DEATH BATTLE: BEN 10 VS GREEN LANTERN- MY THOUGHTS…

I am quoted on twitter for saying before this fight,

“I don’t know if this message will ever be read, but @BenBSinger and @ScrewAttackChad THANK YOU so much for putting #Ben10 in a #Deathbattle. I don’t even care if he loses, it just means a lot to me from the bottom of my 5 year old heart”

And I very much still mean that, I’m just glad Ben 10 was in a Death Battle even if he does lose….which he did. And for the life of me, I know when to listen to the hard earned truth and I know when my favorite characters are beat, I love both of these characters and their actors and I know when to give in….but this was kinda wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hos7hv1Cn8

And not just in the way that say, @KuroArtist has explained which are still credible. Those points being:

1. The Sotobro Effect; a principle in Time Travel which would mean if GL traveled through Time to end the fight, Alien X could follow and stop him; Vis Versa.
2. Omnitrix Removal Failsafes; the Omnitrix can’t be removed or dismembered from Ben because not only has it happened before and returned with no problem, Ben straight up died as Chromastone and came back to life in the hands of his arch rival. The only reason why the Ultimatrix didn’t do it was because it was a confirmed inferior copy. It's merged with his DNA and will act upon it as such, and Ben has survived blows before in human form and was completely saved.
3. Misunderstanding Alien X; Alien X is multiversal (or close at the very least), as I will soon go over. Green Lantern is at most powerful a proven Universal threat, but even though Derrick J Wyatt’s claim that Alien X can destroy a multiverse with “6 thoughts” can be seen as questionable given his reputation, the original creators have confirmed this to be so and holds up. It is not a joke, seeing how it’s also confirmed that Alien X can become omnipotent if he wanted to, but at the cost of the universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-jkS1zu5Cg

But those are not what I want to talk about here…actually it is but there’s more to it is all, and it comes down to comparing their feats. I want to talk about how Alien X and Green Lantern compare to one another and how to define their strengths and weaknesses. Seeing how its near Infinite Will Vs near Infinite Thought, I think I can judge their powers accordingly.

Let’s talk about both of their universal destruction feats, more specifically-

They’re making the case that Green Lantern is 10 times more powerful/durable than Alien X. This is because of him overpowering the U-Bomb in The Green Lantern #6 - "Under Strange Skies" written by Grant Morrison (love that guy). So yeah, Green Lantern overpowered a weapon that could destroy the universe….by himself? Nope.

Hal overpowered the U-Bomb, using all of his might….with all the other Green Lantern’s in the universe power directed to him, he literally had the power of 4,000 lanterns (*7,200 actually). Jeez think about the ones flying out in Space, they’re dead now because Hal took their power (*correction: they were fine). So okay, he had outside help, kind of a cheat in Death Battle, but that’s not all. The energy output was measured at 10⁴⁴Joules in the comic by Adam Strange’s admission at Hal’s funeral….he didn’t die, he was transported or blasted back into the Ring’s own pocket Universe without anyone knowing (Before you ask, Alien X has his own head space dimension and in Ben 10 Destroy All Aliens and Ultimate Sacrifice, the Omnitrix is shown to contain universal data and planets). Hell it’s not even known if it went off or he disarmed it with that power, the event was off screen. Thats 10 Tredecillion Joules by the way or 1 unite of Foe, the energy output of a supernova. But here’s the problem, in the Death Battle, they say Alien X’s universe destroying feat was measured at 4 x 10⁶⁹Joules. WHAT? That’s bigger than Hal’s feat. I looked back in the video, and it came up as such. Even if I’m wrong, why didn’t they explain the math and compare the numbers? They just went off the bombs range itself and didn’t recognize the specific circumstances. Hal didn't overpower the bomb, HE DISARMED IT.

*EDIT: There could be the argument that Hal has tanked a regular supernova before and it getting disarmed by a supernova doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it. But not only does the writer strongly imply this to be the case (or Grant wouldn't have added it), the best we could put Hal at is 7,000 times the energy of 1044Joules by way of adding the power from the other lanterns...which isn't universal btw, It's upper multi solar system level, but Hal himself could very likely be greater....but not like this. (10,000 Foe < 40 YottaFoe+)

But okay, Hal’s overpowered the embodiment of all Will Power in the universe before, with his own Will Power! So maybe they’re translating that feat into this. But even then, this is done at Hal’s best, he’s giving his all, while Alien X’s worst is…Surviving the destruction of the Universe- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7YhGXhSpoE

*EDIT: Upon research, there's even more implications that this version of Krona was a glass canon, considering other lanterns could hurt him, and the most anyone said about Hal killing Krona was "The Ring's aren't allowed to kill the Guardians" via programming. On the Vsbattle wiki page (which I've now just learned of and can be kind of inconsistent true, but still), "Hal Jordan one-shotting Krona and 7 Emotional entities is an Outlier and Plot-Induced Stupidity, partially due to the fact that a few issues earlier Krona with Ion easily tanked all of Hal's willpower". I kinda wanna disagree with that, as Hal was probably giving his all in that feat, but still it doesn't change the fact that Alien X is superiorly powerful in a broader sense. Ion in of himself was stated to be of infinite or omnipotent Willpower...except when he was taken control of by force of Krona. Him dying freed them. So...not Omnipotent, like Alien X but still. Speaking of-

He didn’t even move! While Hals feat was shown off screen it’s likely he was giving his all to snuff out the U-Bomb (if we're going with that), while Alien X survived the Anihilaarg as if it weren’t even there. If the universe being destroyed is like a light breeze to Alien X, 10 times that would be more than a Fresh gale knocking him back a bit. And then he recreated the universe. Why didn’t he just contain the blast of the Anihilaarg or go back in time? Well for one, it’s not a Bomb, it’s more like a massive disintegrator (correction: it actually is kinda a bomb, it portrays itself differently in the show), and two, Ben was trying to communicate with Bellicus and Serena to convince them to help unaware of the situation. Once he did, the damage was being done and….well they didn’t think of it. This is Ben (from Ben 10: Omniverse) we’re talking about. Hell if that’s a question being asked, why didn’t Hal just travel back in time before the universe was in danger and stop the U-bomb before it activated? *EDIT: Also upon further research, The Anihilaarg, can create universes as well as destroy them, but also indirectly create a time-stream from which timelines diverge. If possible for the Anihilaarg to destroy timelines as well, Alien X can survive Time altering effects and when he recreated the universe, he recreated the past as well, but altered. That's why he couldn't go back in time and stop it from happening. Because in order to destroy the universe, you'd need to destroy all physical matter and the TIME SPACE CONTINUUM ITSELF (but only in theory, the fact is, GL can't time travel to kill X). So Yeah. Alien X might have the greater sustainable power and durability considering Hal’s feat is more vaguer than Bens.

We also have to consider the time Hal survived the Magnetic pull of the Universe against Doctor Polaris, in Green Lantern “Volume 2 #135 of December 1980”. When in comparison to Ben, he doesn’t have many measurable feats to that, he was once able to pull Piscciss, a planet made of water back together after becoming atomized as Goop (episode titled: Deep). And later materialized into the water itself disconnected from the planet. Incredibly impressive, but it’s not technically a universal feat compared to Green Lantern, who somehow helped Polaris absorb the energy from the magnetic core of the universe to become atomized himself. So the comparison is strong judging the guy who avoided being atomized or the guy who was atomized and survived, but in terms of Alien X who is superior to Goop, I’d say he can survive it too, being magnetic force that he can manipulate (or just scaled Lodestar, who was able to (at his best) split apart the Naljian Destructor, a regenerative universal weapon that to 26th dimensional beings was a mere toy).

Also remember that comment about Hal arresting God? Yeah, vague claim, but this “God” was actually an alien world eater called The Shepherd, who’s a shapeshifter, who looks like this-

Those planets are shrunken I might add, via alien technology, and while the guy was the size of a Kaiju, GL took him in one punch. So…not God. Not even comparable to Waybig. He's got weak laser eyes, and that's it. He could also give the people of Earth limited super powers and resources in order to sway them to his side, but the whole story was about misleading the people of earth into thinking he was a god.... sounds familiar. (They even made the same mistake with Ben punching out "the Mayan God of Death" in the bullet points, why was that even in the episode, he's not comparable to cosmic beings in the Ben 10 canon?)

Now let’s talk about speed. Since they draw comparison to other Green Lanterns for Hal, let me show you some of Alien X’s likely comparisons, like Professor Paradox and Clock Work, to which he totally can scale to. Professor Paradox can control the rules of time and space like Alien X and once Teleported Ben and his team in the Rust-bucket jet from Galvan Prime to the empty space between universes (episode “The Forge of Creation”). Literally outside the Multiverse like the walkway between stores at the mall!- https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ihojq This means they went from their universe, outside universes in seconds. That’s like Darkseid’s 87 Duodecillion Times The Speed Of Light feat. Probably greater seeing as it’s outside the universe lightyears away and the only way to get to the forge of creation is from there, and Paradox put them in a jet already flying there (Even though Galvan Prime's placement in space is difficult to determine, it's not much of a factor). Seeing as Alien X could have gone to the Forge of Creation without help, it’s reasonable to believe that Alien X can transport himself at that speed (or fly below that speed just in the Duodecillion range). As for the battle's thoughts on their reaction speeds, Death Battle explained it, 7 quadrillion times faster than light, though he may be relatively slower given the inner conversation of Ben + 2. This is where GL kinda takes the cake here as of The Green Lantern Corps #28, he breached the speed force to catch Lightray, which is kind of some of the best speed around. *EDIT: It even could have been used to justify Hal's time travel feats! Why didn't they use this?!*. Yet one minute, an example like The Flash vs Quicksilver it can make you move 10 times the speed of light and yet the next in Captain Marvel vs Shazam its 100 trillion, and the next he’s instantaneous (though Wally West had help to reach that speed and can't do so naturally). Because Comics. But Hal outracing a New God puts him on a close level with Alien X. At least in travel (it is also noted this feat was mentioned in the fight on a top corner info card, but not center stage.)

