about a comic character vs a cartoon character. In other words, fictionland.

The point is, Wolverine has cut Hulk, who is wider than his claws, and he's cut Thor, and others with superior durability feats than what Diamondhead has shown.

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@sideslash Guns--bullets. DH---greneade@125/second. Enough said.

I know he's cut hulk and thing and whatever. But we're not areguring about whether he can cut DH or not, are we? It's established he can cut. What we're arguing is whether he can chop his hand in one swipe? No he can't. No one can. Lets assume Logan's claws are 10" long and DH's hand is 14" wide. One swipe simply can't finish the job. He'll just create a 10"(maxm) dent in it, which DH can heal almost instanstly.

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#170  Edited By RBT

@sideslash About engulfing Logan in Diamonds. Logan doesn't necessarily has to be steady. In the video, Kevin was actually advancing towards Gwen when diamonds started engulfing him. It took one second to engulf him completely. Logan will be in same situation. And saying that he can shatter the cover just by popping his claws is ridiculous. Logan is swiping balde at his maximum strenght to cut it and suddenly it can be sliced by just popping it out. Won't believe it.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash Guns--bullets. DH---greneade@125/second. Enough said.

I know he's cut hulk and thing and whatever. But we're not areguring about whether he can cut DH or not, are we? It's established he can cut. What we're arguing is whether he can chop his hand in one swipe? No he can't. No one can. Lets assume Logan's claws are 10" long and DH's hand is 14" wide. One swipe simply can't finish the job. He'll just create a 10"(maxm) dent in it, which DH can heal almost instanstly.

You've gone from "machine gun speed" to "125 per second". Find your facts, please.

Yeah, yeah he can. He'll cut from the side where he can finish the job in one swipe.

I'm wondering - Does Diamondhead regenerate from the biggest bit of his body, or the bit his head is on?

Because Wolverine might just go for a decapitation, and that would take Diamondhead a fair bit to recover from.

@rbt said:

@sideslash About engulfing Logan in Diamonds. Logan doesn't necessarily has to be steady. In the video, Kevin was actually advancing towards Gwen when diamonds started engulfing him. It took one second to engulf him completely. Logan will be in same situation. And saying that he can shatter the cover just by popping his claws is ridiculous. Logan is swiping balde at his maximum strenght to cut it and suddenly it can be sliced by just popping it out. Won't believe it.

Wolverine's claws unsheathe at something like 300 mph, IIRC. A single SNIKT!, and Logan's claws will slice through the diamonds.

And about Kevin advancing on Gwen when DH started covering him in diamonds - I've seen that episode thrice. He's advancing really slow, like Charmcaster's normal statues. Logan will be cartwheeling, dodging, flipping, jumping, sprinting, and the like, all around DH.

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@sideslash His projectiles 'travels' at bullet speed. And he can fire 125 projectiles per second. Two different things.

How would he cut it? Lemme see. Logan reaches DH and asks him to show his arm. DH does so. Logan examines his hand to find the thinnest crosssection. He asks DH to stand still and takes a swipe at it. Slash! His hand is chopped of. Dude, not gonna happen. Do not say he'll just do it. He can't do what is virtually impossible(not for us, but for him).

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@rbt said:

@sideslash His projectiles 'travels' at bullet speed. And he can fire 125 projectiles per second. Two different things.

How would he cut it? Lemme see. Logan reaches DH and asks him to show his arm. DH does so. Logan examines his hand to find the thinnest crosssection. He asks DH to stand still and takes a swipe at it. Slash! His hand is chopped of. Dude, not gonna happen. Do not say he'll just do it. He can't do what is virtually impossible(not for us, but for him).

And he'll still miss because Logan can effortlessly dodge multiple attackers all using automatic rifles.

How'll he cut it? Something a little like this:
Logan effortlessly dances around DH, delivering cuts all over Diamondhead's body. DH thinks nothing of it, until Logan absolutely blitzes him and ends up slicing him into bitesize chunks. As he heals, Wolverine continues slicing him into smaller and smaller pieces. As he heals, the pieces get bigger and join together, until he reaches big enough pieces to get cut into small pieces again.

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@sideslash And why would DH think nothing of it? Is he crazy or is he not seeing 6 claws sticking out of his hand? Kinda hard to miss those.

And all while Logan is dancing around him, DH won't try to block or jump in the air, right? He's not a sitting duck waiting for Logan to come and cut him.

Doing all those cartwells, jogging and jumping, Logan will have to land on ground. That's all DH needs.

