Dettlaff van der Eretein and Emiel Regis (Witcher) vs Marcus Corvinus and Viktor (Underworld)

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#1 Edited by the_wspanialy (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

The Higher Vampires

Dettlaff van der Eretein and Emiel Regis Rohellec Terzieff-Godefroy
Dettlaff van der Eretein and Emiel Regis Rohellec Terzieff-Godefroy
No Caption Provided

The Elder Vampires

Marcus Corvinus and Viktor
Marcus Corvinus and Viktor

Rules:

  • In character
  • No prior knowledge
  • Marcus and Viktor have their medieval gear
  • All combatants start in their base forms
  • Victory by death
  • The battle takes place in the ruins of Tesham Mutna, by night

Music:

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#3 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

If you want instant replies to your thread you should call me out. I am one of the most knowledgeable when it comes to Witcher Verse.

OT: underworld Vampires win in a stomp. Vampires in the Witcher verse are not really all that great of fighters.

To give more Context, and a proper example, a vampire horde led by Regis and his girlfriend attacked the tiny village of Fox Hollow in Toussaint. Not only the hastily assembled peasants fight back the horde, they actually took the fight to the vampires' castle of Tesham Mutna and slaughtered every single one of the hundreds of vampires in the castle.

only Regis escaped due to higher vampiric regen, but he still got cut into thousands of small pieces and each piece was buried deep underground randomly all over Toussaint. He eventually regenerated after a hundred years or so, but the entire ordeal was so horrible and utterly humiliating that he swore never to drink blood ever again and become a good person, just to note the peasants were extremely drunk and armed only with peasant tools like scythes, sickles, pitchforks, etc.

Marcus Corvinus and Viktor would never get soloed by Peasants no matter how many there were.

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#4 Posted by KingCrimson (6240 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: Seems like a low showing given what we see both Regis and Detlaff do in game to a battalion of fully armed soldiers, and what their stats are like.

They should honestly rip the underworld duo to pieces.

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#5 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingcrimson said:

@mygod000: Seems like a low showing given what we see both Regis and Detlaff do in game to a battalion of fully armed soldiers, and what their stats are like.

They should honestly rip the underworld duo to pieces.

Just to let you know young Vesemir was initially helping them out. When they broke down the gates of Tesham Mutna, some rubble fell on Vesemir's head and knocked him out for the remainder of the battle, meaning that the peasants still cleared out the castle by themselves and with lower numbers.

It just means Vampires in there can't really fight when drinking blood...it's been stated many times that they get drunk off it and like I was talking about the Peasants even whooped them and slaughtered all the Vampires in Tesham Mutna.

Which is why Regis doesn't drink Blood to always remind him of that humiliating defeat.

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#6 Posted by KingCrimson (6240 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: Hmm, fair enough. Seems kind of irrelevant to this battle though. The Underworld duo are physically outclassed, IMO.

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#7 Posted by the_wspanialy (4333 posts) - - Show Bio
@mygod000 said:

If you want instant replies to your thread you should call me out. I am one of the most knowledgeable when it comes to Witcher Verse.

OT: underworld Vampires win in a stomp. Vampires in the Witcher verse are not really all that great of fighters.

To give more Context, and a proper example, a vampire horde led by Regis and his girlfriend attacked the tiny village of Fox Hollow in Toussaint. Not only the hastily assembled peasants fight back the horde, they actually took the fight to the vampires' castle of Tesham Mutna and slaughtered every single one of the hundreds of vampires in the castle.

only Regis escaped due to higher vampiric regen, but he still got cut into thousands of small pieces and each piece was buried deep underground randomly all over Toussaint. He eventually regenerated after a hundred years or so, but the entire ordeal was so horrible and utterly humiliating that he swore never to drink blood ever again and become a good person, just to note the peasants were extremely drunk and armed only with peasant tools like scythes, sickles, pitchforks, etc.

Marcus Corvinus and Viktor would never get soloed by Peasants no matter how many there were.

Your "knowledge" is exactly the reason why I didn't call you out.

The reason why Regis does not drink blood anymore is beceuse he was drinking way too much in his youth and caused an accident while flying under the influence of blood:

From Baptism of Fire
From Baptism of Fire

I recommend reading the books instead of treating non-canon GWENT as your main source.

@mygod000: Seems like a low showing given what we see both Regis and Detlaff do in game to a battalion of fully armed soldiers, and what their stats are like.

They should honestly rip the underworld duo to pieces.

Saying it's "a low showing" would be an understatement of the year. Not only this information comes from non-canon (even from the games standpoint) source, it's outright retarded.

During the Night of Long Fangs, a single fledder (a lesser vampire) was able to kill half of unit of Anna Henrietta's personal guard led by Damien de la Tour.

When talking about Dettlaff, Regis' equal (if not superior), Geralt outright stated that regardless of how many man Damien throws at Dettlaff, it won't matter:

Fourty, fifty, a hundred - doesn't matter. Won't make any difference against him.

Blood and Wine

Are we really suppose to beleive that a "horde" of vampires, led by a higher vampire, would be repelled by a bunch of peasants?

There are only two ways this would be even remotely feasible:

  • the peasants knew about the incoming attack and prepared accordingly
  • Vesemir was ubber duper badass, capable of taking on a higher vampire and his horde by himself.

You would also expect that events such as repelling a horde of vampires or cleansing of vampire-infested fortress would be at least mentioned in the Fox Hollow's and Tesham Mutna's in-game descriptions. Or that Regis himself, a supposed paticipant of those events, would mention something about it to Geralt during their visit to Tesham Mutna.

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#8 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy said:
@mygod000 said:

If you want instant replies to your thread you should call me out. I am one of the most knowledgeable when it comes to Witcher Verse.

OT: underworld Vampires win in a stomp. Vampires in the Witcher verse are not really all that great of fighters.

To give more Context, and a proper example, a vampire horde led by Regis and his girlfriend attacked the tiny village of Fox Hollow in Toussaint. Not only the hastily assembled peasants fight back the horde, they actually took the fight to the vampires' castle of Tesham Mutna and slaughtered every single one of the hundreds of vampires in the castle.

only Regis escaped due to higher vampiric regen, but he still got cut into thousands of small pieces and each piece was buried deep underground randomly all over Toussaint. He eventually regenerated after a hundred years or so, but the entire ordeal was so horrible and utterly humiliating that he swore never to drink blood ever again and become a good person, just to note the peasants were extremely drunk and armed only with peasant tools like scythes, sickles, pitchforks, etc.

Marcus Corvinus and Viktor would never get soloed by Peasants no matter how many there were.

Your "knowledge" is exactly the reason why I didn't call you out.

The reason why Regis does not drink blood anymore is beceuse he was drinking way too much in his youth and caused an accident while flying under the influence of blood:

From Baptism of Fire
From Baptism of Fire

I recommend reading the books instead of treating non-canon GWENT as your main source.

@kingcrimson said:

@mygod000: Seems like a low showing given what we see both Regis and Detlaff do in game to a battalion of fully armed soldiers, and what their stats are like.

They should honestly rip the underworld duo to pieces.

Saying it's "a low showing" would be an understatement of the year. Not only this information comes from non-canon (even from the games standpoint) source, it's outright retarded.

During the Night of Long Fangs, a single fledder (a lesser vampire) was able to kill half of unit of Anna Henrietta's personal guard led by Damien de la Tour.

When talking about Dettlaff, Regis' equal (if not superior), Geralt outright stated that regardless of how many man Damien throws at Dettlaff, it won't matter:

Fourty, fifty, a hundred - doesn't matter. Won't make any difference against him.

Blood and Wine

Are we really suppose to beleive that a "horde" of vampires, led by a higher vampire, would be repelled by a bunch of peasants?

There are only two ways this would be even remotely feasible:

  • the peasants knew about the incoming attack and prepared accordingly
  • Vesemir was ubber duper badass, capable of taking on a higher vampire and his horde by himself.

You would also expect that events such as repelling a horde of vampires or cleansing of vampire-infested fortress would be at least mentioned in the Fox Hollow's and Tesham Mutna's in-game descriptions. Or that Regis himself, a supposed paticipant of those events, would mention something about it to Geralt during their visit to Tesham Mutna.

ahh...you're one of those types of debater that nitpick feats and ignore what you don't like.