The integrity of the construct is breaking sure, but still something impressive (despite the acknowledgement that Lightray was tiring and Hal caught up, this is clearly his limitless limit). Whats funny is that in the battle, Ben is 7 quadrillion times ftl and Hal is 1.5 Quintillion ftl, thats the measure they use and show to demonstrate in the fight (Despite the fact that they say that's 750 times faster than Alien X, when it would 214 times faster than X. This is not the only time they legit mess up on the numbers in the episode). Yet they’re much faster. Near infinitely actually, and hard to quantify when you control space and time itself. Hal’s probed the universe in a heartbeat and tagged Flash and Zoom before, which I’d say gives him the experience, but Ben has fought a beast moving faster than light and inter dimensional teleporters who serve the Dagon, Hyperspace flight speed or any other scaling. In some depictions, the DC Universe itself has even been stated at times to be "infinite" in size on multiple occasions within itself, which should give Hal the win here....if Alien X didn't scale to such Infinite power through other statements from the show, like how Servantis said Alien X could "Wipe out all of existence" including the infinite sized Null Void (the mainline universe has been stated to be infinite in a Novelization of "War Of The Worlds") or travel to the Forge Of Creation itself, which is beyond time and space. Not to mention, the use of DC's statements as the main universe being infinite is very inconsistent or used as hyperbole for dramatic effect. Contradicted by other sources like how there is an END to the universe in question, same as Ben's. (EDIT: Hell, considering Ben had a DC Comic run, they could share the same dimensional multiverse). Apparently. Marvel has even done this on multiple occasions, they may be big, but they're not endless. Unless there's more to be said on the main universe in the multiverse that can at least put it in at a set of infinite ala just main Universal level.

So if you wanted, yes sure Green Lantern wins the speed category….but Alien X can just…match him over. (*Thoughts become reality people...)

*EDIT: The feat they pulled for Hal's 1.5 Quintillion ftl was from Action Comics #605. Where he was trapped on a planet on the edge of the universe with no given time frame of coming back, he just randomly flies back off screen, he could have gone into hyperspace like he's done before to get back just off screen (like Jetray). But that's not the damning part. In Action Comics #606 it was stated, "Hal was on a barren planet a Galaxy away". Not on the other side of the universe. Ain’t that contrary, it's either #605 or #606 of which to trust, but Hal has actually flown in a hibernation state 44 quadrillion times ftl, in Green Lantern Volume 4 #11 of 2006. So he still holds the speed, technically.

And before anyone asks, No, GL cannot use time powers to transform Alien X back to human like Paradox. I’m not even sure he knows what Alien X would be or be able to read his mind? But thats the thing that Death Battle tries to justify their claim around the prospect of little information-

“Alien X has never shown any defenses against the same kinds of things that Hal could replicate, like mind control, transmutation and time manipulation.”- WIZ(ard)

Kuro the Artist elected not to talk about this in his response video, but honestly, less is not more and I wanna justify this. First of all, he has those abilities, he should be immune to them or be able to sense when they’re happening. Like Mind Control, Bellicus and Serena can just snap Ben out of it by their vote (or scale to Nanomech and Chromastone or others). In Omniverse episode "The Vampire Strikes Back" a vampire villain called Lord Transyl tried to take control of Ben's mind, he failed saying his "Will was strong", proving him immune to mind control. Transmutation, Alien X’s durability and existence is universal so he can just fix himself, his reality warping/shape shifting can alter is physical form like other transformations, such as when the Galactic Gladiator did it against Fourarms. In the episode "Under Wraps" of the classic series, Ben in alien form protected from genetic tampering. Time Manipulation, he’s done it before and in comparison to Clockwork- (didn’t think I forgot about him, did you?)

Clockwork once absorbed a Chronosapien Time Bomb that literally was designed to wipe out timelines and realities throughout the Omniverse (or multiverse, but Omniverse implies All Things and could be hyped to that sort of level, but let's just keep it at basic multiversal level of wiping out the dozens of Ben 10 universes. It was synced to Ben's timeline after all).

Since Alien X is superior to Clockwork, his abilities should scale here too. Despite Atomic X succumbing to a similar blast, he's not as powerful as Alien X proper and is only used for controlled combat situations in the show (he'd have to be, certain fusions increase abilities but nothing hard set to power, plus Ben 10K is a alternate future timeline Ben who hasn't mastered Alien X like Ben Prime. His timeline changes every time he meets his future self). Ben was wiped from existence because the Time bomb synced to his Timeline, designed to wipe out multiple universe Bens (and Gwens), while another Green Lantern survived being effected by reality altering effects the same, but couldn't reverse it. Ben did. It sounds odd and a bit convoluted given a less experienced Ben did it, but it makes sense by comparison, plus Hal has never shown the ability to wipe someone from existence. And I do agree that Hal can survive being erased from reality, but Ben has done similar in a comparable form to a standard Alien X. EDIT: Not only has Clockwork turned back the Crisis level bomb, but literally stated on the wiki, that he can "restore individuals who have been erased from time" due to the feat. Alien X should have defenses from Time Manipulation. Hell if Alien X erases people from existence, how he is he even there to erase them from existence if they didn't exist at all in main-time.

So how many times has the universe been in danger and Ben has saved it with his own strength and abilities? A lot. But hey so has Hal, so where can you find a true victor, even their weaknesses can be similar.

(In technically a disservice) Alien X can not survive Anur Vladias, which is an undead aberration planet that drains the life force of what ever is caught within it. Does that mean GL can survive it? Hell no. There’s a difference between magnetic forces, universal destruction, and the color Yellow from life force drainage no matter the infinite (Will) power, and Hal has succumb to death’s hand before.

The reason why I bring this up is to make a case for why I think Alien X should be the victor or at the very least have them tie in a draw. The reason why I say that is because much as in Superman Vs Goku 2, the statement would be brought up in this context-

“Think about it, if you had Ben 10 be as powerful as Green Lantern would you even want him?”

The idea being, if he’s unbeatable, where’s the risk in the show for us to keep watching? Well I purpose a counter idea to this claim…

“Think about it, if you had Green Lantern be as powerful as Ben 10 would you even want him?”

Ben’s entire identity arc is having too much power at a young age, while Hal Jordans has been about overcoming fear and perseverance. The man who can break limits, versus the boy who can choose not to have any. This is the difference. The power within is Hal Jordan’s journey, but Ben is holding The Power, The Journey, he’s got all of it and it’s his choice what to do with it. That's the whole point. This is exactly like Goku Vs. Superman because if Goku is breaking limits, and Superman doesn't have any, what does that mean for Hal who's breaking limits, and Ben who's also breaking limits, because he doesn't want to be limitless? They're both Goku. Alien X is The Superman. On speed dial.

That having been said, Alien X is not Omnipotent, more to the point of nigh omnipotence, but he’s reached the point where fans and on lookers alike consider him omnipotent, the same way people look at Superman. He always wins the day, but at the cost of himself. His life, his friends, his home, in this case for Ben its literal (though in newer cases Ben becomes the self lived idea of a hero who always believes he wins and... does ). Where for Hal, in the past he’s been consumed by his fear and has overcome, where Ben usually has been in specific circumstances for that to happen, like overcoming the drunken power of Ascalon on his own. His life is endangered by the plot and I’d say the same for Green Lantern. Both victims of it. But removing that and the prospect of story telling, who really holds all the cards?

The one who can make all the cards or the one who holds more than they let on. The possibility. The human who plays god or the human who can become god (or they're both close to god, but you get the point.)

The galactic gladiator was beaten in a gladiatorial match (Tetramand rules), not a death battle. It was sport of the gods, in a court casing where the rules were met by menial combat.

Thanks to Hal stabbing Mandrakk in Final Crisis #7 (even though it’s implied that he had help from his other team members Will Power being near and a bunch of other alternate universe Supermen’s heat vision with god knows how much power behind that), Jordan can hurt Alien X, but not some-what murder him, when scaled to other aliens ben has with healing factors (Swampfire and Lodestar possess Type 6 regeneration, and Goop was able to reform from Atomization. The Galactic Gladiator even regrew his hand and could morph his body into various materials). Alien X can survive and even just reverse Time on his injuries like in the fight, where Hal just travels through time injured. Plus, Alien X doesn't have pain receptors, because why would he?! He's never shown in pain when getting a beatdown except when the Galactic Gladiator was punching, Ben on the inside was fine. *EDIT: Also, in the movie "Batman Vs. Dracula, Batman kills Dracula by punching his head off! Freaking crazy right?... That's because it isn't, Dracula was weakened and burning alive by sun light, enough for Batman to punch his head off. This is what's happening here. Especially when he has to say- "All Together!" so why would they do this 3 times in the same episode. It's misleading.

Abin Sur died like a bitch…..(never thought I’d type that), and can’t heal himself on a large scale. Hal’s hit Sinestro with reality breaking blows and can take hits from Superboy Prime (however not The reality breaking blow that started it), and has fought and dealt damage against The Spectre (who was holding back and could regenerate against Hal and other lanterns), which is very impressive, but could scale to Alien X’s own powers and feats. Here's more proof of a Green Lanterns near death, Kyle Rayner (who was said to hold back The Big Bang) gets killed by a being of equal/more powerful than him, Ganthet, a guardian of the universe. And the only way how he survives is by channeling the power of other Lanterns and becoming a White Lantern. Hal's only been that once and he doesn't have it anymore. https://twitter.com/rob_readscomics/status/1024835144081989632

EDIT: There was also a time in Rebirth, Guy Gardner was once saved by his ring from (low level) transmutation when his Vuldarian powers and DNA were overwritten when he was possessed by Parallax. Fixing him up and making him a Green Lantern again. But this was before he would die (he didn't die actually), he was stable before hand, and Green Lantern rings have never shown such flawless resurrection powers. Likely overturning his DNA back to normal or certain reality warping abilities (if canon). Guy back in the old days was able to resurrect a shark villain back to life by time warping his atoms....which were pre-irradiated for him to do so. So no, they can't regenerate, resurrect, nor bring back others by completely regular means. In the same storyline, Hal was even capable of resurrecting himself...with the aid of a Guardian after flying through the after life. And that was only because his soul was left floating around after The Spectre left! *He even deaged himself, which is something other Lanterns have already been shown capable to do like Arisa with enough willpower.

In Pre-Crisis, Green Lantern V2 #19, after getting some confusing future sense temporarily, Hal fights his enemy Sonar and survives his Tunning Fork Gun literally shaking him to pieces. Obviously some type of reality warping type attack rather than real sonic (depending on how Pre Crisis works), but the truth is, Hal was only able to survive before he was shattered completely by creating a green bubble restoring him and healing his injuries. Hal could not survive getting shot or destroyed in the face for real or in any other sense. (He’s even survived being sliced across dimensions, similar to Ben in episode "Singlehanded" but on a much bigger level, reforming himself with his willpower. But again, not a real regeneration feat and Alien X can manipulate dimensions as well, in the video game and in the reboot (though non-canon, the implications of both are still solid for canon use), so just a draw there.)

