Death of the Endless (DC/Vertigo) vs Ynnead (WH40K)

Death of the Endless VS Ynnead

REASONING FOR THIS THREAD

Another VSBattlesWiki Counterpart thread. requested by Juliusz2006 (my fellow Viner buddy who criticizes VSBW Tiering as much as I do) Apparently in the eyes of VSBattles, both Death (from DC/Vertigo) and Ynnead (from Warhammer 40K) verse are ranked equally on TIER 1A (this 1a wonky tiering again) meaning Outerversal, which by our CV/OBD language standards would mean Beyond Omniversal. But really this just means Outer-Conceptual stuff in relations to Dimensional Tiering (which this board typically dislikes).

Apparently, heated debates are likely going on about this on VSBattles Multiversal threads, so let's not monopolize the activity of Multiversal threads to VSBattles and let's see what Comicvine users have to say about this fight.

YNNEAD'S PROFILE ON VSBW http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Ynnead#The Yncarne

DEATH'S PROFILE ON VSBW http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Death_of_the_Endless

Agree with the profiles? No? Please make counter arguments against them.

RULES

• Most powerful versions for either character.
• Fight and Win by raw reality warping, higher dimensional, multiversal power power, thereby win by any means (Erasure, Destruction, Sealing, Reality Warping, etc.).

From what I gather of Ynnead, he is pretty OP for his verse from what I hear. But considering the contradictory information about WH40K God Tiers I get from Comicvine that contradict that of the stuff from VSBattles, this appears debatable.

I know more about Death than I do Ynnead, so I will try to refrain speaking for Death at all until necessary exceptions IE unreasonable lowball against her. But nothing beyond that.

im here

death of the endless stomps by feats , statemants and multiverse/megaverse tiering

the chaos gods in the warp are multiversal+ ynnead has the warp in his stomach

but still the DC cosmology is far bigger than the wh40k one and death of the endless is going to caim it so

death of the endless stomps

@juliusz2006:

im here

death of the endless stomps by feats , statemants and multiverse/megaverse tiering

the chaos gods in the warp are multiversal+ ynnead has the warp in his stomach

but still the DC cosmology is far bigger than the wh40k one and death of the endless is going to caim it so

death of the endless stomps

Prove it.

@juliusz2006: I'll probably do a something something...... Destiny of the Endless thread.

I just finished reading both Sandman and Lucifer, it's so crazy how Destiny literally is the catalyst for many of the dramas within the Vertigo Multiverse. Firstly, he practically caused all the messed up shit happenings to both Dream and Lucifer. If he didn't call for the Endless meeting which caused it, Dream would not have gotten Nada back from hell, which is what caused Dream's downfall (through complicated mishaps later on) due to Nuala, Lyta Hall, etc. and Lucifer would not have left hell which later caused all these mishaps to him that would eventually lead to Elaine becoming Presence and etc.

For that, I'll probably make one soon for Destiny.

@merulezall: DC's Current Cosmology as far as I know, and would be agreeable to most, is that it has at least Infinite Universes or Timelines (not limited to 52 anymore again) within the boundaries of, and contained within the Source Wall (its arrangement is in dispute due to DC's self contradicting cosmology) but that's the multiversal quantity configuration of DC's Multiverse that is at the very least, most agreeable, most reasonable and least controversial. Since they brought back Hypertime VIA DKM. I presume as such, that the Warp would be the same. So because of this, I assumed the match up would not be one sided at all.

Now someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I am wrong but that warp is a kinda vague thing that in reality doesn't fit with any multiversal description. WH chaos gods didn't even have complete control of it and they are active just in that galaxy.

I mean tyrandis were coming from the nearby galaxy and nobody know about them or was prepared for their arrival. Also if Chaos gods would have been active in other places in universe they would have already take it over and spill all over and wouldn't have been fighting with the emperor for some entrance gate in the material space there. And the emperor isn't able either to control the galaxy with his powers or something.

To me all of the WH gods seem to be active just in the said galaxy, as a product of various species beliefs or feelings and the warp is a vaguely defined parallel dimension that also seem to be really active only in the same galaxy.

So if I am right the death of the Endless is way above them and this is a mismatch

Ynnead couldn't even stand against Slaanesh, and while hyped a lot, the Chaos Gods are barely universal, if universal at all... Death, regardless of stupid tiering and bullshit VSbattles uses is IN FACT a multiversal singularity... She shitstomps effortlessly.

@merulezall:

The DC cosmology has multiverses , megaverses , bleed , hypertime , metaverses , sphere of gods , monitor sphere etc.