I am the Most knowledgeable Witcher debate on this site. in both Scenarios, Regis was killed by Peasants.

whether you use the books or the games, both seem to agree on one thing that Regis was stomped by peasants.

Regardless of if he drank to much blood is irrelevant, he still was beaten and killed which took him the better half of 50 years to regenerate.

You just accepted that it was in a Gwet game or whatever, then said it was never mentioned in the Witcher Games.

Why would it be mentioned in the Witcher games when this knowledge was only stated 2-3 years after the Witcher games. It called adding more lore to the game giving Regis more of background history.

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#9 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

Just an FYI Discriminating against members is how your thread gets missed Just Because you have a personal problem with how a member articulates his ideas in the debate.

Instead of asking an irrelevant question to a member who is only going to[insert opinion here] about why such information wasn't in the Witcher...maybe you should as the Developers of the game why instead.

Just a thought, underworld Vampires pretty much win. none of them were bested by humans or defeated by humans.

while we see humans on a daily bases defeat Vampires in the Witcher verse.

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#10 Posted by Xerolot (3047 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah. I don't think either that taking that feat from gwent seriously is good idea. I mean, I used some gwent feats in the past and overall I think they are cool but THIS one seems like extreme outlier in the "low" side. Regis lolstomped like 100 mercs in the game without being scratched and now he's not able to fight off some peasants. Just seems like a low showing, like Thanos being captured by the police (actually happend but nobody took it serious lol).

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#11 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerolot said:

Yeah. I don't think either that taking that feat from gwent seriously is good idea. I mean, I used some gwent feats in the past and overall I think they are cool but THIS one seems like extreme outlier in the "low" side. Regis lolstomped like 100 mercs in the game without being scratched and now he's not able to fight off some peasants. Just seems like a low showing, like Thanos being captured by the police (actually happend but nobody took it serious lol).

Even without using the "Gwent" Game, Regis still lost to Peasants in the past, before meeting Geralt. in Blood&wine he stated this that he was in a state where you humans would say is death. regardless of which continuity we use Regis still lost to peasants.

That was after he had learned his lesson after being defeated and needing 50 years to regenerate.

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#12 Posted by Gaoron (9934 posts) - - Show Bio

What are Underworld vampires feats? Higher vampires in Witcher move at FTE speeds to a point they appear as teleporting, can wreck dozens of armored soldiers, have multi-ton strength (bruxas which are below higher vampires ripped steel cages by throwing humans into them) and can become intag by turning into mist on a whim. They also have low level TP IIRC and pretty good regen.

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#14 Posted by Xerolot (3047 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: Sure he was defeated by peasants. But I was always imaginating that he was completely drunk and unable of defending himself. Even in "Baptism of Fire" the most official and legit info we can get Regis said that he walked into a wall and was unconscious when they got him

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#15 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

What are Underworld vampires feats? Higher vampires in Witcher move at FTE speeds to a point they appear as teleporting, can wreck dozens of armored soldiers, have multi-ton strength (bruxas which are below higher vampires ripped steel cages by throwing humans into them) and can become intag by turning into mist on a whim. They also have low level TP IIRC and pretty good regen.

Marcus Corvinus was a skilled hand to hand Fighter and formidable, Before even being turned into a vampire.

so, before being a Vampire we can presume he at least comparable to skilled Guards in the Witcher verse. as a Vampire is a good margin above even Elder vampires like Viktor.

Michael and Selene Both Overpowered Viktor in their respected battles individually, Michael who is a Hybrid Vampire/Werewolf was overpowering Viktor who prior was the strongest Elder Vampire known to the Vampires. Selene came through and sliced his head off and defeated him.

Both of them Together couldn't even match Marcus Corvinus in strength, speed, or endurance. Marcus was able to lift a massive, solid stone door to reach William, pulling down a helicopter from mid-air using one of its cables.

Besting Hybrids like Michael and Selene in combat. He has a Higher form which enhances his already formidable strength, speed, and sense. on top of that, Marcus could move, fight and fly at great speeds that only a few could react to.

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#16 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerolot said:

@mygod000: Sure he was defeated by peasants. But I was always imaginating that he was completely drunk and unable of defending himself. Even in "Baptism of Fire" the most official and legit info we can get Regis said that he walked into a wall and was unconscious when they got him

I think it is more so have to do with Regis not really being a fighter and not knowing how to fight.

It makes no sense for a Vampire to be so weak that he can't defend himself against normal humans who are not even trained fighters. Being a vampire there is already a massively big difference in strength, speed, and all of the other sense over a human.

he ran into a Wall fighting Dettlaf and was perfectly fine, only after Dettlaf dropped Boulders on him was he out of the fight.

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#17 Posted by Xerolot (3047 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: Right. But there's also a difference between books and games that games increased their power level. But overall I think it's fair to assume that for whatever reason if he was drunk, young or unconscious it's a low showing and shouldn't really be considered in battleforum. It's just too different from his other showings like stomping 2 bruxas in seconds and others

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#18 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerolot said:

@mygod000: Right. But there's also a difference between books and games that games increased their power level. But overall I think it's fair to assume that for whatever reason if he was drunk, young or unconscious it's a low showing and shouldn't really be considered in battleforum. It's just too different from his other showings like stomping 2 bruxas in seconds and others

I understand that but just to give you an idea of how fast, Powerful the underworld verse actually is.

Loading Video...

Lucian as a Teenager was fast enough that he could fight multiple Trained Vampire Guards and Catch Arrows in mid-Air.

Lucian as a Teenager is doing things comparable to Geralt in Witcher 3 could do at his best. Geralt was able to best Both Regis and Dettlaf, so I see no difference here.

Rise of the Lycans Viktor>>>>>>Teenager Lucian>Arrows

Viktor in Underworld 1>>>Rise of the Lycans Viktor.

Viktor was at his strongest in UnderWorld 1 and Basically had lived for over 1500 years. Marcus Corvinus is the First ever, Vampire has lived at least 100+ more years than Viktor.

Both Michael and Selene near the End of underworld 1>Viktor at his strongest.

Neither of them could do anything to Marcus Corvinus until Selene Drank the blood from Marcus Father and gained a massive boost to the point she can not only best him in base form but match him in his transformed state.

I will put it this way Marcus was good enough that he could Solo an entire Vampire coven that was armed with guns.

Now, if a normal Teenage Lucian is fast enough to react and Catch Arrows in mid-air while not even in his prime then I see nothing from the Witcher Side that says they could speed blitz them.

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#19 Posted by ParagonNate (4661 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy: Does incapacitation count as a win? Otherwise I don't see how Victor and Markus can keep up with the Witcherverse vamps regen.

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#20 Posted by Gaoron (9934 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000:

Thanks for the feats but I don't think they are enough to beat higher vampires from Witcher, even bruxas would be a tough match up for them imo

Also:

Lucian as a Teenager is doing things comparable to Geralt in Witcher 3 could do at his best. Geralt was able to best Both Regis and Dettlaf, so I see no difference here.

Geralt was timing crossbow bolts (faster than arrows) way before his prime at Witcher 3 in one of the first books "The Last Wish"

No Caption Provided

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#21 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

@mygod000:

Thanks for the feats but I don't think they are enough to beat higher vampires from Witcher, even bruxas would be a tough match up for them imo

Also:

Lucian as a Teenager is doing things comparable to Geralt in Witcher 3 could do at his best. Geralt was able to best Both Regis and Dettlaf, so I see no difference here.

Geralt was timing crossbow bolts (faster than arrows) way before his prime at Witcher 3 in one of the first books "The Last Wish"

No Caption Provided

That nice, Teenage Lucian was doing the same while he was much younger.

He wasn't just Timing them he was catching them while battling 4 other Vampire Guards...so how are they not fast enough, when Geralt who was virtually doing what a Teenage Lycan can do and was besting these Vampires you say Viktor and Marcus can't beat?

If you looked at the video, Lucian was catching Crossbow Bolts, again while only being a teenager. your post is pretty illogical when Geralt bested Dettlaf and Regis...when his best Speed feat is of that of what a teenage young boy Lycan.