Hell, later corrected in canon on if one of Ben's enemies called Darkstar could drain Alien X, energy absorbers like Osmosians and Darkstar can't drain full grown Celestialsapiens. They'd need to get an infant one and absorb their powers. As an example, when Kevin absorbed the Ultimatrix, he couldn't absorb Alien X's abilities, meaning Hal can't absorb Alien X's powers. But X can just drain him throughout the fight. Hal's overpowered energy absorbers before, but seeing as Feedback can absorb the Big Bang, and Alien X is superior, Hal's own energy would be turned against him (just like GL's main arch enemy, Black Hand's Cosmic Divining Rod and life force draining powers like Darkstar!- https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Cosmic_Divining_Rod).

EDIT: Also, since Celestialsapiens can change Mana (life energy), by altering the universe, this technically means X can effect Green Lantern's Will Power, which is pulled from the Emotional Electromagnetic Spectrum energy reserves of the universe. It runs on the same/similar life energy, and Anodites are very similar to basic Green Lanterns (tho Hal could beat an Anodite). The ring is usually exaggerated or even implied as Magic (even though that was Alan Scott's Ring/Lantern). Given Alien X's versatility and survivability, it's reasonable he could achieve this with Bellicus and Serena's aid or even just as Ben. This is even more supported by the fact that when Ben recreated the universe, he recreated Gwen and likely Verdona who are Anodites made of mana. But only by technicality, plus when scaled to other Aliens, I'd say it holds up well. If (Ultimate) Waybig's cosmic beams can hurt beings of living energy, scaled to Alien X, should it not effect Hal?

Ultimately, Green Lantern would be an incredibly powerful foe, and they were 100% right about him beating Ben’s other aliens (even The Ultimates). However, Alien X would just be too universally powerful when scaled at the threats he could have (or has) taken down, while Green Lantern has done plenty of very similar things with the power of Will but……

Okay I don’t know how to break this down anymore, Hal can’t kill Ben but Alien X can just prolong the inevitable of Hal’s exhaustion, loss of concentration and his ring losing power. Hal might be able to survive reality and time altering effects, but so can X (despite Professor Paradox changing Ben out of the form, he literally had to go in and get BEN out, Hal would have to enter Alien X’s dimensional space, which he wouldn’t know about, think about and likely can’t do even with his ring's AI assist) and X can literally become omniscient if he wanted to, know Hal’s weaknesses, and physically kill him...While also wrecking the universe by doing so. After all, Brainstorm has an IQ of 1 Nonillion, so at the very least, Alien X is smart enough to outwit Hal.

(The average IQ is about a score of 100, a human thought travels at about 70 mph, that puts Ben at less than 700 Octillion times greater speed in 1 thought. And for Alien X, thoughts control reality...)

Hal Jordan really can be as infinitely powerful as his feats can make him out to be (even Pre-Crisis had him bending back Infinity for a warp jump, though it made his stomach hurt?) either inconsistent, with condition or by his concentration. But look at it this way, Hal Jordan is the best Green Lantern and can do almost Anything.....But Alien X can do almost Everything. Automated and completely precise as shown in his previous feats.

So in this case…. Hero time’s up for Green Lantern.

STRENGTH: Ben 10

SPEED: Green Lantern

DURABILITY:Ben 10

VERSATILITY: Ben 10

But again, I could be completely wrong, so if anyone’s out there, please be sure to tell me and share the conversation. I actually thought the writing of the fight was great and the music inspired! And what they can do with sprite animation is incredible….but…the analysis just felt dry, not even getting to the aliens or constructs I specifically liked about these characters. It's the very definition of STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE, where the spectacle is probably the best the show has ever had, but sadly not the narrative research, which should be graded. I applaud Liam for the battle but not the outcome or the research which was just not adequate and even down right insulting. I’m not gonna get into opinions or theories about the company or the people in it because that’s either for another time or just stupid (*EDIT: What do you know, 5 days later... I did...ah poop, I'm stupid for that, apologizes. May my evidence of some of the cited sources still stand prominent...something that Death Battle actually doesn't do but ehh). But hey personal bias aside….3.5/10 which is like a 1-2 and half star rating? Maybe? It's personal for me.

*EDIT: I'm actually willing to go to 5/10 looking at more reviews who are probably more fair than me in the terms and history of Death Battle, but man does this one still hurt.

And now, EXTRAS:

Alien X surviving Universal destruction and recreates the Universe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkp0TmQFGp0

Ben/Chromastone comes back from the dead thanks to the Omnitrix (Resurrection Ex. 1):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVtCFDOQ5uk

Green Lantern gives up Godly power like Alien X forever, where as Ben can just have it on hand:

https://youtu.be/H1i5BZYaFg8

Here's Dream (an omnipotent god), saying that Kyle Rayner will (and already has) surpassed Hal Jordan- https://imgur.com/a/9Iqf4uz So how's that Big Bang scaling feat looking? Hal Jordan has even admitted Kyle to be his better! https://www.instagram.com/p/BzjBlq5gjHA/

Ben survives this: https://twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1126914344476975105 (Resurrection Ex. 2)

And then, Ben gets atomized, survives at the microscopic level, and pulls the planet back together...and then survives drowning for about less than 10 minutes with no brain damage (Resurrection Ex. 3). They even explain how the checkpoint system works within the same episode, straight down to his clothing: https://youtu.be/ajl-gY5352w

Ben also gets broken apart as Diamondhead, risks turning back in pieces, and is completely fine due to the checkpointing system failsafe straight down to the cold he had (Resurrection Ex. 4): https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6qcfez

BOTH Ben and Hal have had their powers disrupted before. (Episode of Omniverse "Return to Forever", and Green Lantern Annual #1 2019) So they can't just turn each other's powers off, whether it's by Alien X negation of the Omnitrix or failsafes, or by Hal just willing any hacks or mental attacks away from him. They have to take each other head on (though it is warranted that some hacks can work on the other).

Green Lantern's limits on healing factor: https://www.quora.com/Are-Green-Lanterns-capable-of-using-their-Power-Rings-to-heal-themselves and repairs: https://www.instagram.com/p/B_iBPDZAgh-/

Here's how Hal became The Spectre! (But then later lost the power). In this, Hal gets Matter Manipulated, shatters and nearly dies, until Doctor Fate saves him. And as established in Death Battle before, Fate's a near universal god at ends with Spectre himself! He can't defend from High level Transmutation! And while he was stated to have the willpower to keep the Spectre under control, the only way how Hal ever became the Spectre in the first place, was because he begged for punishment and becoming the embodiment of vengeance was that punishment by the OG Spectre:

http://hoosierinanity.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-hal-green-lantern-jordan-became.html

Hal effected by universal Time Travel in the Flashpoint Paradox...dies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPOsG90juc To be fair though, Hal in the comics has survived Pre-Crisis and remembers the Crisis as such. However, it is specifically stated by Hal that "Time Travel's much tougher since The Crisis, Honey! If I hadn't made the Journey before. I'm not sure we could have done it now!" Implying limit to his Time manipulation. DB does take characters at their maximum potential so Hal's best should be included....but so should Ben's. If not then, Hal can't Time Travel naturally.

"Zero Hour" is the story where Hal (Parallax possessed and powered by the central battery) went on a quest to remake the universe in his own image, altering the timestream and if he had succeeded the Multiverse could have been at risk. Yet he failed, and could not long term. To be fair, when amped up he did destroy and recreate the universe using Entropy forces but that's a different lineup of power that main Hal (or even Parallax considering he absorbed it straight from the anti monitor's conflict, supported by the fact that Darkseid wasn't aware by it) doesn't have anymore since that time, and if he did have it, it took him real world time to do so, considering "time" itself was unraveling in segments at a slow pace. Jesus Hal's recreating the universe was a whole arc, while Ben's was an ending. In comic book time that's like 2 pages for Ben. https://www.instagram.com/p/B8ZKm71Azxr/

Given the size of the DC universe (100 trillion light years) and comparing Alien X’s 20 seconds to recreate a regular universe (46 billion). Alien X could destroy and recreate the DC universe within 11 hours. Hal’s destroying and recreating of it took 30 to 60 hours within the 5 issues and the recorded time stamps and he needed the plasma energy to solidify with time to create his universe, like baking a cake (Math could be off of course, but it makes more sense given the context of Hal's abilities). This is even more supported by how Alien X recreated his friends and enemies, while Parallax Hal did resurrect Oliver Queen, he needed the DNA on Superman's costume to do so, reanimating his body. Whereas Ben needed literally nothing. Parallax Hal's powers were growing before stripped away by the other heroes before he could reach universe or multiverse shaping powers. While Ben still has that. The details are extremely important in this. Wish they brought this up.

*EDIT:YouTuber WebCamParrot (he’s great check him out), recently (1/10/2021) did a video explaining Parrallax Hal’s powers and history. Explaining how he had Anti Monitor Entropy powers…but doesn’t anymore. Still bound by limits to his own abilities. He could defeat most of the Justice League though, which is still impressive…despite the fact that he still had his extra powers on top of Kyle Rayner’s ring he stole (temporarily). He would later get even more power after absorbing a Guardian (temporarily), then in Final Night he saved the earth from a multidimensional sun eater. So a lot of this is still really good stuff to give Hal at a universal+ or even greater scale….if he was still Parallax Hal with the Yellow entity itself, which he can’t have all of those powers now and only now has his old/new Green Lantern powers, still with some limits. It’s like if he was still the Spectre it would make no sense. Hal may be able to hold his own against Parallax Hal on universe/time hopping adventures, and fight Possessed Flash and Superman, but despite victories and a statements that makes him the most powerful GL, it still always ends in a draw or retreat. Despite the fact that Hal has been capable of resisting entities like this before, and squaring off with Parrallax (the entity and his time traveling self) before, in the end of Rebirth he still needed help from other earth Green Lanterns. And that’s the thing about Parrallax Hal, he’s always absorbing and losing more power than he already has. It’s crazy. Hal even needed Parrallax back to fight the Spectre. And comparison to The Spectre or other embodiments of more than universal power just doesn’t add up with Hal Jordan’s track record. Not to mention his God of Light arc. It just doesn’t add up now. While Alien X has achieved a better cosmic status and Universal durability feat even before he gained control (though it is noted that writer claims make it just a difficult gaging powers on both sides here, for Hal and Ben).