Alot of these realms are infinite , completely transcend physics or are infinite dimensional

Death is going to claim all of these realms and beings that even transcend those realms

The wh40k cosmology appears to be a standard multiverse Whith the warp being the highest realm and ynnead carrying an entire warp in his stomach currently the highest tier i could give to ynnead is likely megaversal but that s still not enough to beat death since DC has realms that transcend megaverses and death is going to claim those realms

@totu: @lucano: @merulezall: VSBattles say that the Warp is connected to Infinite Universes and Infinite Dimensions, therefore the Chaos Gods are like Beyonder level according to their reasoning and would rival or would be placed above Death. What would you say about that?

@sungsam: actually wh40k sources are very vague one will tell you that the warp is connected to infinite dimensions and one will tell you that the warp is connected to 1 milion universes

I recomend talking to Wut he is a very good expert on wh40k

Death has better feats

@totu: @juliusz2006: @lucano: @sungsam:VS Battle Wiki is garbage, don't use it.

I remember people on this website calming that any of the Outer Gods from The Cthulhu Mythos stomps both Marvel and DC just because VS Battle wiki people on that website claim that all the Outer Gods are infinite-dimensional while they think Marvel is only 16-dimensional while DC is only 11-dimensional. If that was the case then I guess Galactus is equal to any of the Outer Gods from The Cthulhu Mythos, because a statement about him once claimed to be not bounded by dimensions here:

So I guess Galactus is actually more powerful than the whole of Marvel and DC and equal to the Outer Gods according to VS Battle wiki.

But anyways on topic I don't know about Ynnead but the Chaos Gods are actually multiversal beings like the Marvel abstracts (Eternity, Infinity, Death & Oblivion) and the Endless from DC, as Tzeentch has created universes inside the Warp or something like that. Speak to @wut if you want because he honestly knows more about the Chaos Gods and the whole of WH40K in general than I ever will.

Ynnead isn't this powerful, whatsoever

Even if you believe that tripe that Chaos Gods are multiversal, Ynnead isn't really a "chaos" god and although it certainly is a very powerful warp entity its not fully awakened yet.

Oh no it's one sided because the Elder gods are rather weak and pathetic than lets say the ork and chaos gods. They don't have the feats to stand up to the endless. Only Chaos and Ork gods have that ability to do so.

Warp is not vague enough to say they aren't multiverse. There's already quotes stating the Chaos gods at any given time are wiping away universes because they can. They own the warp and it is theirs. However, the gods are fighting each other while in the warp. Also the Chaos Gods are not struggling to take over the galaxy either. They don't care for the galaxy they are entertained by it and nothing else. Whenever they give the slightest "fuck", stuff like the Horus Heresy happens, otherwise they don't care. The Chaos Space Marines want to watch the galaxy burn, not the gods themselves.

None of that matters. They both have infinite universes.

I don't care for the match up, Death wins.

What I'm saying you need to prove that dcs infinite universes is bigger than 40ks infinite universes. Because so far that is rather a blinding statement and not even close to what is stated. If we wish to go on, I could say the warp has 11 dimensions and all of which are again infinite universes, I can also mention that fantasy and the 40k are connected as well which adds another dimension or universe. At the end of the day DC has infinite universes like marvel, like 40k, like Dr. Who, like Rick and morty, etc. You need to prove DC is bigger.

im not gonna lie im not a DC cosmology expert but ill send you to this thread about the DC cosmology there are pepole far more knowledgable on those stuff than me on this thread

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/dc-cosmology-1903336/

death of the endless is going to claim all the stuff mentioned in this thread

also ynnead is the being who carries a warp in his stomach and will desytroy slaneesh so he is most likely more powerfull than the chaos gods

@merulezall: @juliusz2006:

So you wish to be convinced that DC's Cosmology is bigger than Warhammer's Cosmology, you mean Numbered Dimensions? All that does is organize a recurrent Infinite Multiverse into different sub-Multiversal clusters based on different starting point conditions (7D is different universes created by different big bangs, 6D is different timelines from a common big bang). now whether writers use this definition of dimensions is beyond me. Sometimes, higher dimensions don't even necessitate to higher infinities either (see I/0) This is where Marvel and DC came up with their Metaverse/Megaverse stuff, in order to simplify the concept to Dimensionality to Multi-Multiverses to its audience readers. But since you imply you accept Spatiotemporal Number Dimensional measurement to size up the Multiverses between DC and WH40k, okay then.