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#22 Posted by ParagonNate (4661 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: As a reference point for Viktor and Marcus here's Selene, a much younger and far less powerful vampire stomping a group of normal humans. Will get a list of feats and such for the older vampires in a bit.

Loading Video...

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#23 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy: Does incapacitation count as a win? Otherwise I don't see how Victor and Markus can keep up with the Witcherverse vamps regen.

That is how verse Threads work, Win through either ko or Death.

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#24 Posted by ParagonNate (4661 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: Except the op explicitly states death as the win condition, which I don't think is even a possibility unless an Underworld vamps bite and feeding magically equals the Witcherwerse vamps.

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#25 Edited by Reddsevil34 (284 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate said:

@mygod000: Except the op explicitly states death as the win condition, which I don't think is even a possibility unless an Underworld vamps bite and feeding magically equals the Witcherwerse vamps.

What was the purpose of making the thread If they were going to make it so one team has no chance of killing the other team?

if either Viktor or Marcus decapitates or disembodies Regis or Dettlaf then it would take them Regis and Dettlaf 50 years to fully regenerate. it doesn't make sense from a verse Battle perspective for them to sit there and wait for them to regenerate.

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#27 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by AotD (660 posts) - - Show Bio

probably witcher team

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#29 Posted by phillip33 (4585 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: vilgefortz also stomped geralt twice, so that’s not a low showing at all.

I’d side with the Witcher vamps.

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#30 Posted by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

If you want instant replies to your thread you should call me out. I am one of the most knowledgeable when it comes to Witcher Verse.

OT: underworld Vampires win in a stomp. Vampires in the Witcher verse are not really all that great of fighters.

To give more Context, and a proper example, a vampire horde led by Regis and his girlfriend attacked the tiny village of Fox Hollow in Toussaint. Not only the hastily assembled peasants fight back the horde, they actually took the fight to the vampires' castle of Tesham Mutna and slaughtered every single one of the hundreds of vampires in the castle.

only Regis escaped due to higher vampiric regen, but he still got cut into thousands of small pieces and each piece was buried deep underground randomly all over Toussaint. He eventually regenerated after a hundred years or so, but the entire ordeal was so horrible and utterly humiliating that he swore never to drink blood ever again and become a good person, just to note the peasants were extremely drunk and armed only with peasant tools like scythes, sickles, pitchforks, etc.

Marcus Corvinus and Viktor would never get soloed by Peasants no matter how many there were.

^^^ This

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#31 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

After re-Watching Underworld I can firmly say Viktor is much stronger than I thought.

Vampires naturally Are much stronger and Faster than Lycans while they are in there base, but once they transform, they are much stronger than Vampires.

Evidence of this is the fact Lycan are much fewer in numbers compared to Vampires yet all their battles are extremely close and struggle.

Lycans are strong enough to break throw solid Concrete.

Viktor is able to casually Kill Lycans, Transformed or not with utter ease.

Loading Video...

Loading Video...

Viktor is able to easily throw his victims through Solid Concrete.

Loading Video...

Michael, after he gained Both Lycan/Vampire powers and became a hybrid, was casually able to Blitz Viktor during their fight few times, Viktor still was able to somewhat keep up and had Michael beat at the end.

Viktor>=Michael( after he became a hybrid)

Marcus Corvinus>>>Viktor.

Dettlaff and Regis's speed is not going to blitz a Guy who casually beat a Stronger Michael that was blitzing Viktor.

Viktor has fought Wars and is a actually a skilled combatant, while Regis and Dettlaf are no fighters what so ever.

So skill easily goes to Marcus and Viktor as well as speed. Their strength is comparable, but it all comes down to skill and Like I was saying before Marcus and Viktor are just far more skilled so they win hand down.

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#32 Posted by the_wspanialy (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

ahh...you're one of those types of debater that nitpick feats and ignore what you don't like.

I'm one of those types of debater that follows facts and logic. So when I readabout a horde of vampires (led by a higher vampire) repelled by a bunch of peasants, while witnessing a lesser vampire soloing a unit of armored and experienced knights, I remain sceptical.

You're the one who ignored an information from a book (the highest form of canon) in favor of an information of questionable credibility from a card game simply beceuse it suited your "argument". You're using two showings (the first one being questionable in it's entirety, the second one being highly circumstancial) and trying to misinform everyone that this is Regis' standard level of combat performance, despite the fact that in Blood and Wine we can actually see him shredding scores of armored sellswords to pieces or soloing two bruxas with no issue whatsoever. That's blatantly disingenuous.

I am the Most knowledgeable Witcher debate on this site.

Ok.

Regardless of if he drank to much blood is irrelevant, he still was beaten and killed which took him the better half of 50 years to regenerate.

I suppose the fact he lost consciousness (meaning he was not able to defend himself in the first place) is irrelevant as well?

You just accepted that it was in a Gwet game or whatever, then said it was never mentioned in the Witcher Games.

GWENT: The Witcher Card Game is not a part of Witcher game trilogy. It's a standalone product.

Why would it be mentioned in the Witcher games when this knowledge was only stated 2-3 years after the Witcher games. It called adding more lore to the game giving Regis more of background history.

When the lore in question outright contradicts higher source, you go with the higher source. It's that simple. Regis (who is 435 years old at the time of The Witcher 3) dropped drinking after the accident which occured in his youth. Yet somehow in 1217 (at the age of 378) he led a hord of vampires to attack some random village? Right...

@mygod000 said:

Just an FYI Discriminating against members is how your thread gets missed Just Because you have a personal problem with how a member articulates his ideas in the debate.

Instead of asking an irrelevant question to a member who is only going to[insert opinion here] about why such information wasn't in the Witcher...maybe you should as the Developers of the game why instead.

Just a thought, underworld Vampires pretty much win. none of them were bested by humans or defeated by humans.

while we see humans on a daily bases defeat Vampires in the Witcher verse.

Since when pointing out a blatant cherry picking is a sign of discrimination? Playing victim does not help your case.

You deliberately ignore already established lore that puts vampires well beyond humans. You deliberately ignore context of Regis' "defeat". You deliberately ignore that in Blood and Wine Regis shredds armored sellswords to pieces left and right. You deliberately ignore facts and logic.

Are you going to pretend the Purge never happened? Or that Michael has never been captured by humans?

Loading Video...

Though I'm sure you'll make some half-assed explanation why this does not count as a defeat (while decapitation of uncounscious Regis totally does).

Waiting for examples of humans dealing with vampires "on a daily bases". Preferably from sources of actual credibility (books, sourcebooks, games from the actual trilogy, et. cet.), rather than from a card game.

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#33 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: Selene is not "Far Younger and less powerful" Than Viktor and Marcus. She outright Killed both of them and I'm pretty sure she also got an Amp in between fighting them and that scene so, at the very least she is slightly below them in power at this point. Once she gets her Superpowers from the anti-goth Vampires she surpasses any Vampire or Lycan in history as well, so.

OT: I think the Witcher Vampires narrowly win after a long fight, mostly due to Regeneration and the raw power of Dettlaff's true form, but like I said its a good fight.

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#34 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: Selene is not "Far Younger and less powerful" Than Viktor and Marcus. She outright Killed both of them and I'm pretty sure she also got an Amp in between fighting them and that scene so, at the very least she is slightly below them in power at this point. Once she gets her Superpowers from the anti-goth Vampires she surpasses any Vampire or Lycan in history as well, so.

OT: I think the Witcher Vampires narrowly win after a long fight, mostly due to Regeneration and the raw power of Dettlaff's true form, but like I said its a good fight.

we are Talking about underworld 1 Selene who was far less powerful than Viktor. She Killed Viktor due to the Latter being distracted with killing Micheal.

she just so happened to catch him off guard. What you are talking about is the Blood War underworld which is years and years after underworld 1 where Selene has gone through many power-ups. Viktor was far weaker than Marcus, and As I showed Viktor could keep up with a Hybrid that was blitzing him and would instantly kill Selene at that time.

Selene needs High powered Guns filled with silver nitrate to take down Transformed Lycan, While Viktor can do it with his bare hands and casually at that.

that is a notice Huge Difference in power and strength. Marcus was casually Soloing and Embarrassing the Guy that that was Blitzing Viktor and forcing him into the biggest fight of his life. Selene Beat him at the end AFTER taking blood from Marcus's Father which made her literally the strongest Vampire, Before that she was just a fly to him.