*Green Lantern: Willworld, tells the story of a young Hal Jordan undergoing his final test to become Green Lantern, the M’eelam Na’Aquall Ritual. A ritual that tests a Lantern’s Will and Imagination, the building blocks of creation itself, and possibly literal magic (kinda contradicting “Superman/GL: Legend Of The Green Flame” but magic characters in DC work off the same principle, Hermeticism, there's a whole Imaginary Axis video about that with Phantom Stranger). This ritual creates entire universes inside the central power battery 123, There’s even a Second part to the Ritual that tests a Lantern in balancing every other Lantern’s realities they created from the ritual, and some don’t make it back…which is why Hal elected not to do it again. Even when he was trapped in the mind fuck that was Willworld, he didn’t have a greater level of control or understanding to just do anything he wanted, much less remember who he was once he got there. Even with passing the test and saving the Land of Odd, this was Hal’s first test before becoming an official Green Lantern, already stated to have Infinite willpower. Nothing really changes for the debate here, he can't really "WILL" himself back to life without assistance such as when he died (kinda?) temporarily in the book. So nothing changes. (But good god, how did Liam miss this? It is technically canon to what he's saying about GLs being magic and Hal has done similar reality warping universal feats before, so it should fit. If they took from First Flight the animated movie, they could have taken from this.)

Hal was once capable of stealing the powers of Amazo, whom he stole from the Justice League, and returned them to the leaguers in question. But this feat was done by the early android Amazo (his first appearance) and in later battles this would prove useless against Amazo. It's likely he just exploited the weakness of the Yellow gas to escape and take their abilities back. He has not shown the ability to use said powers of the league. Ben has even faced power stealers like Osmosians and Darkstar countless times before.

Ben transforms to catch the Big Bang after timing out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEg1aYAWS1I

And Kuro the Artist's video along with Creator Clarifications- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UheWAyXJ7pY

Here it is...the shit stopper. In "Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps #7", Hal has his final confrontation with an almost too powerful Sinestro on the Warworld. To finally end their long fought rivalry, Hal unleashes his full potential and connection to the universe. His connection to the power of Will itself, on the emotional spectrum. Becoming it, becoming stronger, reaching heights long thought unthinkable. In an explosion of power with courageous dialogue between not just rivals, but past friends. Green Lantern delivers the final blow and ends the wrath and tyranny of Sinestro, once and for all.......

WHILE DYING HIMSELF!

Hal killed Sinestro, destroyed the Warworld, and sacrificed himself, only with the help of other Lanterns to tip the scales, cutting off Sinestro's power. He became Willpower and died. Later to be resurrected by Kyle Rayner, the White Lantern, through a ring that technically was Hal's essence himself. Are you serious?! How could anyone at DB miss this! This is Hal's all he's giving right now, and he just destroys a large planet with it. I'll highball him because of Pre-Crisis and John Stewart creating a solar system, he could blow up a Galaxy and a good half or more of the universe (while not comparing directly to cosmic embodiments, the least could be given half of that), but still die from his own power. To be fair he wasn't "supposed" to be dead, and the ring could bring him back given his strong willed life force connection...but not without the help of a White Lantern. Outside help from a godly force. If there's a case to be made that Hal is on equal terms or at least to kill Alien X, with their type of argument. Then this battle should have been a DRAW. BOTH DEAD.

DEATH BATTLE CAST QUESTIONS ANSWERED: RESPONSE....May 28th 2019 (Simplified questions and answers from the podcast, same subject)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQujpsgd428&t=56s

Okay, so they just aired their QnA podcast and....I actually thought it was good, or okay I guess. I like Liam a lot, nice guy, good guy yet...Kinda got some things wrong and right at the same time so dear god this is gonna be a long one. Let's just go over the bare bones questions they brought up:

1. Why didn’t you use other Ben 10 aliens in the fight?

2. You focus a lot on Alien X, but why couldn’t he use Upgrade to possess the ring.

Jesus, Ican answer these two questions! Ben's other aliens can't and would not, beat Green Lantern. Hal has gone up against similar threats before to Ben's aliens and once again, they aren't really comparable in how ben would use them meaning Hal could take advantage of Ben's limited options despite a greater versatility.

Also, "the Ring can do anything. Removes his soul, shrink to the size of an atom"..... there are no panels for those feats, but if there were, Ben has forms that can do the same, that GL still could beat. I agree with them that Hal beats a lot of Bens other forms.....except for one. Alien X can definitely scale to Ben's other Aliens and there feats over, leading to his win. Sadly they did not bring this up in the podcast.

What they did bring up was The U-Bomb feat, where they said exactly what I said that Hal had help stopping it but still funneled through his overpowering Krona feat....but regretfully did not bring up the power difference. GL: 1044Joules < AX: 4x1069Joules. So...yeah.

Clockwork could do time travel like Hal, but he wasn't physically powerful, for Feedback and Chromastone's energy absorption, Hal can just take the energy from energy absorbers back into his ring again (even though Larfleeze, The Parasite, Amazo, The Manhunters and the Cosmic Divining Rod have broken this, but okay?) and overpower them. (It could be implied that only universal energy absorbers can get him, but...what the hell is Alien X then? If not Multiversal? In the panel (From Green Lantern #168) they bring up for Hal taking his energy back, it was caused by a device releasing it into the air. Chromastone converts energy into his ultra violet blasts and Feedback into pure energy, so while I think Hal could just absorb that, is it really his anymore?)

This is why I keep saying scale the aliens to Alien X, he's got counter measures and more versatile options Ben would use to halt Green Lantern's abilities. And it would be fair, seeing as they scale Hal to other Green Lanterns.

"Problem with Bens aliens, he can’t use ALL his powers at once."

I agree with this, but it doesn't change my previous statement.

3. You compare Hal’s speed to XLR8, what about Jetray?

"Ben 10 fans and audiences are familiar with XLR8, Jetray can enter hyperspace, but can’t fly/react as fast Green Lantern." I agree, yet I'm not sure how they can justify Jetray's hyperspace feat in "Eye of the Beholder" as incalculable when Green Lantern's hour flight across the universe also seems kinda immeasurable given the context. Yet in that same episode Ben literally says "I flew halfway across the galaxy" putting him over 2 billion ftl, but still yeah I'll give it to him. Hal Jordan is faster than XLR8 and Jetray.

*EDIT: Or is he?! In Action Comics #605, Hal was beaten by Star Sapphire…his girlfriend. And was placed on a death trap planet called GOLGTHA, on the other side of the universe existing outside the “TIME CONTINUUM.” Hours like weeks, minutes like days. Hal Jordan was left to suffer due to the thick air, nasty smell, starvation and solitary, without dying due to the planet’s conditions. He later escaped and was trapped in suspended animation, but as for his speed, it says the planet was on the other side of the Universe in Issue #605......But then immediately contradicts that in Issue #606 as a barren planet a GALAXY away. Is there anything to support this? Well yes. In Green Lantern Volume 4 #11 of 2006, Hal traveled with Guy Gardner the similar distance, to the edge of the universe where no stars are even in sight, where they had to travel in hibernation mode. This took them….10 HOURS. That would put Hal’s speed at- forty-three quadrillion eight hundred trillion times the speed of light. Almost 44,000,000,000,000,000 quadrillion TFTL (According to Vsbattle wiki). Close to the 1.5 Quintillion. But he must have been in hibernation to do so and can’t do so in the same time span. Either way, I still stand

"Hal pilots a ship at light speed without his ring. Jetray hasn’t done light speed in a fight."Also agreed, even though certain areas of that might seem questionable and there's such things as Ben doing superhuman feats without the watch. Hell Kevin Levin has dodged beams of light before, and Ben has done better than that without the watch. Ben and Hal could be equally superhuman based on how there medium portrays them, but I agree with the overall speed for Hal with the ring.

*EDIT: Ben's aliens have dodged beams of light and lasers before and Jetray has been shown to be faster than XLR8 and Ampfibian. Given how in the past Death Battle calcs have shown Flight speed be similar to reaction speed, this should support for Chromastone, Jetray, and even greater Alien X.

4. Couldn’t Ben multiply as Echo Echo and become multiple different Aliens?

What is wrong with everyone in the fanbase saying that?! Especially you Kuro the Artist (love you and the fanbase), but Ben doesn't do that anymore because dividing himself leaves him vulnerable and unable to operate in a fight. It's one of the worst episodes of the series, and I agree with them: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5tcokd

"Not optimal."

5. The creators have said that he’s a multiversal being? Is this true?

This one is kind of embarrassing for me (mainly because an early commenter on this post called me out before on it and I didn't believe it based on his information). When I wrote this blog post, I did read the Man of Action QnA....It's just that...well, I might have read it wrong :(. (That's why I added "he's close to multiversal" given the odds, so it still stands, plus they said Omniversal destruction, which is probably greater than multiversal)

Celestialsapiens can’t survive Omni to multiversal destruction. Alien X is the best form of Celestialsapien, but its not clarified nor confirmed, and creators have contradicted each other more or less on their power dependent on who you want to believe (Universal, Multiversal or Omniversal durability?). Still, if your given the choice to become Omniscient, and near omnipotent, why should he not be multiversal? They even say in episode he was born "beyond the multiverse itself"! So a contradiction is still a contradiction!

“Word of god, if not included. - People bring it up whether he’s multiversal, but…did you read it?" - Liam (researcher and writer)

I guess I kind of didn't, that's on me...I'd say bravo, but it's fair game Liam, you missed out on a few things as well, which I'll get to later. (Again I like Liam, I'm not vengeful.)

*EDIT Big one here: Hey, you're probably wondering why my admittance of fault is crossed out (I don't delete information). Well it's because...I wasn't wrong. After doing more research and looking into it a bit I did read it right...Omniversal is more than Multiversal. Uni means 1, Multi means multiple, and Omni means ALL. They're not the same thing. By my belief, I was right and Alien X is Multiversal, at least low to mid tier. So I still think they were still wrong about that. Considering the difference between Omniversal and Multiversal (All > multiple), however I don't think he's high tier considering his human DNA in the mix, it's the same way how Atomic X is more controllable because he's less Celestialsapien. As for Anur Vladias, it's a place of Anti Life within a Universe, something that could be considered a void beyond universes to itself. Seeing how a group of Celestialsapiens could survive there to combat it, it seems like as a collective race they would be Omniversal. But one at the prime of their species would still parish. It sounds convoluted given other creator statements, but I think I'm gonna just keep with what I thought was right and now I know is right...considering on how much power they think Hal has later...

They brought up Dr. Manhattan not understanding the ring but...

How is he not nearly comparable to Alien X?! He just beat a Green Lantern by shattering his ring! I was even gonna do a COMPARISON ANALYSIS on the two of them. And even though he can't completely effect the power of Will, he still beats the user! And manipulate the energy to a degree. Hell, they don't show it, but this is a guy who calls all Magic in the DC Universe...garbage.

This cannot be a fair comparison especially when called upon in such away that has already been revealed in The Green Lantern #7, Where a whole universe is found within the ring itself....which Alien X can destroy with ease (He can indirectly manipulate Mana, similar way here for the Ring's energies). Plus, John Osterman has kinda distanced himself from emotion and lost connection to humanity in the course of Watchmen, so that seems like it was the reference to John not connecting to his emotions or what little he has to effect it. But Alien X has 3 embodiments of emotions. I'm not saying X is more powerful than Manhattan, not at all, I'm saying it's a matter of principle.