Also, if Logan jumps, he'll die. Once he's in air, he can't change his path. DH will shoot him down.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash And why would DH think nothing of it? Is he crazy or is he not seeing 6 claws sticking out of his hand? Kinda hard to miss those.

And all while Logan is dancing around him, DH won't try to block or jump in the air, right? He's not a sitting duck waiting for Logan to come and cut him.

Doing all those cartwells, jogging and jumping, Logan will have to land on ground. That's all DH needs.

Also, if Logan jumps, he'll die. Once he's in air, he can't change his path. DH will shoot him down.

My point is, Logan's infinitely faster than Diamondhead. Diamondhead won't be able to tag, or dodge him. He'll get utterly obliterated.

About Diamondhead shooting him down...No. He dodges bullets while jumping. He's too fast for gunmen to get a bead on, and Diamondhead doesn't have any accelerated reactions or perceptions. Wolverine has him utterly beaten in terms of speed, evasion, durability, damage output, stamina, etc.

If anyone wants to stay out of the air, it's Diamondhead. He jumps, Wolverine will hit him like a spear, knock him down, and cut his face up, or his head off.

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@sideslash While in air, there's NOTHING Logan can do that'll change his path. Unless he decides to chop off his hand and throw it with 50m/s. Otherwise, he's doomed. I'm a physics student, I would know.

Also, if DH is in air and Logan decides to jump and tackle him, he'll be shot with muliple diamonds before he can reach him. Remember DH can fire from his whole body. While in air he can easily many projectiles in all direction. Imagine it in your head.Logan can dodge them if he's on ground otherwise can't.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash While in air, there's NOTHING Logan can do that'll change his path. Unless he decides to chop off his hand and throw it with 50m/s. Otherwise, he's doomed. I'm a physics student, I would know.

Also, if DH is in air and Logan decides to jump and tackle him, he'll be shot with muliple diamonds before he can reach him. Remember DH can fire from his whole body. While in air he can easily many projectiles in all direction. Imagine it in your head.Logan can dodge them if he's on ground otherwise can't.

He jumps and flips to dodge. If he's already dodging whilst he jumps, DH isn't going to suddenly start firing in front of Logan's path, he'll try to catch up to him, which he won't be able to.

DH hardly EVER fires from anything other than his hands. I think I've seen him fire from a part of his body that wasn't his hands in one episode of the original Ben 10 series, and that was to destroy a swarm of robots. And he had to cover himself in a full diamond shield to defend himself against a building levelling explosion.

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@sideslash If Logan jumps in the air, lets say 40ft, he'll be in the air for 2.5 seconds. And diamondhead is no rookie with a gun. He has a wide range of attack with unlimited bullets. 2.5 seconds of prdictible path, he can manage to hit wolverine, pretty easily.

It doesn't matter if he does that frequently or not. What matter is if he can do it or not. He saw the need to do when robots were there, and did it. He'll see that Logan can dodge his straight attacks, he'll choose to do it.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash If Logan jumps in the air, lets say 40ft, he'll be in the air for 2.5 seconds. And diamondhead is no rookie with a gun. He has a wide range of attack with unlimited bullets. 2.5 seconds of prdictible path, he can manage to hit wolverine, pretty easily.

It doesn't matter if he does that frequently or not. What matter is if he can do it or not. He saw the need to do when robots were there, and did it. He'll see that Logan can dodge his straight attacks, he'll choose to do it.

He only ever leaps that far with a set target. If he's dodging, he'll keep his jumps short, compact, and stay ahead of Diamondhead's line of fire. Ben's never really been a decent shot, especially not compared to people Logan dodges. I'm fairly sure he's dodged Cyclops' blasts before.

No. He won't do it. He has done it once, against several dozen enemies who were swarming him and climbing all over him. He's facing one enemy who he'll find it difficult to hit. You know, Ben rarely, if ever, uses an AOE attack if he fails to hit a single enemy. That's how the robot that Harangue had built was able to beat him in a number of his alien forms, it's how he often gets beat up, and it's how Diamondhead got beat the crap out of in his first appearance by Six Six and Kraab.

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@sideslash Dodging cyclop's blast is way easier than dodging DH's . Cyclops blast is a beam of ray 8-10 cm wide. While DH's is almost a meter which he can easily increase by flicking his hands. Cyclops can't flick his eyes.