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#35 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy said:
@mygod000 said:

ahh...you're one of those types of debater that nitpick feats and ignore what you don't like.

I'm one of those types of debater that follows facts and logic. So when I readabout a horde of vampires (led by a higher vampire) repelled by a bunch of peasants, while witnessing a lesser vampire soloing a unit of armored and experienced knights, I remain sceptical.

You're the one who ignored an information from a book (the highest form of canon) in favor of an information of questionable credibility from a card game simply beceuse it suited your "argument". You're using two showings (the first one being questionable in it's entirety, the second one being highly circumstancial) and trying to misinform everyone that this is Regis' standard level of combat performance, despite the fact that in Blood and Wine we can actually see him shredding scores of armored sellswords to pieces or soloing two bruxas with no issue whatsoever. That's blatantly disingenuous.

I am the Most knowledgeable Witcher debate on this site.

Ok.

Regardless of if he drank to much blood is irrelevant, he still was beaten and killed which took him the better half of 50 years to regenerate.

I suppose the fact he lost consciousness (meaning he was not able to defend himself in the first place) is irrelevant as well?

You just accepted that it was in a Gwet game or whatever, then said it was never mentioned in the Witcher Games.

GWENT: The Witcher Card Game is not a part of Witcher game trilogy. It's a standalone product.

Why would it be mentioned in the Witcher games when this knowledge was only stated 2-3 years after the Witcher games. It called adding more lore to the game giving Regis more of background history.

When the lore in question outright contradicts higher source, you go with the higher source. It's that simple. Regis (who is 435 years old at the time of The Witcher 3) dropped drinking after the accident which occured in his youth. Yet somehow in 1217 (at the age of 378) he led a hord of vampires to attack some random village? Right...

@mygod000 said:

Just an FYI Discriminating against members is how your thread gets missed Just Because you have a personal problem with how a member articulates his ideas in the debate.

Instead of asking an irrelevant question to a member who is only going to[insert opinion here] about why such information wasn't in the Witcher...maybe you should as the Developers of the game why instead.

Just a thought, underworld Vampires pretty much win. none of them were bested by humans or defeated by humans.

while we see humans on a daily bases defeat Vampires in the Witcher verse.

Since when pointing out a blatant cherry picking is a sign of discrimination? Playing victim does not help your case.

You deliberately ignore already established lore that puts vampires well beyond humans. You deliberately ignore context of Regis' "defeat". You deliberately ignore that in Blood and Wine Regis shredds armored sellswords to pieces left and right. You deliberately ignore facts and logic.

Are you going to pretend the Purge never happened? Or that Michael has never been captured by humans?

Loading Video...

Though I'm sure you'll make some half-assed explanation why this does not count as a defeat (while decapitation of uncounscious Regis totally does).

Waiting for examples of humans dealing with vampires "on a daily bases". Preferably from sources of actual credibility (books, sourcebooks, games from the actual trilogy, et. cet.), rather than from a card game.

The people that Captured Micheal would solo a guard unite in Witcher 3 unless you think Swords>>Guns?

Also, Underworld universe is far far more advanced than the Witcher Verse where they are still using pitchforks, swords, and arrows to fight. they have Weapons that takedown Vampires and Lycans. so, I don't your point here.

I was just speaking facts. the Books follow the Game but not the other way around. the only thing the Witcher Verse has is far better regeneration. regardless, speed seems to be around par, and like I was saying the Underworld Vampires are far better-skilled fighters.

Regis was stomped by mages like Vilgaforts in hand to hand combat without him using magic. now, isn't Vilgaforts a human? was he enchanted by mutations like Geralt or any of the Witchers?

I just speaking facts, I love the Witcher verse... I am a fan of the series I just speak the truth on the verse.

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#36 Posted by ParagonNate (4661 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: Selene is not "Far Younger and less powerful" Than Viktor and Marcus. She outright Killed both of them and I'm pretty sure she also got an Amp in between fighting them and that scene so, at the very least she is slightly below them in power at this point. Once she gets her Superpowers from the anti-goth Vampires she surpasses any Vampire or Lycan in history as well, so.

OT: I think the Witcher Vampires narrowly win after a long fight, mostly due to Regeneration and the raw power of Dettlaff's true form, but like I said its a good fight.

In the scene with the cops she is in fact, a normal vampire. She had not gotten any amps at that point. And she's at least several centuries younger than Viktor and Marcus. She killed Viktor because Michael had him distracted, he would have ripped her apart otherwise. She killed Marcus thanks to being amped by drinking the blood of Alexander, she would have died nearly as fast as Kraven and his goons, all of which were Death Dealers like her (minus Kraven who was a politician). She is, in fact, far younger and weaker than them minus her amps. Wither her amps, she's stronger, which was the entire point of them.

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#37 Posted by the_wspanialy (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

The people that Captured Micheal would solo a guard unite in Witcher 3 unless you think Swords>>Guns?

Also, Underworld universe is far far more advanced than the Witcher Verse where they are still using pitchforks, swords, and arrows to fight. they have Weapons that takedown Vampires and Lycans. so, I don't your point here.

I was just speaking facts. the Books follow the Game but not the other way around. the only thing the Witcher Verse has is far better regeneration. regardless, speed seems to be around par, and like I was saying the Underworld Vampires are far better-skilled fighters.

The tech gap is irrelevant.Michael was fully aware of what was happening around him and could actually defend himself (unlike Regis, who was caught off-guard while being uncounscious). He still got stomped. Therefore (according to your logic), he was defeated.

Also, claiming that Dettlaff is "no fighter what so ever" is simply not true:

When in his two-legged form, Dettlaff strikes in surprising and unique ways, so one must be extremely alert and attentive. His razor-sharp claws, wielded with great strength and precision, are his chief weapons, yet he can also wield weapons of human devising with extraordinary skill.

Dettlaff's Bestiary entry

"Fighting in wars" is wage as hell, especially since we don't wheter Marcus or Viktor actively fought on the frontlines. Not to mention we don't even know how often and for how long Marcus and Viktor enter their hibernation state.

The fact that Dettlaff was able to give an excellent fight to Geralt, a swordsman far above anyone in Underworld universe, speaks for itself. Quality > quantity.

Regis scalles to Dettlaff. He was able to briefly hold his own against him, despite holding back. It's also important to remember that during Blood and Wine, Regis still hasn't fully recovered from the injuries he sustained at the hands of Vilgefortz:

Regis: In somewhat better shape now, as you can see. Hardly peak form, mind you, but where I human, folk would think me a demigod, I daresay.

Blood and Wine

I don't necessarily claim that Dettlaff and Regis > Marcus and Viktor skillwise, but saying that they can't fight for shit is simply disingenuous.

Regis was stomped by mages like Vilgaforts in hand to hand combat without him using magic. now, isn't Vilgaforts a human? was he enchanted by mutations like Geralt or any of the Witchers?

Is that so?

The sorcerer had a weapon in his arsenal for every occasion and for every opponent. Even a vampire.

The hands that seized Regis glowed like red hot iron. The vampire screamed. Geralt also screamed, seeing the sorcerer literally tearing Regis apart.

The Lady of the Lake

Vilgefortz was the most powerful mage in Witcherverse at that point in time. In the universe where powerful mages are capable of subjugating genies, entities capable of literally moving mountains. "The most knowledgeable Witcher debater on this site" would know it.

So no, Vilgefortz is not mere human. And using this to lowball Regis is, again, disingenuous.

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#38 Posted by FinalKingThanos (3029 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure who I pick to win yet but there seems to be a lot of false things flying around with the underworld power levels.

Markus and Viktor were similar in strength but Viktor was actually a skilled warlord and had armies etc also William hidden as leverage and to keep his pure rabid Lycan genes to run loose.

Markus is only above Viktor once he drinks werewolf blood and becomes a hybrid / greater Vampire again he and Michael are only able to do this due to having the Corvinus blood line.

Selene becomes much stronger and somewhat elder / hybrid when she drinks blood of the original immortal himself.