Hal just can't be compared on such a strong level to Manhattan like that, especially with all that backup.

6. The energy feedback from the Omnitrix, shouldn’t it protect Ben from Scissors?

"Not clear if removing a body part, would it activate if he’s been injured at all, unless it’s the watch at all being removed."

That's kinda up for specific's on Ben's view point through the Omnitrix, or at least the Omnitrix itself's knowledge of Ben's vitals and status.

"Hal could replacate energy pulse and adapt to take off the watch. Or power through it." True.

Besides that, they actually did something I didn't think they could do, they proved (in a certain way) that Hal can beat the Omnitrix's speed.

Are the Scissors faster than Big Bang? To calculate the Speed of Omnitrix AI, and apply for Cosmic inflation, the Anihilaarg, after 6 seconds of going off, began to form galaxies, meaning to block this, the Omnitrix's speed would have to be- 13 trillion times the speed of light, but 100,000 times slower than Hal Jordan. Hal created probs in order to scan the universe for Green Lanterns in a heartbeat, that's faster than EXE Megaman, nearly 60 zeroes long! Hal is faster than the Big Bang, faster than Ben, he could cut off the Omnitrix!....even though The Omnitrix, doesn't even need to be attached to Ben to save him: https://youtu.be/NHsQk51w9u4 Whoops.

But hey, "Purely animation for the sake of entertainment".

*EDIT: In that scene, the Omnitrix that saved him was the mark 1 Omnitrix that had been damaged through previous tampering. The upgraded version 2 would be far superior and save him without needing to be in alien form first. Shown by even the basic scanner's improvement in Omniverse. The semantics of Diamondhead/Chromastone DNA don't need to qualify as Ben has already been given that Anti Death Failsafe in the finale of the show. Not to mention Hal's own short comings to even out if we're really going there. Liam once said (on twitter) that if the watch was cut off of him, the AI could move the hand on its own (episode titled "Single Handed") but not do anything to actually save Ben...unless the AI used Master Control...which could be done. The watch can still automatically save him in death, being connected to Ben's own DNA and altering it. It doesn't matter if his hand is a mile away or in another dimension (as shown in the episode itself the Omnitrix allowed him to transform so long as it's still connected to a part of him, though that could be due to dimensional displacement), the failsafe will still save him even in death. Just imagine the rocks being guts and blood and by my account, I'm pretty sure it works the same. Plus, in "The Secret Of Chromastone" Diamondhead is shattered in pieces and Ben transforms back normal, perfectly fine as before. Genetic Damage, Repaired...(basically, he had a common cold earlier and it checkpoints him back to his original state, explained in Ultimate Alien with the Ultimatrix rebooting. Past sources have stated that when Ben skins his knee as an alien and changes back to human, it's still there, but not only is this technically retconned, it works so long as he's not past the line of death.)

As for the Time Travel aspects (which are more brought up in question 11),

"No entertaining real narrative to where Green Lantern time travels in comics, that's why he doesn't use it". -Sam Mitchell. This is true.

It's like in the same way of how, "oh Superman can just save the day in less than a second" but the writers come up with reasons to make it more risky and interesting. It's true sure, but comic writers don't keep consistent in the same way to be applied to Death Battle, and scaling the characters powers to a degree make sense. Thats why Ben doesn't always go Alien X, it's the final option that at times he never gets to use (or uses sparingly), and if he does, he could lose himself to. It's why the Omnitrix doesn't transform Ben at the last second to save him from the Chronosapien Time Bomb or Charmcaster's world engine (even though the Ultimatrix is inferior), because he's dying for the sake of the plot in the middle of his series. I can bring up loads of instances of Green Lantern dying without his ring saving him for the sake of the plot more times than Ben, but if it's about taking each character at they're best in Death Battle, why is it that it leans more leeway on Green Lantern's side and not Ben? Don't get me wrong, Green Lantern can do a lot people don't know about, he's incredibly powerful, but there should be a balanced focus here.

You either have Ben can transform to survive the Time Bomb (Scaled Clockwork to Alien X) or else No Green Lantern Time Travel, which he hasn't done in years and if not retconned, should be limited at best. For Thor Vs. Wonder Woman as an example, Thor had fucking Time manipulation and Matter alteration powers in earlier comics that wasn't even brought up! You can't just "will" plot devices and weaknesses that have been removed by the end of their series run or are not natural known and stated to the character. That doesn't make Ben invincible, he can still be killed by other opponents outside his universe, but not... Green Lantern.

7. If Batman could remove the ring, Why couldn’t Ben?

"Hal wasn’t combat ready, and Hal would have to be concentrated or threatened for the ring to be activated and attached at all times." This technically works but...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9rPRvfutg

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh........... HE'S BATMAN.

EDIT: Edit for the image below of Batman drawing blood from the Spectre with a kick. Turns out, Spectre let him hit him. "Batman: I--I didn't actually think I could hit you?" "Spectre: I thought it might make you feel better." Jesus Christ guys, that's just straight up wrong, why leave out the context if you're not trying to lie to the audience.

8. Hal’s ring has a time limit, Ben does not, shouldn't he win by time?

"That only works when they are equal. But Hal has the advantage, and could kill him faster before 24 hours."

But they aren't equal, I proved that. Even if they were, couldn't Alien X use time manipulation to prolong the fight until the ring wore out or heal himself as the fight went on. Again, Ben was ATOMIZED as Goop and survived: https://youtu.be/ajl-gY5352w and the Omnitrix is pretty sure to save Ben if there's time travel involved.

A Green Lantern once tried to time travel to save his ring's battery life and failed, they brought it up all the same. Doesn't that mean that Ben would have the endurance advantage far above him? Despite his willpower? The ring's power supply can't be affected by time travel, so that just means so that technically means he could just rewind time in a loop until the ring ran out and he seized an advantage. Hal was once frozen in suspended animation so technically speaking, yes he just could.

9. The Omnitrix failsafe could transform into aliens to save him.

"It doesn’t work all the time and can’t save him in time, like the Chronosapian time bomb."

That's true sort of...wait a minute isn't that only by example? Ben has like 3-5 resurrection and failsafe feats, where as pre crisis Hal has only 1 or 2 cursory feats. You're grading these characters at their maximum potential so Ben should be able to do that. But still, Hal doesn't have the ability to wipe him from existence in the way that you think. Also the fact that Ben just didn't know about the Sotobro effect for the Omnitrix to use Clockwork and after Ben Prime was brought back, he was likely briefed, already having experience in time travel *and Clockwork can do it genetically. Also he dies for the sake of the plot as mentioned before, same for that time he was almost killed as Clockwork in the episode "Catch a Falling Star", but at the end of the series this was implied as not really a problem anymore. "The Omnitrix had a failsafe that would never let me die" -Ben with THE PROPER Omnitrix.

The adaptation and survival feats don't add up because Ben is fucking broken: https://twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1126914344476975105

10. Green Lantern time travel inconsistent and Hal could lose his memory?

"Other green lanterns have time traveled before. The Time Ray, another time travel device by the Solarites (Solarians), erased Hal’s memory (temporarily), so GL time travel is flawless."

Doesn't that mean that Hal's mind can be effected by outside forces in Green Lantern form? Wait that actually makes more plot holes than fixing them? Ben can time travel the same too, as Clockwork scaled to Alien X, and as stated before Green Lanterns time travel is inconsistent if they're just cherry picking plot devices (which I'm not convicting them of doing out right, but I just don't know what they are doing?!). Worse, in another example of time travel that was floating around on twitter during this debate: "Time Travel's much tougher since the Crisis, honey! If I hadn't made the journey before, I'm not sure we could have done now." - Hal talking to Arisia while arriving 3724 years in the future. Hal still has time travel powers and remembers the crisis...but his abilities have been weakened as many other after Crisis (not to say that that should be the case for a Death Battle where the characters should be at their best, but how exactly does this work then when Hal shows limits).

11. The Sotobro effect?

Finally they bring this up, and say-

"The Sotobro creates a ripple effect that can be detected. Theres no real indication that Ben Prime knows about the Sotobro Effect, alternate Ben knows about the Sotobro effect not Ben Prime, and no watch ben uses clockwork to effect time."

Yeah that's true, but "no watch" Ben is inexperienced, and by the end of it, Ben Prime must have been briefed in some way or scales beyond him. Besides that time bomb was synced to Ben's timeline, and Hal doesn't have the means to wipe someone from existence like that. Even if we're assuming Hal could just time travel to stop Ben from transforming into Alien X without creating an alternate timeline, this doesn't fit in the category of timeline destruction completely, as events to something Ben could just transform into to survive (Alien X is beyond dimensional beings like the Naljians, and described as beyond time itself, so a complete Timeline erase of Ben would make sense, not just a specific point. Though it can be certainly some form of weakness, just not in the context of death).

Plus (if we're going off just GL in the presented battle and alternate reality rules), the Time Portal is right there, behind him in the fight! Alien X has the means to follow through, and continue to fight Hal. Jesus Christ, Avengers Endgame just came out this same year spouting these same ideas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWYNml-Y5LY (Even if the battle was being made before the movie came out, it still doesn't work.)

*EDIT: Brought to my attention in Kuro The Artist's response video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCN6fZZQ-cc&t=13s

Once Ben transformed into Clockwork, IE being in the form, he was able to sense the Sotobro Effect and reverse it by his own abilities, not based by knowledge. So genetics would be the case. They do bring up the case of, "if it was like that why didn't the Omnitrix transform Ben into Clockwork to prevent it" which is fair enough to say of being slaved to the plot of the show, but it goes back to Sam's comment on there being No entertaining real narrative to Hal's time manipulation abilites, So by that logic I would say Ben has more experience in Time Manipulation. Even then, scaling to Alien X would prove this. The form is super automated and so powerful that Ben doesn't need that much knowledge that he already has.

12. The Omnitrix will not let him die?

"The failsafe didn’t protect him to save him from the timebomb, and isn’t consistant." That's true for story purposes but the time bomb was once again synced to his Timeline and Hal doesn't have the same type of powers. Also, when the hell does Death Battle rely on plot devices for one character while disregarding the other? Ben has had 3 resurrections and near death experiences. While Hal's force bubbles can hold the Crime Syndicate, yet break against regular Kryptonians and super beings more times than not. So where's the curve here? Hal's got stronger shields for that one time, while Ben's Omnitrix won't let him die. Remember, you're grading the characters at their maximum potential. Hal's concentration is crucial, while Ben's power is more automative without him trying. It's Hal's whole thing. He's never resurrected on his own before without outside help from others (Example: Being rescued by Wonder Woman and Alan Scott from the afterlife or Kyle saving him from the Emerald Space).

