DCEU Zod vs. CW Non

@rbt: Still biased

Zod mostly because Non sucks.

zod.

CW wank is so sad.

Honestly i agree. Astra was much more powerful than her husband. Kara actually killed Non by heatvision ( ok it is another proof how OP is Kara in CW series, but this way is much stupidier than neck twisting ) so i agree

@spiderfan130666: Nah. Zod still gets stomped.

@sexybayonetta22: OK.

Zod

@sexybayonetta22: Non dying from heat vision to the face is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen on the CW (which is saying something). At worst it should have made him temporarily blind, but no it flat out kills him.

Yes that was dumb. Ok it has shown also Kara's might but i expected to punch Non to the moon or somewhere in space. Yeah even if Zod had inferior strenght he still is too fast, too skilled etc.

@sexybayonetta22: I agree.

Zod shitstomps

@mister_surreal: Non is still alive...

In Arrowverse ? He will return ?

@sexybayonetta22: Don't know about him returning, but Non didn't die from the heat vision. It looked like he was lobotomized by the heat vision.

Maybe

@rbt: How do you know? All we saw was him getting burnt and them collapsing. I think we can assume that he is dead.

dceu vs cw

i like dceu more they wins / thread

@rbt: CW Zod, maybe

DCEU Zod murders.

He was moving after collapsing.

Nah. Non still stomps DCEU Zod.

@rbt: You have shown no evidence that Non wins.

He's canonically superior to CW Kara in stats. This will basically turn into Kara vs Zod thread, where Kara stomps.

@rbt: You mean season 1 Kara who was inefiror to MOS Superman and actually killed Non by using heat vision? Yeah, he totally wins...General Zod can either blitz him or just use his heat vision once and have him squirming.

There isn't much difference between EoS1 Kara and current Kara. Her best strength feat is from S1. One of her best durability feats is from S1. Not that it matters much. Barring first few episodes, where Kara was still getting the hang of her powers, she hasn't been getting stronger.

And no, MoS Superman does not even begin to compare to Kara. Even if we limit her to S1 feats. Which I see no reason to. Kara hasn't been amped between seasons.

@rbt: OK, could you explicitly explain what durability, striking feats and combat speed that Non or Kara have that would make them better than Superman and Zod? Also, could you not dodge the question and tell me why General Zod couldn’t one shot with heat vision?

Well, for one, I still don't understand why we are limiting Kara to her S1 feats. She didn't get stronger between S1 finale and today. All of her feats should be applicable.

Anyhow, S1 Kara kept up with tachyon enhanced S2 Barry. She was not only able to match Barry's speed but could actually perceive him and grab him when he was running faster than Zoom.

Lifting the Fort Rozz and pushing it at hypersonic speed is ridiculously beyond the strength level of Zod and Superman combined. As for durability, Kara took a 2000ppsi explosion to her face. For comparison, nukes max out a 100-150ppsi. And obviously, Kryptonians could hurt each other with their hits, so their durability feat also makes way for their striking power.

Also, could you not dodge the question and tell me why General Zod couldn’t one shot with heat vision?

I'm not dodging. Zod has done nothing to imply he can overpower Non's heat vision and lobotomize him as Kara did. CW Kryptonian's heat vision>>DCEU heat vision.

@rbt: You’re talking about strength feats, not striking feats which CW kryptonians are extremely lacking in. Bunt force trauma in the form of punches is not the equivalent of explosive damage. I have yet to see them do anything that says they can take down General Zod when he can tank morals off punches from Superman.

As for speed feats, people with no superhuman speed have been able to react to Thawne before and he wasn’t exactly going at full speed in that scene, so Kara reacting to him isn’t a consistent feat that we can use. CW speedsters are notorious for getting tagged by slower opponents.

Even if we were to use each instance of Supergirl chasing The Flash, that is a feat of travel sped and not combat speed. With combat speed, General Zod could blitz both of them. General Zod is just too fast and agile to get taken out here.

For heat vision, what feats does season 1 Kara have for melting objects that is better than feats like melting steel girders?

@mister_surreal:

You’re talking about strength feats, not striking feats which CW kryptonians are extremely lacking in. Bunt force trauma in the form of punches is not the equivalent of explosive damage. I have yet to see them do anything that says they can take down General Zod when he can tank morals off punches from Superman.

Hurting other Kryptonians with their hits is a striking feat. And yes, blunt force trauma most definitely is equivalent to overpressure. That's what I gave you. The number of 2000ppsi is overpressure. It's exactly the same as blunt force trauma.

Here's the link if you want to go into detail-

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docket/archive/pdfs/NIOSH-125/125-ExplosionsandRefugeChambers.pdf

According to that link, 20ppsi is enough to demolish heavily built concrete skyscrapers. Kara took 2000ppsi to her face.