DC's dimensionality is inconsistent, as it varies from writer to writer. Jim Matteis and Paul Jenkins both basically confirmed that Rama Kushna and Sena were both speaking of Infinite Higher Dimensions. While Grant Morrison thinks DC's Main Cosmology is 11 Dimensional and stories with Mxyzptlk point to a 10 Dimensional Omniverse. Wildstorm stories point to the Wildstorm Multiverse sitting within the Bleed Space as being a 100,200D Multiverse. Who of these writers do we believe? That depends on you. But these dimensions are not important, they only measure starting point conditions that which literally most if probably not all fictions tend to misuse.

Even if Warhammer has less dimensions than DC, I still don't know if that increases cardinality by necessity. That depends, do Warhammer's Multiverse works in an Omniversal, Infinite Quantum Possibilities? Not just being infinite universes of course.

Me? I actually dislike how wonky dimensional tiering is, I only use it because many people use it (while I slowly hint them as to its flaws) because the writers often misuse how it's supposed to structure an Infinite Multiverse. And half the time, they probably don't understand what these dimensions really are. My opinion? Both Warhammer and DC would be the same size since they're both infinite possibilities contained within infinite universes and there's no going beyond that, but I throw my opinion for logic away because most like to argue with infinity bigger than infinity arguments since this is Comicvine so you can ignore my protest anyway.

@juliusz2006:

im not gonna lie im not a DC cosmology expert but ill send you to this thread about the DC cosmology there are pepole far more knowledgable on those stuff than me on this thread

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/dc-cosmology-1903336/

death of the endless is going to claim all the stuff mentioned in this thread

also ynnead is the being who carries a warp in his stomach and will desytroy slaneesh so he is most likely more powerfull than the chaos gods

Fair enough thank you for your honestly.

You mean the entire warp itself in his stomach? Also Slaneesh is the weakest of the gods, and IIRC last I checked by a decent margin he has to pair up with someone most of the time to challenge the other big 3, so its unlikely that is the case.

No, what I'm saying is that when you have an unlimited amount of something vs an unlimited amount of something in the end you are left with both being limitless, so to claim one is bigger because one is limitness is rather silly.

No one here is sitting here and contesting dimensions, I said when he listed his dimensions I listed 40k's as well stating again limitless vs limitless = limitless.

I think we are both on the same page then. At the end to say one is bigger than the other is rather silly and as I've said before comes down to feats/showings.

@jwwprod: Why do you tell me to not use something I never used? Dafuq

@lucano: I was honestly replying to you about the Chaos Gods.

But I wanted to tell you all that VS Battle wiki is garbage as well.

Does Warhammer have unlimited all accounted possibilities within their infinite universes? If so, then their dimensions with DC are equal. The only way for a Multiverse to have unlimited true possibilities is for it to be Infinite Dimensional, putting a finite number of dimensions to a Multiverse supposedly ALL TRUE POSSIBILITIES AND IMPOSSIBILITIES is a little counter intuitive to me. That's what I was saying as well. Alongside the fact that I wanted to tell you if you view dimensions as valid, well, there was my answer.

Here's an additional TLDR answer of my opinion, In regards to Infinite Timelines vs Unlimited Possibilities. And if there are Higher Infinities? In Spoiler block below.

So again, different multiverses in fiction have different levels of variability and different levels of starting conditions, that's what dimensions do. There can be infinite creations from a decision of eating an ice cream or no, but that is not inclusive of the possibilities of other universes where ice cream doesn't exist and is replaced with another food that creates infinite possibilities. Now whether you think this means there are multiple bigger infinities by semantics over technical logic is up to your interpretation. As it is with Julius.

I think we are both on the same page then. At the end to say one is bigger than the other is rather silly and as I've said before comes down to feats/showings.

Well, would I be on your page? yes, and no, I'm neutral, well not even that, I'm a crossroads to these multiple view points. If you want my view on the question to your question, the Spoiler Block below.

I didn't tag you, sorry, but I didn't want to irritate you, but some readers to this thread might get a wrong impression of what I believe and think, so I must put this clarity out before it gets beyond my hands.

Death claims him.

Death closes the door behind her.

Death wins.

bigger infinities are a very strange and hard to debate topic but i think they work in some ways

i think that dimensional tiering represented bigger infinities but its not really that good of a tiering system and has many flaws

so imo in DC bigger infinities are represented in megaverses , monitor sphere , hypertime , sphere of gods etc.

about the wh40k multiverse alot of sources say that its infinite and other sources say that its just immesurable inconsistencies similair to the DC cosmology

i think i can try making a lowball calculation

let s assume that ynnead s physiology is similair to a human

he carries a realm identicall to the warp in his stomach the warp is infinite (just btw im using bigger infinity logic in this )

a human stomach is around 30 cm in size lets assume that these are 30 infinities each higher than another

