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#1 Posted by Life_Without_Progress (24635 posts) - - Show Bio
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Deadpool & Spider-Man

VS

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Elektra & Gorgon

In character

Winner by KO, Incapacitation or Death

Random encounter

Standard gear and abilities

Fight takes place at an unpopulated city setting at night

Who'd win? For what reasons?

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#3 Posted by HellionVulcan (7255 posts) - - Show Bio

Torn between Spidy and Gorgon.

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#4 Edited by deactivated-5c830d4e319e6 (4952 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2.

Gorgon > Spider-Man.

Elektra > Deadpool.

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#5 Posted by dondave (41753 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

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#6 Posted by Batvibe12 (5710 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6556 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#8 Edited by Life_Without_Progress (24635 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_living_tribunal_24: Yeah but he doesn't spam that attack that much in a fight against notable combatants from what I've remembered from Enemy of The State and Avengers World.

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#9 Posted by g2_ (11623 posts) - - Show Bio

Gorgon solos.

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#10 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6734 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. I don't see why Spider-Man can't just web over Gorgon's face and then incap him. Elektra isn't really a challenge for Spidey at all, so as long as Wade keeps her occupied for a bit while Peter takes out Gorgon, Team 1 can win.

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#11 Edited by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. Wade is more than capable of giving Elektra a fight and peter shouldn't have that much trouble with Tomi.

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#12 Posted by GCA (139 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by Morpheus_ (34487 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on the match-ups. This is, essentially, Tomi vs Peter.

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#14 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16182 posts) - - Show Bio

This basically comes down to Gorgon vs. Peter. I'm taking Gorgon.

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#15 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: woah.....you still around huh?!?!?!

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#16 Posted by phoenixdiamond616 (1708 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6734 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone have any reasons why Gorgon could beat Peter?

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#18 Posted by phoenixdiamond616 (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone have any reasons why Gorgon could beat Peter?

he is by far faster and much more skilled...

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#19 Posted by God_Spawn (43161 posts) - - Show Bio

I’ll back team 1. Deadpool or Elektra get taken out relatively quickly, though I’d put Wade over her. With that said, it will come down to Peter vs Tomi in the end either way, and in a straight fight, it’s a close battle. The deciding factor here for me is the unpopulated city setting, which gives Parker a massive manueverability edge that can let him get the one up on Tomi.

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#20 Edited by blackspidey2099 (6734 posts) - - Show Bio

@phoenixdiamond616 said:
@blackspidey2099 said:

Does anyone have any reasons why Gorgon could beat Peter?

he is by far faster and much more skilled...

Definitely more skilled, but what feats does he have to suggest being quicker than Spider-Man? All I saw was a couple bullet deflection type feats.

Here's a comparison of a few of Gorgon's feats vs Peter:

Bullet Timing:

Nick Fury shoots 3 pistol bullets and Gorgon bullet times by slicing them out of the air.

Spider-Man bullet times by dodging machine gun bullets and sniper rifle bullets after they are fired.

Spider-Man's is more impressive since machine guns/snipers shoot quicker than pistols and because Peter moves further (his whole body rather than just his hand) in a shorter period of time (ie. greater speed).

Tagging Fast Characters:

Gorgon tags Yo-Yo (speedster) while she is running.

Peter tags Speed Demon while he is running.

I'm no expert on how quick Yo-Yo is, but I'd bet Speed Demon is quicker. In which case, Peter's feat is better.

Character Statements:

Wolverine thinks Gorgon is fast.

A brainwashed Spider-Man moves so quickly Daredevil can barely keep track of him, and punches so quickly that Daredevil couldn't avoid a punch even though he knew Spider-Man was planning to punch him.

Daredevil is quicker than Wolverine, so Peter's feat is better again.

Conclusion:

Peter won all three of the feat comparisons, so I think he's quicker. I will concede that I am not a Gorgon expert though, so if you have any other feats for Gorgon, please let me know.

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#21 Posted by God_Spawn (43161 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099: To be fair to Gorgon, in his first run in Enemy of the State, he was capable of dodging through machine gun fire from Elektra while simultaneously cutting down a bunch of SHIELD agents. Scans 1-2.

3-4: Later in the series, him and Elektra were having a psychic conversation and the world was slow around them. In that span of time, while telepathically conversing with Elektra, Tomi did deflect a bunch of machine gun bullets from a group of SHIELD agents.