13. CAPTAIN ATOM

One fight that they did bring up as an argument point was Green Lantern Vs. Captain Atom- who can create and destroy a universe in a nanosecond, and could compare to Alien X...kind of (he limits his power in most cases and has struggled before). But uhhh....how did that fight end again?.....

I'm shocked....seriously...you can't see my face but I'm shocked of course...

This is FUCKING RIDICULOUS!!!, they think we're not going to check! What the Hell?!

And I admire these guys, really I do, so it's even more staggering!

So yeah....that's really all of it, or at least everything I didn't bring up before. And the verdict is...still the same...kind of... Jesus....I need sleep...

If I can end out on something, I wanna say that, Green Lantern is awesome and a great character, so is Ben, and neither of these two are invincible, it's just the power scale (even by Pre Crisis standards) doesn't make sense to each other once Alien X drops into frame. It's an incredibly close fight and these two were practically made for each other. But this battle, that's made 2 million views and god knows how much money....doesn't work. It's probably, by definition, the first Bad Death Battle episode, beyond who won. And thankfully, Ben Singer is one to take criticism, as said on the podcast, which is great! Improve and grow... and you know just.... don't lie or not completely research what you're doing or...sell a card game? Seriously, I'm not against it at all but... how's that gonna work? (I support it)

In hindsight of all of this, this battle is really just too perplexingly F-ed up to the point where I'd actually say they were Bias because of management: Death Battle partnered with Rooster Teeth + partnered with DC comics for world building their RT shows= Death Battle optimally owned by Warner Brothers. Or maybe it's just for insighting internet outrage that boosts ratings and it's just how they interpret it to create a more of a debate culture around it. Brings more people to the channel if that's it's purpose. I understand capitalism and business, and I'm sort of supportive of it in the right way of running film and animation, but if this is true, this is needlessly paranoid and manipulative of an audience that should be taken with respect. Both audiences, of both sides.

And hopefully, down the line, this fight will correct itself. Maybe a few years later bring it back and actually do the research and facts right or explain everything properly. I'm all for second takes or chances, whether Hal or Ben wins (though I'd prefer Ben just for the sense of it). But until then...we got this. And I'm just sad because of it.

To quote a pig:

THAT'S ALL FOLKS.

.........

wait no it's not because, *EDIT!: Upon further research into their Qna video, Liam says this: "The DC universe is larger-it's diameter is at least 200 trillion lightyears which is much larger than ours-the energy that would be required to create a universe-the total mass energy of the universe of that size would be about 10 BILLION times more than ours, which means that Kyle (use of example) able to produce 10 BILLION times more energy just off that Big Bang....- Hal scales to Kyle..." Liam at Time Code- 52:29 of the video, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQujpsgd428&t=56s

So uhhh....wow....I guess that settles it....I mean....you guys either didn't check for typos in the episode or just made that up on the spot...Because in the episode-

https://twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1135631090805280768

Do you see a BILLIONin that written paragraph? Or were they low balling him? Because I find it sickly humorous, that it's 10 times more energy BEFORE the backlash, and now it's 10 billion AFTER backlash, just to seal the deal. W...T....Fuck.

EDIT: How can I believe this to be a mistype? They've used the DC universe's scale before in 2 episodes prior and never brought this up. Plus mistypes like in Batman Vs Black Panther only happen to the letter, "Bladed Gauntlet" instead of "Bladed Gauntlets". But a whole word?! Plus, in the episode itself they said the DC Universe was 100 trillion lightyears in diameter.....not 200 trillion...what the **** is happening?! (So then it's like what- 5 billion time more energy? Call me unfairly biased all you want in the comments, but I don't believe this.)

I cannot believe this is happening....really I don't know how to. Now I'm just sad again. Eat your feelings everyone (Jokingly).

Good read, and I agree. I don't know much about either GL or Ben but Alien X is just too OP.

@takenstew22: Thanks man! Your like the first nice comment I've ever gotten on my blog, last guy said "Too long, Didn't read", sooooo you rock! It would mean a lot if you shared this around just to start the conversation, maybe. But besides that, thank you!

I agree with you but also disagree on Hal being universal I feel like he just exploited weaknesses that anyone else could have done instead of just having the raw power to do it (in addition to the mentioned assistance and or amps)

I also disagree on Hal being able to beat all of Ben's other aliens, Ben's strengths isn't his raw power GL obviously outclasses him on that but rather Ben's sheer versatility and hard counters to GL (Again Chromastone would wipe the floor with GL)

@lopresti101: Np man!

@contingency: Well that is true (I actually did a lot of the math on all of Ben's aliens and feats I'll probably post later on) Ben is more sheerly versatile, but they were right on the fact that in another situation, he'd have to keep up as Hal changed up options at all times. Chromastone is probably my favorite Alien in the show, but his durability ain't great. Like when he tried to absorb the source of energy in Charmcaster's engine, only to end up being absorbed himself. Universal power ain't his thing, yet he's somehow taken blasts from the Dagon, a multi dimensional energy being? But good points, still true.

it sucked and this is perfect. i wonder if anyone from screwattack ever visit this cite just to see what people think

@wilkiins17: I don't know if they ever will, or who knows if they would be kind to this kind of criticism (which I'm totally fine being wrong, if the info is explained well). The fact was even if Hal had won (which I'd be totally fine with, again), the fight analysis was horrendous, and the wrap-up didn't explain or disprove anything beyond the fact that Alien X hasn't shown any of his feats (only spoken upon or confirmed by writers) and Green Lanterns survive pre-crisis. And the fight was great, up until the end, which was like Avengers End Game plotholes, except with none of the distractingly fun stuff because these fights have to be 5 minutes minimum.

@lopresti101: Chromastone has his energy limits bus so does Hal, Hal has about 24 hours worth of energy and while its certainly a lot Chromastone did in one of his episodes manage to channel the energy from three stars in minutes or seconds. On top of that Chromastone may not be durable to physical blows but all of Hal's options are just energy constructs (like Gwen's hard-light constructs)

It's important to note that after Chromastone is "killed" and he is revived as Diamond Head he still has access to Chromastone later on with out having to do anything to regain him.

This means that Ben has near unlimited lives with Master Control, since there are one million aliens in the Omnitrix and even if Hal could kill one per second that would take 277 hours or 10 days worth of Green Lantern recharges to deplete them and this is assuming the Omnitrix is unable to replenish the lost lives like Azmuth or Ben 10,000 does

Yeah, okay. I get it. I'll put them back on your playlist. While you're at it, how about giving me master control? Nice try, but I'm already in enough trouble with Azmuth. There you go I just unlocked everything you've ever become up until now.

They can be readded to the Omnitrix and from the way we see Ben 10k do it, it's as simple as moving the dial in a pattern much quicker than it would take the Green Lantern to recharge his ring.

@contingency:

For your first part, that was Sugilite, powered by the Petropian Crystal and to get to the stars, he had to fly 5 million times Light Speed (*EDIT: 5,486,247,176.71 FTL) to get there and did within 10 minutes.

But Ben hasn’t really shown that type of speed or power in the form before, and might require specific circumstances and further research.

Gwen can do energy constructs, of course, but they aren’t entirely comparable seeing as she’s in her human form (not as powerful as Anodite) and has limits compared to Green Lantern despite being proclaimed by the Dagon as one of the most powerful beings in her universe. So Feedback could do the same as Chromastone by likely kinda better despite Chromastone having the “depth” advantage being able to cover his sides.

I actually brought up Chromastone’s death in my review above, but that’s not really Chromastone’s doing, it’s the Omnitrix, it resurrected him as Diamondhead. If it was him, why didn’t he save himself from Charmcaster’s engine? (Ultimatrix is proven inferior btw).

As for the depleting millions of aliens by killing them….? I’m sorry, I don’t think that would happen, it’s as likely as Ben duplicating himself and transforming into different aliens from each other again like last time, but even then that didn’t turn out great. But funny idea.

Ultimate Ben 10,000 put them back in his ultimatrix, but it’s likely Ben could just do it himself now with experience and doesn’t matter at the moment now.

I love Chromastone and I wish all of Feedbacks feats were his, but he doesn’t really scale as better than feedback. Plus I still think Ben beats GL by just using Alien X to duplicate their abilities TEN FOLD!

Thanks for writing this, I like talking (or typing) about Chromastone even though for some reason he keeps getting nerfed…

@lopresti101: You are correct however Sugilite is confirmed to be the only member of his species and we know the Omitrix copies the alien DNA and as such at-least the same capabilities of the host the DNA came from so the feats are interchangeable. Yes Sugilite flew millions of light years (Question how did you know the distance or are you guesstimating? I ask cause I've been wanting to figure out the distance between Earth and Petrosapiens home planet) but he only had to because the ritual to recreate the planet requires three stars not necessarily that he can't do it with any star but rather he can't restore the planet with out three stars worth of power.

By the end of "The Secret of Chromastone" Sugilite (and in extension Chromastone) gains the ability to create the Petropian Crystal from his body, it makes sense considering Tetrax describes it as a back up drive and so Chromastone likely copied it once he got it the first time (So Ben technically has it and can use it with Chromastone)

Oh no I didn't mean Chromastone can self resurrect himself I meant that Chromastone if killed won't be eliminated from the Omnitrix, so say if Hal someone manages to kill Chromastone then Ben can still use Chromastone after reviving as Diamond Head. Also I don't see why it wouldn't work, in Ben 10,000 Returns each time Eon killed an alien with a Chrono ray Ben didn't die but the Alien did and as you said this was the inferior Ultimatrix (so the original Omnitrix should have the same capability, I mean after all we see this with Feedback where Feedback dies instead of Ben)

Ben's Aliens are like lives, he can't choose himself over them they will always die first before he does. And it's important to note every future code Ben 10k did or Azumuth did Prime Ben can remember because Prime Ben has eidetic memory

I tagged the relevant time showing the clip of Ben's memory, overall I think you are right on Chromastone not scaling to Feedback but Feedback still has confirmed ability to absorb Hardlight constructs and is more durable than Feedback.

I watched every good Ben 10 show religiously, but Ben will lose. Hal and Ben were wanked in Deathbattle, but DB are just wankers so that's no surprise.

@major_hellstrom: Ben wasn't wanked at all, they didn't even use any of his energy absorption aliens or his top tier ones like NRG and Gravattack.

They literally only gave attention to Heatblast and Fourarms which are Ben's lower tier aliens.

