Death-Stalker is the original. I'd like to point out that while it doesn't mention it in the bios of Death-Stalker I've read online, D-S has superhuman strength of at least 10 tons (at least he does in the old Doc Strange comic I just read with him in it) in addition to his teleportation, intangibility, and death-grip. This is the version we'll use here.
Wolverine is like he was in the 80s--i.e. his healing factor is not as strong as it is today. Logan has all his claws, adamantium bones, senses, etc. as well.
Battle takes place in an office building at night. They start 50' away. In character. They don't know each others' powers.
Win occurs when the other combatant is first unable to fight for longer than 30 seconds. This means that if Wolverine is wounded enough to make him have to rest and heal before continuing, then he loses the fight.
One big question to me: is Death-Stalker's death-grip deadly enough to counteract Wolverine's old-style healing factor long enough to win the fight?
@jashro44: Giving this to Death-Stalker, unless proven otherwise.... Basically death stalker can be in limbo and not be hit ... but if using his death touch he has to be out of limbo. Here are scans of it vs daredevil. Basically if he touches you die ... but I'm not as familiar with how strong it is as it's an artificial ability that makes use of an Advanced Idea Mechanics (A.I.M.) design. More info on how it works could persuade me to vote Wolverine.
favorite wolverine costume! i still wanna say wolverine, but intangibility and a death grip may win the day.
Yeah I like that costume best too.
@sandiego008 said:
@jashro44: Giving this to Death-Stalker, unless proven otherwise.... Basically death stalker can be in limbo and not be hit ... but if using his death touch he has to be out of limbo. Here are scans of it vs daredevil. Basically if he touches you die ... but I'm not as familiar with how strong it is as it's an artificial ability that makes use of an Advanced Idea Mechanics (A.I.M.) design. More info on how it works could persuade me to vote Wolverine.
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Thanks for putting up those scans.
I think the fact that he has to come out of intangibility is important. DD has always been able to effectively tangle with him, and I would think if DD can snag him, Wolvie could too. So to me the question is, can Death-Stalker kill/incapacitate Wolvie before Wolvie slices and dices Death-Stalker? D-S has no particular special durability as far as I know, so a couple cuts may be all it takes. But D-S's intangibility and teleportation do make him pretty tough to tag.
In terms of how the death grip works, I haven't read the DD stories directly, but it's supposed to use microwave radiation and kill anyone who he grabs. I don't know how many people he's actually killed using it. I believe he killed Cat-Man and Ape-Man by using it (grabbing one of them in each hand.) In the Dr. Strange story, for some reason Death-Stroke says he's going to take it easy on them and use it on low power, which just caused pain. So it's a little up in the air in so far as how it really works and how effective it is, in my mind. I guess I take it as truth that it would kill any normal person pretty instantaneously. But whether that would put Logan down for the count, I don't know. I think it might KO the old 80s Wolverine for a while. He was affected by poison, sword cuts affected him fairly seriously, etc. at that point. So I think maybe the death grip would too. But I am definitely willing to hear other, more-informed views on that.
@sandiego008: @Owie: Thanks for the scans. I think I will side with wolverine here. He is pretty fast and his healing factor will probably provide some resistance here. But it will be tough.
@jashro44: @Owie: What I got from scans is that DD coudn't tag Death - Stalker ... he literally had to use his sonar to track him, even then he couldn't hit him when sensing energy. He had to bust out the lights to make it so Death-stalker couldn't see to tag him.
With wolverines improved stats could that be the edge? I honestly don't think so but I could see and not really argue against someone if they want to argue that.
How does the healing factor come into play? I'm assuming instant death would K.O. wolverine instantly on full power all that is needed for a win.
A legit 50/50'ish battle I just give the edge to Death Stalker over 80's wolverine.