And with the scan of Wolverine saying he was fast, that means he was fast and stealthy enough to avoid Wolverine's senses and ram a sword in him from behind, which itself is a feat in of itself.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

So with Parker dodging machine gun fire and sniper fire, Gorgon has feats of deflecting, dodging and weaving through machine gun bullets while shredding up agents of SHIELD. He did manage to cut Yo-Yo's hand off, and she's still classified as a speedster. Speed Demon was taken out by Wolverine with his skill and own speed, and by Spider-Man's own admission, Wolverine is fast, and this is also backed up by Kaine's mentioning of it and Peter commenting on Daken being fast like his father. I know Logan isn't as fast as Spider-Man, but to be able to stealth burst Wolverine like that is incredible. So the comparison with Daredevil I'm not going to say is so cut and dry, with Matt having more precise reflexes and agility than Logan, but Wolverine is still incredibly fast in terms of combat speed.

With that said, also comparatively, while having a bit of trouble in the beginning and being amped by Stark tech, Shang-Chi was capable of holding off Gorgon. When Gorgon got serious in the end, he absolutely decimated Shang-Chi. Shang himself has dodged bullets after they have been fired and was capable of keeping up with Spider-Man when he Parker came to him to help him train and he used his magnetic boots. Shang has also been capable of tagging and reacting to Wolverine, albeit when Logan was less skilled than he is now.

Parker's session with Shang.

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Tomi blitzing and wrecking Shang.

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And I apologize for not having the last scans on hand, but Spider-Man and Gorgon did have a fight in a not so far off issue of Agents of Shield where Parker called for help against him, and what ended up downing him was a hit from Chulk and a blast from Carol Danvers.

He also had a recent outing that wasn't really up to snuff for his character, but he was fighting the second Silver Samurai, the high tech one with some Iron Man lite armor.

With all this said and Gorgon in a nutshell if he isn't jobbing, is more skilled than Wolverine, by Logan's own admission and saying there is no point in trying to match it. He's fast enough to blitz Wolverine, completely wreck a bunch of shield agents, take out Elektra and pin Wolverine to a wall with a sword after beating on him and Elektra with a piece of wood after they RPG'd his room and teleported in his room and stabbed him. He speed burst attacked a classified speedster, skilled enough to hold back and still fight Iron Fist on even footing, possibly getting the slight better of him with a pair of claws that aren't his main weapon. He is dangerous enough that Spider-Man called for against him and it was two certified powerhouses that blasted him down. Now he does have a few low showings like getting KO'd by a surprise from Daredevil when he was fighting Iron Fist, and Phobos gave him trouble, but Hickman has a weird thing about writing him, and that was also the writer of his fight with Shang-Chi.

TL;DR, he's super fast, super skilled, has a healing factor, pretty durable, utilizes a sword which if it hits, will be devastating, and has telepathy to read opponents (though he doesn't use that often) and has the stone stare to back it up. He has the feats to beat Spider-Man, though it won't be easy either way.

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#22 Posted by Morpheus_ (34487 posts) - - Show Bio

If Tomi is at his peak he's above Spider-Man in virtually every way barring raw strength and durability to blunt force. The problem is that he's seldom been as good post-Enemy of the State unless Hickman's writing.

Then again, prior to the recent OML showings Gorgon's low-end feats included having the edge over post-IIF Iron Fist, so as I keep repeating in threads, the bar is set so exceptionally high for him that whenever any opponent gives him a fight the forum erupts. Which is not the case for other established characters; Logan has numerous low-end feats, as does Spidey and recently Iron Fist nearly died against Elektra and was stalemated if not outfought by Shang-Chi with little to no repercussions to his reputation.

Gorgon is treated a little unfairly, IMO.

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#23 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: Tomi getting two shotted by Scarlet Samurai was pretty funny.

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#24 Posted by God_Spawn (43161 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_:

Gorgon is treated a little unfairly, IMO.

Agreed, but I think Millar created such a gem of a character that Marvel really screwed the pooch over him and doesn't really know what to do with him. He's so damn smart, skilled, powerful, and has a hax ability that he is just straight deadly. I think it does suck his decay has happened the way it has, but he's not so complicated in abilities that he shouldn't be written the way he is as of late. It's not like the character is that old either. He came out in what? 2005? With him dying in EoS, he could have stayed a top contender for awhile. He should still be one.

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#25 Posted by Morpheus_ (34487 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Hickman bestowing him with a blade capable of killing gods probably didn't simplify matters as far as his esoteric abilities go.

Gorgon is not very different from any other character: he needs a writer that likes him in order to thrive, much like he did under Hickman. As long as he's treated as goon of the month like in his OML appearances, his reputation will be tarnished. I'll call it Black Tarantula syndrome.

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#26 Posted by GothamCiti (2890 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#27 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2925 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

Spidey could solo, I've never really understood the hype for Gorgon.

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#29 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6734 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:

To be fair to Gorgon, in his first run in Enemy of the State, he was capable of dodging through machine gun fire from Elektra while simultaneously cutting down a bunch of SHIELD agents. Scans 1-2.