30 times 6 = 180 cm the size of the human body

we have 180 infinities each latter higher than the former

so

warp = 30 infinities

ynnead = 180 infinities

its a low ball i used the average size of an adult person and a stomach in this calculation

we all know that the bleed a space between multiverses has 100200 infinities each latter higher than the former

100200 >>>>>> 180

the sphere of gods and hypertime already transcend the bleed which consists of 100200 infinities death of the endless is going to claim realms even higher than the sphere of gods and hypertime

remember this calculation is a lowball i dont think that we have any official information about ynnead s height but i dont think that there is any calculation that would make ynnead surpass the sphere of gods

I don't know what VSbattles says and my knowledge of WH is not very extensive but from what I know I might disagree with such statement due to lack of feats for such

@totu: The Chaos Gods do not control the warp, they have realms within it. The vast "majority" (if such a word is appropriate) of it is not aligned to any major Chaos Power, instead answering to minor powers or just being completely in flux or uncontrolled

A lot of the issue with the Chaos Gods is that because the immaterium and materium are separate things, its extremely difficult for Daemons to enter the material world much less the gods themselves, much less stay in it. Even a no name Greater Daemon requires something along the lines of year long rituals followed by daily ritual sacrifices of thousands of individuals to maintain their presence in realspace for any amount of time. Either that or a disgustingly powerful psyker/sorcerer

The last time a Chaos God was in realspace was only for a relatively small amount of time and required a galactic level psychic event of pure terror, fear and chaos. It created the Eye of Terror

I say death is quite well above them. Not sure if for example every species in the galaxy dies the chaos gods cease to exist as well, or if someone powerful enough control the emotions or souls of people there the effect will be the same, chaos gods eventually disapear due to lack of sustenance

This is correct, the only way to kill them would be to starve them of emotional energy some way or another. This could theoretically be done multiple ways. For example stop them from setting up proxy gods. During the great crusade era, Chaos was at a relatively low ebb, Tzeentch likely didn't have the strength to curdle milk in realspace

@merulezall:

yes its an entire realm identicall to the warp its an afterlife for eldar souls we also cant say which chaos god is the most powerfull

in my opinion

khorne = the strongest

tzeencth = the most dangerous

nurgle = similair to tzeencth but instead of manipulation he uses disease and death

slaanesh = the most infecious

there is also Malice but we dont know that much about him

the ork gods are most likely stronger than the chaos gods and have their own realms in the warp

i wouldnt say they re entirely featless since they laughed at khorne a multiversal+ being when he tried to challenge them

ynnead is even more mysterious but he appears to be the strongest wh40k character ever

the truth is that the only things in sci-fi that can screw whith the wh40k gods are the xeelee verse top tiers , maybe dr who top tiers and the downstreamers

Bump

@sungsam said:

I don't really get irritate too much. However, being on the same page doesn't mean you take a side, it just means we are both thinking similar on a topic, however I could misread that whole situation due to me being tired.

Everyone is fighting within the warp, but the Chaos Gods are multiverse feats as they have no issues wiping entire universes without a second thought. They snap their fingers and its gone. IT is multiverse. Whether the Chaos gods control it or not doesn't matter. They are the big fish besides ofc a few others.

No, only chaos space marines. The Chaos gods never have ever tried to take that galaxy over. Even if they wanted to they themselves can't move into realspace because they are too big.

They are too big for real space or a single universe. That's why they can't come, they also don't care for it other than to be entertained from time to time. Why do you think they poured but a fraction of their power into Horus and horus injured the GEOM?

You do realize there's greater daemons inside the warp as large as solar systems right? They're that big..... You will almost never see a daemon of that size in real space because it can't stay in real space that long. You need rituals that last years to bring in daemons or greater daemons at all and that's a maybe. How would you expect the gods to fit in?

Again, universes...wiped with a thought.

Death is above the elder god yes, chaos gods? Prolly not it would end in a stalemate unless all life is wiped.

Mhhh, what makes him the strongest? Do we got quotes?

Bump.

Anyone else on the vine care to share their thoughts?

Death wins quite easily.

copy that, is the match a closer call, like even or something else two characters they seem to have a lot of advantages and hurricanefunnel will not mention whom hurricanefunnel has voted for. a simple question.

DOE and it's not even close.

Death of The Endless stomps the 40kverse, and its story get recorded on the Codex Omniversa before its gone

Chaos gods no diff

Chaos gods no diff

Chaos gods neg

Chaos gods neg the verse

death solos warhammer instantly

Ah yes, another thread of arguing "my infinity is bigger than your infinity" even though both are infinite. VSBW is incredibly dumb....