@sandiego008:All though daredevil couldn't really touch daredevil deathstalker also couldn't touch deathstalker either. Wolverine is faster then daredevil and his healing factor will provide some resistance (I see no difference between the touch of deathstalker and omega reds deathspores). I realize 80's wolverines healing factor was weaker however its still the same healing factor and that healing factor has resisted similar things to this touch. Wolverine should be able to tag him, and it only takes 1 swipe to end this.
@jashro44: I'm not arguing as I am just saying I could see this going either way. Also, (could be wrong), I don't think he was written as being as agile in the 80's. It would only take 1 swipe and I think he would kill him ... I just think the majority would go to death stalker.
I also see how one could argue the majority going to wolverine though as this could go either way.
@sandiego008: He was pretty agile in his first appearance. Not daredevil agile but agile.
I'm not sure if this is agile enough to dodge death stalker w/o using some trick like DD had to use ... is all I'm saying. Also I believe DD's sonar > than 80's wolverines ability to instantly pick up a smell/sense and react to it.
@sandiego008: All though daredevil couldn't really touch daredevil deathstalker also couldn't touch deathstalker either. Wolverine is faster then daredevil and his healing factor will provide some resistance (I see no difference between the touch of deathstalker and omega reds deathspores). I realize 80's wolverines healing factor was weaker however its still the same healing factor and that healing factor has resisted similar things to this touch. Wolverine should be able to tag him, and it only takes 1 swipe to end this.
Refresh my memory on how well Wolverine has take Omega Red's death spores, particularly back in the day?
I'm also hazily thinking about the Meltdown story, where I believe Wolverine was KOed not only by poison darts but also Meltdown's radioactivity, which might be similar in kind (although much greater in degree) than Death-stalker's death grip. But I should probably look back and re-read that before I go and just post it in public like it's fact!
I think it may come down to who hits who first. Since they don't know each other's powers, if Death-Stalker is careful, and stays intangible, teleports around unpredictably, he can probably tag Wolvie first. I agree Wolvie is faster than DD though.
@sandiego008: He was pretty agile in his first appearance. Not daredevil agile but agile.
I'm not sure if this is agile enough to dodge death stalker w/o using some trick like DD had to use ... is all I'm saying. Also I believe DD's sonar > than 80's wolverines ability to instantly pick up a smell/sense and react to it.
Yes daredevils sonar is better but wolverines reflexes are better. Deathstalker will have to hold on for a bit for him to finish wolverine. Wolverine only needs 1swipe. He can still hear deathstalkers heart beat and such, meaning wolverine should be able to detect if deathstalker is tangible or not.
@Owie said:
@jashro44 said:
@sandiego008: All though daredevil couldn't really touch daredevil deathstalker also couldn't touch deathstalker either. Wolverine is faster then daredevil and his healing factor will provide some resistance (I see no difference between the touch of deathstalker and omega reds deathspores). I realize 80's wolverines healing factor was weaker however its still the same healing factor and that healing factor has resisted similar things to this touch. Wolverine should be able to tag him, and it only takes 1 swipe to end this.
Refresh my memory on how well Wolverine has take Omega Red's death spores, particularly back in the day?
I'm also hazily thinking about the Meltdown story, where I believe Wolverine was KOed not only by poison darts but also Meltdown's radioactivity, which might be similar in kind (although much greater in degree) than Death-stalker's death grip. But I should probably look back and re-read that before I go and just post it in public like it's fact!
I think it may come down to who hits who first. Since they don't know each other's powers, if Death-Stalker is careful, and stays intangible, teleports around unpredictably, he can probably tag Wolvie first. I agree Wolvie is faster than DD though.
Well omega red didn't appear until 1992 but even 80's wolverines healing factor still was the same thing just wasn't as good as it is now. I remember 1 fight with omega red that lasted 17 hours, however I don't think 80's wolverine would have lasted that long. The point is that wolverine can resist deathstalkers touch. It would take deathstalker a few seconds to maybe a minute to finish wolverine which is going to be tough to hold onto wolverine for that long. I'm not to familiar with the meltdown story? I agree deathstalker could win some but I side with wolverine for the majority.
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