I would say from the original Trilogy the power levels are somewhat close this isn’t the outright ranking as they could still all able to kill one another -

1. Michael Corvin - hes the one true hybrid of both species and Corvinus blood descendant and was younger and still testing his limits he could return from death more or less also.

2. Selene with the Corvinus blood and her unequal skill.

3. William true lycan & Hybrid Markus

4. Lucian & Viktor

5. Selene - she was already the best death dealer by that point.

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#39 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy said:
@mygod000 said:

The people that Captured Micheal would solo a guard unite in Witcher 3 unless you think Swords>>Guns?

Also, Underworld universe is far far more advanced than the Witcher Verse where they are still using pitchforks, swords, and arrows to fight. they have Weapons that takedown Vampires and Lycans. so, I don't your point here.

I was just speaking facts. the Books follow the Game but not the other way around. the only thing the Witcher Verse has is far better regeneration. regardless, speed seems to be around par, and like I was saying the Underworld Vampires are far better-skilled fighters.

The tech gap is irrelevant.Michael was fully aware of what was happening around him and could actually defend himself (unlike Regis, who was caught off-guard while being uncounscious). He still got stomped. Therefore (according to your logic), he was defeated.

Also, claiming that Dettlaff is "no fighter what so ever" is simply not true:

When in his two-legged form, Dettlaff strikes in surprising and unique ways, so one must be extremely alert and attentive. His razor-sharp claws, wielded with great strength and precision, are his chief weapons, yet he can also wield weapons of human devising with extraordinary skill.

Dettlaff's Bestiary entry

"Fighting in wars" is wage as hell, especially since we don't wheter Marcus or Viktor actively fought on the frontlines. Not to mention we don't even know how often and for how long Marcus and Viktor enter their hibernation state.

The fact that Dettlaff was able to give an excellent fight to Geralt, a swordsman far above anyone in Underworld universe, speaks for itself. Quality > quantity.

Regis scalles to Dettlaff. He was able to briefly hold his own against him, despite holding back. It's also important to remember that during Blood and Wine, Regis still hasn't fully recovered from the injuries he sustained at the hands of Vilgefortz:

Regis: In somewhat better shape now, as you can see. Hardly peak form, mind you, but where I human, folk would think me a demigod, I daresay.

Blood and Wine

I don't necessarily claim that Dettlaff and Regis > Marcus and Viktor skillwise, but saying that they can't fight for shit is simply disingenuous.

Regis was stomped by mages like Vilgaforts in hand to hand combat without him using magic. now, isn't Vilgaforts a human? was he enchanted by mutations like Geralt or any of the Witchers?

Is that so?

The sorcerer had a weapon in his arsenal for every occasion and for every opponent. Even a vampire.

The hands that seized Regis glowed like red hot iron. The vampire screamed. Geralt also screamed, seeing the sorcerer literally tearing Regis apart.

The Lady of the Lake

Vilgefortz was the most powerful mage in Witcherverse at that point in time. In the universe where powerful mages are capable of subjugating genies, entities capable of literally moving mountains. "The most knowledgeable Witcher debater on this site" would know it.

So no, Vilgefortz is not mere human. And using this to lowball Regis is, again, disingenuous.

The tech gap is irrelevant.Michael was fully aware of what was happening around him and could actually defend himself (unlike Regis, who was caught off-guard while being uncounscious). He still got stomped. Therefore (according to your logic), he was defeated.

Also, claiming that Dettlaff is "no fighter what so ever" is simply not true:

so, now Having far Superior tech doesn't matter? LMFAO good to know that you think like that in vs battles on here.

"Fighting in wars" is wage as hell, especially since we don't wheter Marcus or Viktor actively fought on the frontlines. Not to mention we don't even know how often and for how long Marcus and Viktor enter their hibernation state.

The fact that Dettlaff was able to give an excellent fight to Geralt, a swordsman far above anyone in Underworld universe, speaks for itself. Quality > quantity.

Regis scalles to Dettlaff. He was able to briefly hold his own against him, despite holding back. It's also important to remember that during Blood and Wine, Regis still hasn't fully recovered from the injuries he sustained at the hands of Vilgefortz:

Geralt has been beaten and injured by people less than Peak human before. You do realize that Geralt years after blood and Wine nearly died fighting a Bruxa right? by the name of Orianna.

I don't necessarily claim that Dettlaff and Regis > Marcus and Viktor skillwise, but saying that they can't fight for shit is simply disingenuous.

My point was they are far less Skilled than the underworld Vampires we are debating so still my point stands.

Is that so?

The sorcerer had a weapon in his arsenal for every occasion and for every opponent. Even a vampire.

The hands that seized Regis glowed like red hot iron. The vampire screamed. Geralt also screamed, seeing the sorcerer literally tearing Regis apart.

The Lady of the Lake

He used Magic to kill him, yes. My point was he didn't use magic during the fight when Vilgefortz burned Regis at that point the fight was pretty much already over and done with, it pretty much implied that he beat Geralt whole team in melee. after he stomped Regis he then burned his face and melted him into a puddle.

Vilgefortz was the most powerful mage in Witcherverse at that point in time. In the universe where powerful mages are capable of subjugating genies, entities capable of literally moving mountains. "The most knowledgeable Witcher debater on this site" would know it.

So no, Vilgefortz is not mere human. And using this to lowball Regis is, again, disingenuous.

so, According to you Mages in the Witcher are not human? SMH...bruh, so what form of thing are they? we are not talking about their powers I already know that Mages in the witcher are the most powerful things under Gaunter O'Dimm and have said this before. they are humans, still they don't have any mutation to enhance them as Geralt does, they are not a vampire like Regis and have regeneration from almost any wound...they are mere Human, they just have powerful magic.

My point again, He beat Geralt in melee as well as Regis, go read the fight again then come back to me. He is a Druid which who are basically humans.

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#40 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure who I pick to win yet but there seems to be a lot of false things flying around with the underworld power levels.

Markus and Viktor were similar in strength but Viktor was actually a skilled warlord and had armies etc also William hidden as leverage and to keep his pure rabid Lycan genes to run loose.

Markus is only above Viktor once he drinks werewolf blood and becomes a hybrid / greater Vampire again he and Michael are only able to do this due to having the Corvinus blood line.

Selene becomes much stronger and somewhat elder / hybrid when she drinks blood of the original immortal himself.

I would say from the original Trilogy the power levels are somewhat close this isn’t the outright ranking as they could still all able to kill one another -

1. Michael Corvin - hes the one true hybrid of both species and Corvinus blood descendant and was younger and still testing his limits he could return from death more or less also.

2. Selene with the Corvinus blood and her unequal skill.

3. William true lycan & Hybrid Markus

4. Lucian & Viktor

5. Selene - she was already the best death dealer by that point.

Marcus could have gotten even stronger if he drank the blood of his father.

To your ranking, I agree. Marcus was actually stronger than Viktor those, but like you said Viktor was a skilled Warlord, on top of that he had an army backing him up so Marcus couldn't really do much against him and Viktor on many occasions undermined him.

there is a pretty big gap between them those Like you said Selene was just an average vampire, but the best of the Death Dealers by the time of Underworld 1 movie. All the Vampires where Scared of Viktor for good reason since he was Among the strongest, and could take down transformed Lycans with his Bare-Hands...while the Average vampire needs Guns with special chemicals specific made to take down Lycans to kill them.

still pretty noticeable Gap in power.

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#41 Posted by the_wspanialy (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

so, now Having far Superior tech doesn't matter? LMFAO good to know that you think like that in vs battles on here.

I guess I was too subtle in my previous post to convey my point. Very well. I'll be blunt.

In your words:

  • Regis gets decapitated while uncounscious = Regis got totally stomped! He can't fight for shit!
  • Michael gets shot while fully aware of his surroundings and ready to fight = That doesn't count! It was super tech!

Thank you for confirming that context matters to you only when it suits your argument.

Geralt has been beaten and injured by people less than Peak human before. You do realize that Geralt years after blood and Wine nearly died fighting a Bruxa right? by the name of Orianna.

Ignoring the fact that bruxa is no "less than Peak human" by any stretch of imagination, I'll wait for a proof that the trailer you're refereing to is supposed to be canon, instead of being, you know... marketing material.