We can't say whether DH will do it or not. I mean, I can say that Logan won't try to chop his head off since he rarely jumps at his opponents and decapitate them. Remeber morals are on. He doesn't even try to cut his opponent limb, mostly he does in slice them a bit to make them bleed.

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@sideslash So we cannot debate about whether he'll do it or not. If they can do it, we've to assume that they will do it if needed.

Also Ben got his arse kicked by Krabb and Six Six because it was 3rd episode. How many times do you think he'd used DH? By the time he'll be facing Logan(Alien Force), he'll be an expert.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash Dodging cyclop's blast is way easier than dodging DH's . Cyclops blast is a beam of ray 8-10 cm wide. While DH's is almost a meter which he can easily increase by flicking his hands. Cyclops can't flick his eyes.

We can't say whether DH will do it or not. I mean, I can say that Logan won't try to chop his head off since he rarely jumps at his opponents and decapitate them. Remeber morals are on. He doesn't even try to cut his opponent limb, mostly he does in slice them a bit to make them bleed.

Cyclops has way better feats with his beam than Diamondhead does with his machine gun arms.

For example, tagging Northstar, levelling mountains, destroying a Sentinel by taking his visor off, etc.

We can say he won't do it. He's done it once against a swarm of opponents when he had to end the fight quickly. None of that is necessary here. He won't do it here.

What do you mean he won't do it with morals on? I remember him slicing up a guy's power suit that was keeping him alive, and then left him to die, he's killed before, etc, etc.

@rbt said:

@sideslash So we cannot debate about whether he'll do it or not. If they can do it, we've to assume that they will do it if needed.

Also Ben got his arse kicked by Krabb and Six Six because it was 3rd episode. How many times do you think he'd used DH? By the time he'll be facing Logan(Alien Force), he'll be an expert.

It doesn't matter how many times he's used him, he's still a lousy shot that Logan won't be hard pressed to dodge.

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@sideslash Read my last post and tell me where did I say that DH's blast is more powerful than Cyclop's? I said that its easier to 'dodge' cyclop's blast.

This is not how you argue. DH can fire from his whole body and he'll if situation arises. End of story.

Logan kills if necessary. So does Ben. He threw Vilgax in the orbit believing he's killed him. He was hell bent on killing Kevin in Ultimate Alien. So don't think DH won't kill or nearly kill him to win.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash Read my last post and tell me where did I say that DH's blast is more powerful than Cyclop's? I said that its easier to 'dodge' cyclop's blast.

This is not how you argue. DH can fire from his whole body and he'll if situation arises. End of story.

Logan kills if necessary. So does Ben. He threw Vilgax in the orbit believing he's killed him. He was hell bent on killing Kevin in Ultimate Alien. So don't think DH won't kill or nearly kill him to win.

And my point is: No, it's not easier to dodge Cyclops' blast. Not by a long shot. Cyclops has tagged Northstar. Do you know who Northstar is? Cyclops has far superior reflexes to Ben, and is an infinitely better marksman.

No, he won't. He did it once because he was about to get blown up. That is not the case here, so he will not use that tactic.

Morals on, Ben won't kill. Whilst Logan would be more willing to cripple Diamondhead. And like I've said, Diamondhead can't kill him even if he wanted to.

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@Sideslash Um..yeah. I do know who Northstar is. And it doesn't matter who has better reflexes, Cyclops or Ben, cause they are not dodging. They are attacking. Its common sense. Apply it.

No one can argue you if you are just going to deny it on no damn basis.

Did you not read the part where Ben killed Vilgax when he's 10(he believed he did). Or did you forget that he killed Ghostfreak, twice. Or what about the fact that he tried to kill Kevin, who he later admitted is almost like his brother? Nevermind.

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@rbt said:

@Sideslash Um..yeah. I do know who Northstar is. And it doesn't matter who has better reflexes, Cyclops or Ben, cause they are not dodging. They are attacking. Its common sense. Apply it.

No one can argue you if you are just going to deny it on no damn basis.

Did you not read the part where Ben killed Vilgax when he's 10(he believed he did). Or did you forget that he killed Ghostfreak, twice. Or what about the fact that he tried to kill Kevin, who he later admitted is almost like his brother? Nevermind.

Reflexes matter when dodging AND attacking. The better reflexes determine who's faster up close, who will get more hits in, and who will dodge the most attacks. That's common sense. Apply it.

I have a basis. It's something he's done once, under very specific circumstances. Circumstances that aren't a factor here. Hence, the overwhelming likelihood is, he won't do it.