As for speed feats, people with no superhuman speed have been able to react to Thawne before and he wasn’t exactly going at full speed in that scene, so Kara reacting to him isn’t a consistent feat that we can use. CW speedsters are notorious for getting tagged by slower opponents.

I didn't even bring the Thawne feat. I am bringing up a feat from S1 where Kara kept up with Barry and could perceive and grab him while he was running faster than Zoom. Where did Thawne come from?

Even if we were to use each instance of Supergirl chasing The Flash, that is a feat of travel sped and not combat speed. With combat speed, General Zod could blitz both of them. General Zod is just too fast and agile to get taken out here.

When you can perceive a speedster running at their top speed, can grab them, and toss them, that becomes a combat speed feat.

For heat vision, what feats does season 1 Kara have for melting objects that is better than feats like melting steel girders?

Vaporizing Red Tornado. I'm just gonna ignore this baseless season 1 stipulation from now on. It makes absolutely zero sense from a story point of view. Kara did not get stronger between the S1 finale and the current day.

Non still wins.

@rbt: Superman and General Zod were casually demolishing buildings and concrete in their fight when they were throwing each other across the city. There is also the fact that Superman was able to tank destroying the top of a mountain after practicing flying and yet he still felt Zod’s punches. I’m pretty sure that General Zod is durable enough to take Non’s punches and can dish out his own.

My mistake about the thinking that you were referring Thawne. I don’t remember her she tagging Barry, but even if she did you would need to show that in order to see how fast they were even moving, I seriously doubt that he was going anywhere as fast as he normally can. But even so, The Flash’s speed is not consistent. Zoom was actually able to catch up to season 5 Barry.

And what heat/energy resistance feats does Red Tornado have that makes vaporizing him impressive?

@mister_surreal:

Superman and General Zod were casually demolishing buildings and concrete in their fight when they were throwing each other across the city. There is also the fact that Superman was a so to tank destroying the top of a mountain after practiting flying. I’m pretty sure that General Zod is durable enough to take Non’s punches.

Only that's nowhere close to CW Kryptonian level. No matter how you look at it. If you limit Superman's feats to MoS and Kara's feats to S1, she comes on top. If all feats are allowed, she comes on top.

My mistake about the thinking that you were referring Thawne. I don’t remember her she tagging Barry, but even if she did you would need to show that in order to see how fast they were even moving. he wasn’t going anywhere as fast as he normally can. But even so, The Flash’s speed is not consistent. Zoom was actually able to catch up to season 5 Barry.

Barry most definitely was running at top speed considering he was trying to open a breach back to Earth 1 and the moment he breached back and reached star labs, Cisco basically told him that he ran 4 times faster than he ever had.

And what heat/energy resistance feats does Red Tornado have that makes vaporizing him impressive?

None, but forget about this feat.

Kara was able to disintegrate several thousand tons of metals and rock and dust in a few seconds with her heat vision while she was extremely weakened. To the point, she could barely even stand up. When she beat Non, she was at her full power.

Now, what has Zod done that comes even close to what Kara did when she was extremely weakened, let alone what she did when she was at 100%?

@rbt: OK, then what striking and durability feats does Kara have that are better?

I’m not talking about them opening the breach, I was referring to combat. Not that it matters since Barry is still incredibly inconsistent.

Fair point.

@mister_surreal:

OK, then what striking and durability feats does Kara have that are better?

I just said. The 2000ppsi thing. A country-level explosion. And explosions that were shaking a city just by their shockwaves. That's how durable CW Kryptonians are.

As for striking, Kara knocked Clark out with her punches, who might just be superior to her physically, so even more durable than her. But even if not, knocking out someone who can take so much damage is very impressive.

I’m not talking about them opening the breach, I was referring to combat. Not that it matters since Barry is still incredibly inconsistent.

That feat is definitely applicable for combat. And whether Barry is inconsistent or not does not really matter because we have got a direct statement from Cisco that Barry was running 4 times faster than he ever had when Kara grabbed him and tossed him away.

@rbt: OK, I’m going have agree to disagree to this since I’m fairly tired and I don’t see us conving the other any time soon. But thanks for keeping this discussion civil.

No worries.

Zod.

Astra would be much better

the only fight zod ever won

@rbt:

just said. The 2000ppsi thing.

Was not nearly as powerful as a punch nor was she remotely within the radius

A country-level explosion.

Not country level and not applicable either. It was a blast comprised of YELLOW Solar radiation.

We've been over this dozens of times

And explosions that were shaking a city just by their shockwaves.

None of those

That's how durable CW Kryptonians are.

That's still nowhere near as durable as DCEU

As for striking, Kara knocked Clark out with her punches, who might just be superior to her physically, so even more durable than her. But even if not, knocking out someone who can take so much damage is very impressive.