Not that it matters anyway. During Blood and Wine Geralt fought with bruxa on at least three separate occasions and won every single time. In fact, one of those bruxas was backed up by an alp. Consistency is a thing.

My point was they are far less Skilled than the underworld Vampires we are debating so still my point stands.

So far you haven't presented anything suggesting that Underworld vampires completely outmatch Witcher vampires skillwise. Stomping single Lycans is hardly better than Regis (the weaker member of team Witcher) owning two bruxas. Being more skilled than completely skilless Michael is also not much of an accomplishment. You haven't presented a single skill feat for Marcus.

Not to mention other things that Witcherverse vampires have at their dispossal and that you conviniently forgot to adress.

He used Magic to kill him, yes. My point was he didn't use magic during the fight when Vilgefortz burned Regis at that point the fight was pretty much already over and done with, it pretty much implied that he beat Geralt whole team in melee. after he stomped Regis he then burned his face and melted him into a puddle.

What the hell are you talking about?

Vilgefortz was throwing spells left and right for almost entire fight. He never physically strucked Yennefer and engaged Geralt in melee only at the very end, when both Yen and Regis were out of the picture. He and Regis never had a proper, melee fight. Regis jumped at Vilgefortz, he infused his hands with magical fire. The pain paralyzed Regis so much that he wasn't able to fight back. Full quote below:

With an incredible, lightning fast, tiger-like bound, he fell at the sorcerer and grabbed him by the throat. His fangs flashed.

Vilgefortz howled in horror and rage. For a moment it seemed as though it would be the end of him. But that was an illusion. The sorcerer had a weapon in his arsenal for every occasion and for every opponent. Even a vampire.

The hands that seized Regis glowed like red hot iron. The vampire screamed. Geralt also screamed, seeing the sorcerer literally tearing Regis apart. He lept to his aid, but he wasn't fast enough. Vilgefortz pushed the mutilated vampire against the column and shot a white fire from close-up from both hands.

The Lady of the Lake

so, According to you Mages in the Witcher are not human? SMH...bruh, so what form of thing are they? we are not talking about their powers I already know that Mages in the witcher are the most powerful things under Gaunter O'Dimm and have said this before. they are humans, still they don't have any mutation to enhance them as Geralt does, they are not a vampire like Regis and have regeneration from almost any wound...they are mere Human, they just have powerful magic.

My point again, He beat Geralt in melee as well as Regis, go read the fight again then come back to me. He is a Druid which who are basically humans.

Yes, they have powerful magic. Which they can use to amp their physical stats, like Vilgefortz did when he infused his hands with fire and amped his strength to "tear Regis apart". Unless you suggesting that a regular human in Witcherverse is strong enough to tear apart a higher vampire...

And with that, I'm oficially done adressing your posts. Its clearly getting us nowhere.

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#42 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy said:
@mygod000 said:

so, now Having far Superior tech doesn't matter? LMFAO good to know that you think like that in vs battles on here.

I guess I was too subtle in my previous post to convey my point. Very well. I'll be blunt.

In your words:

  • Regis gets decapitated while uncounscious = Regis got totally stomped! He can't fight for shit!
  • Michael gets shot while fully aware of his surroundings and ready to fight = That doesn't count! It was super tech!

Thank you for confirming that context matters to you only when it suits your argument.

Geralt has been beaten and injured by people less than Peak human before. You do realize that Geralt years after blood and Wine nearly died fighting a Bruxa right? by the name of Orianna.

Ignoring the fact that bruxa is no "less than Peak human" by any stretch of imagination, I'll wait for a proof that the trailer you're refereing to is supposed to be canon, instead of being, you know... marketing material.

Not that it matters anyway. During Blood and Wine Geralt fought with bruxa on at least three separate occasions and won every single time. In fact, one of those bruxas was backed up by an alp. Consistency is a thing.

My point was they are far less Skilled than the underworld Vampires we are debating so still my point stands.

So far you haven't presented anything suggesting that Underworld vampires completely outmatch Witcher vampires skillwise. Stomping single Lycans is hardly better than Regis (the weaker member of team Witcher) owning two bruxas. Being more skilled than completely skilless Michael is also not much of an accomplishment. You haven't presented a single skill feat for Marcus.

Not to mention other things that Witcherverse vampires have at their dispossal and that you conviniently forgot to adress.

He used Magic to kill him, yes. My point was he didn't use magic during the fight when Vilgefortz burned Regis at that point the fight was pretty much already over and done with, it pretty much implied that he beat Geralt whole team in melee. after he stomped Regis he then burned his face and melted him into a puddle.

What the hell are you talking about?

Vilgefortz was throwing spells left and right for almost entire fight. He never physically strucked Yennefer and engaged Geralt in melee only at the very end, when both Yen and Regis were out of the picture. He and Regis never had a proper, melee fight. Regis jumped at Vilgefortz, he infused his hands with magical fire. The pain paralyzed Regis so much that he wasn't able to fight back. Full quote below:

With an incredible, lightning fast, tiger-like bound, he fell at the sorcerer and grabbed him by the throat. His fangs flashed.

Vilgefortz howled in horror and rage. For a moment it seemed as though it would be the end of him. But that was an illusion. The sorcerer had a weapon in his arsenal for every occasion and for every opponent. Even a vampire.

The hands that seized Regis glowed like red hot iron. The vampire screamed. Geralt also screamed, seeing the sorcerer literally tearing Regis apart. He lept to his aid, but he wasn't fast enough. Vilgefortz pushed the mutilated vampire against the column and shot a white fire from close-up from both hands.

The Lady of the Lake

so, According to you Mages in the Witcher are not human? SMH...bruh, so what form of thing are they? we are not talking about their powers I already know that Mages in the witcher are the most powerful things under Gaunter O'Dimm and have said this before. they are humans, still they don't have any mutation to enhance them as Geralt does, they are not a vampire like Regis and have regeneration from almost any wound...they are mere Human, they just have powerful magic.

My point again, He beat Geralt in melee as well as Regis, go read the fight again then come back to me. He is a Druid which who are basically humans.

Yes, they have powerful magic. Which they can use to amp their physical stats, like Vilgefortz did when he infused his hands with fire and amped his strength to "tear Regis apart". Unless you suggesting that a regular human in Witcherverse is strong enough to tear apart a higher vampire...

And with that, I'm oficially done adressing your posts. Its clearly getting us nowhere.

You are being Very Hypocrital here. You are saying "context matters to you only when it suits your argument."

then using Reference from the game blood&wine, now you are asking me to prove that the Trailer is canon?

Geralt literally said right before he went to meet the unseen..."I'll come back for you one day." If we are going to question what is canon and not canon when you are using missions from blood&Wine in a game he stated he would come back to take her out then you might as well question the whole Blood&wine DLC and ask if we should count it as canon.

As of right now, nothing is a definitive win. You are one person telling me I am Wrong, saying I don't know what I talking about, and saying everyone should listen to you when you just tried to tell me Vilgefortz wasn't human.

So, what makes you right and Me wrong other than just your personal Opinion? Marcus destroyed Selene who destroys Peak humans with guns that are made to kill vampires and Lycans so what your point? take 20 of those Guys with Assult Rifles, AUGs with grenades and they would solo castle in the Witcher Verse, and a town.

all you did is Brought, Micheal low feats if we are going to do that then we can also count Geralt who died to a Peasant as well and this is canon as well. hell even during the Bad ending of Witcher 3 Geralt Dies to drowners.

Micheal isn't Viktor, he clearly didn't want to kill the Humans, again, these humans are far advanced humans with Tech that takes down Vampires and Lycans. Using that as an argument and a Negative against them is just sad, that is like Guards in Witcher verse using Weapons that takes down witchers. if we are going to be fair Witchers in the Witcher 3 have been captured by humans and used for experiments as well so again what is your point?

In the Witcher 3, you literally fight a Witcher that was captured and tortured by normal average humans for almost 50 days.

Stop using Double standards buddy...Like I said I know my Witcher Verse.