Morals, my friend, morals. When he was ten, he was obsessed about possessing the Omnitrix, and when people tried to take it, he lost his morals. He chucked Vilgax into space to stop him taking the Omnitrix the first time, then did it again in Secret of the Omnitrix as Way Big because he knew he could take it. The second time he killed Ghostfreak, Gwen and Max helped. Would you therefore say that Gwen and Max go for a kill in every battle? He also wanted to "take Kevin down", because Kevin had all the powers of his aliens, plus the powers that Agreggor had absorbed.

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@sideslash No it doesn't. Spiderman has better reflexes than Cyclops. Does that mean that he can shoot better than Cyclops or that he can dodge better than him? Rath can tell you that its the second case. Yes, Cyclops can come closer to hit, but ultimately he'll fire one 8 cm wide beam which is sure as hell easier to dodge than 100 bullets fired in 1m width or more.

Tell me, how many times had Logan just jumped at his opponent(when fight starts) and cut their head off or even their limbs?

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About the moral thing, Ben thought he's killed Vilgax because he's surprised to know that Vilgax is back in Alien Force. In the Final Battle he again thought he's killed him, only to find he survived later. Gwen or Max were not the one who pulled the curtain to vamparize Ghost Freak. Ben after taking Ultimate Kevin down using Ultimate Echo Echo was going to finish him off. It was Gwen's begging that made him stop. What I'm saying is that Ben has never hesitated to kill someone to win, he won't again.

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#189  Edited By jashro44

@rbt:

@jashro44 Teadanite>NRG>DH. No other element has been mentioned in Ben 10 universe.

Your basing this off of nothing. In the original series diamondhead bashed his diamonds against vilgaxs armor and it broke.

skip to 1:05

Loading Video...

I was reading Emma Frost vs Wolverine battle right now, and most of the people believed that Logan doesn't have the strength to cut through her diamond as he was unable to cut through Collous(spelling?).

I don't care what others say unless its backed up with evidence. Unless you can prove wolverine is unable to cut Emma and colossus it is irrelevant what others think.

Anyways wolverine has cut colossus before and IIRC Daken (who is weaker and has less durable claws then wolverine) was able to chip Emmas diamond form.

I should've thought of that. Diamon head element is said to be harder than diamond and steel. Game over for Logan.

Colossus and Emma are more durable then steel and diamond and please prove wolverine is unable to cut colossus because:

You also need to prove that diamondhead is as durable as colossus

You STILL didn't answer my Kevin question. Maybe you realised that Logan can't win this.

I don't recall you directing that question at me but I actually did answer it. Go to comment 152. This is what I said:

His ability to control diamonds is hard to counter but not really impossible. Wolverine could use his enhanced senses to determine when they will pop out of the ground if he needs to. He has used his senses to detect changes in air pressure to dodge cyclops optic blasts, he has predicted nightcrawlers teleports, and etc. I don't think it is much of a stretch he will be able to feel the vibrations in the ground of the diamonds popping out of the ground or something

Wolveirne being able to here something moving out of the ground isn't really a stretch to believe considering his enhanced senses. He will just hear the diamonds coming out of the ground. And this is assuming diamondhead doesn't get blitzed.

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@rbt said:

@sideslash No it doesn't. Spiderman has better reflexes than Cyclops. Does that mean that he can shoot better than Cyclops or that he can dodge better than him? Rath can tell you that its the second case. Yes, Cyclops can come closer to hit, but ultimately he'll fire one 8 cm wide beam which is sure as hell easier to dodge than 100 bullets fired in 1m width or more.

Tell me, how many times had Logan just jumped at his opponent(when fight starts) and cut their head off or even their limbs?

Spider-Man can dodge better than Cyke because of his precog and his superhuman agility, not his reflexes.

Cyclops is a quicker, and better shot than Diamondhead.

Also, about that "8cm wide beam" thing, Cyclops often uses a narrow beam because he's such a good shot. It's all about how wide he opens his eyes/visor.

Diamondhead might saturate an area 1 metre wide with hundreds of diamond bullets, but by that time, Wolverine will be behind him.

My point is, faster reflexes mean faster attacks, not just better dodging.

He's tried it a greater number of times than the technique you're saying DH is going to use. As a matter of fact, there's been a scan somewhere where Wolverine and Cyclops are arguing about Cyke making some mutant kill a bunch of people, and Cyclops simply retorts "you should have been there to do it yourself".