I'm sorry but they're punches did very little damage in comparison.

I’m not talking about them opening the breach, I was referring to combat. Not that it matters since Barry is still incredibly inconsistent.

That feat is definitely applicable for combat. And whether Barry is inconsistent or not does not really matter because we have got a direct statement from Cisco that Barry was running 4 times faster than he ever had when Kara grabbed him and tossed him away.

You mean when she clotheslined Thawne? That's like one time. Extreme outlier. Especially since he wasn't just fighting her and it seemed like he was targeting Barry instead.

Let's examine the fights of CW Kryptonians

So yeah, Superman and a Daxamite crash into CatCo and all they break is that stupid plastic Panther and a few windows.

Supergirl and Reign crash into a building and cause a little more damage, but nothing that compromises the building's structure. Then, they drop into a ship, without sinking it, fly back into the city and flip a single car. That's the extent of their damage.

Now let's look at this:

For the record their first clash, and by that I mean them colliding with each other, was more destructive than the combined battles shown above.

From the same moment in BVS...

Superman was thrown into THREE separate buildings.

Then there's this

LOL, that guy at 6.72 just throws his present into the air. Nothing happens to him.

Aside from a wrecked a car and some very crude asphalt being displaced, there is no damage.

Now there's this:

I'll ignore the building since that was primarily the result of Zod's heat-vision.

Superman is thrown at odd angle and instead of planting directly into the pavement, he smashes at least three vehicles and demolishes a parking garage.

Now compare and contrast this:

..with this:

Based on what you see and that alone, tell me who is hitting harder.

As for combat speed, try this:

Each strike is at supersonic or hypersonic speed

And here they go even faster:

Going from the skyline to low orbit in a matter of seconds.

And then going back in at reentry speed.

Seems to me that there is no contest.

@spiderfan130666: Nah. Non still stomps.

About fight with Reign: i actually don't know about creating shockwaves, sometimes it can really from air concentration/density. Reign actually was mystically amped by standing on the ground as brainiac and Mon-El analised it. Kara was also able to kick Bizarro with such speed as Zod or Superman. Martian has feats like punching Kara mode Music Meister from stratosphere to ground in less than second ( but probably switched off Kara mode because impact wasn't strong and Wally West could knock him out ). Martian could normally in several seconds fly across the country USA ( practically 3000-4000 km distance ) to grab Kryptonite poisoned Kara. Idk. I would say by scalings stalemate. But by visuals Zod wins.

Astra or even CW Superman would be much better

@davidharewood14:

i actually don't know about creating shockwaves, sometimes it can really from air concentration/density

Nah mate. That's got no bearing on it.

Reign actually was mystically amped by standing on the ground as brainiac and Mon-El analised it.

And so what? Your hypothesis is that she was affecting the atmosphere? How do you explain all the other battles.

Kara was also able to kick Bizarro with such speed as Zod or Superman.

Kicking is different from punching and it still did not generate the same kind of force

Martian has feats like punching Kara mode Music Meister from stratosphere to ground in less than second

Pretty sure that was the troposphere, also, looked terribly cut together.

Martian could normally in several seconds fly across the country USA ( practically 3000-4000 km distance ) to grab Kryptonite poisoned Kara.

Superman and Zod travelled maybe ten times that distance in the same amount of time when they went into outer-space and destroyed the Wayne Enterprise satellite. Satellites in geostationary orbit are 35,786 km (22,236 mi) from the sea level. Even satellites in low orbit are 20,000 km.

Plus you are using travel speed. Not a good comparison since we were using combat speed.

@rbt:

Nah. Non still stomps.

If that's your final answer then it's pointless arguing with you.

You are too biased.

@spiderfan130666: They both were moving in the same direction in straight line. They just were speed boosted to that speed.

Yes it wasn't greatly made scene but J'onn still punched pissed of Kara making greater hole in the ground than Superman and Zod.

@spiderfan130666: Now that you've come to that conclusion, maybe you'll stop tagging me? I have zero interest in debating you in any thread, in case you still can't tell.

@davidharewood14:

Yes it wasn't greatly made scene but J'onn still punched pissed of Kara making greater hole in the ground than Superman and Zod.

LOL, no he didn't. Not even close.

@rbt:

Now that you've come to that conclusion, maybe you'll stop tagging me? I have zero interest in debating you in any thread, in case you still can't tell.

Consider this my last tag. In this thread.

Non wins

Non kneels.

Non stomps. end of story.

arrowverse kryptonians are leagues higher than DCEU kryptonians

she didn't get much more powerful throughout the show, so feats from latter seasons apply. also, i don't think she was weakened by the black mercy. (at least not physically) in fact, she was so angry at him, that she wasn't holding back. meaning she was more powerful than normal. he absolutely scales to DCEU Zod.