So far Nothing from Witcher side proves they are massively faster or stronger than UnderWorld Vampires. Both Vampires are able to break through Solid cement pretty easily, Both of them can Blitz Peak humans casually, and Vampires that are way Above Peak Humans as well. the skill Goes to the underworld Vampires since they have fought in Wars, while Dettlaf for the better half has not he has avoided Humans until Syanna.

Geralt was even Captured by Humans in Hearts of Stone DLC. until Gaunter O'Dimm saved him, had that not happened he was going to be killed by random Guards.

this is ridiculous that you are trying to give me crap, just because I won't Wank the Series, and jerk it off. Honesty should count for something. I am a fan of the games and series, but I am no wanker I speak the truth, and I give accurate knowledge about the series.

It's cool if you don't want to debate about it anymore, I guess it gets very strenuous wanking all the time. you have a good day.

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#43 Posted by the_wspanialy (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000:

Do I really want to beat a dead horse? I guess I do.

No Caption Provided

You are being Very Hypocrital here. You are saying "context matters to you only when it suits your argument."

then using Reference from the game blood&wine, now you are asking me to prove that the Trailer is canon?

Geralt literally said right before he went to meet the unseen..."I'll come back for you one day." If we are going to question what is canon and not canon when you are using missions from blood&Wine in a game he stated he would come back to take her out then you might as well question the whole Blood&wine DLC and ask if we should count it as canon.

It's called being honest. You should try that sometimes. Trully cathartic.

No proof then? Thought so.

The bruxa fights in Blood and Wine that I mentioned are mandatory. They have to occur in order to move the plot forward. Depending on the choices you make, Geralt may never discover Orianna's secret and the line you're refferencing may never been said.

As of right now, nothing is a definitive win. You are one person telling me I am Wrong, saying I don't know what I talking about, and saying everyone should listen to you when you just tried to tell me Vilgefortz wasn't human.

Never said you're wrong. I'm saying you purposefully twist facts/ignore context. Which you do. And I've never said that "everyone should listen to me". I would actualy love to see you quoting me saying that.

Since apparently you are too dense to understand my point I'll be as blant as I can: Yes, Vilgefortz is physicaly normal human (as far as we know). However, he can (and already has) use his magical power to amp his physicals. Unless you beleive that normal human can rip apart a higher vampire...

So, what makes you right and Me wrong other than just your personal Opinion? Marcus destroyed Selene who destroys Peak humans with guns that are made to kill vampires and Lycans so what your point? take 20 of those Guys with Assult Rifles, AUGs with grenades and they would solo castle in the Witcher Verse, and a town.

  1. The fact I don't cherry pick.
  2. The fact I don't twist facts or ignore context.
  3. The fact I provide quotes and sources.

Marcus has never outskilled Selene. The one time he "destroyed" her was with physicals.

Yes, guns and granades are going to be totally effective against genies. Would also love them trying that against a higher vampire in mist form. Or against high level mages capable tof reacting to lightning.

all you did is Brought, Micheal low feats if we are going to do that then we can also count Geralt who died to a Peasant as well and this is canon as well. hell even during the Bad ending of Witcher 3 Geralt Dies to drowners.

Funny, you've done exactly the same when you brought Regis' low feats and conviniently ignore both the rest of his feats and common sense. Hypocrisy so much? The difference is that I did so merely to point out your cherry picking, while you used it as an actual argument.

Indeed, he died to a peasant. And, as I've expected, you ignored context. AGAIN. Let's see what the book has to say about that, shall we?

- Mercy! - an unkept young man with crazy eyes fell on his knees in front of him - Spare me!

Geralt spared him, stopped the movement of his arm and sword, using the momentum intended for the blow to spin away. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw the unkept youth sprint to his feet and saw what he was holding. Geralt interupted the turn to spin back the other way. But he was stuck in the crowd. He was stuck in the crowd for a split second.

All he could do was watch as the three-fanged fork flew towards him.

The Lady of the Lake

Geralt's morals combined with his restricted maneuverability. I guess you've never been on any concert whatsoever?

Has it occured to you that Geralt wanted to die, meaning he wasn't even fighting back? He was still sitting with his head in his hands when the monsters entered the house. Btw. have you seen the body? No? Didn't think so.

Micheal isn't Viktor, he clearly didn't want to kill the Humans, again, these humans are far advanced humans with Tech that takes down Vampires and Lycans. Using that as an argument and a Negative against them is just sad, that is like Guards in Witcher verse using Weapons that takes down witchers. if we are going to be fair Witchers in the Witcher 3 have been captured by humans and used for experiments as well so again what is your point?

So what, Michael allowed himself to get shot? Or is he uncapable of disposing humans without killing them?

Oh, and Kiyan has been captured by Ireneus var Steingard, a mage powerful enough to conjure storms. Due to their power, mages can be hardly qualified as mere humans. Not to mention that Ireneus had both element of surprise and extensive prep time before the abduction:

He's cautious. I won't be able to put him down with a casually placed poison apple. Guess I'll have to zonk him out with a spell and whisk him away via teleport.

(...)

Very high level of resistance to psionic spells. Time needed for full penetration of his nervous system – a half an hour at least.

A few more moments and the witcher will be ready for transport. Now I just need to wipe our tracks. Perhaps a little change in the weather?

Mage's notes

In the Witcher 3, you literally fight a Witcher that was captured and tortured by normal average humans for almost 50 days.

Adressed and debunked. Moving on.

Stop using Double standards buddy...Like I said I know my Witcher Verse.

Using double standards is your forte, "buddy".

I guess that's why I need to correct you on practically every step.

Geralt was even Captured by Humans in Hearts of Stone DLC. until Gaunter O'Dimm saved him, had that not happened he was going to be killed by random Guards.

Indeed he was. After being literally showered in entrails of the giant, venomous frog and loosing fucking consciousness .

You ignored context beceuse it suited your "argument". AGAIN. And you have the nerve to accuse someone of double standards? Pathetic.

this is ridiculous that you are trying to give me crap, just because I won't Wank the Series, and jerk it off. Honesty should count for something. I am a fan of the games and series, but I am no wanker I speak the truth, and I give accurate knowledge about the series.

Indeed, this is ridiculous.

Lol, I don't need to "give you crap", you're doing a fine work yourself.

"Accurate knowledge"? Keep telling yourself that. Eventually you'll convince yourself.

It's cool if you don't want to debate about it anymore, I guess it gets very strenuous wanking all the time. you have a good day.

Debunking you is fun and all, but it is indeed becoming wearisome. Besides, there's really no point arguing with someone in denial.

Allow me to congratulate you. Over my three years on Comic Vine I've never encountered someone soo utterly disingenuous and sellective in his choice of arguments. And your delusion of greatness is adorable.

You sir are truly something else.

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#44 Edited by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy said:

@mygod000:

Do I really want to beat a dead horse? I guess I do.

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You are being Very Hypocrital here. You are saying "context matters to you only when it suits your argument."

then using Reference from the game blood&wine, now you are asking me to prove that the Trailer is canon?

Geralt literally said right before he went to meet the unseen..."I'll come back for you one day." If we are going to question what is canon and not canon when you are using missions from blood&Wine in a game he stated he would come back to take her out then you might as well question the whole Blood&wine DLC and ask if we should count it as canon.

It's called being honest. You should try that sometimes. Trully cathartic.

No proof then? Thought so.

The bruxa fights in Blood and Wine that I mentioned are mandatory. They have to occur in order to move the plot forward. Depending on the choices you make, Geralt may never discover Orianna's secret and the line you're refferencing may never been said.

As of right now, nothing is a definitive win. You are one person telling me I am Wrong, saying I don't know what I talking about, and saying everyone should listen to you when you just tried to tell me Vilgefortz wasn't human.

Never said you're wrong. I'm saying you purposefully twist facts/ignore context. Which you do. And I've never said that "everyone should listen to me". I would actualy love to see you quoting me saying that.

Since apparently you are too dense to understand my point I'll be as blant as I can: Yes, Vilgefortz is physicaly normal human (as far as we know). However, he can (and already has) use his magical power to amp his physicals. Unless you beleive that normal human can rip apart a higher vampire...

So, what makes you right and Me wrong other than just your personal Opinion? Marcus destroyed Selene who destroys Peak humans with guns that are made to kill vampires and Lycans so what your point? take 20 of those Guys with Assult Rifles, AUGs with grenades and they would solo castle in the Witcher Verse, and a town.