@contingency: They literally only gave attention to Heatblast and Fourarms.......Alian X had an entire section dedicated to him.

@major_hellstrom: An entire section of him that they got wrong, it's like they did the bare minimum of research.

They forgot Alien X could casually penetrate through shields that tanked big bang level attacks (And has, Alien X busts through the Contemelia ship shields that no sold a big bang later on)

Ignored Alien X can literally grow so large that Hal can't fight Alien X

Ignored Alien X time powers would be at-least multiversal (on par with Clockwork)

There entire section then went on to downplay Alien X as low level universal lmao.

@contingency: So they did have a section on him but they were wrong, still disproves your statement of them only doing Fourarms and Heatblast

@major_hellstrom: Okay sure congratulations they mentioned a grand total of four aliens (one mid tier, one low tier and one high tier then Alien X), wow omg good job you're right.

Makes you feel so much better huh?

You're probably one of those Hal Jordan wankers tbh,

@contingency: Yes, it does make me feel better. I always thought people who used the word "literally" literally didn't know the meaning of it, and I was right.

I mean I've had more than 60 debates (CaVs and tournament matches) and never used Hal Jordan in any one of them, nor have I ever debated for him in the battle forums to my knowledge. So if I were a Hal wanker, I'm doing a bad job of it.

@major_hellstrom: Ok so do you have anything relevant to add to the discussion other than irrelevant nitpicking?

Well the fact that you think Ben was being wanked shows your bias, Ben's actually one of the most underrated characters in fiction. Cause as I've mentioned recently, what the hell is Green Lantern going to do against attack that overwhelm shielding that can shrugg off big bang level attacks?

Hal gets his shit kicked in by planet tier people all the time.

@major_hellstrom: I don't think anyone is really saying that Ben would win. The main complain I see is that Alien X should have won. Which I agree with.

Also, the stunt Hal pulled in the end was especially addressed by the show. Two time travelers cannot do that to each other.

@rbt: Even with out Alien X

Ben has

• Energy Absorption (Chromastone/Feedback)
• FTL Auto Reflex (Even if Ben's arm got cut off the fail safe would still work for subsequent attacks, Ben's hand irc got cut off when Ben was sent to another dimension and transformations still worked regardless of the distance between them. Ben has Master Control so he wouldn't need to hit the watch if his arm got cut off only thing)
• 1,000,000 Lives (If Ben's alien form dies it'll die before he does)
• NRG (Can literally no sell a blitz from Hal Jordan because his armor is nigh indestructible and if it does get penetrated the body underneath is intangible in base form)
• Echo Echo (Ben has faked his death by keeping a spare echo echo while the copy of Ben is killed) + Nanomech (Ben has shrunk himself to get inside the head of an Evil Waybig and then fried the brain while inside it)
• Gravattack, Gravity field that redirects all attacks and can create fields strong enough to hold FTL enemies in place and summon a blackhole inside them.

It's not wank, he stopped a FTL target in its track with his gravity fields then accidentally while trying to subdue it created a black hole.

@contingency: You tagged me first, so not sure what you want exactly.

If you want to go that route a Green Lantern's shields can contain a big bang.

Yeah and Ben fights mid tiers more often than he fights universal threats.

Well, the guy just replied to you so, I think someone thinks Ben would win.

If you want to use Outliers as the base representation for a character then technically nearly every alien Ben had held the Big Bang in the finale

Yes Ben fights Mid tiers more than he does Universal threats but so does Hal Jordan, what's your point?

Something tells me you have a habit of ignoring the context of a character like hundred a fifty paragraph devoid of context, for example every time Ben 10 is dealing with a major threat he uses a high tier but most times he doesn't need to use a high tier because many of his mid tiers can hard counter the powers of his opponents

• Universal destruction? Alien X
• Universal opponent? Alien X
• Multiversal Time attack? Clockwork
• Moon level Malware? Feedback absorbs all his energy
• Base Malware? Diamond Head locks his nanomachines in place with super dense crystals
• FTL Opponent? Uses Gravity from Gravattack because he knows it will slow super fast opponents down
• Alien Robot threat? Just use his mid tier bricks to handle it
• Skyfather entity appearing? Using Ultimate Waybig
• Vilgax? Use Way Big twice (would have gone thrice if the Omnitrix didn't give him Chromastone instead of Way Big)
• Tech based enemy? Uses Upgrade consistently to beat them
• Enemy that drains life force energy? Goes Ghostfreak to be immune to it

Ectera and ectera, Ben uses aliens to fit the scenario of the enemy he is fighting

It'll be dishonest to say Ben doesn't use his aliens to counter the abilities or traits of his opponents, for the majority of his engagements at-least.

Partly right and partly wrong, this is what will happen Hal will destroy a few of Ben's go to Aliens but considering he has close to a million and Master Control active he will realize Hal is using energy constructs then absorb all Hal's energy with Chromastone then one shot Hal.

@contingency:

If you want to use Outliers as the base representation for a character then technically nearly every alien Ben had held the Big Bang in the finale

When the big bang went off the spaceship Rook was on was also unscathed.

Yes Ben fights Mid tiers more than he does Universal threats but so does Hal Jordan, what's your point?

No, Hal fights high tiers and rarely dabbles with mid tiers.

Something tells me you have a habit of ignoring the context of a character like hundred a fifty paragraph devoid of context, for example every time Ben 10 is dealing with a major threat he uses a high tier but most times he doesn't need to use a high tier because many of his mid tiers can hard counter the powers of his opponents

I ignore context? You realize I literally said what you are saying now, right?

"If you are about to say that Ben 10 doesn't use them (his strongest aliens) because he doesn't need to, then that would be true and I would agree."

I predicted your argument before you even posted....

It'll be dishonest to say Ben doesn't use his aliens to counter the abilities or traits of his opponents, for the majority of his engagements at-least.

I never said that.

Partly right and partly wrong, this is what will happen Hal will destroy a few of Ben's go to Aliens but considering he has close to a million and Master Control active he will realize Hal is using energy constructs then absorb all Hal's energy with Chromastone then one shot Hal.

Yeah, Hal defeated a Sun-Eater, and they aren't sun eaters by name only. The Sun-Eater drained 30% of another Lantern's power very quickly, so it could drain Hal as well, yet it didn't. This is obviously a higher end feat but I'm merely pointing out that Hal isn't new to fighting energy drainers, probably half of his enemies have some form of absorption or energy draining.

@major_hellstrom: And Hal's shields have been taken down by much less than Big Bang forces, significantly less and very commonly so. Therefore as you can see outliers are stupid nonsense that can easily be pointed out.

By high tier I certainly hope you don't mean universal tiers, cause Hal has struggled with the likes of Sinestro,Braniac,Mongul who while powerful aren't universal level by any means in their base.

Yes you wasted time posting this

Ben 10 has had 4 relevant shows 46 (Alien Force), 52 (original show), 80 (Omniverse), 52 (Ultimate Alien) meaning he has 230 episodes and appearances, roughly speaking. According to the wiki Ben uses Alien X appears 8 times, Atomix 5 times and Clockwork 12 times, I mention them since they are his top aliens IMO. So his top 3 appears 25 times which is just a little over 10% of the time, throw Way Big in there since he is one of the strongest as well and you'd get 18% (Way Big appears 23 times). Yes, this is a crude calculation, but the fact of the matter is that Ben 10 does not use his strongest aliens a majority of the time.

this wall of text here is irrelevant, it bars the fact that most of the episodes he fights high tier enemies involve him using his higher level aliens where as the majority of his normal episodes don't involve significant threats only those near the season finales do you often see him pick up his high tiers. You didn't predict shit, you're just wasting time with irrelevant red herrings that anyone with common knowledge of Ben 10 series would already know and can easily shoot down

If you are about to say that Ben 10 doesn't use them because he doesn't need to, then that would be true and I would agree. But Ben 10 has no way of knowing how powerful Hal is, and let's be honest his go to aliens are Jetray, Big Chill, Diamondhead, Heatblast, Swampfire, Humungousaur. So Hal would just destroy his go to aliens and end the fight.

This is of the few relevant statements you have made and the fact is he actually does

Ben has various aliens meat shields and a common tactic of his is tank with a bruiser, if the bruiser gets ass kicked he will switch to a form that will be better suited. As you can see the comic scan I posted Ben realizes very quick to use which alien best suited and it'll only take him seconds to realize how to counter Hal.

Yeah, Hal defeated a Sun-Eater, and they aren't sun eaters by name only. The Sun-Eater drained 30% of another Lantern's power very quickly, so it could drain Hal as well, yet it didn't. This is obviously a higher end feat but I'm merely pointing out that Hal isn't new to fighting energy drainers, probably half of his enemies have some form of absorption or energy draining.

Well we have Chromastone's higher end feat of channeling the energy from not one nor two but three stars, this energy he then used to reform an entire planet all of which he did in mere minutes (or seconds depending if they time skipped or not) even if Chromastone couldn't drain Hal all once he still negates 99% of Hal's options because he can absorb any energy attacks launched at him or phased.

Eventually Hal will run out of energy and we see Chromastone casually strip away protective shields and his range can easily be star system. (Considering again all three stars aligned for him in the sol system to channel the energy)

• Hal can't punch Chromastone because his punches are reinforced by hardlight and Chromastone can phase or absorb them
• Hal can't shoot Chromastone because he can absorb plenty of energy trivially or phase through them
• Hal can't use a construct of hardlight to hit Chromastone with because it's made out of hardlight energy he can drain
• Hal throwing stuff will be ineffective since Chromastone can fly into space where nothing can really hit him while he also drains GL's battery from far away or close whatever since Hal is helpless.

Ben would win due to Alien X. Hal would beat all of Ben’s other aliens though.

@thewatcherking: I disagree, with Master control and alien like Chromastone Ben can counter GL pretty solidly. Green Lantern has a ton of versatility but all of it is based on energy and Ben's energy absorption aliens are REALLY good even for DC standards.

Ben's also not dumb, once his bricks lose to Hal he will switch to more esoteric counters like Ghost Freak (invisibility and intangible), Nanomech (Shrink to a nano scale and try to fry Hal's brain from the inside), Gravattack (try to catch Hal Jordan in a black hole) NRG (Out-tank Hal with intangibility and super durable armor)

Yes Hal can speed blitz but speed blitz only kills the alien not Ben, Ben can master control to an intangible alien to counter Hal's blitzes and have enough time to use the aliens that would actually work on Hal.

Ben doesn’t have Ghostfreak anymore. He escaped the omnitrix when Ben was a kid iirc.

Ben has never, and would never use nanomech to fry someone’s brain.