I wouldn't exactly call those 2 scans bullet timing since it isn't shown whether Gorgon dodges after they were fired. I feel like deflecting bullets by making a shield while spinning your sword really fast isn't as impressive as actually hitting them out of the air, so IDK if this even counts as bullet timing.

3-4: Later in the series, him and Elektra were having a psychic conversation and the world was slow around them. In that span of time, while telepathically conversing with Elektra, Tomi did deflect a bunch of machine gun bullets from a group of SHIELD agents.

This is definitely bullet timing since we see the agents fire and then see Tomi deflect the bullets. But I still don't think deflecting bullets by twirling his sword around is more impressive than moving out of the way of machine gun bullets after they are fired since it doesn't require any precision. If he cut each bullet out of the air individually, I might be inclined to agree.

And with the scan of Wolverine saying he was fast, that means he was fast and stealthy enough to avoid Wolverine's senses and ram a sword in him from behind, which itself is a feat in of itself.

This makes me think it's less impressive actually. It seems more like a stealth feat of being able to sneak up on Wolverine, not a speed feat. Since he doesn't even battle with Wolverine, there's nothing that Gorgon is doing beyond the single movement of stabbing Wolverine.

Speed Demon was taken out by Wolverine with his skill and own speed

Scans please? Is that a consistent level of speed for Wolverine?

When Gorgon got serious in the end, he absolutely decimated Shang-Chi.

That's a good feat, but I'm not sure whether it is a skill feat or a speed feat for Gorgon. I'd be mor einclined to argue the former, TBH.

was capable of keeping up with Spider-Man when he Parker came to him to help him train and he used his magnetic boots.

I mean, Spider-Man clearly wasn't going full speed since he was more trying to learn from Shang Chi than actually fight him. If he was using all his physicals, he would have knocked Shang's head off.

And I apologize for not having the last scans on hand, but Spider-Man and Gorgon did have a fight in a not so far off issue of Agents of Shield where Parker called for help against him, and what ended up downing him was a hit from Chulk and a blast from Carol Danvers.

I've read that issue and that was a PIS encounter. Peter was actually wearing his armor in that story (the same armor which is so durable that Peter was barely hurt from a bloodlusted punch from a guy who can trash vibranium and which can lobotomize anyone who touches it) so he should have had no problem with Gorgon. Heck, even in that story he was able to use his upgraded webs to trap one of the Iron Man replica armors. That should be enough to trap Gorgon.

He's fast enough to blitz Wolverine

I wouldn't exactly call that feat blitzing Wolverine anymore considering it was just the one attack.

Overall, I agree that Gorgon is pretty formidable, but I think Spider-Man holds an edge in terms of speed. I didn't know that Gorgon had a healing factor though, that would probably be a huge advantage for him in this fight. I now agree that it would be a really close fight, thanks for giving me more of the details. Gorgon's main advantage is that he can possibly one-shot Spider-Man with his sword, while I'm no longer sure if Peter can do the same due to Gorgon's healing factor. There's also the fact that Gorgon's superior skill will help him compensate for the gap in speed (which I still believe exists) and strength. I still think Peter would win, but it's a lot more difficult than I thought.

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#30 Posted by spideyandslendy (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#31 Posted by Owie (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

If Tomi is at his peak he's above Spider-Man in virtually every way barring raw strength and durability to blunt force. The problem is that he's seldom been as good post-Enemy of the State unless Hickman's writing.

Then again, prior to the recent OML showings Gorgon's low-end feats included having the edge over post-IIF Iron Fist, so as I keep repeating in threads, the bar is set so exceptionally high for him that whenever any opponent gives him a fight the forum erupts. Which is not the case for other established characters; Logan has numerous low-end feats, as does Spidey and recently Iron Fist nearly died against Elektra and was stalemated if not outfought by Shang-Chi with little to no repercussions to his reputation.

Gorgon is treated a little unfairly, IMO.

This is a really interesting point--the question of why certain characters' reputations lose a lot when they lose a fight, while others can lose a fight without losing reputation. For certain characters, a stain just seems to stick to them more.

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#32 Posted by Owie (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

Focusing on the actual battle, while Spidey and Gorgon are the two main contenders here, I wouldn't say it's just the two of them that matter. Using a bit of ABC, both Elektra and Deadpool have been good competitors against Wolverine, who has fought relatively evenly against Spidey. (But on the other hand, both Wolverine and Elektra together had a challenge against Gorgon.) Point being that while Elektra/Deadpool are secondary, they're still well within the fight, and capable of affecting the outcome.

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#33 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadpool is gonna beat Elektra.

Spidey and Gorgon are gonna have a close fight, with Spidey taking an edge based on consistency.

But Deadpool teaming with Spidey equals a definite win against Gorgon.

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#34 Posted by AllProgress (37 posts) - - Show Bio

Elektra could High Difficulty solo these two. But Gorgon just simply destroys on his own