@rbt said:

About the moral thing, Ben thought he's killed Vilgax because he's surprised to know that Vilgax is back in Alien Force. In the Final Battle he again thought he's killed him, only to find he survived later. Gwen or Max were not the one who pulled the curtain to vamparize Ghost Freak. Ben after taking Ultimate Kevin down using Ultimate Echo Echo was going to finish him off. It was Gwen's begging that made him stop. What I'm saying is that Ben has never hesitated to kill someone to win, he won't again.

Yeah, he was surprised that Vilgax was back, since he'd thrown him off Xenon. He figured the ships' graveyard would stop him getting anywhere.

In the Final Battle, he thought Vilgax died when his ship blew up (again, not something he did).

No, but Max was the one who turned the shuttle to vapourise Ghostfreak with direct sunlight, and Gwen was the one who opened the airlock.

He was going to finish off Kevin because he knew he wasn't going to be able to stop Kevin again.

Never hesitated to kill someone? Oh, that will be why Enoch's dead...wait, no he isn't. And Vilgax...oh, no wait...Argit, nope...Sir George, nope...Most of the Forever Knights, nope...Albedo, nope...

You were saying?

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@jashro44 We don't need to discuss DH's hardness. Its already established that Logan can cut through him. What I'm trying to ask that how will Logan cut off his hand in one shot when it can easily become twice as wide as his claws(watch last video I posted, 00:05).

About the diamond control thing. Ok, I take your word that Logan can sense them coming out of ground so he'll more away. But what will he do when DH genrates the Diamond on his body and engulf him(video 00:16). He's not strong enough to get out.

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@sideslash Again I'm not denying that Cyclops is a better shooter than DH. Think about it, which is easier for you to dodge, a beam coming at centre of you chest or 100s of bullets covering whole body and a wide area around both side of you?

"But by the time, Wolverine will be behind him."

Lol. That made me laugh.

Lets see, if they start 30m apart, projectiles will take almost 1/2sec to reach him(it will be less, but anyway). Logan will have to move at atleast 140mph to do what you said he can do. Possible?

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@rbt said:

@sideslash Again I'm not denying that Cyclops is a better shooter than DH. Think about it, which is easier for you to dodge, a beam coming at centre of you chest or 100s of bullets covering whole body and a wide area around both side of you?

"But by the time, Wolverine will be behind him."

Lol. That made me laugh.

Lets see, if they start 30m apart, projectiles will take almost 1/2sec to reach him(it will be less, but anyway). Logan will have to move at atleast 140mph to do what you said he can do. Possible?

Yes. Wolverine effortlessly dodges automatic gunfire from multiple gunmen. Diamondhead won't be able to land a single clean shot on him.

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Wolverine cuts his head off.

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@sideslash So Logan can run at 140mph all while dodging greneades? Wow, I must've read some alternate version of Marvel till now.

Yes he's dodged 100s bullet at times, never has he dodged 100s greneades. Scans you(or someone else) posted were just of 5-10 greneades at most.

Conclusion- Logan can't dodge 100s of g-nades going all over him and around him.

@Stronger And he grows it back. Got anything else?

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@sideslash About Ben to soft to kill. He BFRed Enoch in his dream by sending him into sun. But I guess that doesn't count since he knew it was a dream.

Max was a plumber. He knew he couldn't kill Ghostfreak with a sun gun. They are too fast. It was just to scare him.

Argit? Seriously? He's not worth the calories you spend killing him. Sir George- Ben couldn't kill him if he tried. And he did try. Twice. Vilgax- Well, he did think he's killed him. Twice. Forever knights are least of Ben's problem.

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I see Ben gloating while wolverine jumps on him and keeps on slashing at him.

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#198  Edited By RBT

@GrandSymbiote94 You see wrong. Ben gloats to the enemies who he knows. He didn't gloat when he first faced Vilgax or Kevin or a Highbreed commander, Rhine(spelling?). Even Dr. Animo. He only gloats when he knows his enemy. He sure as hell doesn't know Logan.

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Diamondhead won't go down easily.Wolvie will be able to scratch him, no doubt, but cut his head off!?Nah.

Diamondhead 7/10

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@rbt said:

@sideslash So Logan can run at 140mph all while dodging greneades? Wow, I must've read some alternate version of Marvel till now.

Yes he's dodged 100s bullet at times, never has he dodged 100s greneades. Scans you(or someone else) posted were just of 5-10 greneades at most.

Conclusion- Logan can't dodge 100s of g-nades going all over him and around him.

@Stronger And he grows it back. Got anything else?

Has he ever displayed that kind of power?