He’s only intangible with NRG when outside the suit due to being pure energy. He’s not hurting Hal in that suit, and probably can’t drain him so NRG isn’t cutting it. Also Chromastone was killed by Vilgax, Hal’s output would be enough to put him down(though Ben wouldn’t die due to the watch).

Feel free to respond to this however I have nothing further to say.

1) Ben does have Ghostfreak he uses him in Omniverse to beat Michael. Death Battles is using composite Ben for the battle

2) Ben has he used it to defeat Way Big, Ben again in Deathbattles is fighting to the death

NRG is for tanking Hal not fighting him, NRG Is the perfect defense because the suit is nigh indestructible and if Hal does manage to break it he still won't be able to kill Ben due to NRG's natural intangible state, I only mention NRG for Ben's ability to survive Hal's blitzes since NRG Is Ben's most durable alien outside of Alien X.

You are right, Chromastone is squishy and got killed by Vilgax but that was because Vilgax used his natural strength. Hal doesn't have natural strength he used hardlight for his punches, Chromastone can phase or absorb hardlight so it won't hurt him there for Hal can't hurt Chromastone with his normal means

@contingency:

And Hal's shields have been taken down by much less than Big Bang forces, significantly less and very commonly so. Therefore as you can see outliers are stupid nonsense that can easily be pointed out.

Are you arguing based on consistency for Hal but based on whatever you want for Ben? And let's not forget that Ben repeatedly struggles and fails against less than universal threats as well.

By high tier I certainly hope you don't mean universal tiers, cause Hal has struggled with the likes of Sinestro,Braniac,Mongul who while powerful aren't universal level by any means in their base.

Oh, so that's why. You must be relatively new here if you don't even know how tiering works here. There isn't a specific set of tiers everyone follows but generally

Yes you wasted time posting this

this wall of text here is irrelevant,

So are all of your posts, if you wanted to be relevant you should make a debunk video or something.

it bars the fact that most of the episodes he fights high tier enemies involve him using his higher level aliens where as the majority of his normal episodes don't involve significant threats only those near the season finales do you often see him pick up his high tiers. You didn't predict shit, you're just wasting time with irrelevant red herrings that anyone with common knowledge of Ben 10 series would already know and can easily shoot down

The fact is that Ben does not use his high tier aliens often, period. Your argument that he does when needed is not even an argument because I acknowledged that before you even posted.

Well we have Chromastone's higher end feat of channeling the energy from not one nor two but three stars, this energy he then used to reform an entire planet all of which he did in mere minutes (or seconds depending if they time skipped or not) even if Chromastone couldn't drain Hal all once he still negates 99% of Hal's options because he can absorb any energy attacks launched at him or phased.

Sun-Eaters are galaxy-level threats but 3 stars is cool too.

Eventually Hal will run out of energy and we see Chromastone casually strip away protective shields and his range can easily be star system. (Considering again all three stars aligned for him in the sol system to channel the energy)

Hal can't punch Chromastone because his punches are reinforced by hardlight and Chromastone can phase or absorb them

Hal can't shoot Chromastone because he can absorb plenty of energy trivially or phase through them

Hal can't use a construct of hardlight to hit Chromastone with because it's made out of hardlight energy he can drain

Hal throwing stuff will be ineffective since Chromastone can fly into space where nothing can really hit him while he also drains GL's battery from far away or close whatever since Hal is helpless.

True, even if every corps teamed up to fight Chromastone they would all lose since he can absorb everything without limits.

@contingency: I wasn’t aware of those first two examples since I only watched omniverse episodes with Alien X. Ghostfreak may be able to give him a win(not sure), otherwise yeah Hal still beats all of his aliens.

Are you arguing based on consistency for Hal but based on whatever you want for Ben? And let's not forget that Ben repeatedly struggles and fails against less than universal threats as well.

Ben's actually very consistent, the difference between these two characters is he has various aliens with various power levels. He actually has an excuse for his varying performance while Hal Jordan doesn't (Unless we just assume he gets temp buffs and outside hellp for his major feats), Ben does not repeatedly struggle with groups most of the series he's actually steam rolling anyone that's not Vilgax tier or with certain hax.

Oh, so that's why. You must be relatively new here if you don't even know how tiering works here. There isn't a specific set of tiers everyone follows but generally

Uh Hal's not high tier if he's dealing with universal threats, he'd be above Skyfather

The fact is that Ben does not use his high tier aliens often, period. Your argument that he does when needed is not even an argument because I acknowledged that before you even posted.

Ben has always used his high tier aliens for big or major battles (and in this case this would qualify as a major battle), saying other wise is a blatant lie because I can point out to every season finale and series finale and major story arc where he explicitly uses a high tier because his normal aliens aren't powerful enough.

Sun-Eaters are galaxy-level threats but 3 stars is cool too.

You said they eat stars not galaxies :v

If we're going by accomplishments and actually ignoring the limits and context of their enemy engagements Ben has defeated four multiversal threats (Eon with Chrono Navigator who was going to destroy every reality in existence to have ever existed which is technically omniversal, Vilgax's Chronosapien bomb that destroyed a multiverse, Malturant who also was going to destroy a multiverse, and a fellow Celestialsapien which canonically changed the appearance of a multiverse) but sure lets not act like they are only a galaxy threat because they're an entire species not individual galaxy busters roaming around.

True, even if every corps teamed up to fight Chromastone they would all lose since he can absorb everything without limits.

I wasn't aware being able to defeat one Green Lantern meant that Chromastone could beat 3,000 it's not like this is a 1v1 and Hal's energy limits don't surpasses Chromastones excellent anti-energy capabilities.

Would you prefer if we go with wanktastic Hal Jordan that is beyond Omnipotence?

Or debate with feats and gauging said feats with out abusing outliers or taking out of context stuff like Hal stopping the U-Bomb single handedly (but the fact was he had help from the entire Green Lantern corps)

What makes you think Hal could beat his energy absorption aliens tho?

That's kinda of like Hal Jordan's kryptonite, he really hasn't fought enemies with the scale of energy absorption Chromastone and Feedback can use/apply

Like I can understand Hal beating Waybig,Diamondhead,Big Chill,Four Arms,XLR8,Ultimate Echo Echo but I just don't see how he's getting around Chromastone's energy phasing and absorption.

Hal's punches and constructs won't work because they're energy remember, energy attacks don't work on Chromastone's powerset.

Ben wins.

But Why everyone is talking about Deathbattle?

It's Just like a Vs battles Wiki crap.

@contingency:

Sugilite has the Petropian Crystal, I’m pretty sure Ben would have used that power in the shows if the writers were more consistent. As for the 5 million times the speed of light feat, I compared the stars from the earth to the Big Dipper so the distance could probably be further (I’m gonna make a blog about it later).

Diamondhead did that feat With The Crystal. That’s how there’s sense to it. Alien X honestly could just do the same thing without a Crystal and then some.

I….you know I’ll give it to ya, but Hal has gone up against planetary threats before, and Alien X just scales over Chromastone that it seems easier for the scale.

Also I’ve seen Kuro’s video….I WAS THE ONE WHO MADE THE OPENING CLIP….Look in the description of his vid….

As for another comment, Ghostfreak, Upgrade, Nanomech…none of those are gonna work on Hal. Hal has defended from microscopic, technomorphic and possession threats before. Green Lantern’s will and might would certainly rid them from his body.

Hal has overwhelmed Energy Absorbers before, multiple times, he once blasted a creature with energy to feed him that he got so powerful his planets gravity couldn’t support him. As stated above he Atomized Polaris by feeding him energy. And even though I think Feedback stands a great chance, he couldn’t win due to his short coming…..but when scaled to Alien X…

Waybig lifting a giant interstellar portal in the season finale of Ben 10 Alien Force season 2, and was calculated to weigh more than the moon.- http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Golden_Void/Waybig_lifts_an_interstellar_portal_(Redo)

Even though he couldn’t beat Hal with this feat, why didn’t they bring it up?

As for Chromastone, my point was he has certain undefinable limits shown in the show, while Hals limits are definable and scale higher than him. Go back and read above about how Alien X can absorb Hals energy, I added it.

@major_hellstrom: ("Watched Religiously" meet too, lol) I do get it, but even if Hal was the victor fair and square, this fight didn't explain it! Why didn't they go deeper into the feats more, it could have been quick or maybe just 2 minutes longer. I don't wanna paint my own Bias on this but.....this should have been the season finale. The show stopper of larger portions.

Mhm-

God there are so many comments, I don't know how I'm gonna respond to them all! Until then, GROW MY CHILDREN, READERS AND COMMENTERS ALIKE! SPREAD THE WORD AND SHARE THIS POST!

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@lopresti101: That’s because this is Death Battle, they don’t explain crap. They rely on bait for views, they can’t post often and abimation costs moeny, so they make sure to spend little time on research and they make sure to trigger fans, to get more traction.

@galactic_1000: Well, Death battle is known for their VS battles, accurate or not. They’re funny guys and semi smart people who make great fights and back it up with science. Only problem is, they didn’t do that for this fight. Nor did they look into Ben’s aliens more prominent feats and scale them to Alien X.

@rbt: Exactly. Ben can survive a lot of Hal's attacks by himself thanks to the Omnitrix, but Ben's aliens can't hurt Hal, except for one. Alien X.

In/during the time of Doctor Strange Vs Doctor Fate DB, they said that abilities that are the same as the other can basically match the opponent. IE: I can go back in time and kill you, but you can go back in time and kill me too. Making it useless. How they forgot THE SOTOBRO EFFECT that they even established in DSVSDF, is beyond me. I don't know what they were thinking.

Even if they explain this all on the podcast next week, and Hal becomes the victor, they should have brought it up in the episode proper as an example piece. Still making the episode perfunctory.

Alien X isn't Really Multiversal.

True but he still should stronger than hal..

We both Agree with that.

I think it's because their fans take everything they say as gospel.

The fact that I used to watch them religiously and actually believe some of their claims is kinda embarrassing. Though I do admit they're not always wrong and they do make entertaining fights.

This isn't a battle. Alien X is far more powerful than GL Hal Jordan. Only if you are talking White Lantern does his power become similar in scale, but WL doesn't have the consistency and feats.

Celestialsapiens are born "beyond the multiverse itself". It's the only thing they got legitimately right in the episode, and it's a feat all it's own. Even if he's not multiverse but only more Universal than Hal.....yeah then we all agree, he's stronger than Hal. All the same.

@redshift_bacon: Sadly it is a battle...and it's a Death Battle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hos7hv1Cn8

((I will give credit that it's at least a close fight given similarities but no, this was ridiculous))

they are born beyond the universe...No they are not multiversal. I already agree that they should be above Hal regardless.