  1. The fact I don't cherry pick.
  2. The fact I don't twist facts or ignore context.
  3. The fact I provide quotes and sources.

Marcus has never outskilled Selene. The one time he "destroyed" her was with physicals.

Yes, guns and granades are going to be totally effective against genies. Would also love them trying that against a higher vampire in mist form. Or against high level mages capable tof reacting to lightning.

all you did is Brought, Micheal low feats if we are going to do that then we can also count Geralt who died to a Peasant as well and this is canon as well. hell even during the Bad ending of Witcher 3 Geralt Dies to drowners.

Funny, you've done exactly the same when you brought Regis' low feats and conviniently ignore both the rest of his feats and common sense. Hypocrisy so much? The difference is that I did so merely to point out your cherry picking, while you used it as an actual argument.

Indeed, he died to a peasant. And, as I've expected, you ignored context. AGAIN. Let's see what the book has to say about that, shall we?

- Mercy! - an unkept young man with crazy eyes fell on his knees in front of him - Spare me!

Geralt spared him, stopped the movement of his arm and sword, using the momentum intended for the blow to spin away. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw the unkept youth sprint to his feet and saw what he was holding. Geralt interupted the turn to spin back the other way. But he was stuck in the crowd. He was stuck in the crowd for a split second.

All he could do was watch as the three-fanged fork flew towards him.

The Lady of the Lake

Geralt's morals combined with his restricted maneuverability. I guess you've never been on any concert whatsoever?

Has it occured to you that Geralt wanted to die, meaning he wasn't even fighting back? He was still sitting with his head in his hands when the monsters entered the house. Btw. have you seen the body? No? Didn't think so.

Micheal isn't Viktor, he clearly didn't want to kill the Humans, again, these humans are far advanced humans with Tech that takes down Vampires and Lycans. Using that as an argument and a Negative against them is just sad, that is like Guards in Witcher verse using Weapons that takes down witchers. if we are going to be fair Witchers in the Witcher 3 have been captured by humans and used for experiments as well so again what is your point?

So what, Michael allowed himself to get shot? Or is he uncapable of disposing humans without killing them?

Oh, and Kiyan has been captured by Ireneus var Steingard, a mage powerful enough to conjure storms. Due to their power, mages can be hardly qualified as mere humans. Not to mention that Ireneus had both element of surprise and extensive prep time before the abduction:

He's cautious. I won't be able to put him down with a casually placed poison apple. Guess I'll have to zonk him out with a spell and whisk him away via teleport.

(...)

Very high level of resistance to psionic spells. Time needed for full penetration of his nervous system – a half an hour at least.

A few more moments and the witcher will be ready for transport. Now I just need to wipe our tracks. Perhaps a little change in the weather?

Mage's notes

In the Witcher 3, you literally fight a Witcher that was captured and tortured by normal average humans for almost 50 days.

Adressed and debunked. Moving on.

Stop using Double standards buddy...Like I said I know my Witcher Verse.

Using double standards is your forte, "buddy".

I guess that's why I need to correct you on practically every step.

Geralt was even Captured by Humans in Hearts of Stone DLC. until Gaunter O'Dimm saved him, had that not happened he was going to be killed by random Guards.

Indeed he was. After being literally showered in entrails of the giant, venomous frog and loosing fucking consciousness .

You ignored context beceuse it suited your "argument". AGAIN. And you have the nerve to accuse someone of double standards? Pathetic.

this is ridiculous that you are trying to give me crap, just because I won't Wank the Series, and jerk it off. Honesty should count for something. I am a fan of the games and series, but I am no wanker I speak the truth, and I give accurate knowledge about the series.

Indeed, this is ridiculous.

Lol, I don't need to "give you crap", you're doing a fine work yourself.

"Accurate knowledge"? Keep telling yourself that. Eventually you'll convince yourself.

It's cool if you don't want to debate about it anymore, I guess it gets very strenuous wanking all the time. you have a good day.

Debunking you is fun and all, but it is indeed becoming wearisome. Besides, there's really no point arguing with someone in denial.

Allow me to congratulate you. Over my three years on Comic Vine I've never encountered someone soo utterly disingenuous and sellective in his choice of arguments. And your delusion of greatness is adorable.

You sir are truly something else.

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you've Never Debunked me.

I have not been Cherrypicking facts, I have been telling the truth from the start...never has my argument wavered from what it was.

You missed understanding the context of what I was saying when I said "You telling me I am Wrong and telling people to listen to you" Your argument was that I was using Stuff from a Gwent Game, and then you said you wouldn't even count as canon...then posted your other sources. so in a sense, you were doing exactly as I said you were saying that I was wrong then posting sources to show people they should listen to you.

even in the original Regis was still killed by humans. him getting knocked out from the wall should be a negative against him when in the Last fight in Blood in Wine he was seen breaking through walls in their fight...so how would smacking into one knock him out for so long for people to literally cut him up into many pieces? sounds like Glass cannon to me.

like I told you, I know my witcher verse, and I have been more than fair in here. now if you are saying you debunked me then you need to yield and admit that I debunked you as well since you said Vilgaforts wasn't a human and then when I asked you what is he you ignored my question so yeah. he still bested Geralt in hand to hand combat doesn't matter when he did it just know that he did it.

again, Sounds like Geralt is glass Cannon if Drowners are able to kill him, it just means he isn't as strong as people wank him to be. sure he is skilled, but let not forget most and when I say most I mean like 98% of the time Geralt has prep time and has an idea who he is fighting and what stuff to use to win the fight, he isn't winning them in a random encounter.

even in the books, Geralt isn't even portrayed as super powerful, he gets hurt and nearly killed on the regular by monsters. I know the Geralt from the games is stronger but it doesn't make anything I said any less canon.

I still think UnderWorld Vampires take this, this was a very hard choice for me to make but it doesn't change my position, I feel they are vastly more superior in skill. Regis isn't even a fighter he has gone on notice even in the books that he is a pacifist might be why he lost so badly. slamming Regis into a Wall was enough in knocking him out both times, then this can easily turn into a 2v1 battle with Viktor and Marcus Taking out Regis since they casually throw people through Walls made of cement and boulders as well with ease.

Like I was saying take 20 of those people from Underworld with those Weapons and they would solo most of it minus the higher Vampires and God tier stuff, but everything else is fair game.

I just think we should agree to disagree and Cease this foolishness if it isn't you then it's Eriden12 saying that I downplay Witcher Verse and I am the one who defends the verse the most... I just don't jerk it off and say you need Massive hypersonic speeds to blitz Geralt and vampires in their or saying that Ciri who is untrained can beat the wild Hunt.

it doesn't mean or imply that i am a downplayer i just think things logically yes, i have been very accurate.

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#45 Edited by a_marques (539 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

What are Underworld vampires feats? Higher vampires in Witcher move at FTE speeds to a point they appear as teleporting, can wreck dozens of armored soldiers, have multi-ton strength (bruxas which are below higher vampires ripped steel cages by throwing humans into them) and can become intag by turning into mist on a whim. They also have low level TP IIRC and pretty good regen.

I honestly don't know why people keep saying Dettlaff and Regis can move so fast they appear to be teleporting when in reality they're only turning into mist and disappearing(becoming invisible) for a short period of time to catch their opponents off guard.

This is clearly what seems to be happening here:

Loading Video...

No one (except for the Unseen Elder) in the Witcher verse has ever moved at FTE speeds. Higher Vampires are blur speed at best.

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#46 Posted by buildhare (8866 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly unsure what's happening in this thread, Victor isn't even in the same tier. Team 1 stomps.

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#47 Edited by Eredin12 (1119 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000:

I am the Most knowledgeable Witcher debate on this site.

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on topic, Witcher vampries win this

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#48 Posted by MyGod000 (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@eredin12 said:

@mygod000:

I am the Most knowledgeable Witcher debate on this site.

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on topic, Witcher vampries win this

Witcher Vampires get stomp they are at best blur level speed...you could wank to FTE but that it they are slower than These vampires from the underworld.

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#49 Edited by Alexander505 (3008 posts) - - Show Bio

Witcher vamps stomps